Need a creative way to deal with an out of hand PC.

[StoneCipher]

Hello all!

I'm trying to come up with a way to deal with one of my PCs who instead of roleplaying a character, he roleplays a walking oversized weapon(Goliath+Large Goliath Greathammer). He's usually never too much of an issue technically but now he's found himself on top of the food chain and is bullying the rest of the PCs into insane decisions. I discourage PC vs PC violence and he's always threatening to kill the party members if he doesn't get his way.

Now I know what you're thinking. It would be easy to just kill him with a caster and let that be the end of it. However, he tends to throw a fit if his character is compromised in any way other than a fair melee fight. So the sticking point is, I need to figure out a way to discourage his behavior and publicly embarrass him without making it too overbearing. Some kind of simple quick jab that can remind him that he's in a party with other people and they're of value to him.

Any input is appreciated!

Thanks,

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

Talk to him out of character about how his behavior. Let him know that it's not fun for the rest of the group when he's acting that way. If he insists on dealing with it in-character, then have the BBEG approach his character and offer to hire him for a large sum. Given his character's previous actions he would not refuse, but now this former PC is a lackey of the BBEG and he has to roll a new character. Otherwise only use flying opponents for several adventures, or rust monsters.

[StoneCipher]

Yeah everyone's complained about it already but he doesn't seem to care all that much. But the flying creatures went completely over my head (ba-dum-tss). Seems like a good start to groom him into a respectable PC.

[BaronDoctor]

The classical wisdom is to deal with in character problems in character and out of character problems out of character. You could have the BBEG drop in on the group and hire the character away.

Fluff-wise this seems like a great spot for a Pixie invisible blade with some Confound The Big Folk action with as much sneak attack as you can get. The bigger they are, the harder they fall, right? It's still a direct melee combat, and if he's taking advantage of being enormous thing there are hand to hand ways of taking advantage of that, between IB feint and the moving into the space thing. Sneak attack doesn't care how big you are. Could go all puss in boots with him and make him into a recurring antagonist.

[Gabrosin]

Yeah everyone's complained about it already but he doesn't seem to care all that much. But the flying creatures went completely over my head (ba-dum-tss). Seems like a good start to groom him into a respectable PC.

If the entire party is taking issue with his repeated threats to kill them all, they shouldn't have to continue adventuring with him. Even if he could beat them all in a straight fight, well, they can just leave him a note in the middle of the night and go. Have him continue his RPing solo for a little while, give your other players a few sessions without this player, and then ask them honestly whether they want that player back in the group or not.

[StoneCipher]

I might be able to convince him to let go of his character for a hiring out.

This guy has so much blood on his hands it's preposterous and BBEG might find him useful. I did trick him into murdering like 12 children with his big hammer.

And, while I'd love to have this solved out of character, he always plays the walking weapon. The problem is usually someone in the party is able to kill him as much as he is them, but this time he can squash anyone in the party and is exploiting it.

I did consider the majority rule adventure option, but I just need to get all the PCs united on that one. We're a fairly disorganized group when it comes to getting together and playing.

[sideswipe]

rocks fall...... he dies........ ooops.

on every character till he learns!

im sorry i havent even read the OP at this point and just wanted to add a bit of a comedy solution after just reading the tagline.

have a caster fly around just out of range and harrass him for absolutly no reason. maybe an imp with class levels in wizard, just enough to get spells like grease, mild telekenisis and stuff and just keep it harassing him. if he ever asks why just say "my masters want you to have a taste of what is to come!" if he is being an evil dictator to the party evil dictators go to hell. this will also teach him that things are not just hit with stick = win.

have the imp never harm him, just harass him constantly, no sleep, when walking just trip him. if he ever interacts just have a devil pop by and call him master or sir. he will learn that being manipulated and bullied is unpleasant. and even point this out after a while. have it funny enough that the rest of the party enjoy the antics and they will back you up. it sounds like this guy wont listen to reason.

[Crazysaneman]

Either talk to him aside from the group mano a mano and explain to him what he's doing, get rid of him if he continues dragging down the rest of the group.

That or flying rust monster half dragons with breath weapons, 60' line should work. Or have a few ethereal filchers phase in and grab his hammer and armor then phase out. Or both. That straightened my greatsword fighter real quick.:smallmad:

[Blink Knight]

Hello all!

I'm trying to come up with a way to deal with one of my PCs who instead of roleplaying a character, he roleplays a walking oversized weapon(Goliath+Large Goliath Greathammer). He's usually never too much of an issue technically but now he's found himself on top of the food chain and is bullying the rest of the PCs into insane decisions. I discourage PC vs PC violence and he's always threatening to kill the party members if he doesn't get his way.

Now I know what you're thinking. It would be easy to just kill him with a caster and let that be the end of it. However, he tends to throw a fit if his character is compromised in any way other than a fair melee fight. So the sticking point is, I need to figure out a way to discourage his behavior and publicly embarrass him without making it too overbearing. Some kind of simple quick jab that can remind him that he's in a party with other people and they're of value to him.

Any input is appreciated!

Thanks,

You run an entirely/mostly RAW game? There are so many things that out melee melee characters it's not even funny. Only problem is, HP damage being what it is out meleeing him means killing his character, likely in the surprise round. If he's so out of control that's the only option, give me a character level and I'll give you at least one enemy of the same or lower level that beats him. That said, if he's going on this egocentric PvP kick he's gonna find fault in anything and everything you do that goes against what he wants, regardless of whether his character dies or not.

The best way of humbling him then would be somehow separate him from the party in a way that he's still aware of what they're doing. Seeing they'd be just fine without him might be sufficient. (They would be just fine without him right?)

[Krobar]

They really can't find a way to kill him in his sleep, or poison him, or anything? No illusions to convince him to walk off a cliff, or into a pit filled with green slime, or just handing him the pretty necklace of whatever (strangulation) or putting sovereign glue on his fork so he can't eat anymore?

Seriously. They can kill him if they put some thought into it.

[StoneCipher]

rocks fall...... he dies........ ooops.

on every character till he learns!

im sorry i havent even read the OP at this point and just wanted to add a bit of a comedy solution after just reading the tagline.

have a caster fly around just out of range and harrass him for absolutly no reason. maybe an imp with class levels in wizard, just enough to get spells like grease, mild telekenisis and stuff and just keep it harassing him. if he ever asks why just say "my masters want you to have a taste of what is to come!" if he is being an evil dictator to the party evil dictators go to hell. this will also teach him that things are not just hit with stick = win.

have the imp never harm him, just harass him constantly, no sleep, when walking just trip him. if he ever interacts just have a devil pop by and call him master or sir. he will learn that being manipulated and bullied is unpleasant. and even point this out after a while. have it funny enough that the rest of the party enjoy the antics and they will back you up. it sounds like this guy wont listen to reason.

This reminds me of the time I had an NPC capture a PC playing a Psion and he kept the Psion sleep deprived and chained to the floor and forced him to paint nude portraits of said NPC. Probably one of my proudest PC torture moments. When the Psion escaped he made it a point to explode the guy's head.

As for the party surviving without him, I would adjust the difficulty accordingly. He is usually with a more experienced party but this is a bunch of newbies which is why he may be power grabbing this game.

We are playing mostly RAW but I have custom tweaks here and there such as playing without SR just because these PCs take eons to take their turns and I am trying to cut down on dice rolls for speed's sake. The story and world is entirely custom as well.

I am liking the suggestions so far, I feel like I was walking around with blinders on since some of these seem so obvious now. I've never sold a PC into NPCdom so it is a new avenue for me to explore.

As a side note, the party is level 6.

Fighter- Him
Scout
Cleric
Rogue-With notoriously bad dice rolls
Monk
Barbarian - One of the PCs just rolled up a barb that wields a horn minotaur greathammer for the purpose of ****ing with this troublesome PC so we will see how this one goes.

[Scorponok]

The way I'd deal with it is the next time the PCs have a semi-challenging encounter and he charges the boss guy, have him fall into a pit which had been covered up with a Silent Image and sit out the fight. After the fight, the PCs would have to pull him out but may find out he's too heavy and just leave him.

[Azoth]

Could always make him fight the kung fu kitty if high enough. Tibbit Swordsage who specialized in setting sun throws and stays in cat form 24/7. (Main feats are underfoot combat, confound the big folk, and twinning step)

If he is the power attack charge type, just build an enemy that can defend everything he throws out there and get him with papercut amounts of damage. Even better if the build is highly mobile and in light/no armor.

[JusticeZero]

Just want to say that beating him up doesn't help, because you're still essentially "attacking the group" and kicking it up to fight the one guy. It's encouraging. Just find some reason to get him to go away. The party doesn't like the character, there is zero reason they should keep them around.

[Blink Knight]

This reminds me of the time I had an NPC capture a PC playing a Psion and he kept the Psion sleep deprived and chained to the floor and forced him to paint nude portraits of said NPC. Probably one of my proudest PC torture moments. When the Psion escaped he made it a point to explode the guy's head.

As for the party surviving without him, I would adjust the difficulty accordingly. He is usually with a more experienced party but this is a bunch of newbies which is why he may be power grabbing this game.

We are playing mostly RAW but I have custom tweaks here and there such as playing without SR just because these PCs take eons to take their turns and I am trying to cut down on dice rolls for speed's sake. The story and world is entirely custom as well.

I am liking the suggestions so far, I feel like I was walking around with blinders on since some of these seem so obvious now. I've never sold a PC into NPCdom so it is a new avenue for me to explore.

As a side note, the party is level 6.

Fighter- Him
Scout
Cleric
Rogue-With notoriously bad dice rolls
Monk
Barbarian - One of the PCs just rolled up a barb that wields a horn minotaur greathammer for the purpose of ****ing with this troublesome PC so we will see how this one goes.

Level 6, so probably around 60 HP, 20 or less AC.

Dragonborn Water Orc Barbarian 1/Fighter 2/Ranger 3.

That gives you Pounce, Whirling Frenzy. Hit and Run Fighter. The Ranger could be anything with full BAB but is mostly there for stealth skills. Throw on Bull's Strength and he gets 30 of it, giving him at least +17 to hit and at least 2d6+15 or so per hit. He has 3 attacks, so most likely he lives at very low life or is KOed but not killed. If you want him actually dead use a +1 weapon or PA for 1.

He jumps the annoying guy, beats some sense in him, says something about dishonorable bullies are treated in kind and then unless someone else attacks him he just leaves.

Though again he's gonna complain about anything that goes against him, fair or not. It's unlikely that'd solve the problem short of making him quit the game. Might make everyone feel better though.

[CombatOwl]

Hello all!

I'm trying to come up with a way to deal with one of my PCs who instead of roleplaying a character, he roleplays a walking oversized weapon(Goliath+Large Goliath Greathammer). He's usually never too much of an issue technically but now he's found himself on top of the food chain and is bullying the rest of the PCs into insane decisions. I discourage PC vs PC violence and he's always threatening to kill the party members if he doesn't get his way.

Put them down. Hard. Preferably with kobolds.


Now I know what you're thinking. It would be easy to just kill him with a caster and let that be the end of it. However, he tends to throw a fit if his character is compromised in any way other than a fair melee fight. So the sticking point is, I need to figure out a way to discourage his behavior and publicly embarrass him without making it too overbearing. Some kind of simple quick jab that can remind him that he's in a party with other people and they're of value to him.

I would recommend ragepouncelance or gnomish paladin with a battle ladder if this were pathfinder, but since it's 3.5 I would suggest one of the many stupid dungeoncrasher builds.

[StoneCipher]

Level 6, so probably around 60 HP, 20 or less AC.

Dragonborn Water Orc Barbarian 1/Fighter 2/Ranger 3.

That gives you Pounce, Whirling Frenzy. Hit and Run Fighter. The Ranger could be anything with full BAB but is mostly there for stealth skills. Throw on Bull's Strength and he gets 30 of it, giving him at least +17 to hit and at least 2d6+15 or so per hit. He has 3 attacks, so most likely he lives at very low life or is KOed but not killed. If you want him actually dead use a +1 weapon or PA for 1.

He jumps the annoying guy, beats some sense in him, says something about dishonorable bullies are treated in kind and then unless someone else attacks him he just leaves.

Though again he's gonna complain about anything that goes against him, fair or not. It's unlikely that'd solve the problem short of making him quit the game. Might make everyone feel better though.

This would be especially funny coming from an Orc.

[titans4ever]

You tricked him into killing 12 children. You have tons of outs just from that action right there. Authorities capture him. Hard to bully with a noose around your neck or a long term prison sentence. Have the authorities chasing him and a BBEG give him an ultimatum them or come with me.

Does he have a God he follows? Is he following tenents of god? If not, god demands he change his ways or smites him. God recruits him to become chosen.

Lava is always a slow and funny death. Has he seen a vorpal weapon yet?

This sounds similar to all the treads about rogues who steal from party or withhold treasure etc.


Simplest is have him take first watch solo. When he sleeps everyone else breaks camp and leaves him with nothing. Anything can happen in the wilds.

[Yomega]

So it seems this player is a more experienced player?

If so (and even if not so) casters exist, and you pulling your punches by not having some bookworm 95 year old man make a laughing stock of him because the player doesn't like anything other than face to face, face crushing is a dis service to your game.

This said I would make the fight with the caster well known it is happening, and provide the situation where the problem player is forced to deal with the caster man, while his party is busy with minions or such.

[jjcrpntr]

Now I know what you're thinking. It would be easy to just kill him with a caster and let that be the end of it. However, he tends to throw a fit if his character is compromised in any way other than a fair melee fight. So the sticking point is, I need to figure out a way to discourage his behavior and publicly embarrass him without making it too overbearing. Some kind of simple quick jab that can remind him that he's in a party with other people and they're of value to him.

Any input is appreciated!

Thanks,

I have a PC that is very much like this. It's annoying. It's hard because he's one of my better friends, but I found that I had started to tailor a lot of the game around him but not using certain things, not doing certain things or letting him get his way when he shouldn't. That was new dm mistake #1. I've sort of fixed this by putting my foot down when he gets out of line but also I've killed a few players recently.

This guy believes that any fight that is anything other than he hits monster, monster hits him, repeat, is DM bull****. By killing a few players it's shown him that they are not pretty little snow flakes and that plot armor is off. It's been getting better with him.

One thing I'd say is that it's up to your other players to put their foot down. This guy used to bully people into what they were doing until one of the other players finally said "No I don't want to do that I want to look into this other thing".

[GutterFace]

Everything else is direct. you need to do something is a lasting effect that makes him role-play to get out of it, using his greatest strength against him. his strength.
find a disease to gradually dismantle him. and make the cure (local priest etc) make him perform some acts of good to atone and get cured.

this way he learns to play as part of a team since you can infect him with something that makes him nearly useless (like a Str/Con disease)
as time goes on and as he doesn't play along he will wither

revenge or success. the House always wins

[Blink Knight]

This would be especially funny coming from an Orc.

A Dragonborn Water Orc is itself especially funny given that the tenets of Bahamut could not run more counter to the typical Orc life style.

I wanted a monster to do it but realized all the usual suspects would either be not pure melee or higher than level 6 after adding class levels. That and less reason to not bother anyone else.

Edit: If not for the fact few gishes function below level 6 I'd have a little old goblin or something turn into a giant monster and smack him around. Or just Heroics (Knockback, Power Attack) + Polymorph (something Large) + SPARTA!

[Hazrond]

Could always make him fight the kung fu kitty if high enough. Tibbit Swordsage who specialized in setting sun throws and stays in cat form 24/7. (Main feats are underfoot combat, confound the big folk, and twinning step)

this build sounds amazing, i love tibbits :smallbiggrin:

[jordan.k93]

Improved Sunder. On a large creature with a lot of STR.

Say, Ettin, Hill Giant, Ogre, that sorta thing sees his buddy get pulverized, wants to disable the character, and this particular Giant has Improved Sunder.

After the battle, no smiths around have a large enough foundry available to craft such an enormous chunk of metal, tough luck, how unfortunate.

[Bullet06320]

im in favor of the law coming after him, he did kill 12 kiddies, it also makes the other pc's make a choice, side with the party dictator or the law, regardless it would add interesting roleplaying to the group
and with him smashing killing stuff, he would be building a reputation, it wouldn't be unreasonable for someone to show up that thinks he's better and challenge him to a duel of sorts
and I also like the ideas posted above about the BBEG trying to hire him, or devils trying to recruit him

ultimately, the pc's actions should dictate NPC's reactions

[thatryanguy]

12 small sized shadows come after him, with their incoporealness and their str-draining touch attacks.

[StoneCipher]

12 small sized shadows come after him, with their incoporealness and their str-draining touch attacks.

I should feel ashamed that I didn't think of this.

The children did die in a horrific manner, tossed in a basement with the PCs where the darkness spell engulfed the room. The children were gagged and someone was casting ghost sounds to make it sound like zombies were in the room. So, the PC did what he did best. Smashed anything that came near him. His Earth Sense assisted this.

[thatryanguy]

Bonus points if you can convince him they're all part of an illusion. Each one he kills leaves behind the illusory smashed body of a loved one or something. Maybe one of the childrens' fathers was a mindreading illusionist or the likes. Mental trauma is always fun.

[StoneCipher]

Bonus points if you can convince him they're all part of an illusion. Each one he kills leaves behind the illusory smashed body of a loved one or something. Maybe one of the childrens' fathers was a mindreading illusionist or the likes. Mental trauma is always fun.

This might work if this character had some sort of remorse. After it was revealed that he killed a bunch of children he just said "Oh, oh well."

[Segev]

OOC, tell him to knock it off, and if needs be ("it's what he would do!") to make a new character. Offer the "hired by the BBEG" out to get his current one out of the party. This is being a bad PLAYER, not a bad PC.

That he throws a fit if his character is "compromised" in anything but a melee fight should be replied to by asking him if he thinks it fair to engage the wizard in a melee fight rather than a "fair magical duel." "You can only attack me where I'm strongest," is basically saying, "Only I'm allowed to win."

Again, this is an OOC issue. Point out that he built a character with weaknesses, and it's as fair to exploit those as it is for him to attack those weak in melee combat with his melee powerhouse.

But most of all, tell him to knock off the PvP, and that if he can't play a character who gets along with the party without bullying them in ways that make the game unfun for the rest of the players, he should find a game and group more amenable to his style of play.

[RolkFlameraven]

All I can say is I'm shocked the Rogue or someone hasn't just Coup de graced his ass while sleeping if he is acting like this and has shown no remorse for killing those kids. After that I would take any threat of violence directed at me as very real and take steps and that has the best chance of him being dead and me being alive at the end of it, hell I might just buy a pick or scythe just to make damn sure he I dead and see if I couldn't get some GP for his head back in that town as I'm sure one of those kids had somewhat well to do parents.

I might need to disguise myself as they might be after me too after something like that but it would be worth it and might get a good bit of the heat off of me and my real friends.

May I ask what this guys alignment is supposed to be? Showing no remorse should have been one heck of a shift I would think.

[StoneCipher]

I believe it is Chaotic Neutral or something. I usually don't force alignment changes, since they rarely come into play for us anyways, but I've come to the decision that the next time he does something remotely evil I'm pushing it to CE.

[Red Fel]

I believe it is Chaotic Neutral or something. I usually don't force alignment changes, since they rarely come into play for us anyways, but I've come to the decision that the next time he does something remotely evil I'm pushing it to CE.

That's fair. Frankly, I'm amazed you haven't done so sooner.

My question is: How will that change anything? From what you describe, this is a character who says "Oh, oh well" after slaughtering a dozen children. Telling him you've swapped an N with an E on his character sheet will do... What, exactly? Elicit the same response?

Talk to him out of character. Be clear and firm - it ends, now. No backchat, no pleading, no nothing.

Have your next adventure take you to a graveyard. See to it that he destroys something. Could be a grave. Could be an innocent-looking child-like undead. Could be an urn. Given the chance, you know what he does. Make sure he has the chance. Then have him make a Will save. Don't tell him the DC, but make it a high one. If he fails, tell him simply that a chill runs down his spine. You don't need to tell him (he'll figure it out soon enough), but he is now subject to a curse.

Every night, he has to make another Will save. More reasonable DC this time. If he fails, horrifying nightmares keep him up at night, and he is exhausted (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/conditionSummary.htm#exhausted) the next day. (For a beatstick, that is crippling.)

Additionally, keep track of his acts of evil. If they continue, describe the faces of the murdered children appearing in his nightmare. First one, then two, then four, and so forth. Each nightmare, so long as he keeps being naughty, more of them. Perhaps have them warn him that he has been naughty, and must be punished. And then, if he keeps it up, they look angry. Creepy child-ghost angry. Which is seriously creepy.

Then do what was described earlier, with the Shadows. Dead beatstick in short order. Curses are pretty brutal like that.

If he complains, lay it all out for him. You warned them there would be consequences. You warned him in his dreams he would be punished. You gave him opportunities to clean up his act. And now his PC is a corpse. Have him roll a new one, and remind him that the same rules apply. If he throws a fit, remind him that the character is not coming back, so if he wants to keep playing, new character. If he makes trouble with the new character, ask him if he would like to start making more Will saves. And smile.

A smiling DM is nature's way of telling you that something bad is going to happen.

It boils down to your willingness to be brutal. At the end of the day, if he doesn't change, you must be willing to bring the hammer down, despite his readiness to "throw a fit if his character is compromised in any way other than a fair melee fight." Enemies don't play fair. Particularly the angry ghosts of murdered children. If he doesn't like it, he can find another game.

[Hazrond]

-snip-

And Red Fel brings the hammer DOWN folks! :smallbiggrin:

[bjoern]

The children ghosts and curse are great ideas. When I played beat sticks I always hated losing my gear . Have a head hunter after him as a gnome or something flying mage, always invisible. Summoning rust monsters to always strip him of his gear. forcing him to always stay awake so hes exhausted or losing his gear in his sleep all the time. Then when he doesn't have any gear, have a no gear giant reaping mauler or something just pwn him in unarmed grapple. That is the purest form of melee right?

[StoneCipher]

Yeah, given that he would have ample warning I believe that sort of solution would work perfectly. He was killed by a deck of many things in another campaign so as long as he knows the risks he is okay with dying in a certain way. He just doesn't like when he gets killed by some random event like a caster popping out of the shadows and blasting him when he can do nothing in return.

[Tindragon]

Yeah, given that he would have ample warning I believe that sort of solution would work perfectly. He was killed by a deck of many things in another campaign so as long as he knows the risks he is okay with dying in a certain way. He just doesn't like when he gets killed by some random event like a caster popping out of the shadows and blasting him when he can do nothing in return.

It's D&D, it's fantasy. It doesn't sound like the character is the problem, it's the player.

I have had a couple like this over the years, talk to him before next session, email, call whatever. Tell him to knock it off, or find another group. If all your other players dislike his play style, they'll quit if he doesn't. Killing off the character, or 'teaching him a lesson" in game will just ad a chip to his shoulder in the future. It doesn't solve the root problem of a player with a poor attitude.

I actually did remove a player in mid game. He was a a friend of a friend, and within 2 sessions the whole group was tire of their combined crap, I talked to both, the regular player settled, the other guy got worse, in game, and just at the table. I stopped, looked at, and told him to get out and never come back (he had gone so far as to fall asleep at the table because he was bored we weren't killing things and leveling 2-3 times a session).

[Red Fel]

Yeah, given that he would have ample warning I believe that sort of solution would work perfectly. He was killed by a deck of many things in another campaign so as long as he knows the risks he is okay with dying in a certain way. He just doesn't like when he gets killed by some random event like a caster popping out of the shadows and blasting him when he can do nothing in return.

See, that's what I mean. DM fiat doesn't have to actually feel like fiat. Give him a chance. Let him know what's coming. If he doesn't try to avoid it, he's asking for it.

This is classic Greek tragedy writ large. The tragic hero is always a victim of his own actions, not someone else's. There's a word, anagnorisis, that represents the realization a tragic hero experiences when he comes to understand the truth of his circumstances. This usually happens right before the hammer comes down.

Give him that. It won't just be a punishment - although it will be that, too. It will be a consequence, one of his own device. One which is foreseeable in advance, and understandable in retrospect. One that gives him the chance, for just a moment, to be a Greek tragic hero. Don't be afraid to give him those few minutes of spotlight. Yes, you're giving him the spotlight so that the party can see his character get torn apart by vengeful spirits, but for just a moment, the stage lights dim, except for a single lamp which shines down on the horrified protagonist as his eyes are fully open to his awful situation. (Eat your hearts out, Gilbert & Sullivan.)

In a way, that softens the blow. End of the day, dead is still dead, but it doesn't have to be quite so abrupt.

[StoneCipher]

As a side note, the reason why I am playing this delicately is because we host it at his place since he has the most table space, and we are all good friends. We've tried dealing with it OOC before but he just does what he does. He's a very stubborn and boorish person all around. This is why I am trying to make such an elaborate point to him so that he comes to a conclusion himself instead of us telling him what to do.

[Segev]

I'm not sure that approaching it as an IC beatdown will make him come to any conclusion other than "the other guy didn't do it fair and square, so I'm mad," just as he would if he got hit with a Dominate or other effect to which he's weak that isn't "fair melee combat."

You should find an alternate venue, because him hosting the game is not going to work if he's bullying everybody else. I halfway wonder if he's really "good friends" if he's boorish and mean to you all all the time out of game. But that's your decision to make; I do not know the situation nearly well enough to do more than speculate.

What is it you want him to realize "on his own?"

[jedipotter]

Now I know what you're thinking. It would be easy to just kill him with a caster and let that be the end of it. However, he tends to throw a fit if his character is compromised in any way other than a fair melee fight. So the sticking point is, I need to figure out a way to discourage his behavior and publicly embarrass him without making it too overbearing. Some kind of simple quick jab that can remind him that he's in a party with other people and they're of value to him.

I strongly dislike OOC. If a player acts like this, I just consider them ''not worth talking too''. After all if the player has a brain they should see what they are doing. So if they don't then it is because they don't care, don't want to, or are just hopeless. Either way taking to them is pointless. You might as well talk to a wall.

I wonder why you care if the player throws a fit? Let him? Let him throw fits around all the live long day. Get some popcorn and sit back and laugh at him as he does so. What is the point of walking on egg shells around him?

Sure you want to knock him down a peg. But be nice about it? You want to have an After School Special Very Special episode where you like wave and he suddenly collapses into tears, hugs your knee and begs forgiveness as he had no idea what he was doing. Please....

In my game, I'd just kill off his character. My game is deadly enough that I can do it any time. At like my ''normal'' level i have things like ''inside the cave you see a skull floating in mid air'', and all too often a player will say ''Oh, dur, my character goes over and touches the skull and searches for loot!'' And then i can say ''Oh the death effect kills your character...'' And that is ''normal'', so by ''going up to 11'' I can kill a character no problem in a couple minutes.

[StoneCipher]

I'm not sure that approaching it as an IC beatdown will make him come to any conclusion other than "the other guy didn't do it fair and square, so I'm mad," just as he would if he got hit with a Dominate or other effect to which he's weak that isn't "fair melee combat."

You should find an alternate venue, because him hosting the game is not going to work if he's bullying everybody else. I halfway wonder if he's really "good friends" if he's boorish and mean to you all all the time out of game. But that's your decision to make; I do not know the situation nearly well enough to do more than speculate.

What is it you want him to realize "on his own?"

Well he's a good friend, just not a good player. He bullies the PCs but not us.

As for on his own, he's one of those people that if you tell him to do something he defies it on principal but if he comes to that direction with his own devices, he will do it because he came up with it, not because you told him to do/not do it.

So, in effect, I have to play mind games with him a bit.

[prufock]

There are two ways to handle it.

In-character: With the other players, create an optimized plan for how they can beat him down. Strip him of his gear, tie him up, and make sure he knows that the next time they wont stop there. Dont stand for bullying.

Out-of-character: Let him know he's being a jerk, and either to quit it or quit the game. Game at someone else's place.

[the clumsy bard]

Well he's a good friend, just not a good player. He bullies the PCs but not us.

As for on his own, he's one of those people that if you tell him to do something he defies it on principal but if he comes to that direction with his own devices, he will do it because he came up with it, not because you told him to do/not do it.

So, in effect, I have to play mind games with him a bit.

Ok.... well perhaps suggest to the other players that they hold their actions the next time combat arises?

It seems childish, but if I was being bossed around by someone who is "great in combat" I would probably let them go to town the next combat by themselves. Emphasis on "themselves".

I don't know the exacts on the campaign, but as a level 6 fighter... let him rush in when they come across a troll and just don't let it be known that said troll happens to have a few character levels and is actually a bounty hunter paid off by the dead parents of the children looking for him.

Heck even if this is known as another player I might just sit by and be like hey this isn't my fight.

[OldTrees1]

He is detracting from the fun of everyone else and continues to do so despite knowing that he is making it no fun for the other players.

Double check that he realized how harmful he is being. If he does not repent, kick him out. If he repents, give him a second chance.

[Tindragon]

As a side note, the reason why I am playing this delicately is because we host it at his place since he has the most table space, and we are all good friends. We've tried dealing with it OOC before but he just does what he does. He's a very stubborn and boorish person all around. This is why I am trying to make such an elaborate point to him so that he comes to a conclusion himself instead of us telling him what to do.


Well he's a good friend, just not a good player. He bullies the PCs but not us.

As for on his own, he's one of those people that if you tell him to do something he defies it on principal but if he comes to that direction with his own devices, he will do it because he came up with it, not because you told him to do/not do it.

So, in effect, I have to play mind games with him a bit.

Sounds like he is bullying you, he's just playing mind games on you using his 'in character' persona with the ooc venue to get his way. I highlighted above for this reason.

My final suggestion, take the hit on space and change venues if need be. Experience tells me his attitude will change, or he'll stop playing (take his ball and go home mentality)

It's meant to be fun for all, good luck.

[Shining Wrath]

A variation on "rocks fall" occurs to my INT=3 mind.

Pit opens, Goliath finds himself in a pit too deep to jump out of and too slick to climb, and with no room to swing that giant hammer of his.

Enter horde of rats.

And then the rest of the party can discuss his manners with him, in character, as he takes 24*(1D4-2) points of damage each round from being nibbled.

[Segev]

Here's the thing: he's not just bullying IC; if he throws a tantrum OOC when his character is beaten in any way other than one of which he "approves," he's bullying OOC, too.

If you really must handle this IC, do it thusly: tell the whole table that you're either gonig to allow PvP without the DM interfering at all, or you're not going to allow it at all. If you don't allow it at all, this means that under no circumstances will you permit a character under a player's control to attack or otherwise deliberately use their powers, skills, or abilities against another character under a player's control. So no matter how much somebody threatens, everybody can freely ignore their threats as worthless. If you allow it, all is fair. Whatever a player wishes to do, they may, whether it's in melee combat or through other techniques (such as pickpocketing, reporting to authorities, using magic, murder-of-sleeping-targets-while-on-watch, or whatever).

Then have them vote. If they vote for PvP, remind them that they can retaliate IC if they feel they're being picked on with threats. If they vote for no PvP, remind them when the bullying starts that he can't actually act on it.

[Magesmiley]

One that I haven't seen suggested yet is having something bigger bull rush him into a spot that he can't get out of without help. A convenient deep pool, lake, or river might work best. Put a nasty swimming monster in there too so he has something to fight sand exert himself so his oxygen supply runs low faster. I'll bet his swim skill modifier is pretty low. Make sure that you're familiar with the rules for underwater combat.

Disarm, particularly if it makes it possible to send his hammer somewhere he can't get it might be mean.

How is his balance check? Fighting on marbles, oil, or ice might bring him down a few notches when he keeps falling down. A battle on a rope bridge might work too (possibly combine this with the above disarm suggestion).

How about giving him an opponent who is evenly matched who also has aides that buff the NPC up (so that the only way the character is going to survive is if his friends help him). You might even try to make this into some sort of a duel where the combatants can be buffed beforehand but not once the fight starts.

I'm feeling evil... how about having an opponent cast enlarge person on him when he's standing on something that can't support his enlarged weight (remember it goes up by 8x). Dropping a potion of enlarge person into his possession shortly before the encounter might even get the PC to do it to himself.

Oozes. Particularly ones that extrude acid and destroy weapons. A standup melee fight with one of these is almost always a losing proposition.

Something with the Swallow Whole ability. No room to use the big hammer from inside. Similarly, if the party has to move through an area of confined space (squeezing), there may not be room to swing the big hammer.

[Slayah]

I say Mirror of opposition him (or possibly the whole party). If he just so happens to die due to some strange improbably circumstance the remaining oposition clone acts sugar sweet and cordial to the party. The player sits by, confused and bewildered by his sudden relegation to NPC status.