Best melee for awful party

[Naanomi]

As a backup option for our main campaign (while two players are in Europe), a few of us are going to play in the same 'campaign world' as a party full of junky classes. No hard-and-fast rules, but the general idea is to choose a garbage class and stick with it, only taking prestige classes that don't expand much beyond the established power level (and no 'dual advancement', even if advancing two bad classes).

We have a True-Namer, a Healer, and a (CW) Ninja; but were looking for a good (bad) 'melee/tank' for our fourth. Things that were bandied about were Soulborn, Soulknife, Divine Mind, and Dragon Shaman.

Two questions: First, which of these might be the best 'fit' for the melee role in such a party? Secondly, do any of these classes stand out as being unbalancing (within the confines we have laid out); there was some concern that the Ninja was going to outshine everyone. I'm not to familiar with the 'tier system' and how it compares such things.

Thoughts?

[Fax Celestis]

You should play a non-typically melee class as melee. Like...stalwart battle sorcerer. Or dragon fire adept.

[Vhaidara]

Wait, what is (CW) Ninja? CW is usually Complete Warrior, which did not feature the Ninja, it featured the Samurai. Ninja was in Complete Adventurer.

If it is a Ninja, then I recommend Complete Warrior Samurai. Soulborn is another good (bad) option.

[With a box]

plain fighter in PHB?

[Metahuman1]

plain fighter in PHB?

Or monk. Or Paladin. Or a PHB 2 Knight. Or a Hex Blade. Or a straight class twf ranger. Or a Swashbuckler.

[deuxhero]

Dragon Shaman has some cool tricks, it's just not supported very well like 99% of non-core classes in 3.5 (Psionic classes and Warlocks are pretty much the only ones that were explicitly supported with any decent frequency) and suffers in versatility for it.

There's a feat in one of the online articles that lets them take Warlock invocations stuff and worth having handy, but don't know which it is in.
Wait that's a Dragonfire Adept I'm thinking of (which is an interesting pick if legal).


I think the coolest option would be to not take a class at all, and instead pick a monster and only advance the RHD. Ambush Drake 7/Dragon 13 is playable.

[StoneCipher]

You could do a half-orc fighter that eventually takes levels in menacing brute.

http://dndtools.eu/classes/menacing-brute/

Or better yet, Thug instead of fighter

http://dndtools.eu/classes/thug/

[Thiyr]

I'm suddenly reminded of the CE Tibbit Soulborn. Strength penalty? What's that? -omnomnom flesh-

[Naanomi]

Wait, what is (CW) Ninja? CW is usually Complete Warrior, which did not feature the Ninja, it featured the Samurai. Ninja was in Complete Adventurer.

If it is a Ninja, then I recommend Complete Warrior Samurai. Soulborn is another good (bad) option.

Yeah sorry, (CA) Ninja is what I meant; serving as skill-monkey and probably our best damage source.

As for the suggestions, I would suspect Dragon-Fire Adept would be too strong compared to the other members of the party; as would a sorcerer (even the stalwart/battle variety)

[Dimers]

We have a True-Namer, a Healer, and a (CW) Ninja; but were looking for a good (bad) 'melee/tank' for our fourth. Things that were bandied about were Soulborn, Soulknife, Divine Mind, and Dragon Shaman. Two questions: First, which of these might be the best 'fit' for the melee role in such a party?

You could add Vow of Poverty to a better class, too -- I think VoP barbarian should do the trick. If you're asking strictly among those listed, Divine Mind might actually be too weak because part of its shtick is whole-party benefits, which those other party members could barely use. I'd take Dragon Shaman for weak AoE.


You could do a half-orc fighter that eventually takes levels in menacing brute. Or better yet, Thug instead of fighter.

Also a fine choice for VoP. Tons of feats and holy intimidation! Deals a few points of damage a round!


Secondly, do any of these classes stand out as being unbalancing (within the confines we have laid out); there was some concern that the Ninja was going to outshine everyone.

Looks about right to me. The truenamer and healer have more potential, though if played badly they'll probably look worse than the ninja.

[Fax Celestis]

Can you play NPC classes? You could play an Expert.

[Naanomi]

You could do a half-orc fighter that eventually takes levels in menacing brute.
Half-Orc Paragon into Orc Paragon into Menecing Brute? Might be viable... Fighter itself might be too above the power curve, especially in early levels

[iTreeby]

Can you play NPC classes? You could play an Expert.

Warrior/expert into Kensai!

[StoneCipher]

Half-Orc Paragon into Orc Paragon into Menecing Brute? Might be viable... Fighter itself might be too above the power curve, especially in early levels

Not if you blow your feats on useless things.

[Naanomi]

Not if you blow your feats on useless things.
True, but by and large we are going to be doing some optimization within the guidelines of the bad classes we are playing. The intent isn't to make bad characters per-se, but suboptimal (to a huge degree) class choices and work with what we have to try and be successful.

[Hand_of_Vecna]

You could try something that never sees play like Sohei from oriental adventures.

[gooddragon1]

I think you need to play a monk. But it might make you mad.

-They can heal themselves
-Two sources to AC
-All good saves with evasion added
-Natural SR

[Cowardly Griffo]

Dragon Compendium's Battle Dancer or Dragonlance's Noble, maybe?

[gorfnab]

Marshal (MH) might make for an okay tank option. Otherwise maybe take a look into Savage Species for a monstrous creature that might make a decent tank.

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

I'd say go this Paladin (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?275093-its-a-villain-sort-of#5) or similar.

[Kennisiou]

"Bad" melee tank? Intimidation spec'd Samurai with imperious command. Forreal. You have heavy armor, intimidation to create battlefield control/debuffs, and your class features make intimidation a lot stronger than it is for other classes, putting you above other intimidation-based fear builds like Intimidate Hexblade or Barbarian. You can even be an ubercharger on top of that if you'd like, dual-wielding your katana instead of single wielding it. Granted it's not as powerful an ubercharge intimidator as Hexblade or Barb (better at intimidation, worse at everything else) but far from bad.

[Sir Chuckles]

Commoner/Survivor with the Militia feat, attempt to get into Kensai.

[nedz]

Knight or Aristocrat — both are pretty similar from a RP pov.

[Amphetryon]

Half-Orc Paragon into Orc Paragon into Menecing Brute? Might be viable...

I was going to suggest this, with Outcast Champion as a follow-up to Menacing Brute (it's in the same book). This gives you a few levels to play around with afterwards, assuming the game goes that far.

[CombatOwl]

As a backup option for our main campaign (while two players are in Europe), a few of us are going to play in the same 'campaign world' as a party full of junky classes. No hard-and-fast rules, but the general idea is to choose a garbage class and stick with it, only taking prestige classes that don't expand much beyond the established power level (and no 'dual advancement', even if advancing two bad classes).

We have a True-Namer, a Healer, and a (CW) Ninja; but were looking for a good (bad) 'melee/tank' for our fourth. Things that were bandied about were Soulborn, Soulknife, Divine Mind, and Dragon Shaman.

PHB fighter, take no feats other than fleet.

[ComaVision]

The Knight class from PHBII actually is a tank in the tradtional RPG sense. They can actually hold "aggro." They're pretty terrible too, so I don't think you'd be out-classing anyone. Go sword'n'board style for extra trash.

[CommandTortoise]

Summoning things to fight for you is like melee and battlefield control is like tanking so what about Commoner so that you have access to Summon Chicken and Wall of Chicken (also Summon Orcus but that one's not as helpful.)

On that topic (and being a little bit more serious) doesn't Divine Mind get some sort of summoning ACF? Ectopic Ally? At the very least, it lets you do the 'throw the tank to the wolves while everyone else runs' stratagem more than once. I can't tell if it'd be too strong or too weak though.

[Naanomi]

In the end, player decided Divine Mind.

Party consist of:
~Illumine Truenamer
~Silverbrow Human Divine Mind
~Human Healer OR Azurin Soulborn (some concern that Special Mount may be too strong at mid levels on the healer...)
~Kobold Ninja

... Wish us luck...