Magus: the mystery.

[Dragvandil]

There doesnt seem to be a lot written on how you roleplay a Magus. Unlike the Wizard or Fighter (the parent classes) there isnt a wealth of literature and even mythology to pull from. Off hand the only magic using warrior that springs to mind is Odin, though Im sure I could find a few others

And a google search only brings forth a few topics, including one I made 2 years ago.

So, opening up again on thoughts and ideas.

How do you roleplay a Magus, or how would you roleplay a Magus?

[Snowbluff]

Cocky.

"Hey fighter, I have spells and I'm better at fighting than you are!"

[Hand_of_Vecna]

Cocky.

"Hey fighter, I have spells and I'm better at fighting than you are!"

I was going to say something similar with the word "Badass"

Their spell and weapon two weapon fighting makes them feel so goddamned cool and by them I mean the character's perception of themselves. They outclass mundanes at combat, but tend to act more like mundane badasses than all powerful full casters.

[Red Fel]

How do you roleplay a Magus, or how would you roleplay a Magus?

As himself.

I don't need blue text there. That's not facetious. Just as there are hundreds of ways to play a Fighter, Wizard, or Rogue, a Magus can be anybody.

Is he: A brash adventurer, quick with a blade, a spell, and his wits? A studious individual, preparing his third thesis on kinaesthetics as applied in the use of fireball spells when performed whilst leaping through the air? A pious soul, seeking perfection of body, mind, and spirit, and seeing his magic as yet another muscle he must learn to flex with precision and caution? A heavily armed, deranged lunatic, with a passion for small rodents that borders on the obscene and a yet-unexplained hatred for dairy products?
Seriously. I can't think of "there is only one" for most classes; I certainly couldn't limit Magus that way.

And as for how I, personally, would play one? Same rule. It depends on the character concept that inspired me to take Magus in the first place.

[Starbuck_II]

There doesnt seem to be a lot written on how you roleplay a Magus. Unlike the Wizard or Fighter (the parent classes) there isnt a wealth of literature and even mythology to pull from. Off hand the only magic using warrior that springs to mind is Odin, though Im sure I could find a few others

And a google search only brings forth a few topics, including one I made 2 years ago.

So, opening up again on thoughts and ideas.

How do you roleplay a Magus, or how would you roleplay a Magus?
A Magus is sort of an Eldritch Knight as a base class or a redone Duskblade. So use Duskblade info in PHB 2 in 3.5.
It has elven origins (complete book of Elves is original source).

[Dragvandil]

As himself.

I don't need blue text there. That's not facetious. Just as there are hundreds of ways to play a Fighter, Wizard, or Rogue, a Magus can be anybody.

Is he: A brash adventurer, quick with a blade, a spell, and his wits? A studious individual, preparing his third thesis on kinaesthetics as applied in the use of fireball spells when performed whilst leaping through the air? A pious soul, seeking perfection of body, mind, and spirit, and seeing his magic as yet another muscle he must learn to flex with precision and caution? A heavily armed, deranged lunatic, with a passion for small rodents that borders on the obscene and a yet-unexplained hatred for dairy products?
Seriously. I can't think of "there is only one" for most classes; I certainly couldn't limit Magus that way.

And as for how I, personally, would play one? Same rule. It depends on the character concept that inspired me to take Magus in the first place.

-nods- certainly agreeable, but I feel that the Magus lacks archetypes. Not mechanichally, god there are plenty of good Maghus archetypes. But I see Magus as kinda working backwards.

Someone says to me "I want to play a Wizard, like Zedd in the Sword of truth series!" I have something to go on. If I want to make someone like John Snow, I know how I want to flavor my fighter.

But off hand I cant think of anyone that would make me say "Well I (or you) should play a Magus."

[Red Fel]

-nods- certainly agreeable, but I feel that the Magus lacks archetypes. Not mechanichally, god there are plenty of good Maghus archetypes. But I see Magus as kinda working backwards.

Someone says to me "I want to play a Wizard, like Zedd in the Sword of truth series!" I have something to go on. If I want to make someone like John Snow, I know how I want to flavor my fighter.

But off hand I cant think of anyone that would make me say "Well I (or you) should play a Magus."

Red Mage, from 8-bit Theater. Or Zedd. Or Luke Skywalker, perhaps.

Let me offer an allegory.

A Magus is a spellcaster who casts with his off-hand. Think about it that way. The Wizard or Sorcerer casts with his main hand, or both hands. The Cleric casts with his hands clasped in prayer. But the Magus? The Magus has a weapon in his main hand. He uses that weapon. He likes that weapon. He is known for that weapon.

The Wizard is known for raising his arms and changing the world. The Sorcerer warps reality with his main hand, while his off hand grows claws or something. The Druid puts his palms to the earth, and the plants rush up to greet him. The Magus has better things to do. He has a sword, or a gun, or a mace. He wants to introduce that weapon to someone. Vigorously. But when that doesn't work, he has a spell in his off-hand.

End allegory.

Basically, the Magus is the action hero who happens to have spells, as opposed to the one focused on his spells. He's clearly not a mundane. Han Solo is no Magus. But Luke Skywalker is. Luke is an action hero, of course - have lightsaber, will travel. But it doesn't hurt to be able to wiggle a finger and cloud a weak mind. Or to use telekinesis to retrieve - wait for it - the aforementioned lightsaber.

So yeah, think about it that way. If your player wants a combat hero who happens to use spells, as opposed to one focused on his spells, show him the Magus.

And ask if he likes lightsabers.

[Dragvandil]

A Magus is sort of an Eldritch Knight as a base class or a redone Duskblade. So use Duskblade info in PHB 2 in 3.5.
It has elven origins (complete book of Elves is original source).

I dont remember being all to thrilled with the Duskblade as far as information. Also I have a weird notion of elves being pricks. But I'll look into both.


Red Mage, from 8-bit Theater. Or Zedd. Or Luke Skywalker, perhaps.

Let me offer an allegory.

A Magus is a spellcaster who casts with his off-hand. Think about it that way. The Wizard or Sorcerer casts with his main hand, or both hands. The Cleric casts with his hands clasped in prayer. But the Magus? The Magus has a weapon in his main hand. He uses that weapon. He likes that weapon. He is known for that weapon.

The Wizard is known for raising his arms and changing the world. The Sorcerer warps reality with his main hand, while his off hand grows claws or something. The Druid puts his palms to the earth, and the plants rush up to greet him. The Magus has better things to do. He has a sword, or a gun, or a mace. He wants to introduce that weapon to someone. Vigorously. But when that doesn't work, he has a spell in his off-hand.

End allegory.

Basically, the Magus is the action hero who happens to have spells, as opposed to the one focused on his spells. He's clearly not a mundane. Han Solo is no Magus. But Luke Skywalker is. Luke is an action hero, of course - have lightsaber, will travel. But it doesn't hurt to be able to wiggle a finger and cloud a weak mind. Or to use telekinesis to retrieve - wait for it - the aforementioned lightsaber.

So yeah, think about it that way. If your player wants a combat hero who happens to use spells, as opposed to one focused on his spells, show him the Magus.

And ask if he likes lightsabers.

And you sir.... you win.

[Dalebert]

But off hand I cant think of anyone that would make me say "Well I (or you) should play a Magus."

Luke Skywalker

[Dragvandil]

I do have a minor issue with Luke. That being "I want to play Luke Skywalker" makes me want to play a Star Wars rpg. :p


But he is a good Archetype.

[mephnick]

Video games might be your go to for archetypes, rather than books or movies.

Final Fantasy, Chrono Trigger (Magus!), Fire Emblem, Divinity etc etc

It's a role that is heavily ingrained into video games, but really hasn't taken off in any other medium.

[Fax Celestis]

As himself.

I don't need blue text there. That's not facetious. Just as there are hundreds of ways to play a Fighter, Wizard, or Rogue, a Magus can be anybody.

Is he: A brash adventurer, quick with a blade, a spell, and his wits? A studious individual, preparing his third thesis on kinaesthetics as applied in the use of fireball spells when performed whilst leaping through the air? A pious soul, seeking perfection of body, mind, and spirit, and seeing his magic as yet another muscle he must learn to flex with precision and caution? A heavily armed, deranged lunatic, with a passion for small rodents that borders on the obscene and a yet-unexplained hatred for dairy products?
Seriously. I can't think of "there is only one" for most classes; I certainly couldn't limit Magus that way.

And as for how I, personally, would play one? Same rule. It depends on the character concept that inspired me to take Magus in the first place.

I am enchanting this post. It is now +1.

[Dragvandil]

At least a +1 :D

[Fax Celestis]

But off hand I cant think of anyone that would make me say "Well I (or you) should play a Magus."

Luke Skywalker. Darth Vader. Basically anyone from Bleach. Link (and Samus Aran, for that matter). Menion Leah and Wil Omsford from Shannara. Iron Man, if you can be okay with tech = magic.

[Prime32]

Video games might be your go to for archetypes, rather than books or movies.

Final Fantasy, Chrono Trigger (Magus!), Fire Emblem, Divinity etc etc

It's a role that is heavily ingrained into video games, but really hasn't taken off in any other medium.From what I hear the JRPG archetype is descended from the original D&D ranger class - good-aligned human or elf warriors who could use both arcane and divine spells.

[ArqArturo]

They way you want to. A magus can be the cryptic sage, hooded and of sour mood; he can also be the brash adventurer, the questing knight, a duelist, a thief, a warlord.

Roleplaying is wonderful in that way.

That being said, my way to describe blackblades is that they have mechanic inlay inside them, that they glow in a low light, that they are pitch black but reflect light sometimes, that they hum ominously when you put arcana points on them to make effects.

They also are devious bastards, and you don't want to put more than one Blackblade in the same room, because it freaks people out.

[Dragvandil]

my Blackblade is acctually pretty sweet.

While I was trying to justify being both a Blackblade and a hexcrafter I thought "Maybe my blackblade is a witch?"

Talked to my GM about it, and he liked the idea and told me to run with it. So my blackblade doesnt acctually have a purpose, what created her was more the unknowable will then her acctually being created for an unknowable will.

Love your description btw. ^_^

[Vhaidara]

This might cause some controversy, but I'm going to say Gandalf.

It's been established that he has solid (but not amazing) fighting abilities, so 3/4 BAB should be enough. Most of his magic is pretty limited, so he doesn't focus on his spellscasting. Rather, his focus is on the Arcane Pool and empowering his weapon.

Maybe a level dip into actual Wizard to pick up the +3 class skill bonus to Knowledges.

[Segev]

Nah, Gandalf is just enough higher level than the rest of his party that a BAB that's half his level is impressive compared to their 3/4 and 1:1 BABs.


Jedi are magi, as people have suggested.
Eragon is a magus.
Tolkein's elves are largely magi.
For a significant portion of Wheel of Time, Rand Al'Thor is a magus.
Naruto and his friends and enemies are largely magi.

Basically, if there's a concept for which you'd say, "You should play a fighter/wizard...except that's mechanically sub-optimal," that's a magus.

[umbergod]

Wasn't Elric pretty much a magus?

[Dragvandil]

Ive heard a lot of folks try to quantiffy Gandalf class wise. He certainly doesnt seem like atypical Wizard.

Personally I see him more as an Eldritch Knight. His skills seem much more seperated to me and distinct as opposed to something linked together. Where as for the Magus I see it as much more of a singular purpose like Luke Skywalker.

Also his powers seem much more divine in nature (and his history is much more divine.)

But he does have some good gishy moments, afterall he fights the **** out of the Balrog.

on the Jedi issuue... and I do have an issue. I just dont like Jedi to much for Magi. For one they are equal parts religious order and very uniform while magi are characterized more like Sith in a way. Much more chaotic in nature and all of them rather distinct. Luke is a fantastic example, because while he does have some spirituality and mysticism to him, he's still very smart, very practical, and Luke is essentialy removed from the Dark Side/Light side of the force issue and is more concerned with "The good side". Mace Windu and Obiwan are also good Jedi for examples, but probably the best is Starkiller from the "Force Unleashed" games because he acctually combines his powers with his swordplay, and in awesome ways. (If we ever get a Pathfinder 2.0 I hope the Magus gets more sword-spelly abilities along the lines of Starkiller.) With the exception of Starkiller and Luke, I just feel like Jedi are way to specialized RP wise to be good Magus Archetypes. Maybe as a singular "And this is what a Paladin flavored Magus would be like".

But the Jedi/Sith Orders do make good example organizations for what training might be like, what the structures might be like, etc.

[Red Fel]

Wasn't Elric pretty much a magus?

Every Elric (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elric_of_Melnibon%C3%A9) was (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edward_Elric) a Magus (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alphonse_Elric).

[Dragvandil]

Nah, Gandalf is just enough higher level than the rest of his party that a BAB that's half his level is impressive compared to their 3/4 and 1:1 BABs.


Jedi are magi, as people have suggested.
Eragon is a magus.
Tolkein's elves are largely magi.
For a significant portion of Wheel of Time, Rand Al'Thor is a magus.
Naruto and his friends and enemies are largely magi.

Basically, if there's a concept for which you'd say, "You should play a fighter/wizard...except that's mechanically sub-optimal," that's a magus.


I kinda disagree, on the last part.

Ive looked at the Fighter/Wizard builds and have been generally less then inspired by them. Sure mechanichally they are "better", but better doesnt = fun for me. A Fighter/Wizard just feels like Gandalf and that's not what I want to play. Where as the Magus feels like an Arcane warrior whose discipline is about both, and he isnt just using 2 different ones.

From Op I know the Magus has issues. For one he lacks most of the Duskblade advantages to make him an effective fighter at higher tiers, (d8 and no full batb) and he lacks the high level spells to make him a good wizard. To toss some 4e in he even lacks an ability to lower his massive abillity score issues. And while his other mechanichs are cool the copy paste spell list doesnt give him a whole lot to DO. I think the highest level touch spell you'd ever want to use is Vampiric touch, and you never get any Arcana that significantly remedy the issue. There are some cool Arcana, and the arcane pool shenenigans are fun but the most optmized Magus is still going to be at best on par with an unoptimized but well built fighter or a shoddily built but not horrific Wizard.

[Snowbluff]

The DB benefits heavily from the system it exists in. Shadow Pouncing, for example, synergizes VERY WELL with Full Channeling. You can even full channel a D Hop, and hit yourself with an armor spike for another full channel, or use Stand for an Immediate Action full attack.

[Vhaidara]

I kinda disagree, on the last part.

Ive looked at the Fighter/Wizard builds and have been generally less then inspired by them. Sure mechanichally they are "better", but better doesnt = fun for me. A Fighter/Wizard just feels like Gandalf and that's not what I want to play. Where as the Magus feels like an Arcane warrior whose discipline is about both, and he isnt just using 2 different ones.

I think he meant "You should play a fighter/wizard...except that's [playing a Fighter/Wizard] mechanically sub-optimal", not that Magus is sub-optimal compared to a Fighter/Wizard

[jaydubs]

These don't all exactly fit the magus mechanics, but they're all magic using warriors of some sort or another.

Dresden Files - The Wardens, the magic using Denarians, Shagnasty.
Malazan Series - Annomander Rake, along with many of the other ascendants/gods.
Supernatural - Most of the angels, many of the demons.
Fullmetal Alchemist - The Elric brothers, Izumi Curtis, Alex Louis Armstrong, Scar, May Chang.
Avatar (animated series) - Like, almost every bender. But Zuko and Iroh in particular are capable mundane fighters as well.

[Segev]

I think he meant "You should play a fighter/wizard...except that's [playing a Fighter/Wizard] mechanically sub-optimal", not that Magus is sub-optimal compared to a Fighter/Wizard

More or less this.

If you see a concept that you would play a fighter/wizard to cover, play a magus instead. Because a magus is not going to be nearly as sub-optimal, and will do more and interesting things to combine magic with physical combat.

[Dragvandil]

More or less this.

If you see a concept that you would play a fighter/wizard to cover, play a magus instead. Because a magus is not going to be nearly as sub-optimal, and will do more and interesting things to combine magic with physical combat.

Ooooooh! Sorry for my misunderstanding.

And Ive always heard folks trumpet from the heavens how magi are suboptimal to Fighter/Wizards. Its nice hearing someone say otherwise.

[Vhaidara]

Ooooooh! Sorry for my misunderstanding.

And Ive always heard folks trumpet from the heavens how magi are suboptimal to Fighter/Wizards. Its nice hearing someone say otherwise.

They are.

Fighter/Wizard/Eldritch Knight = Wizard who has a better BAB in exchange for a CL. The spells you use are more about buffs to account for your lower HP pool. If you cast in combat it's no different from a Wizard, and Wizard = best.

Magus = Actual, proper gishing. You use Magic and weapon side by side. Your spells are more focused on damage. Unfortunately, damage = suboptimal. You lack the utility that makes the Wizard amazing.

[Dragvandil]

Ok. ^_^

Apparently I have to lengthen this So yes, proper gish ahoy!

[Snowbluff]

I've always wanted to try hexcrafter, since debuff+attack is my usual schtick, but I already know how to make spells into at-will cantrips. It's a little pointless for me. D:

[Dragvandil]

I was going hexcrafter for RP and for the fly/heals.


But! I just remembered Im also supposed to be tanking with my Magus (He's acctually set up pretty well, we have a Paladin off tank/off heals.) so Im wondering "Do I realllly want to kick Spell recall down the road that far?"