Can I give a skeleton feats?

[umbral_slayer]

I've raised a skeleton with 15 HD and was wondering, if I were to use awaken undead to give it an int score would it get feats or skill points appropriate for its HD?

The skeleton is human and was a random npc.

[umbral_slayer]

Nevermind. It says so in the description for awaken undead.

[Fax Celestis]

If you got rid of it's mindlessness (awakening it would suffice), it would immediately gain feats according to it's Hit Dice. And skill points for that matter.

[Jeraa]

I've raised a skeleton with 15 HD and was wondering, if I were to use awaken undead to give it an int score would it get feats or skill points appropriate for its HD?

The skeleton is human and was a random npc.

Assuming you used Animate Dead, the skeleton is not 15 hit dice. All hit dice from class levels are lost (along with everything else granted by class) - only racial hit dice remain, so human skeletons only have 1 hit die. Regardless of how many class levels they had in life.

[Zombimode]

I've raised a skeleton with 15 HD and was wondering, if I were to use awaken undead to give it an int score would it get feats or skill points appropriate for its HD?

The skeleton is human and was a random npc.

If you "raised" the remains of a humanoid with class levels and the result is something other then skeleton with the minimum HD for a typical member of the species, then it's not a Skeleton. You have probably used (Greater) Create Undead and you are looking at a Bone Creature. A Bone Creature retains its class levels and feats and skills (and its int score).

As with all undead created by the Create Undead spell, the Bone Creature is not under your control.

[Vaz]

If you got rid of it's mindlessness (awakening it would suffice), it would immediately gain feats according to it's Hit Dice. And skill points for that matter.

I don't think there's anything regarding retroactive gaining of feats or skills.

[Fax Celestis]

I don't think there's anything regarding retroactive gaining of feats or skills.


Feat Acquisition and Ability Score Increases
A monster’s total Hit Dice, not its ECL, govern its acquisition of feats and ability score increases.
http://www.d20srd.org/srd/improvingMonsters.htm


Intelligence
Any creature that can think, learn, or remember has at least 1 point of Intelligence. A creature with no Intelligence score is mindless, an automaton operating on simple instincts or programmed instructions. It has immunity to mind-affecting effects (charms, compulsions, phantasms, patterns, and morale effects) and automatically fails Intelligence checks.

Mindless creatures do not gain feats or skills, although they may have bonus feats or racial skill bonuses.
http://www.d20srd.org/srd/specialAbilities.htm#nonabilities

A creature with an INT score therefore has skills and feats as governed by its total number of HD, regardless of whether or not that creature was ever mindless.

[Vaz]

You only gain feats when you level up though. Becoming mindless means you lose those feats, nothing about gaining the ones you had back in life.

[Fax Celestis]

That's because you don't gain back any you had in life: you just have feats according to your HD.

[Vaz]

Nowhere does it say that. Just because you have awoken it doesn't mean that you get feats. The only time you get feats ins when you level up, or it states otherwise - such as bonus feats.

The improving monsters link only refers to increasing HD.,, which you haven't done.

A Human Fighter 4 has 1 feat from ECL 1 and ECL 2, 1 from Human and 3 from Fighter. These are all lost thanks to the Template.

You awaken it, you gain Intelligence, plus the other things which are mentioned, none of which include feats.

[Jeraa]

Awaken Undead specifically says the undead does not regain skills and feats.


This spell grants intelligence to mindless undead such as skeletons and zombies. Undead with Intelligence scores are unaffected. Mindless undead within the radius gain Intelligence 4+1d6. Undead cannot gain more intelligence than typical of their original kind. A skeletal dog simply has Intelligence 2, while a skeletal orc makes the die roll but can’t have more than Intelligence 8. Undead do not regain any skills or feats they had in life.

However, nothing would stop them from gaining new skills and feats. They just don't regain any skills and feats they lost.

[Vorandril]

Fax is correct.

Let's say you make a Hydra Zombie. A standard zombie would not get any feats due to being dumber than a sack of nails.
Once you give it some Int? It gets feats due to the large number of HD it has as an awakened zombie. Not from being a hydra.
Only certain types of undead retain traits from before their death, most others get feats as a way of mechanically reinforcing their transformation into life-hating abominations.

[Vaz]

Where does it say that, Fax/Vorandril?

You normally gain feats when yu level up. You lose those already gained by levelling due to skeleton. You awaken it, you do not regain those feats.

No other mention is made of getting feats, so you cannot get them.

You can however, learn new feats at the appropriate level up points.

[Fax Celestis]

Where does it say that, Fax/Vorandril?

You normally gain feats when yu level up. You lose those already gained by levelling due to skeleton. You awaken it, you do not regain those feats.

No other mention is made of getting feats, so you cannot get them.

You can however, learn new feats at the appropriate level up points.

Awaken undead:

Awakened undead do not regain any skills, feats, or extraordinary abilities they had in life, but they do gain skill points ([4 + Int mod] x HD) and feats (one for first Hit Die, one for each three HD thereafter) normally after being awakened.

[Jeraa]

I guess it depends on which version of Awaken Undead you are using. Libris Mortis prohibits it:


This spell grants intelligence to mindless undead such as skeletons and zombies. Undead with Intelligence scores are unaffected. Mindless undead within the radius gain Intelligence 4+1d6. Undead cannot gain more intelligence than typical of their original kind. A skeletal dog simply has Intelligence 2, while a skeletal orc makes the die roll but can’t have more than Intelligence 8.0 Undead do not regain any skills or feats they had in life.

While the Spell Compendium allows it:


This spell grants intelligence to mindless undead such as skeletons and zombies. Undead creatures with Intelligence scores are unaffected. A mindless undead gains an Intelligence score of 1d6+4, subject to the limitation that an undead cannot be more intelligent than is typical of a living creature of the same kind. A dog skeleton simply has Intelligence 2 (no roll needed), while an orc skeleton makes the die roll but can’t have more than Intelligence 8. (See MM 290 for information on skills and feats the creature gains.)

Fax, where did you find this one:


Awakened undead do not regain any skills, feats, or extraordinary abilities they had in life, but they do gain skill points ([4 + Int mod] x HD) and feats (one for first Hit Die, one for each three HD thereafter) normally after being awakened.

I can't find any version of Awaken Undead that states it like this. Edit: Never mind. Its in Savage Species.

The Savage Species version is overwitten by the Libris Mortis version, which is itself overwritten by the Spell Compendium version. (The most recent reprint is the correct one.)

[Fax Celestis]

Spell Compendium explicitly is an update to existing material (ie: Libris Mortis), so that version should be used anyway. It still supports what I'm saying.

MM 290 correlates to this section: http://www.d20srd.org/srd/improvingMonsters.htm

[Vorandril]

Besides, we're not saying that it regains the feats they had when alive. They get new feats based on their hit dice, picked after death and awakening.

[Vaz]

Considering that the improving monsters is in regards to increasing HD, that quote isn't really applicable.

An Awakened Skeleton normally gains feats whenever it gains a level.


Feat Acquisition and Ability Score Increases: A monster’s total Hit Dice, not its ECL, govern its acquisition of feats and ability score increases. For example, a 1st-level minotaur barbarian has a total of 7 HD. It has three feats (for its 1st, 3rd, and 6th HD). When it gains 2nd level as a barbarian, it becomes a creature of 8 Hit Dice and improves one ability score by 1 point. When it adds its 3rd level of barbarian, the minotaur becomes a creature of 9 Hit Dice and gains its fourth feat.

A 5th level Skeleton Warrior has 1 feat. When Awakened, it has 1 feat, but has the intelligence to gain new feats.

http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=10671648&postcount=3

This is Curmudgeon's view for what it's worth. Not that he's infallible, but is logical, and can back up that opinion with quotes.