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View Full Version : Nar Demonbinder cannot into better spell list



Flickerdart
2014-08-05, 02:16 PM
It turns out that blackguard is actually a pretty good deal - there aren't many ways of getting full BAB and 4th level spells by level 11, but you can manage it by trading in 10 levels of paladin. The spell list is not great, but having summon monster is enough to get you into Nar Demonbinder and begin a new, better spell progression. The flavour is awesome, too - a paladin sacrifices his purity to gain power over fiends and angels alike, possibly betraying his blackguard initiation patron in the process.

There's just one problem with this - the Nar Demonbinder only goes up to 8th level spells, and its list kind of sucks. He's got the Planar Binding like, Summon Monster, and a couple of other nice tricks, but only a handful of spells per level. And while it's super easy to gain extra spells as a divine caster, arcanists seem to be kind of shafted in this regard.

Malconvoker seems like a decent way to go, too (the Nar Demonbinder's class features kind of suck) - Paladin 1/Blackguard 10/Nar Demonbinder 1/Malconvoker 8 gives you a Planar Binding cap of 20HD, though you don't get the Nar Demonbinder's cool planar binding related abilities.

Any thoughts on improving this combination - ideally with some ways to add spells to the Nar Demonbinder's list?

Snowbluff
2014-08-05, 02:27 PM
For starts, I'd suggest Illumian so you can still focus Str to cover extra spell slots.

Adding spells... Versatile Spellcaster + Cleric/DN/Beguiler?

Arcane Disciple... which will add Wis to any of your MADness.

Piggy Knowles
2014-08-05, 02:29 PM
PhaedrusXY had a fun build many, many years ago that was Ex-Paladin 1/Blackguard 10/NDB 1/Eldritch Knight 8, IIRC. This was before Complete Mage and Abjurant Champion came out, of course, or else I'm sure he'd have used that instead.

The Bloodline feats from Dragon Compendium are an easy way to expand a spell list. I have a demonic fey-themed build kicking around somewhere that is Duskblade 13/NDB 2/Abjurant Champion 5 that gets +19 BAB, full attack channeling and 8th-level spells (9th with Versatile shenanigans), and gets Irresistible Dance thanks to Fey Bloodline. I'm on my phone or I'd link to it directly, but a search for "Merry Gishmas" should turn it up.

Darrin
2014-08-05, 02:56 PM
Start with a Sylph (MM2). Add Something 4 (Factotum? Duskblade?), then Nar Demonbinder 7. Casts as a Sorcerer 18, plus Nar Demonbinder 7.

Snowbluff
2014-08-05, 03:04 PM
Start with a Sylph (MM2). Add Something 4 (Factotum? Duskblade?), then Nar Demonbinder 7. Casts as a Sorcerer 18, plus Nar Demonbinder 7.
Are those a playable race?

EDIT: Found it. LA 5

Rebel7284
2014-08-05, 03:05 PM
Eldrich Master
Here is my thread on the subject.

http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?323862-Brainstorming-Eldrich-Master

Miss Disaster
2014-08-05, 04:16 PM
Ex-Paladin 1
Blackguard 10
Crusader 1
---------
Nar Demonbinder 1
Sandshaper 2
Human Paragon 3
Spellsword 1
Dragonslayer 1


******

This build gives you BAB +17 and full spellcaster progression in both Blackguard (4th Level Divine Spells) and Nar Demonbinder (8th Level Arcane Spells). You can mix up the level progression however you want and however it eases entry into the various PrCs. Especially with the Crusader level so as to get higher level maneuvers.

The Sandshaper PrC gives your Nar Demonbinder spell list an extra 43 or so spells. There's relatively little strain on your feat prerequisites. Be sure to pick up Otyugh Hole for cheap access to Iron Will (which you need for both ND and Dragonslayer). Practiced Spellcaster on both your Blackguard and ND sides is a good idea if you can manage it.

If you want even more spells added to your ND list, look into the Necrotic Cyst feat. Which, flavor-wise, fits in well with the Blackguard Demonbinder theme.

Grim Reader
2014-08-05, 09:01 PM
Sand Shaper + Versatile Spellcaster + Heighten Spell can give you 9th level spells if your DM allows. The "Prepared Caster" issue can be tricky with some. Then you can expand your list from there.

Snowbluff
2014-08-05, 09:11 PM
Alacritous Cogitation?