Zinc Saucier XXVII: Build This!

[dysprosium]

Welcome one and all to the twenty seventh Zinc Saucier challenge, where Playgrounders come to test their skill in the art of beautiful and bizarre (and bizarrely beautiful) builds, summoning a savory dish of superb swordplay and sublime sorcery.

The challenge? To come up with a build that has the same abilities and feel as the Secret Ingredient WITHOUT actually using it!

For the twenty seventh challenge, we are going to build this one from scratch; from the Eberron Campaign Setting it's the Artificer

Our challengers will have about 2 weeks to build a complete build up to Effective Character Level 20 using a 32 point buy and all official WOTC D&D 3.5 materials (excluding Dragon Magazine, but including any WOTC online enhancements) with the abilities and feel of an Artificer without actually using any levels in it.

Entries must be submitted by Thursday, 11:59pm GMT, 21 August, 2014. As usual, please submit your entries via private message to the chairman, so as not to influence the other sauciers.

Judges will then have until Monday, 11:59pm GMT, 1 September, 2014, to post scores for all dishes.

Contestants will be judged and awarded a score out of 5 in each of 4 categories;

* Innovation (Uniqueness in character concept, race, class, etc)
* Power (How powerful and versatile it is compared to the base class)
* Elegance (What can only be described as how well the build "flows", i.e not using lots of 1-2lv dips, sacrificing flavour for power or using flaws)
* Ingredient (How well the build captures the abilities and feel of the base class)

Presentation would be best in the style of how the iron chef does their presentations, however any style is allowed so long as it is clear on how the build was made.

Recommended style:NAME OF ENTRY


Level
Class
Base Attack Bonus
Fort Save
Ref Save
Will Save
Skills
Feats
Class Features


1st
New Class Level
+x
+x
+x
+x
Skills
Feats
New Class Abilities


2nd
New Class Level
+x
+x
+x
+x
Skills
Feats
New Class Abilities


3rd
New Class Level
+x
+x
+x
+x
Skills
Feats
New Class Abilities


4th
New Class Level
+x
+x
+x
+x
Skills
Feats
New Class Abilities


5th
New Class Level
+x
+x
+x
+x
Skills
Feats
New Class Abilities


6th
New Class Level
+x
+x
+x
+x
Skills
Feats
New Class Abilities


7th
New Class Level
+x
+x
+x
+x
Skills
Feats
New Class Abilities


8th
New Class Level
+x
+x
+x
+x
Skills
Feats
New Class Abilities


9th
New Class Level
+x
+x
+x
+x
Skills
Feats
New Class Abilities


10th
New Class Level
+x
+x
+x
+x
Skills
Feats
New Class Abilities


11th
New Class Level
+x
+x
+x
+x
Skills
Feats
New Class Abilities


12th
New Class Level
+x
+x
+x
+x
Skills
Feats
New Class Abilities


13th
New Class Level
+x
+x
+x
+x
Skills
Feats
New Class Abilities


14th
New Class Level
+x
+x
+x
+x
Skills
Feats
New Class Abilities


15th
New Class Level
+x
+x
+x
+x
Skills
Feats
New Class Abilities


16th
New Class Level
+x
+x
+x
+x
Skills
Feats
New Class Abilities


17th
New Class Level
+x
+x
+x
+x
Skills
Feats
New Class Abilities


18th
New Class Level
+x
+x
+x
+x
Skills
Feats
New Class Abilities


19th
New Class Level
+x
+x
+x
+x
Skills
Feats
New Class Abilities


20th
New Class Level
+x
+x
+x
+x
Skills
Feats
New Class Abilities



Code immediately below (spoiler).

Level
Class
Base Attack Bonus
Fort Save
Ref Save
Will Save
Skills
Feats
Class Features


1st
New Class Level
+x
+x
+x
+x
Skills
Feats
New Class Abilities


2nd
New Class Level
+x
+x
+x
+x
Skills
Feats
New Class Abilities


3rd
New Class Level
+x
+x
+x
+x
Skills
Feats
New Class Abilities


4th
New Class Level
+x
+x
+x
+x
Skills
Feats
New Class Abilities


5th
New Class Level
+x
+x
+x
+x
Skills
Feats
New Class Abilities


6th
New Class Level
+x
+x
+x
+x
Skills
Feats
New Class Abilities


7th
New Class Level
+x
+x
+x
+x
Skills
Feats
New Class Abilities


8th
New Class Level
+x
+x
+x
+x
Skills
Feats
New Class Abilities


9th
New Class Level
+x
+x
+x
+x
Skills
Feats
New Class Abilities


10th
New Class Level
+x
+x
+x
+x
Skills
Feats
New Class Abilities


11th
New Class Level
+x
+x
+x
+x
Skills
Feats
New Class Abilities


12th
New Class Level
+x
+x
+x
+x
Skills
Feats
New Class Abilities


13th
New Class Level
+x
+x
+x
+x
Skills
Feats
New Class Abilities


14th
New Class Level
+x
+x
+x
+x
Skills
Feats
New Class Abilities


15th
New Class Level
+x
+x
+x
+x
Skills
Feats
New Class Abilities


16th
New Class Level
+x
+x
+x
+x
Skills
Feats
New Class Abilities


17th
New Class Level
+x
+x
+x
+x
Skills
Feats
New Class Abilities


18th
New Class Level
+x
+x
+x
+x
Skills
Feats
New Class Abilities


19th
New Class Level
+x
+x
+x
+x
Skills
Feats
New Class Abilities


20th
New Class Level
+x
+x
+x
+x
Skills
Feats
New Class Abilities


For entries with spellcasting, use the following table for Spells per day and Spells Known. (Spells Known only if necessary, i.e. Sorcerer or Bard, but not Wizard or Warmage)Spells per Day/Spells Known


Level
0lvl
1st
2nd
3rd
4th
5th
6th
7th
8th
9th


1st
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-


2nd
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-


3rd
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-


4th
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-


5th
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-


6th
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-


7th
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-


8th
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-


9th
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-


10th
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-


11th
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-


12th
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-


13th
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-


14th
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-


15th
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-


16th
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-


17th
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-


18th
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-


19th
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-


20th
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-


Code immediately below (spoiler)Spells per Day/Spells Known


Level
0lvl
1st
2nd
3rd
4th
5th
6th
7th
8th
9th


1st
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-


2nd
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-


3rd
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-


4th
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-


5th
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-


6th
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-


7th
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-


8th
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-


9th
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-


10th
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-


11th
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-


12th
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-


13th
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-


14th
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-


15th
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-


16th
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-


17th
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-


18th
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-


19th
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-


20th
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-



Please do not post details of your build on the board before it is ready, so as not to spoil the surprise for others.

Sauciers may submit as many builds as they want but please don't use Leadership, as we don't want to overfeed the judges.

Previous challenges;
Soulknife (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=225187)
Bard (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=229736)
Monk (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=233749)
Assassin (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=239294)
Barbarian (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=243627)
Warlock (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=247169)
Paladin * (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=252932)
Warblade (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=256004)
Pyrokineticist (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=259654)
Ninja * (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=263278)
Druid (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=265347)
True Necromancer (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=276267)
Dervish (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=280212)
Whisperknife (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=285337)
Epic Infiltrator * (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=289233)
Master of Vipers (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=295287)
Ranger * (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=298478)
Flayerspawn Psychic (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=16076729#post16076729)
Totemist (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=16448992#post16448992)
Walker in the Waste (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=322436)
Drunken Master (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=16879574#post16879574)
Cleric (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=333648)
Duskblade (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=339182)
Psibond Agent (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=346900)
Argent Fist (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=353923)
Fighter (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=360816)


* Classes marked with an asterisk have had their original posts updated to reflect the final results.

This competition is inspired by the Playground Iron Chef Competitions and uses mostly identical rules.

Also it comes with double prize money. Why? Because we care!

Allez Sauciers!

[dysprosium]

A few administrative notes:

Competitors will be free to use any official 3.5 rulebook in constructing their builds. Dragon magazine is disallowed, and Unearthed Arcana is allowed; but see Elegance below. Web-exclusive 3.0 or 3.5 materials by WotC are expressly allowed, but take care to verify that an updated version did not appear in print elsewhere, as this may cause an Elegance deduction at the judges' discretion. Alternate rule systems from UA such as gestalt and generic classes are not allowed, as they create a different playing field. Also, item familiars are forbidden because I hate 'em.

Power level is up to you. Cheese is acceptable, but should be kept to a sane level unless you're showcasing a new TO build you've discovered. In the words of one of my predecessors, a little cheddar can be nice, but avoid the mature Gruyere unless you're making a cheese fondue.

Elegance could bear a little elaboration. It basically measures how skillfully you put your build together, and whether you sacrificed flavor for power. We're cooking here - if your dish doesn't taste good, it doesn't matter how well-presented it is. Use of flaws is an automatic loss of one point per flaw in this category. Other things that will cause lost points here are excessive multiclassing, and classes that don't fit the concept - using Cloistered Cleric in a front-line melee fighter, for example, may lose you points. Please note the following: a legal source's relative obscurity should not be considered as penalizing Elegance, excepting the aforementioned issues with Unearthed Arcana. Using too many sources may be an Elegance deduction at the judges' discretion, but a book's relative obscurity may not.

Concerning Experience Requirements: Each build is allotted exactly 200,000 EXP. This is roughly 10,000 EXP more than necessary to get to 20th level. Please take note of this when planning your character for circumstances like LA Buyoff, Item Crafting, Magic Use, Multiclassing EXP Penalties, etc. Please note that this is a change from past rounds that dysprosium has been the Chairman. Let's try this out (Thank you to Kazudo, who I lifted this from :smallsmile:)

Definition of Power for scoring: Since this has been a point of contention, let me lay down this guideline. Since the goal is to emulate the Secret Ingredient, achieving much higher power than the Secret Ingredient is capable of is overkill and should be marked accordingly. Likewise if the build cannot match the power of the Secret Ingredient it should be marked accordingly. Individual judges can decide how much is too much for Power scoring, as each judge will have different tastes. The goal here is to prevent all entries being Wizard 20 because "they do it better."

What's the minimum score in a category? Assuming an entry is legal, the minimum score in any category is 1. If a judge is convinced that an entry is illegal by the RAW, the judge may give a 0 or decline to score a given entry. Because this contest focuses on Player Characters, an entry that is not technically allowed for a PC, but is viable as an NPC, counts as a legal entry, but may receive a minimum score at the judges' discretion.

Is Dragon Compendium Allowed? Yes, but individual issues of Dragon Magazine are not.

What about 3.0 materials? 3.0 materials, whether online or in printed form, are allowed unless they've been officially updated to a 3.5 edition.

Are Dragonlance, Ravenloft, Planescape, Dark Sun, or Kingdoms of Kalamar allowable sources? The Dragonlance Campaign Setting is allowed, but the subsequent books for Dragonlance are considered 3rd party, and are therefore not eligible, despite the "WotC approved" status of those books. The same holds for Oriental Adventures (1st party) and the subsequent Rokugan books (3rd party). Materials from Ravenloft, Planescape, Dark Sun, and Kingdoms of Kalamar are considered 3rd party for purposes of this contest, and are therefore not allowed.

What about online sources in general? If the online source is a) published by WotC, and b) not replaced by an updated version at a later time, it is eligible. Use it, link it.

Where's the line drawn with "acceptable/unacceptable" for Unearthed Arcana? This will likely vary a bit from Chairman to Chairman. Variant class features and variant character classes are espressly permitted. Item Familiars and Gestalt have always been verboten; don't expect that to change. Flaws have similarly always been noted as warranting a deduction; while I am Chairman, I'm extending that to Traits, though they warrant 1/2 the penalty in Elegance that a Flaw would because they're roughly 1/2 as useful. Alternate spell systems, alternate skill systems and alternate crafting rules all create an uneven playing field, and as such, will be disallowed for as long as I am Chairman. Bloodlines are ripe for abuse, and will be discouraged as long as I am Chairman. Note that judges are allowed to look askance at any use of Unearthed Arcana not specifically mentioned above, at their discretion, and otherwise penalize Elegance according to their preference.

What, exactly, does the ban on Leadership mean? As folks have started to try to work around the edges of this one, I'm forced to spell it out more plainly. No Leadership, Draconic Cohort, or Feats that grant a similar ability are allowed EXCEPT Wild Cohort while I am chairman. Any PrC you choose with Leadership or a Leadership-analog has that ability entirely ignored for this contest, as it may neither be used nor traded away via any means whatsoever.

How the heck do I even do this? Your mission, should you choose to accept it, is to select a combination of race, templates, classes, alternate class features, prestige classes, skills, and feats, meld them into a single character that progresses from ECL 1 to ECL 20, that is as close as possible to the secret ingredient as possible in look, feel, class features. How you do it is up to you, I recommend you read previous competitions if you are interested in seeing how others have done it before you. Capture the essence!

A thread for your amusement/edification: Handy Tips for the Iron Chef in the Playground Noob (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=287603)

[WhamBamSam]

Ooh, I've been looking forward to this one. Will start working out the kinks as soon as I have time.

[Snowbluff]

... What? This has been a staple for a certain class for a long time. Every is going to have an identical entry...

Unless no one will. In which case I have the perfect entry.

[relytdan]

Artificer - well if I don't come up with a build I will judge.

[Svata]

Well, the obvious answer is redacted, obviously. I'm thinking maybe a whatver/lolnope/stuff. Maybe some something else to round it out and progress some stuff, but only if I really need to.

[AvatarVecna]

Well, the obvious answer is redacted, obviously. I'm thinking maybe a whatver/lolnope/stuff. Maybe some something else to round it out and progress some stuff, but only if I really need to.

You forgot the 2 lvl dip in mumble mumble to get the whatchamacallit class ability. What you'll lose in Elegance, you'll make up for in UoSI, since there's not a lot of ways to get that ability. Of course, that means now everyone'll be doing it. Oh well.

[Snowbluff]

You forgot the 2 lvl dip in mumble mumble to get the whatchamacallit class ability. What you'll lose in Elegance, you'll make up for in UoSI, since there's not a lot of ways to get that ability. Of course, that means now everyone'll be doing it. Oh well.
Just take 6 more levels and you'll rack up some power and fix the elegance problem.

Oh, and EVERYONE already knew about that. :smalltongue:

EDIT: I'll judge. It'll be heavily weighted on being creative.

[DeAnno]

I had an absolutely silly idea about this a while ago but it wouldn't really work for the competition. I might bring up the curiosity afterwards though.

[Cowardly Griffo]

I have no idea what I'm doing, so hopefully I'll at least provide an entertaining read. :smalltongue:

[Sian]

got an obvious idea, and two interesting ideas

[Chronos]

OK, I think I might have an idea other than the obvious one, but it'll need some fine-tuning.

[Vaz]

I have an idea for this. It's really obvious in my mind, but I think I'll stick with it.

[relytdan]

idea !

need to check on this idea see if it is worth cooking.

[DeAnno]

I don't plan on Judging this or competing, but some guidelines from the chair on how much detailed gear is appropriate might help on standardizing the entries a bit.

[relytdan]

As far as gear goes, I think several judges give penalties for reliance on items listed, and the artificer class is not so reliant on items as it just has several feats to allow creating them. so an option for WBL is to simply list what ever gear as Optional or the like.

[Snowbluff]

I give penalties on relying on item purchases.

[Chronos]

But in this contest, they presumably wouldn't be purchases.

[DeAnno]

As far as I can see, the three four pressing questions for any build are:

1) How do you MAKE your gear and what can you make?
2) Of the options available to you, what gear DO you make?
3) How do you USE the gear that you made?


4) What else do you do, unrelated to gear?

1, 3, and 4 could be gone over with only a very cursory description of any gear you actually create.

[dysprosium]

And we have our first entry!

About gear: I believe that judges penalize for reliance on gear for the build to work. Example being whatever the armor is that grants the Mobility feat and wearing that to qualify for a prestige class that has Mobility as a prerequisite.

Artificier is a very gear related class, but does not really rely on gear to make it go. It's a builder so looking at it through that lens might help there.

[ranagrande]

I've just got a few more details to work out on my VoP Forsaker and then I'll be entering this for sure!

[Cranthis]

I'm willing to judge on this.

[relytdan]

I'm willing to judge on this.

and looks like our first judge for this round.

[Snowbluff]

and looks like our first judge for this round.

Excuse moi? :smalltongue:

[relytdan]

Excuse moi? :smalltongue:

ahh (failed my spot check) sorry about that snowbluff... 2 judges it is then a good round hope there are many entries.

[Sian]

forgot to preroll the 1s out of your loaded die?

[Snowbluff]

*shakes head* No dice. The changing avatar gives +10 to hide. Don't worry about it. :smallredface:

[dysprosium]

Stopping by to ask how the building is going.

[Snowbluff]

Delays have been made in installing the door to the dome that will let the ray affect global weather patterns. Other than that, we're fine. I'd say we're only 3 weeks behind...

[ShneekeyTheLost]

I have a few ideas, however it's the blatantly obvious route. As in the one that literally everyone immediately thought of as soon as they read the class to emulate.

To be fair, it's the only way to pull off some of the things I think would simply be required to emulate the class. I see a lot of similar builds coming out of this one.

[relytdan]

not sure what Obvious might be :

mr. chairman will there be an extended time frame for juding or some such to get Zinc back offset of IC. ??

[WhamBamSam]

Despite having requested this SI on multiple occasions, I'm finding my idea falling apart when I try putting it into practice. I'll make one more go at turning it functional though.

[dysprosium]

So back from the weekend and I have no more entries for this round? :smalleek:

[Sian]

abandoned mine since it ended up not working ... or well, it did work but it was so counterproductive that it might as well havn't done

[Chronos]

I just never got around to doing mine.

How many entries do we have?

[dysprosium]

As I type this post I have one entry.

[Sian]

If it helps, at least from my end it aren't due to lack of interest, but it being very tough to build for (there is 1 build i could figure out other than the one i tried making work

[Chronos]

I could get my entry in later today or tomorrow, if the deadline is extended.

[WhamBamSam]

As I type this post I have one entry.Then I suppose I'll have to try finishing mine. I'm not entirely happy with it, but ah well. Both versions of the build are pretty cheesy, and neither one works quite as smoothly as the obvious things I'm trying to avoid.

[Svata]

I have an idea, but am unable to copy-paste, as my only access is on a Vita. That would mean typing out the table code in a PM while on a mobile device. Too much room for error, and too much work.

[WhamBamSam]

Just couldn't find the motivation to do a write-up today between workouts. I'll post both versions of the stub after the reveal, come up with some criteria, and judge the crap out of everything that was submitted.

[ranagrande]

I have some ideas, but I haven't had time to do them justice. If you wanted to extend the deadline by two or more days, I could promise an entry.

[dysprosium]

We still only have one entry . . .

People have expressed interest but needed an extension . . .

Extension granted!

New deadline for entries: Thursday, 11:59pm GMT, 21 August, 2014.

I have adjusted the OP as well to reflect new entry deadline.

[Chronos]

OK, my entry is in.

[relytdan]

hoping for more than 3 entries for this contest I would have thought there would have been more already...
who all are judging again?

[dysprosium]

Well the deadline extension has netted us another entry.

I hope more flow in.

I thought there would be more involvement :smallconfused:

[Chronos]

I believe that's the deadline-- Did we only get two entries?

[dysprosium]

Indeed there are only two but as usual wait until the all clear sign!

[dysprosium]

He builds towards vengence.


Tin-Man

N Psiforged: Duskblade 3/ STP Erudite 17

Character Background

Background
Tin-Man Warforge, good man with the underground resistance, who does not trust any but his closest friends.
Having been placed into an inert state for an extended length of time, being forced to watch an illusion as it showed his wife and son were killed over and over, he was found and rescued from that aweful state. He was healed and repaired and when told that the great evil which placed him into that state was still around, he began seeking vengeance for the death of his wife and son. Underneath it all he is mostly a good man who chooses to do what he thinks is right. Several years later after searching far and wide, he located those responsible for his inert state and torture. As he closed in on his target in many occasions he found others that needed his assistance. Missing chance after chance to take out his vengeance on them. It was then that he decided that he needed more than himself, setting up shop as a craftsman and engineer he started building several constructs to help him find, capture and bring those responsible to justice.


Character

Abilities
Warforged- Psiforged
+2 Constitution, –2 Wisdom, –2 Charisma
Medium
speed 30ft
Composite Plating: +2 armor bonus, 5% arcane spell failure
Immunity to poison, sleep effects, paralysis, disease, nausea, fatigue, exhaustion, effects that cause the sickened condition, and energy drain
does not need to eat, sleep, or breathe
Light Fortification (Ex):
Natural weapon: slam attack: 1d4
languages: Common, Sylvan, Dwarven, Draconic

Alignment: N
Deity: Xan Yae

32 point buy
str 12 dex 12 con 10 int 16 wis 15 cha 12

lvl 4-16 +4 int
lvl 20 +1 wis

str 12 dex 12 con 12 int 20 wis 14 cha 10


Effective Character Levels
Effective Character Levels



Level
Class
Base Attack Bonus
Fort Save
Ref Save
Will Save
Skills
Feats
Class Features


1st
Duskblade 1
1
2
0
2
Concentration 4, Knowledge (psionics) 4, Profession (engineer) 4, Spellcraft 4, Psicraft 2cc
Psiforged Body
Arcane attunement, armored mage (light)


2nd
Duskblade 2
2
3
0
3
Craft (blacksmithing) 1, Knowledge (psionics) 5, Craft (metalworking) 2, Craft (sculpting) 1
Combat Casting
Combat Casting


3rd
Duskblade 3
3
3
1
3
Craft (blacksmithing) 3, Knowledge (psionics) 6, Craft (sculpting) 3
Brew Potion
Arcane channeling


4th
STP Erudite 1
3
3
1
5
Craft (blacksmithing) 5, Knowledge (psionics) 7, Craft (sculpting) 5
-
Psicrystal Affinity, STP Erudite


5th
STP Erudite 2
4
3
1
6
Craft (blacksmithing) 7, Knowledge (psionics) 8, Craft (sculpting) 7
-
-


6th
STP Erudite 3
4
4
2
6
Craft (blacksmithing) 9, Knowledge (psionics) 9, Craft (sculpting) 9
Craft Universal Item
-


7th
STP Erudite 4
5
4
2
7
Craft (blacksmithing) 10, Knowledge (psionics) 10, Craft (sculpting) 10, Craft (metalworking) 4
-
-


8th
STP Erudite 5
5
4
2
7
Craft (metalworking) 7, Profession (engineer) 6, Psicraft 3
Craft Cognizance Crystal
Bonus feat


9th
STP Erudite 6
6
5
3
8
Craft (metalworking) 9, Profession (engineer) 9, Psicraft 4
Craft Psionic Arms and Armor
-


10th
STP Erudite 7
6
5
3
8
Craft (metalworking) 10, Profession (engineer) 11, Psicraft 5, Spellcraft 6
-
-


11th
STP Erudite 8
7
5
3
9
Profession (engineer) 14, Concentration 5, Psicraft 7
-
-


12th
STP Erudite 9
7
6
4
9
Profession (engineer) 15, Concentration 8, Psicraft 8, Spellcraft 7
Craft Construct
-


13th
STP Erudite 10
8
6
4
10
Profession (engineer) 16, Concentration 10, Psicraft 10, Spellcraft 8
Craft Psionic Construct
Bonus feat


14th
STP Erudite 11
8
6
4
10
Profession (engineer) 17, Concentration 11, Psicraft 12, Knowledge (psionics) 11, Spellcraft 9
-
-


15th
STP Erudite 12
9
7
5
11
Profession (engineer) 18, Concentration 14, Psicraft 13, Knowledge (psionics) 12
Craft Psicrown
-


16th
STP Erudite 13
9
7
5
11
Profession (engineer) 19, Concentration 16, Psicraft 16, Knowledge (psionics) 13
-
-


17th
STP Erudite 14
10
7
5
12
Profession (engineer) 20, Concentration 18, Psicraft 18, Spellcraft 10, Knowledge (psionics) 14
-
-


18th
STP Erudite 15
10
8
6
12
Profession (engineer) 21, Concentration 20, Psicraft 20, Spellcraft 11, Knowledge (psionics) 15
Improved Homunculus, Arcane Disciple
Bonus feat


19th
STP Erudite 16
11
8
6
13
Profession (engineer) 22, Concentration 22, Psicraft 22, Spellcraft 13
-
-


20th
STP Erudite 17
11
8
6
13
Profession (engineer) 23, Concentration 23, Psicraft 23, Spellcraft 17
-
-




Spells & Powers

Spells & Powers per Day/Spells Known
Includes bonus for high Int.


Level
Power Points/day
Unique Powers/day
Max Power Level Known


1st
1
0
0


2nd
1
0
0


3rd
1
0
0


4th
4
1
1


5th
10
2
1


6th
16
2
2


7th
24
3
2


8th
36
3
3


9th
48
4
3


10th
61
4
4


11th
75
5
4


12th
91
5
5


13th
109
6
5


14th
129
6
6


15th
151
7
6


16th
180
7
7


17th
206
8
7


18th
233
8
8


19th
262
9
8


20th
293
9
9


Duskblade Powers
level 1: 3, 2
level 2: 4, 3
level 3: 5, 4


Spells & Powers Known

Spells & Powers Known
Icludes bonus for high Int

Duskblade Powers
0
acid splash x2
ray of frost x3

1
blade of blood
chill touch
Kelgore’s fire bolt
magic weapon
true strike

War Domain
1 Magic Weapon: Weapon gains +1 bonus.
2 Spiritual Weapon: Magical weapon attacks on its own.
3 Magic Vestment: Armor or shield gains +1 enhancement per four levels.
4 Divine Power: You gain attack bonus, +6 to Str, and 1 hp/level.
5 Flame Strike: Smite foes with divine fire (1d6/level damage).
6 Blade Barrier: Wall of blades deals 1d6/level damage.
7 Power Word Blind: Blinds creature with 200 hp or less.
8 Power Word Stun: Stuns creature with 150 hp or less.
9 Power Word Kill: Kills creature with 100 hp or less

STP Erudite: treats the spell as a discipline power for the basis of learning it
Spellcraft check (DC 15 + the spell's level) and then a Psicraft check (DC 15 + power's level)
lvl pp
0 0* 5/day- Detect Magic, Read Magic, Light, Repair Minor Damage x2
1 1 <shaper> Astral Construct: Creates astral construct to fight for you
2 3 add 2pp, Ghost Touch Armor: Armor works normally against incorporeal attacks.
3 5 add 4pp, Invisibility: Subject is invisible for 1 min./level or until it attacks.
4 7 add 2pp, Divine Power: You gain attack bonus, +6 to Str, and 1 hp/level -Cleric need feat
5 9 add 2pp, Major Creation
6 11 add 4pp, Contingency
7 13 add 2pp, Giant Size
8 15 add 4pp, Polymorph Any Object
9 17 Wish

STP Erudite Powers
1st
Precognitionion, Offensive: Gain +1 insight bonus on your attack rolls
Déjà Vu: Your target repeats his last action
Force Screen: Invisible disc provides +4 shield bonus to AC.
Inertial Armor: Tangible field of force provides you with +4 armor bonus to AC.
Mind Thrust: Deal 1d10 damage
Bolt: You create a few enhanced short-lived bolts, arrows, or bullets
Float: You buoy yourself in water or other liquid.
Catfall: Instantly save yourself from a fall

2nd
Biofeedback: Gain damage reduction 2/–
Identify, Psionic: Learn the properties of a psionic item
Psychoportive Shelter: Create an extradimensional shelter
Levitate, Psionic: You move up and down, forward and back via mental support

3rd
Body Adjustment: You heal 1d12 points of damage
Energy Bolt: Deal 5d6 energy damage in 120-ft. line
Solicit Psicrystal: Your psicrystal takes over your concentration power.
Dispel Psionics: Cancels psionic powers and effects.

4th
Energy Adaptation: Your body converts energy to harmless light.
Freedom of Movement, Psionic: You cannot be held or otherwise rendered immobile
Telekinetic Maneuver: Telekinetically bull rush, disarm, grapple, or trip your target
Psychic Reformation: Subject can choose skills, feats, and powers anew for previous levels

5th
Incarnate: Make some powers permanent.
Cranial Deluge: Massive physical damage can cause your opponent's head to explode
True Seeing, Psionic: See all things as they really are
Power Resistance: Grant PR equal to 12 + level

6th
Overland Flight, Psionic: You fly at a speed of 40 ft. and can hustle over long distances.
Disintegrate, Psionic: Turn one creature or object to dust
Breath of the Black Dragon: Breathe acid for 11d6 damage
Retrieve: Teleport to your hand an item you can see

7th
Decerebrate: Remove portion of subject’s brain stem.
Planar Champion: Call a good or evil creature to do your bidding
Ultrablast: Deal 13d6 damage in 15-ft. radius
Divert Teleport: Choose destination for another’s teleport

8th
Recall Death: Subject dies or takes 5d6 damage.
Teleport, Psionic Greater: As psionic teleport, but no range limit and no off-target arrival
True Metabolism: You regenerate 10 hit points/round
Planar Embrace: receive abilities from the half-celestial template (MM 144) or the half-fiend template (MM 147), receive spell-like abilities that has Hit Dice equal to one-half your manifester level

9th
Assimilate: Incorporate creature into your own body
Etherealness, Psionic: Become ethereal for 1 min./level


Level Breakdown

Level Breakdown
Tin-Man is emulating a Psionic Artificier with the chairmains approval. With Psi-Hordeificer as the goal.
While Craft Construct is required for improved homunculus, as the Psionic artificer uses Craft Pisonic Construct it could be a minor thing for a DM to allow for it to qualify for improved homunculus, however the build uses craft construct as well. <If a DM were to allow craft psionic construct to qualify for improved homunculus, then one could replace Craft Construct with Craft Dorje (xph p44)>

levels 1-20 Tin-man as a Psiforged knows he needs a few good constructs to join him and so he sets out to construct a few of them.
If the Optional Constructs with permenant divine power are considered, (this could add 6,957 XP to the build, well within the 10,000 extra allowed by this contest)
At Level 20 Tin-man has WBL: 760,000gp, if he had a workshop, mw tools, and includes the cost for the constructs, the build would use 295,945gp (roughly 39% of WBL) well within range to allow for random stuff the character would need to aquire for everyday adventuring through 20 levels.

level 5 Tin-man will have only his Psycrystal with Artiste +3 bonus on Craft checks to help out later in the build, with a few spells and powers.
level 12 Sweet Spot: Tin-man with a mid range 1D20 roll should be able to create Construct's #1, 2, 3 & 4 these constructs make Tin-man one to watch out for.
level 20 Tin-man should be able to create constructs #5 & 6 with a mid range 1D20 roll, this could give Tin-man a small construct force at his control to do his bidding as a great Psi-Hordeficer.

Tin-Man compared to Psionic Artificer/Artificer

Psionic Artificer/Artificer: has 12 individual skills, 13 total class feats, D6 4+Int, Bab 15 fort +6 ref +6 will +12

Tin-Man has 6 of the individual skills (8 total), 6 of the 13 class feats (11 total), HD 4.6 (D4 2+int), Bab 11 fort +8 ref +6 will +13
Other things that help Tin-Man: STP Erudite, Arcane Disciple, Armored Mage (light), Arcane Attunement & Arcane Channeling
while a normal artificer would use infusions into items, Tin-Man is a Manifester able to use 9th level powers and has the skills to have a decent bunch of constructs.

Optional Things

Optional Things
Could use Permanency or Incarnate at level 20 to make Divine Power permanent at a cost of 2,000 XP or placed as a continous effect at a cost of 224,000gp, on the psiforged body. Either would give tin-man a Bab 20/15/10/5.

Warforged Componants (Ebcs p268-269)
Galvanic Crysteel Blade moe p125 attached-is a scimitar or longsword, can store 20 pp, may add pp to weapon for bonus damage upto 5
Armbow attached-is a +2 repeating light crossbow
Battlefist attached-is a +1 spiked guantlet increases slam to 1d8 B/P
Elemental Axe sox p148 attached-is a twin head +2 flaming frost battleaxe, 1 energy type on each head
Spinning Flail sox p149 attached-is a +1 vicious flail, usual flail & +2 to disarm, trip & start grapple

Weapon Property DMG p225 -spell storing Energy Bolt: Deal 5d6 energy damage in 120-ft. line - Electricity
Weapon Property DMG p225 -spell storing Sound Lance: Sonic energy deals 1d8/level damage (10d8max)

Tracker Mask roe p176 attached-eyes slot, is a thin mask grants its wearer the scent ability (mm p314)
Docent Component embedded-neck slot, Int 14, Wis 12, Cha 12, speaks giant & common, 4 bonus languages, spellcraft 10 r, knowledge psionics 10 r
Expanded Reservoir moe p125 embedded-headband slot, the storage capacity of your psiforged body by 6 power points.
Psychic Generator moe p126 embedded-increases your daily power point reserve by 1 power point
Behemoth Belt sox p148 embedded-belt slot, Once per day, the wearer grows in size by one category for 5 minutes

Construct's

Construct's
Construct Traits: has immunity to poison, sleep effects, paralysis, stunning, disease, death effects, necromancy effects, mind-affecting effects, spells and
abilities (charms, compulsions, phantasms, patterns, and morale effects), and any effect that requires a Fortitude save unless it also works on objects or is harmless. It is not subject to extra damage from critical hits, nonlethal damage, ability damage, ability drain, fatigue, exhaustion, or energy drain. It cannot heal damage, but it can be repaired. It has darkvision out to 60 feet and low-light vision

#1: Homunculus DC 12 Craft (sculpting)

Improved Homunculus ABILITIES: Durable Gains 10 hp, Strong Gains +2 Strength
Homunculus
Tiny Construct
Hit Dice: 2d10 (11 hp)


#2: Arbalester DC 14 Craft (sculpting)

Improved Homunculus ABILITIES: Durable Gains 10 hp, Dextrous Gains +2 Dexterity
Arbalester
Tiny Construct
Hit Dice: 1d10 (5 hp)


#3: Persistant Harrier DC 14 Craft (sculpting)

Improved Homunculus ABILITIES: Durable Gains 10 hp, Weapon ability Natural weapons gain special ability
Persistant Harrier
Small Construct
Hit Dice: 2d10+10 (21 hp)


#4: Iron Defender DC 14 Craft (metalworking)

Improved Homunculus ABILITIES: Durable Gains 10 hp, Strong Gains +2 Strength
Iron Defender
Small Construct
Hit dice: 2d10+10 (21 hp)


#5: Shield Guardian DC 16 Craft (blacksmithing)

Improved Homunculus ABILITIES: Dextrous Gains +2 Dexterity, Weapon ability Natural weapons gain special ability
Shield Guardian
Large Construct
Hit Dice: 15d10+30 (112 hp)


#6: Runic Guardian DC 20 Craft (sculpting) & DC 15 Craft (metalworking) or Profession (engineer) & Creator must be 16th lvl and have Craft Wondrous Item feat

Improved Homunculus ABILITIES: Dextrous Gains +2 Dexterity, Weapon ability Natural weapons gain special ability
Runic Guardian
Large Construct
Hit Dice: 17d10+30 (123 hp)


Psicrystal

Psicrystal
Diminutive Construct
Hit Dice: (17-20) (hp 1/2 master’s)
Psicrystal
level nat int special
1st–2nd +0 +0 Alertness, improved evasion, personality, self-propulsion, share powers, sighted, telepathic link
3rd–4th +1 +1 Deliver touch powers
5th–6th +2 +2 Telepathic speech
7th–8th +3 +3 —
9th–10th +4 +4 Flight
11th–12th +5 +5 Power resistance
13th–14th +6 +6 Sight link
15th–16th +7 +7 Channel power
17th–18th +8 +8
19th–20th +9 +9

Artiste +3 bonus on Craft checks




Sources

Sources
SRD
Warforged, Psiforged (roe p7 & moe p39)
Xan Yae (CDiv p123)
Duskblade (phb2 p19)
Erudite (cpsi p153)
STP Erudite ( http://web.archive.org/web/20130605114655/https://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/psm/20070629a )
Psiforged Body (moe p51)
Combat Casting (phb p92)
Brew Potion (phb p89)
Craft Cognizance Crystal (xph p44)
Arcane Disciple (CDiv p79)
War Domain (phb p189)
Divine Power(phb p224)
Craft universal item (xph p39)
craft psicrown (xph p39)
craft psionic arms and armor (xph p44)
Craft Construct (MM p303) (MM3 p206)
Craft psionic construct (xph p45)
Improved Homunculus (moe p49)
Psicrystal (xph p21 & p207)
Iron Defender (Ebcs p287)
Arbalester (moe p152)
Homunculus (mm p154)
Persistant Harrier (moe p153)
Shield Guardian (mm p223)
Runic Guardian (mm2 p182 & 3.5up p36)

[dysprosium]

A different take on the welfare state.


The great advantage to living in a society, Grat had always thought, was that a clever and resourceful person could thereby avoid hard work. Why bother to paint a fence, when you can let others paint it for you? Why bother to run the world, when you can let a collaboration of gods run it for you? Why bother to learn how to contain magical energies in objects, when you can let eldritch entities from beyond the bounds of time and space learn it for you? And if it’s occasionally convenient to accept bribes from the fence-painters, or to worship the gods, or to allow the eldritch entities to experience life vicariously through you, well, so be it.


Grat binds as an 11th-level binder, allowing him two vestiges. He usually chooses Karsus and Astaroth. Astaroth gives him his choice of item creation feat each day, and Karsus enables him to use items he makes more effectively, by giving him a +2 to the save DCs of item effects.

He also casts as a 17th-level wizard. This enables him to provide the required spells for making most magic items. For items which require other spells, he typically uses his Chameleon bonus feat on Arcane Disciple to gain access to an appropriate domain. As a worshiper of the Sovereign Host, this gives him access as needed to 41 different domains. Additionally, he can cast any spell of up to 2nd level, from any list, using his Chameleon casting. In the rare event that a spell is neither on the wizard list nor on any of the Host’s domains, and is above 2nd level, he can take Arcane Disciple: Luck to emulate it via Miracle.

Use Magic Device is a cross-class skill for most of his career, but this is mitigated by his Able Learner feat, which lets him buy ranks at one point each, and by his Mage’s Spectacles soulmeld, which gives a +4 to the skill (or more, if he takes Bonus Essentia). When it becomes a class skill at level 15, he invests all of his skill points in it to quickly catch it up. He also doesn’t need Use Magic Device for most items, since his wizard casting qualifies him for many of them.


Neutral Human wizard 1/binder 1/wizard +2/anima mage 10/chameleon 2/wizard +4
Abilities: Int primary, plus some Wis (for Arcane Disciple) and Cha (for UMD and binding)



Level
Class
Skills
Feats
Class Features


1st
Wizard 1
Bluff 2, Disguise 2, Intimidate 2, Know (Planes) 4, Sense Motive 2, Spellcraft 4, UMD 2
Able Learner, Scribe Scroll, <any metamagic>
Spells, familiar


2nd
Binder 1
Bluff 5, Disguise 2, Intimidate 4, Know (Planes) 4, Sense Motive 4, Spellcraft 4 UMD 2
—
Soul binding


3rd
Wizard 2
Bluff 6, Disguise 3, Intimidate 4, Know (Planes) 4, Sense Motive 4, Spellcraft 4, UMD 3
Improved Binding
2nd-level vestiges


4th
Wizard 3
Bluff 7, Disguise 3, Intimidate 4, Know (Planes) 4, Sense Motive 4, Spellcraft 4, UMD 3
—
2nd-level spells


5th
Anima Mage 1
Bluff 8, Disguise 4, Intimidate 4, Know (Planes) 4, Sense Motive 4, Spellcraft 4, UMD 4
—
—


6th
Anima Mage 2
Bluff 8, Disguise 4, Sense Motive 4, Spellcraft 4, UMD 4
Shape Soulmeld: Mage’s Spectacles
3rd-level vestiges (Karsus),exploit vestige


7th
Anima Mage 3
Bluff 8, Disguise 5, Sense Motive 4, Spellcraft 4, UMD 5
—
vestigial awareness


8th
Anima Mage 4
Bluff 8, Disguise 5, Sense Motive 4, Spellcraft 4, UMD 5
—
4th-level vestiges (Astaroth)


9th
Anima Mage 5
Bluff 8, Disguise 6, Sense Motive 4, Spellcraft 4, UMD 6
<any feat>
vestige metamagic 1/day


10th
Anima Mage 6
Bluff 8, Disguise 6, Sense Motive 4, Spellcraft 4, UMD 6
—
—


11th
Anima Mage 7
Bluff 8, Disguise 7, Sense Motive 4, Spellcraft 4, UMD 7
—
2 vestiges,vestige metamagic 2/day


12th
Anima Mage 8
Bluff 8, Disguise 7, Sense Motive 4, Spellcraft 4, UMD 7
<any feat>
—


13th
Anima Mage 9
Bluff 8, Disguise 8, Sense Motive 4, Spellcraft 4, UMD 8
—
vestige metamagic 3/day


14th
Anima Mage 10
Bluff 8, Disguise 8, Sense Motive 4, Spellcraft 4, UMD 8
—
vestige casting


15th
Chameleon 1
Bluff 8, Disguise 8, Sense Motive 4, Spellcraft 4, UMD 16
<any feat>
Aptitude Focus 1/day


16th
Chameleon 2
UMD 19
Chameleon bonus feat
(usually Arcane Disciple)
—


17th
Wizard 4
UMD 20
—
--


18th
Wizard 5
UMD 21
<any feat>, <any metamagic>
--


19th
Wizard 6
UMD 22
—
--


20th
Wizard 7
UMD 23
—
--



Refinement:
I’ve left many of the feats unspecified, because the build works fine for any choice of them. Likely, most of them would be used on metamagic feats, like with any caster. One particularly strong choice would be to take Extend Spell at 1st level followed by Persist Spell at 9th, when Vestige Metamagic becomes available. Bonus Essentia is also an option, for an extra +4 to Use Magic Device via Mage’s Spectacles.

It would have been slightly stronger to start with Binder instead of Wizard (a larger hit die to maximize, and 1st-level binders have a bit more staying power than 1st-level wizards). I chose to start with wizard instead because it allows Grat to do some rudimentary crafting (of scrolls) right from the start.

I could have gone for earlier entry to Anima Mage via various tricks, or filled in the last four levels with any prestige class that advances wizard, but I felt that this would detract from the elegance of the build, as it’s not really relevant to the goal. Likewise, Scribe Scroll could be chaos-shuffled away or otherwise exchanged at level 8, when Astaroth becomes available, but this is a bit cheesy for my taste.


Grat can make some magic items starting at 1st level, most by level 8, and almost all by the end of his career. He can use most of them, either natively or via Use Magic Device, and can do so more effectively than others. He has a great deal of power from spells, and can apply metamagic feats that he knows for free, comparable to the artificer’s metamagic-related infusions.


Core
Tome of Magic (binder, improved binding, anima mage, Karsus)
Cityscape web enhancement (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/we/20070307a) (Astaroth)
Races of Destiny (able learner, chameleon)
Complete Divine (arcane disciple)
Faiths of Eberron (Sovereign Host and their domains)
Magic of Incarnum (shape soulmeld, mage’s spectacles)

[dysprosium]

And there you go.

Was this as hard of an ingredient as it seemed? Or did the great Vizzini keep a lot of competitors out?

[Sian]

had two builds floating around, one was based around Warlock 12 / Chameleon 2, but in my mind it was way to obvious, and the other was some variant of Bard 4 / Rogue 1 / Gnome Artificer 10 (from Magic of Faerun), but that died on the fact that their items are more expensive to make than to go out in Magic'R'Us and buy a similar item. Only thing (if any) it had going for it was that it was non-magical, so i guess in theory i could have gone Forsaker with it, but eh...

[Chronos]

My guess is it's just a busy time of year for everyone, what with back-to-school.

And when we were all talking about "the obvious option" at the beginning of the thread, we were all referring to Midgard dwarves, from Frostburn, right?

[Svata]

My idea, while not as obvious as a warlock/chameleon, was fairly simple. It was an Archivist/Wizard theurge build. All Wiz/Sorc spells up to 7th, and all divine spells. Lots of crafting feats, obviously. Considered going with Ur-Priest instead for dual 9s for crafting, but figured the depth of the archivist list was worth it for the loss of wizard 8ths and 9ths. Just wish MT went more than 10 levels.

[WhamBamSam]

My idea was actually pretty similar to Grat.

It was originally a Steel Wyrmling 4/LA +2/Sorcerer 1/Binder 1/Singer of Concordance 2/Anima Mage 10 using age curses to gain new spells known and switching the Singer of Concordance Bonus Domain for various Sovereign Host domains via the Substitute Domain spell to get the spells needed for crafting. It only had 8th level spells (and even then only at level 20) even with curse cheese though, and Steel Wyrmlings don't have crafting time to avoid extra levels in RHD/LA without Steal Life. I tried to make it work with a Dragonwrought Kobold, but couldn't come up with a way to adjust spells known without chaos shuffling around Extra Spell feats and kept stumbling over other things like me realizing that the Flame of the Forge Sovereign Archetype doesn't actually give you access to the Cleric spell list, just a small list of bonus spells known.

[ranagrande]

I got the extension I requested, and I still couldn't find time to get an entry together. Oh well.

My three build ideas were Warlock/Chameleon like everyone else, Archivist/ Techsmith, and Wizard/Maester/ Fleshwarper.

[Sian]

I got the extension I requested, and I still couldn't find time to get an entry together. Oh well.

My three build ideas were Warlock/Chameleon like everyone else, Archivist/ Techsmith, and Wizard/Maester/ Fleshwarper.

I did look at Techsmith in length of poking around Gnome Artificer, but while getting a kinda crappy robot minion and allowence to play around with Firearms and explosives, it doesn't really bring anything to the table emulationwise

[relytdan]

interesting - who's judging this ?

[DeAnno]

The sad part about the Warlock base is you have to wait until level 12 (14 if using Chameleon for the Creation feats) to craft anything. It really has trouble feeling like an artificer when you need to wait that long.

[Snowbluff]

Mhm.

I'll take a look later.

[Troacctid]

The sad part about the Warlock base is you have to wait until level 12 (14 if using Chameleon for the Creation feats) to craft anything. It really has trouble feeling like an artificer when you need to wait that long.

Eldritch Blast = Blaster Raygun
Baleful Utterance = Sonic Pulse Detonator
Detect Magic = Magic-Detecting Thaumometer
See the Unseen = Enhanced Vision Goggles MkII
Fell Flight = Jetpack

etc.

[Sian]

The sad part about the Warlock base is you have to wait until level 12 (14 if using Chameleon for the Creation feats) to craft anything. It really has trouble feeling like an artificer when you need to wait that long.

not quite true, if only depending on Chameleon for item creation feats, and taking the two levels of Chameleon asap you can start crafting at level 7, you just can't depend on spells from other places than what a level 2 Chameleon have access to. Warlocks still supply with the ability to create stuff that only depends on Caster Level. Imbue Item merely makes it so you can emulate any spell for the purposes of item creation, and that XP aren't lost (paid in front), but instead stalled until you get enough to pay for it.

[relytdan]

Chameleon only goes so far for creation feats.. and artificer certainly has the market cornered on that aspect.

*Edit so as to not double post
2014-08-22, 06:21 AM was when entries were posted - today is 2014-08-28 - I still ask WHO is judging?

[dysprosium]

I don't think people get too uppity about double posts especially if they are days apart. :smallwink:

But I'm just peeking in to see how our judges are doing.

[relytdan]

@ Snowbluff & Cranthis
Dear Judges: I ask a simple Question as there are only 2 builds to judge - are you judging?
how long can it take to judge just 2?

cant wait!

[relytdan]

Judges will then have until Monday, 11:59pm GMT, 1 September, 2014
today is September 3rd...
Honerable chairman as it seems our judges have failed to put forth any scoring efforts it fall to you to judge these OR
call Zinc Saucier XXVII: Build This! - Dead and move along

[dysprosium]

For some reason I thought the judging deadline was next week . . .

Where does the time go?

As per my unwritten rule, if no judges have posted scores past the judging deadline, I as Chairman will score the builds. I should have something up later today. Only one round in the past (Round 8: Warblade) moved on without scores and that doesn't sit right with me personally.

So considering the lackluster showing for this round, I pose these questions to our gentle readers:


1) Should Zinc Saucier continue?
1a) If yes then should I still be the Chairman?
1b) If no should it be permanent or just a how ever long hiatus?

[Chronos]

I would say put up one more, with a somewhat longer-than-usual deadline (maybe 50% longer), and state up front that if you get less than X entries (maybe 3?), you'll consider it dead.

[AvatarVecna]

I think the problem this round wasn't so much a slowly dying interest in this competition, but an almost-nonexistent interest in this particular ingredient: Fighters are a D&D staple, and there's tons of classes/PrCs based around martial prowess; it's easy to build something to reflect a Fighter's style, feel, and capabilities.

The Artificer makes magic items. The Artificer has one really interesting class feature that's difficult to replicate without levels in Artificer. Being a master craftsman doesn't appeal to most adventurers; that's what NPCs are for, and that's why this particular ingredient didn't do so well.

Well, that's my opinion, anyway.

My advice: the secret ingredient should either be something that's alright in just about any dish, or be the key flavor to a particular style of dish, so as to ensure interest and variety in the dishes presented. Monk was flavorful; Fighter was versatile. Pyrokineticist was flavorful; Druid was versatile. Artificer wasn't particularly flavorful, and the ways that it's versatile weren't easily replicated.

[WhamBamSam]

I think the problem this round wasn't so much a slowly dying interest in this competition, but an almost-nonexistent interest in this particular ingredient: Fighters are a D&D staple, and there's tons of classes/PrCs based around martial prowess; it's easy to build something to reflect a Fighter's style, feel, and capabilities.

The Artificer makes magic items. The Artificer has one really interesting class feature that's difficult to replicate without levels in Artificer. Being a master craftsman doesn't appeal to most adventurers; that's what NPCs are for, and that's why this particular ingredient didn't do so well.

Well, that's my opinion, anyway.

My advice: the secret ingredient should either be something that's alright in just about any dish, or be the key flavor to a particular style of dish, so as to ensure interest and variety in the dishes presented. Monk was flavorful; Fighter was versatile. Pyrokineticist was flavorful; Druid was versatile. Artificer wasn't particularly flavorful, and the ways that it's versatile weren't easily replicated.I've been asking for Artificer for a while. I just couldn't make my ideas work. Then I sorta got caught up in other things and didn't really make an attempt at judging.

Anyway, I really like ZS, even if I haven't been as active a participant as maybe I should be. I think part of it is that I really only submit to the side competitions if I've got a really good idea. I've actually only submitted in two ZS rounds and two JW rounds. Every time, I expected to win (and in fact did). In IC, I'll frequently submit builds that I think will be lucky to place 6th. Part of that is that I expect there to be more competition, but I don't think that's all of it.

But yeah, I'd really like to see ZS continue and I think you're doing a fine job as chairman dysprosium.

[relytdan]

But yeah, I'd really like to see ZS continue and I think you're doing a fine job as chairman dysprosium.

I will agree with the above statement

[Curmudgeon]

So considering the lackluster showing for this round, I pose these questions to our gentle readers:


1) Should Zinc Saucier continue?
1a) If yes then should I still be the Chairman?
1b) If no should it be permanent or just a how ever long hiatus?

That's a hard call. The contest has suffered a decline in interest due to obscure SI choices, and you've admitted that you chose those based on numerical value tie-ins rather than ingredient appeal. At this point I'm not sure if ZS can recover, even with different policies or a different Chairman.

One possible way to determine the answer would be a poll outside the Zinc Saucier thread. Maybe advertise in the other contest threads (Iron Chef, Junkyard Wars) and you might catch some people who would be interested, but only if ZS changed its tack.

Personally, I'd leave most prestige classes in the domain of Iron Chef. (They got there first, for one thing). ZS gets 20 levels to make a build, and a 10-level prestige class isn't nearly as interesting a challenge as a 20-level base class. So if the minimum for every ZS Secret Ingredient was more than 10 levels, I'd be happier.

One possible way of increasing the showing is to list several candidate SIs, and wait for people to sign up either to compete or judge for each. A contest doesn't start until there's sufficient stated interest both for entrants and for judges; we let the crowd determine the final SI rather than the Chairman. (Then, of course, it becomes the Chairman's job to keep track of follow-through and tally that (3/5 entries, 2/6 judging, or whatever) to tag those promises with an index of reliability.)

[dysprosium]

First thank you to both of you for submitting anything. I’ve said before that these competitions only survive by having participants. Both of you took the idea and went in a different way and was not the “expected” way. Of course it seems like the “expected” ways were Vizzini’ed out.
Please note that this judging will not be as detailed in commentary as some of my previous judgings have been. This comes down to time being a factor.

Tin-Man 16
Originality: 3
We have an emulation of the psionic artificer with a psiforged base. The idea of a warforged artificer is not necessarily a new one but this was not the way I envisioned the build going. However nothing in the build itself seems new since Spell to Power Erudite is well known.
Power: 5
We have the well known powerhouse Spell to Power Erudite with all of the bells and whistles. Ninth level psionic/spells are gained by Level 20. The Duskblade early on seems to be more for survivability in the early game and does not seem to be used much after—nor does it really need to be. You spend all of your feats with item creation which takes away from the powers/spells but plays more to the ability of the Artificier. Arcane Disciple does come in late game though and with the Wisdom of 14 only up to the 4th level spells are going to be able to be utilized from your chosen domain. Plus you have Spell to Power Erudite.
Elegance: 4.5
Outside of using Spell to Power Erudite, which some DMs outright ban, there isn’t much to talk about. With any item builder class, you would have to consult with the DM anyways. Arcane Disciple requires Knowledge (religion) 4 but Tin Man does not have that Knowledge.
Emulation of Secret Ingredient: 4
You have either the same feat or the psionic version of all of the Artificier bonus feats. I like the use of having homunculi though the Improved Homunculus feat comes later than the “regular” Artificer. I like the idea of the Duskblade spells being channeled as Artificer infusions, but you do have limited capability with that (and War domain does not add spells for Duskblade to use in arcane channeling). I do see you as an Artificier, and an unusual one at that.

Grat 15.5
Originality: 4
I knew that Binders were good for a lot of things but I did not really think that they could pull off the full Artificer role. Wizard and Anima Mage are natural to accompany Binder. Chameleon is interesting to pick up here too.
Power: 5
Anima Mage is known to increase power and versatility. Ninth level spells picked up by Level 20 combined with the utility of Binder equals being able to do a lot here. Chameleon adds to your versatility as well. You should be able to do just about anything that the party needs one way or the other.
Elegance: 2.5
I can appreciate the fact that the build lends itself to customization for anyone to use it and transplant it into their own personal campaigns. However it is customary to fill out all of these to help see what Grat can do as you envision him. Also in the case of class emulation, the item creation feats would have been nice to see placed into the build itself. Exact ability scores also would have helped here as well. It is a bare bones build, I would have liked more flesh on it.
Emulation of Secret Ingredient: 4
I liked your use of Astaroth and Karsus to emulate the important parts of the Aritificer class features. Grat does not need to have all of the item creation feats, just the ones that the party needs right now. Plus the things Grat makes he can put to better use. I see you as an Artificer, especially when you are binding your favored vestiges.

So the Final Standings for Round XXVII:
First place: Tin Man by relytdan
Second place: Grat by Chronos


I appreciate the kind words and the advice. I'm going to give the "regular" format slightly tweaked one more good try before approaching it in a whole new way. Curmudgeon's idea is interesting and will probably be one I will adopt in one form or another if the next ingredient does not get greater interest.

New round up now (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?370235-Zinc-Saucier-XXVIII-Chivalry-is-not-dead!)!