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Angafirith
2007-03-04, 07:35 PM
I'm having some trouble understanding the rules for distributing treasure. My playing group consists of 3 people and all of us are new to the game. The amount of treasure we received seemed rather high to me, as it was our first encounter. I'm not really experienced with D&D or the value of a gold piece, so I thought that I'd post what I did here.

I started off with an encounter against a group of 5 goblins. We defeated the goblins and I looked at the table on page 3-5. I figured that the group of 5 goblins (each CR 1/3) would come out to an EL of 2. I rolled a d100 for Coins, Goods, and Items as per the chart on page 52 of the version 3.5 DMG. I rolled a 99 and two low rolls. This came out to 2d8x10 pp with no goods or items. When I did the dice rolls, it came out to 50 platinum pieces. Were these goblins carrying their children's college tuition with them or something? Is 50 platinum less than it sounds?

Did I assign the right amount of treasure?

TheOOB
2007-03-04, 07:40 PM
50 platinum is only 500gp, a little more then the cost of a masterwork weapon.

Most good GMs don't acually have their little monster minions holds all the treasure they roll, but rather add it to a stash.

For example, if a cave has 10 goblins in it, rather then have each one carry a seprate treasure you'd get all the treasure after you clear out the cave in a locked chest or something.

JellyPooga
2007-03-04, 08:08 PM
"Only 500gp" you say?

You do know that that is a small fortune don't you? Living frugally, you could live for several years on that and you expect a group of 5 goblins of bog-standardness to be carryingthat kind of loot? What fantasy world do you come from?:smallconfused:

Sorry for being so agressive :smalltongue: but 50pp does seem a little high for 5 goblins.

I would certainly take a good second and third look at the tables and make sure you've got it right Angafirith. I don't have the DMG, so I can't clarify anything for you, but I can almost certainly say that that is a lot for that kind of encounter. You're looking at a couple of gold, a few silver and some copper in actual currency and maybe a MW weapon or something of similar value (if you're lucky).

TheOOB
2007-03-04, 08:13 PM
500gp is a lot for a couple goblins, but it's pocket change for even low level adventurers. Remember in D&D the players work on an economy outside the normal world, an economy where getting a slightly better weapon costs enough to feed a third world country for a month.

JellyPooga
2007-03-04, 08:22 PM
Well yeah, but it's still a lot for a couple of goblins. Just because the adventurers spend a small fortune on everything, doesn't mean that everything they kill is going to cater for their rather expensive habits (living in pricey inns, getting drunk all the time in town, frequenting brothels, buying new weapons/armour/magic items) in how much money they have.

Goblin 1: "Hey Bob, how much gold you got on you?"
Goblin 2: "Well, we're expecting some bloody heroes today, so I had to go and draw my life savings."
Goblin 1: "Ah crap! Really? Hold the fort, I'll just go find that bauble I picked up a few weeks ago..."

Variable Arcana
2007-03-04, 08:27 PM
Assuming you've got the amounts right... one way to handle this is to keep a secret ledger of the total treasure the party has earned, and then lump it in a haul that makes sense, down the road.

((Looking in the DMG, I find two things:
1) the typical treasure for an EL:2 is 600 gp (Table 3-3.)
2) "As you write an adventure, it's okay to combine the individual treasures listed for each monster into one larger hoard."))

I strongly agree with your sense that a small band of goblins would never be carrying around 100 gp each in cash, except under very special circumstances. On the other hand... one might have a masterwork weapon...

mikeejimbo
2007-03-04, 08:28 PM
Well yeah, but it's still a lot for a couple of goblins. Just because the adventurers spend a small fortune on everything, doesn't mean that everything they kill is going to cater for their rather expensive habits (living in pricey inns, getting drunk all the time in town, frequenting brothels, buying new weapons/armour/magic items) in how much money they have.

Goblin 1: "Hey Bob, how much gold you got on you?"
Goblin 2: "Well, we're expecting some bloody heroes today, so I had to go and draw my life savings."
Goblin 1: "Ah crap! Really? Hold the fort, I'll just go find that bauble I picked up a few weeks ago..."

Heh, kind of reminds me of the Goblins Comic. They had a poorly locked chest and it had stuff in it. They weren't allowed to use the stuff, it was just goblin law, but adventurers could take it.

Tor the Fallen
2007-03-04, 08:48 PM
He rolled a 99.

Just like crit damage on a power attack with a warhammer seems like a lot.

And, depending on what the goblins are doing, it may make sense that they hold on to their gold. Neutral evil means they're likely to be thieves. If they're on a raiding mission, it's likely they just carried off something precious.

daggaz
2007-03-05, 07:01 AM
Yeah.. if you use the Treasure tables, you have to remember that they are slightly randomized. So if you roll 99 or 100, you will end up with the glory load payoff for your PC's. I once did a trog cave (a complete day for an ECL2 party), and ended up with several thousands of gp in high end gems, a disgustingly large pile of copper, a pile of scrolls, several MW items, a magic net, and get this, a +2 flaming burst keen dwarven waraxe. All of it rolled legally.. I hit so many high nineties and a few 100's it was almost unbelievable.

The point is, the treasure tables are guidelines. Its up to the DM to make the final say about the balance and the treasure type. I took out most of that stuff, changed some of the MW items to things the party could use, and nerfed the crap outta that waraxe.

Also, like it was posted above, its a good idea to not have all your monsters carrying loot. It makes the game harder (finding said loot), more interesting, and more realistic. Some of my loot was in the corpses of unfortunate wanderers, who fell prey to unintelligent abberations in the caves. Other parts of the loot were things the trogs were actively using against the party. The rest, like the coinage and gems, was kept in a big stash along with a fair amount of garbage, as these trogs were rather uncivilized and didnt really know what to do with it. The party had to wipe out their whole layer before they found it.

greenknight
2007-03-05, 08:54 AM
Well, that's not to say 5 goblins couldn't have had 50pp. They might have been the only survivors of a raiding party which robbed a merchant caravan, for example. Although if that's how you wanted to do it, it might be better to break most of the PP into GP, SP and maybe even CP.

Shhalahr Windrider
2007-03-05, 09:09 AM
Just because the adventurers spend a small fortune on everything, doesn't mean that everything they kill is going to cater for their rather expensive habits (living in pricey inns, getting drunk all the time in town, frequenting brothels, buying new weapons/armour/magic items) in how much money they have.
No, the fact that adventurers have expensive lifestyles does not mean that everything they do will cater to those lifestyles. It's the fact that certain elements of game balance are predicated on the adventurers being able to maintain their expensive lifestyles that does it.

Please do note that the total value of treasure came out as less than what the average EL 2 encounter should be giving, according to Table 3–3 on page 51 of the DMG.

But then of course, Angafirith rounded the EL up, since it takes six CR 1/3 creatures to make an even, on the dot EL 2. Conveniently enough, he really only had 5/6 of a "proper" EL 2 encounter, and he randomly rolled 5/6 of the recommended EL 2 treasure balue.

Angafirith, you're spot on the treasure value.

paigeoliver
2007-03-05, 09:29 AM
You should probably advise your GM to ignore the random tables and instead place weath based on encounter level directly. It gives the GM a lot more control and is actually a lot faster than using the tables.

A group of 5 goblins COULD totally be carrying 50 PP for many, many reasons.

#1. They just stole it from someplace.

#2. They are carrying their tribes annual tribute to the local ogre lord.

#3. They are the last survivors of a much larger mercenary band and are carrying all the loot that the entire mercenary band had with them, and are on their way home.

#4. Their tribal leader sent them out to buy something from the sort of merchants that might deal with goblins.

#5. The goblins happened upon a wealthy merchant and the merchant threw his coin purse at them and ran away.

#6. The goblins have been trying THEIR luck at adventuring and have been very lucky so far.

#7. The list goes on and on. Just think of all the many reasons why a normal lower class person might be carrying a couple grand in cash on them, and then apply it to the goblins.

PnP Fan
2007-03-05, 10:01 AM
1. Never use the random tables. Run the game the way you want it to be run. That way you get a game/setting that makes sense to at least one person who is actually at the table.
2. If you insist on randomizing treasure (nothing inately wrong with that, just not my style ;-), remember that's the prize for EVERYTHING in the encounter. If these goblins are so rich, perhaps they should be wearing chainmail instead of relying on their normal listed equipment. Perhaps they have beds and furniture in the goblin cave. Perhaps they do have a lock box somewhere. Perhaps some of this stuff is in good shape too. Charge for these things out of the total treasure. After all, if the PC's take it, they can sell it. This will help keep your PC's from running around with crazy amounts of money, and I'm pretty sure there's some similar advice in the DMG as well.

paigeoliver
2007-03-05, 10:29 AM
Also, somewhere in either an old Dragon Magazine (2nd edition era) or possibly one of those 2nd edition splatbooks they talked about using especially good treasure rolls on supposedly weak creatures to further the plot. If the goblins had 50 PP there had to be a reason why. Are they working for the evil wizard of wazoo? Are they running poison potions from one thieve's guild to another? Any monster with too much treasure can be a place for the GM to take the story somewhere else.

Also, more ideas.

Maybe the goblins ARE wealthy merchant goblins. Maybe they traveled from a distant land where goblins have their act a little more together in order to purchase trade goods to bring back home to make a profit.

My campaign world actually has a large Lawful Orcish kingdom with a pretty decent technical level. The individual orcs tend to be lawful evil, but the kingdom itself is lawful neutral. In fact they are a lot more enlightened then the rest of the world, extending citizenship to any sentient creatures that are not elves, goblins or hobgoblins. Both the elves and goblins/hobgoblins are denied citizenship because of actions taken by the governments of their respective peoples. Elves may travel, and work, but may not own property. Goblins however are killed on sight. The elves were denied citizenship because the neighboring elven government refused to send troops to help defend against a goblin incursion, and the goblins, well, that is because of the incursion.

Shhalahr Windrider
2007-03-05, 01:19 PM
Also, somewhere in either an old Dragon Magazine (2nd edition era) or possibly one of those 2nd edition splatbooks they talked about using especially good treasure rolls on supposedly weak creatures to further the plot.
Seriously, folks, the goblins got outright standard treasure for their EL. And goblins are listed as possessing the Standard treasure value. No special plot point needed to explain the total value. Five CR 1/3 goblins should, on average, have 500 gp worth of treasure. It's not an especially good roll. It's a spot on roll.

Only odd point may be why all that treasure is specifically in platinum.

JellyPooga
2007-03-05, 03:20 PM
Only odd point may be why all that treasure is specifically in platinum.



remember that's the prize for EVERYTHING in the encounter. If these goblins are so rich, perhaps they should be wearing chainmail instead of relying on their normal listed equipment. Perhaps they have beds and furniture in the goblin cave. Perhaps they do have a lock box somewhere. Perhaps some of this stuff is in good shape too. Charge for these things out of the total treasure. After all, if the PC's take it, they can sell it.


The problem with doing random rolls for how much loot a group of baddies has is that most people roll it after the encounter. This means that a lot of the time, baddies won't be using stuff that they otherwise would (wands/potions/weapons etc.). Like you say, it is odd that they should be carrying 50pp around. However, that 500gp worth of 'treasure' would be better off represented in stuff.

My five goblins would probably have a leader, who maybe has a Potion of Cure Light Wounds and a Masterwork Handaxe (thats 350 or so gone), maybe one of them has a bow (another 20? I forget prices of stuff) and another actually has managed to cobble together some splint mail from scraps (50? -ish?..though who'd buy it I don't know). Then let them actually be carrying some gold and silver (well, we've got 80gp left, so maybe they have robbed a merchant after all - don't forget that 80gp is still an awful lot for the average fantasy-setting-guy - split this into Gold, Silver and Copper [maybe 1pp, 50gp, 180sp and 200cp] and then ask the PC's what their encumbrance values are...or if you're feeling kind give it to them in goods [spice is a fairly good one, as is jewellery])

Anyway, my point is, is that 5 goblins really shouldn't have 50pp on them unless it's for a really specific and weird reason (If they were being sent to buy something, they're more likely to have gold...remember, pp are not usually accepted by most traders, even gp are are rarity to most people and where did the tribe find this platinum anyway? If they robbed someone, why was the victim carrying platinum?)

Angafirith
2007-03-05, 04:56 PM
I ended up using it as a bit of a plot point. The PCs have been hired by a local merchant guild to clear out the goblin bandits that have been disrupting their trade routes. It explains, to some extent, why the goblins seem to have odd items and treasure.

I intend to keep trying to use randomized treasure, as it fits in with the scenario and keeps me from being too generous with the results. I'll certainly roll for treasure before the encounter so that monsters actually get the benefit of their small fortunes.

I was just concerned about whether I calculated and rolled properly; it seemed like a lot of money.

Thanks for the answers, everyone. I have a better idea of how valuable each gold piece is.

Matthew
2007-03-06, 03:19 PM
Yup, D&D economics make no real sense. Don't worry about it, unless you are seeking to rebuild that aspect of the game.