Battle of the Core Classes [Results, Battle Reports, Thrash-Talk and more]

[Lord Lorac Silvanos]

TOURNAMENT
{table=head;width=700px]Pos.|
Class
|
Player
|
Battles
|
Victories
|
Defeats


1
|
Druid
|
The_Werebear
|
1
|
1
|
0

2
|
Paladin
|
The White Knight
|
1
|
1
|
0

3
|
Fighter
|
PinkysBrain
|
1
|
1
|
0

4
|
Barbarian
|
Raool
|
1
|
1
|
0

5
|
Bard
|
Leush
|
2
|
1
|
1

6
|
Ranger
|
Draz74
|
0
|
0
|
0

7
|
Wizard
|
Jade_Tarem
|
0
|
0
|
0

8
|
Rogue
|
Hamster_Ninja
|
0
|
0
|
0

9
|
Cleric
|
Rigeld2
|
1
|
0
|
1

10
|
Sorcerer
|
katonta
|
1
|
0
|
1

11
|
Monk
|
Falconsflight
|
2
|
0
|
2
[/table]




You can discuss the results of the battles here and explain why they do not meet your expectations or match them.

We will keep it updated with battle reports and comments from the players.

Logic will be conducting interviews with the contestants and Quietus will be providing the Storyfied Battle Reports (SBR).

If anyone has other suggestions for additions or improvements, please do not be shy.

[Lord Lorac Silvanos]

{table=head;width=800px}]Results|{colsp=11}
Opponent

-|
Drd
|
Mnk
|
Brd
|
Pal
|
Rgr
|
Wiz
|
Clr
|
Ftr
|
Sor
|
Bbn
|
Rog

Druid|
-
|
W-7

Monk|
L-7
|
-
|
L-9

Bard||
W-9
|
-
|
L-14

Paladin|||
W-14
|
-

Ranger|||||
-

Wizard||||||
-

Cleric|||||||
-
|
L-10

Fighter|||||||
W-10
|
-

Sorcerer|||||||||
-
|
L-30

Barbarian|||||||||
W-30
|
-

Rogue|||||||||||
-
[/table]



Battle Reports
{table=head;width=850px]
#
|
Battle
|
Map
|
Rounds
|
Winner
|
Winning Blow

1st
|
Druid vs. Monk
|
Medieve
|
7
|
Druid
|
Baleful Polymorph

2nd
|
Bard vs. Paladin
|
Dizlag
|
14
|
Paladin
|
Smite Standard Attack

3rd
|
Ranger vs. Wizard
|
Medieve
|||

4th|
Cleric vs. Fighter
|
Dizlag
|
10
|
Fighter
|
Fireballs

5th|
Sorcerer vs. Barbarian
|
SpiderBrigade
|
30
|
Barbarian
|
AoO

6th|
Rogue vs. Druid (Truffles)
|
SpiderBrigade
|||

7th|
Monk vs. Bard (enderrocksonall)
|
Medieve
|
9
|
Bard
|
CdG by Celestial Bison

8th|
Paladin vs. Cleric
|
Dizlag
|||

9th|
Fighter vs. Sorcerer (Ditto)
|
Dizlag
|||[/table]




Hall of Fame and Shame

Shortest Battle:
1st Battle - Druid vs. Monk (7 rounds)

Longest Battle:
5th Battle - Sorcerer vs. Barbarian (30 rounds)

Most damage (Attack Action):
Paladin: Smite 38 dmg in the 2nd Battle

Most damage (Standard Action):
Fighter: Fireballs 54 dmg in the 4th Battle

Most damage taken and won:
Barbarian: Fireball 11 dmg in the 5th Battle

Highest GP consumption:
Fighter
Sorcerer
Barbarian
Paladin
Bard
Monk
Druid
ClericMost popular spell effect:
Fireball

[Beleriphon]

Here's a chart I put toghter of the matchups. Does anyone know how to put lines in this, so this doen't look like a mess?

Barbarian

Bard

Cleric

Druid

Fighter

Monk Druid

Paladin

Ranger

Rogue

Sorcerer

Wizard
Barbarian Bard Cleric Druid Fighter Monk Paladin Ranger Rogue Sorcerer Wizard

You can use a the table option which should work.

[Lord Lorac Silvanos]

martyboy you read my mind:-)

I was going to do that in a table though.... Let me see how that looks.

[ken-do-nim]

I'd love to read a little more about how the battle went. What did the druid wildshape into? What did he summon? Did the monk hit with the stunning fist attack? Etc.

[Emperor Tippy]

Nothing unexpected so far in who's winning/losing.

[Beleriphon]

Nothing unexpected so far in who's winning/losing.

You mean with the one fight? That wasn't entirely unexpected, but again its hard to say.

BTW, for anybody that is interested I had a brain wave I'm working on a spreadsheet to display the results in fancy chart. Once every class has had at least one fight it should be interesting see how it turns out based on the win ratio. As it stands one class is probably going to win all of the fights. My money is on the cleric, wizard or druid at this point.

[The_Werebear]

To be honest, I didn't think the Baleful Polymorph would work. Monk saves and all.

[Jade_Tarem]

Er, wasn't there supposed to be crowd-view commentary on this? Like, You see Werebear wave his arms and speak unintelligibly, and suddenly..."

[Lord Lorac Silvanos]

Er, wasn't there supposed to be crowd-view commentary on this? Like, You see Werebear wave his arms and speak unintelligibly, and suddenly..."

There will be as soon as the contestants has perfected their descriptions :smallwink:

[marjan]

Where can I see how the battle went, round to round?

[Lord Lorac Silvanos]

Where can I see how the battle went, round to round?


There will be as soon as the contestants has perfected their descriptions :smallwink:

It will be made available asap.

[Ditto]

For the clearest running tally on the round-robin tally board, you might add another column. Instead of putting the word 'Druid' in twice for the druid/monk battle, you could put 'W' in the first row (under the top 'Monk') and 'L' in the second row (to the right of other 'Monk'). When you total up the number of Ws (counting L to R) in the final column, you'll have a running tally of each class' wins.

[AtomicKitKat]

You could also try for "O"(win) and "X"(Lose), perhaps with colour tags to highlight. "-" for a tie.

[Leush]

Can there even be a tie? Oh I suppose if the sorcerer fireballs both of them... Hmm... That would be interesting... But how else are there gonna be ties.

So are there four fights going on right now then?

[AtomicKitKat]

You could have a tie if you're disabled and drop the other guy but subsequently die/bleed from exertion. That or I've played too much ToEE recently.

[daggaz]

Poison or Continual Damage spells could result in a tie.
Logs of the fights will rule, will they be posted on this thread? Also... might wanna see about having this thread made into a sticky for a short time (tho I suppose with all the hits it will get, probably wont need it after all)

[Lord Lorac Silvanos]

So are there four fights going on right now then?

Yes, and at least 3 of them are getting rather exciting.

[Rigeld2]

So far mines kind of boring.

[Leush]

I wonder which one isn't.... :smallyuk:

But I can wait till after they are over to find out.

Edit: Ahah! Now that I didn't expect!

[Logic]

Could someone possible include a Round by round synopsis of what happened?
As in
Initiative
Druid-14; Monk-20
Round 1
Monk: Moves 30 ft, readies an action
Druid:Moves 30 ft, casts "Whatever" on self
etc...

I might even be willing to compile each and every fight like this, if I have links to the battle thread. I will even throw highlights in for those that dont want to read each one through entirely.

[Rigeld2]

I might even be willing to compile each and every fight like this, if I have links to the battle thread. I will even throw highlights in for those that dont want to read each one through entirely.
Its being compiled. Be patient :)

[Lord Lorac Silvanos]

I might even be willing to compile each and every fight like this, if I have links to the battle thread. I will even throw highlights in for those that dont want to read each one through entirely.

How are your storytelling skills?

Will you be able and willing to compile an epic tale from battle reports?

[daggaz]

Actually... considering the whole purpose of this excercise was to 'test' balance mechanics wise, I think adding a bunch of fluff would just cloud the issue. Personally, I would just like to see the raw data, round by round. This would also result in faster releasing of said data, so the 'scientific community' at large could study it and interpret the results. If they want fluff, people can just add their own imaginations to it.

[Logic]

How are your storytelling skills?

Will you be able and willing to compile an epic tale from battle reports?
I believe I can take on that challenge, and if not, I can always get my brother to help (the eternal story-teller mind you).

[Quietus]

I'm a professional writer; If I'm giving a transcript of everything that happened, I can story-fy it. You've got my word that I won't say anything to those who're playing.

[Logic]

I'm a professional writer; If I'm giving a transcript of everything that happened, I can story-fy it. You've got my word that I won't say anything to those who're playing.
I hereby nominate a battle-tested warrior to take the place as the official scribe. Never send a rookie to do a veteren's job.

[Quietus]

Not as battle-tested as I'd like; I'm going to be doing some work (If I get the job, I see no reason why I shouldn't) on a couple of games coming out in the next year, and I'm published on Electric Playground. I also run my own PbP forum set in a homebrew world, freeform roleplay. Not as much experience as I'd like, but I do have a few notches in my belt.

[Lord Lorac Silvanos]

Actually... considering the whole purpose of this excercise was to 'test' balance mechanics wise, I think adding a bunch of fluff would just cloud the issue.

That is our main purpose, but fluff has been in demand and we would like to cater to the whole community.
Including a more story like description won't distract much from the crunch and they will be kept separate.


Personally, I would just like to see the raw data, round by round. This would also result in faster releasing of said data, so the 'scientific community' at large could study it and interpret the results. If they want fluff, people can just add their own imaginations to it.


The raw data won't be released for quite a while due to metagame concerns.
Only in small portions, anyway.

[Lord Lorac Silvanos]

I hereby nominate a battle-tested warrior to take the place as the official scribe. Never send a rookie to do a veteren's job.

Thank you for taking up the challenge in the first place.,

Interviewing the contestants and asking about their expectations and the outcomes of the battles might still be interesting if you would be willing to do some journalism :smallsmile:


Not as battle-tested as I'd like; I'm going to be doing some work (If I get the job, I see no reason why I shouldn't) on a couple of games coming out in the next year, and I'm published on Electric Playground. I also run my own PbP forum set in a homebrew world, freeform roleplay. Not as much experience as I'd like, but I do have a few notches in my belt.

This sounds very promising :smallsmile:

I have asked the contestants to provide narrative description and given them the opportunity to elaborate after the battle, but to have someone actually make a cohesive "story" would be most excellent.

If you PM me an email address I will send you the first report along with the map.

[Logic]

Thank you for taking up the challenge in the first place.You are welcome.


Interviewing the contestants and asking about their expectations and the outcomes of the battles might still be interesting if you would be willing to do some journalism :smallsmile:
This sounds like a wonderful idea. I just hope I don't ask each and every participant the same questions. Perhaps we can get a little bit of mock-rivalry going? (In some cases, the may be no need for "mock rivalry")

[Lord Lorac Silvanos]

You are welcome.

This sounds like a wonderful idea. I just hope I don't ask each and every participant the same questions. Perhaps we can get a little bit of mock-rivalry going? (In some cases, the may be no need for "mock rivalry")

I think the chances are good.
Some of the contestants have actually asked me to convey frightening images and threats. :smallcool:


On another note, I was thinking about a Hall of Fame (& Shame) with a few records like most damage dealt/taken, mots used spell, fastest battle, longest battle etc.

Suggestions are welcome.

[Meat Shield]

On another note, I was thinking about a Hall of Fame (& Shame) with a few records like most damage dealt/taken, mots used spell, fastest battle, longest battle etc.

Suggestions are welcome.
I would like to see an award for the LEAST clichéd tactics - for example, a druid NOT using Wildshape, or a Wizard winning in melee

[Raool]

I have a hunch that the boring battle is mine.

[Quietus]

Why worry about that? I just read over the transcript of the druid/monk fight... it should be a fairly interesting one for me to work with.

Too bad about the poor rolls for the monk. Bad luck ALWAYS bites you in the end.

By the way, nice finishing comment there Silvanos!

[Lord Lorac Silvanos]

By the way, nice finishing comment there Silvanos!

I am not sure that Falconsflight agrees....

[Golthur]

I'm lurking in anticipation of the battle reports :smile:.

I'm mostly eager to see any "unexpected" wins or unorthodox tactics that "save the day" for an underdog. In my heart of hearts, I want one of the underdogs to win at least one of the fights that they shouldn't, even though I voted "druid" on the poll.

Well done, everyone, for getting this all going.

[Quietus]

I am not sure that Falconsflight agrees....

Yes, well.... Maybe he should consider not rolling low when it counts, then. :smallbiggrin:

[Golthur]

Too bad about the poor rolls for the monk. Bad luck ALWAYS bites you in the end.


General question - was anything decided on the "luck analysis"? It seems like (just from the tiny bit leaked here) that luck was a major deciding factor in this particular battle.

[Quietus]

Any time you start getting into "Save-or-XXXXX" territory, luck starts to come into play. A proper analysis of how much of a role luck played in total will no doubt be made after all of the matches have been made.

[brian c]

I would like to see an award for the LEAST clichéd tactics - for example, a druid NOT using Wildshape, or a Wizard winning in melee

Well, that list is gonna end up being pretty short. Probably the best you could do is give an award to the Rogue if he wins a round without using sneak-attack.

[Bears With Lasers]

I would like to see an award for the LEAST clichéd tactics - for example, a druid NOT using Wildshape, or a Wizard winning in melee

Yes! Let's use the least effective tactics availible to us in an arena battle!!111one

[Meat Shield]

Bears and Brian - the award would reflect inventive and creative methods of dispatching your opponent, or possibly reflecting the willingness to take a shot an an opening the opponent presents. For instance, (completely hypothetically) an invisible wizard sticking the cleric with a silenced dagger coated with sovereign glue as his first attack. Not only does that get rid of most spells the cleric could cast, but the cleric now has no idea where the wizard is if he goes invisible again. Game, set, match for the wizard at that point.

[The_Werebear]

Yes! Let's use the least effective tactics availible to us in an arena battle!!111one

Not necesarily

In this case, wildshape was more of a hindrance than a help, as it nearly prevented me from getting through the door of the building to turn him into a newt.

One situation, but still. Fitting will be a problem.

[Rigeld2]

I would request that none of my battles get storyfied until after the arena is done. Lord Sil would probably agree that its best.

[Quietus]

If Silvanos thinks it's best that they not be storyfied till after all is said and done, then that works. I'd still like to request that transcripts be sent my way as battles finish up so that I can work on getting it written, and ready to go when everything's done.

[Lord Lorac Silvanos]

Rigeld2: Your "tactics" are a bit out of the ordinary, so I can certainly understand.
I hope you will appear on Logic's talk-show for a discussion about your battles and their results. Then you can decide for yourself how much you want to reveal and people still get a chance to "meet" you.


Quietus: Do not worry, you will have them as soon as the battles are over.

[Lord Lorac Silvanos]

General question - was anything decided on the "luck analysis"? It seems like (just from the tiny bit leaked here) that luck was a major deciding factor in this particular battle.

I do not have time to provide the analysis as we proceed, but if anyone else, who has at least a little knowledge of statistics, would be willing to do it I can make the data available.
Otherwise it will probably have to wait until we are finished.

[LotharBot]

Once you get the actual battle reports up, you should link them from the W/L table (ex: the Monk-Druid square that shows the Druid W over the monk, clicking the W should take you to the post where it's explained how it happened.)

EDIT: also, consider using shorthand in that table to show how long the fight lasted -- W 7 for a 7 round fight, for example.

[Lord Lorac Silvanos]

Yes, linking was also my intention if the quirky tables will allow me.

I will see how your shorthand suggestion looks.

[Jade_Tarem]

I think the chances are good.
Some of the contestants have actually asked me to convey frightening images and threats. :smallcool:

I don't know what you're talking about, Silvanos. That sounds frighteningly immature.

[Leush]

What do you mean immature? They're grown men/dwarves/elves/gnomes/halflings/halforcs battling out for life and death. I think it's quite appropriate that they should be snarling at each other with raised fists, don't ya think? Edit: Ohhh Sarcasm.... I feel slow today...

What? Don't look at me like that? Just because I'm the bard with no substance behind him, whose about to be completely and utterly crushed, doesn't mean that I engage in any of those activities... Although I do :smallyuk:

On another note: There is now a measure of my intelligence on the web! Here it is: It took me three month and x rounds to realise that the bard isn't get going to get out of this one...:smallsigh:

[Rigeld2]

Rigeld2: Your "tactics" are a bit out of the ordinary, so I can certainly understand.
I hope you will appear on Logic's talk-show for a discussion about your battles and their results. Then you can decide for yourself how much you want to reveal and people still get a chance to "meet" you.
I'm definitely up for that.

[Lord Lorac Silvanos]

I don't know what you're talking about, Silvanos. That sounds frighteningly immature.

:smallamused:




What? Don't look at me like that? Just because I'm the bard with no substance behind him, whose about to be completely and utterly crushed, doesn't mean that I engage in any of those activities... Although I do :smallyuk:


Crushed? What are you talking about?

Just because your opponent has filled my mailbox (12 emails) with all the full attacks he intends to make.
Notice the plural!

[Jade_Tarem]

Just because your opponent has filled my mailbox (12 emails) with all the full attacks he intends to make.
Notice the plural!

I sense a disturbance in the force, as though millions of people suddenly cried out and got up to go the the restroom and get the hell out of the stadium before traffic becomes a nightmare.

[Leush]

12 e-mails detailing full attacks? Pfft, I'm not scared of at least 11 of them.


I sense a disturbance in the force, as though millions of people suddenly cried out and got up to go the the restroom and get the hell out of the stadium before traffic becomes a nightmare.

Yay! They're leaving! They won't see what they're meant to see! I'm so happy! I get to die... Alone and... Umm... That's not a good thing, is it?

[Quietus]

Leush, you're the bard? I think you should start trying to Inspire Courage, man, 'cause this whole weepy thing? It just isn't doing anything for me.

[Lord Lorac Silvanos]

Leush, you're the bard? I think you should start trying to Inspire Courage, man, 'cause this whole weepy thing? It just isn't doing anything for me.

Ohh this is nothing. :smallsigh:

You should see the whiny PMs I get :smalltongue:

[The_Werebear]

Leush, you're the bard? I think you should start trying to Inspire Courage, man, 'cause this whole weepy thing? It just isn't doing anything for me.

Perform: Tragedy, Maybe?

[Leush]

Leush, you're the bard? I think you should start trying to Inspire Courage, man, 'cause this whole weepy thing? It just isn't doing anything for me.

I *am* inspiring courage.
Just happens I'm inspiring it in everyone yet to face me rather than myself.


Ohh this is nothing. :smallsigh:

You should see the whiny PMs I get :smalltongue:

Just to think, you've got a full 9.1 battles of this left. On another note, I'll stop whining once I start winning... In other words, you better get some industrial ear plugs. :smallyuk: Do you think we should at some point release the full compendium of Leush's PMs? It'll be just like Pliny's Letters!


Perform: Tragedy, Maybe?

I don't need to perform tragedy... This *is* a tragedy. :smallbiggrin:

[Rigeld2]

can I offer surrender to the pre-defeated? :p

[Jade_Tarem]

I'd say yes, but I know that I'm the first one on your list, judging by the other two threads.

[PinkysBrain]

can I offer surrender to the pre-defeated? :p
How about a bet on how little damage you will take in our fight? :)

[Rigeld2]

How about a bet on how little damage you will take in our fight? :)
If I do it right, I'll take 0. But that assumes my tactics work.

Have you seen me yet? :p

[SpiderBrigade]

So this is apparently the "results, battle reports, and trash-talking" thread?

[Quietus]

It would seem so. I've got some personal crap to take care of today, plus prepping to DM an IRC game tonight, but I'll try and get started on the battle report I have. Got a full day of gaming tomorrow if I can get some money together for transportation, so I'll try and have it properly written up by late Thursday at the latest.

Might have it out today depending on how things go, though.

[ken-do-nim]

You know what would be really cool? The bard player (successfully) using modify memory on each opponent to make them think they've won the contest, when actually he had used a suggestion to make them do something like ... oh, cry like a baby. The player would be doing all this moping on this thread about how he's going to lose all the fights, but in reality its the opposite and he's just setting people up.

[Jade_Tarem]

The contestants reset after each fight. A modify memory wouldn't last.

Which is too bad, cause that idea is awesome.

Silvanos: "And the winner overall is - Leush."
Everyone Else: "WHAT?"

[Falconsflight]

Yeah, it's taken me a bit to come on here and post. I've been paying more attention elsewhere.

For the record about my last 2 rolls in my battle with the druid: *Bleep!!**Bleep!!**Bleep!!**Bleep!!**Bleep!!**Blee p!!**Bleep!!**Bleep!!**Bleeping!!**Bleep!!**Bleep! !**Bleep!!**Bleep!!**Bleep!!**Bleep!!*

Ahh, that feels better. Oh and the whole nuts thing... Yeah, Bad silvanos bad!

*sighs* I still can't belive I sucked that bad. Btw, I loved my tactic of staying the frick away from your huge dino in the building. I only wished you followed suit with your wild shape. That would ahve been awesome. "You are huge, you cannot fit though the door." "*Bleep!!*"

But yeah, That sucked.

[BCOVertigo]

Btw, I loved my tactic of staying the frick away from your huge dino in the building.

Wait...were you in the building or was the dinosaur?

You weren't using the restroom when he killed you were you?

[Jade_Tarem]

Wait...were you in the building or was the dinosaur?

You weren't using the restroom when he killed you were you?

Every post on this thread increases the pity I feel for Quietus. There seems to be a theme of "turn THAT into an epic battle! Haha!"

[The_Werebear]

Yeah, it's taken me a bit to come on here and post. I've been paying more attention elsewhere.

For the record about my last 2 rolls in my battle with the druid: *Bleep!!**Bleep!!**Bleep!!**Bleep!!**Bleep!!**Blee p!!**Bleep!!**Bleep!!**Bleeping!!**Bleep!!**Bleep! !**Bleep!!**Bleep!!**Bleep!!**Bleep!!*

Ahh, that feels better. Oh and the whole nuts thing... Yeah, Bad silvanos bad!

*sighs* I still can't belive I sucked that bad. Btw, I loved my tactic of staying the frick away from your huge dino in the building. I only wished you followed suit with your wild shape. That would ahve been awesome. "You are huge, you cannot fit though the door." "*Bleep!!*"

But yeah, That sucked.

Originially, I was trying to figure out a way to break the walll down. If I had summoned two animals with summon nature's ally, given Dino a portable ram, and cast bulls strength on him, he could have taken 20 to break the wall open. I honestly didn't expect to stick the BP though.

Good fight.

I am going to have to take reduce animal too now :smallyuk:

[Falconsflight]

Good fight! All i did was muss up your dino's hair! That's all. I wanted to at least punch you. Or something. I had a whole tactics thing! But no. Mr. Baleful Polymorph and I just rolled a fricken 1!

But sure. We fought. Good job though.

[Lord Lorac Silvanos]

Good fight! All i did was muss up your dino's hair! That's all. I wanted to at least punch you. Or something.

You actually did hit the Druid also. :smallamused:

Look at the Hall of Fame in the first posts.
Your name has been immortalized... until the next fight is over.

Status:
Blood has been spilled in one of the other fight now!

[Rigeld2]

Status:
Blood has been spilled in one of the other fight now!
Grrr............

[Quietus]

Every post on this thread increases the pity I feel for Quietus. There seems to be a theme of "turn THAT into an epic battle! Haha!"

You have to remember, for any pity you feel toward me, it's balanced by the fact that I get to see all the results before anyone else not involved in the fights directly. :smallamused:

But no, in all seriousness; Just because it came to a quick, though unfortunate, end, doesn't mean I can't turn it into an epic battle. There's plenty for me to work with, and if there's any battles that I simply can't work with to make them epic, I'll at least take the humor route and make them amusing. It's all in the style, you see, and a good writer knows how to use his tools to their greatest effect. *Twirls a fancy pen like a rapier*

Now, if you'll excuse me, I have a good 11 hours of gaming to be done today, but it's going to involve three and a half hours of travel, first. I'll put that time to good use planning out how to write up that battle.

[Leush]

Grrr............

Grrr? Grrrrr! Grr Grrr! Gurrr???

I wonder... Is that a grrr, because you're hit, because you've hit or because you're not getting a chance to hit things?

[Jade_Tarem]

It's because his "unorthodox tactics" involve unintelligible grunting. :smalltongue:

[The White Knight]

:smallamused:




Crushed? What are you talking about?

Just because your opponent has filled my mailbox (12 emails) with all the full attacks he intends to make.
Notice the plural!

That I apologize for. You said you preferred contingent actions (if-thens) to speed things up, so whenever it seemed like an attack could've been possible, I rolled you one. It never occurred to me at the time to just save and use the rolls later and just change the modifiers as appropriate :P

[Lord Lorac Silvanos]

That I apologize for. You said you preferred contingent actions (if-thens) to speed things up, so whenever it seemed like an attack could've been possible, I rolled you one.

I do, and it was no problem :smallsmile:

However, I find it funny that I have to ask for every spot and listen check.... but I can see how it would be faster to just expedite the Halfling :smalltongue:

(Disclaimer: Points might have been slightly exaggerated in the above)


It never occurred to me at the time to just save and use the rolls later and just change the modifiers as appropriate :P


It can be done to a certain extend, but preventing metagaming is also important. In your case, however, that is not an issue at all.


Status update:
More Blood has been spilled.

[The White Knight]

I assumed now that we're within eyeshot/earshot of one another and each know where the other is located, the Listen and Spot would only be necessary on a specific case-by-case basis. If you still want Spot and Listen every round, I'll be happy to flood your inbox a little more, haha.

EDIT: Unless I'm beating on some kind of illusion, and the real Leush is gonna jump out at me at any minute :P

[Lord Lorac Silvanos]

Well, you are right.

They have been superfluous for a couple of rounds, but they are nice to have in case it becomes relevant.

[Leush]

White Knight: You've showed me a great huge big whacking flaw in my tactics. I shall become stronger than ever before! Unfortunately I shall also become dead, although that is a minor point.

And I might as well be an illusion with all the saves you've succeeded. -.- A soft fleshy one full of blood :P

Edit: How many rounds have the other battles been going so far?

[Rigeld2]

Edit: How many rounds have the other battles been going so far?
Mine's at 7... and really just starting.

[The_Werebear]

Mine ended at seven.

[Lord Lorac Silvanos]

Mine's at 7... and really just starting.

You are just starting you mean, PinkysBrain has been going at it for quite a while ehhh? :smalltongue:

[The White Knight]

And I might as well be an illusion with all the saves you've succeeded. -.- A soft fleshy one full of blood :P

That's Divine Grace for ye. I never leave home without it :D

[Rigeld2]

You are just starting you mean, PinkysBrain has been going at it for quite a while ehhh? :smalltongue:
Grr.
1234567890

[Leush]

Ooo... So... Erm... can we start on our next set of battles??

[Lord Lorac Silvanos]

I have updated the first two posts of this thread, so they reflect the recent development and end of our second battle.

Next set of battles will continue shortly....

[Spiryt]

That was probably disscused before, but:
Don't you think that smite evil is little too potent this way?
You know three attacks per day which will very probably hit and deal +10 dam each.
But maybe it's more fair that taking paladin away his offensive class feature....

Anyway, is somewhere written what races are character's? I mean what chances have Draz to have some bonus against everybody:smallbiggrin: ?

[Leush]

I'd say it's fair because a) the paladin probably won't go all out against something that isn't evil anyway unless he has to. b) smite is useable only 3 times a day, whilst favoured enemy is useable on every attack. But since he can have I think two favoured enemies by this level, there is a 1/3 chance of it working for a whole battle, or a slightly bigger one if he selects his favoured enemies wisely.

[Spiryt]

But since he can have I think two favoured enemies by this level, there is a 1/3 chance of it working for a whole battle, or a slightly bigger one if he selects his favoured enemies wisely.

He has actualy three at 10 level, and I'm just thinking if he will choose them lucky. Beacuse lot can depend on it.:smallbiggrin:

[Bender]

That was probably disscused before, but:
Don't you think that smite evil is little too potent this way?
You know three attacks per day which will very probably hit and deal +10 dam each.
But maybe it's more fair that taking paladin away his offensive class feature....

Anyway, is somewhere written what races are character's? I mean what chances have Draz to have some bonus against everybody:smallbiggrin: ?

I remember reading something in de DMG about creating characters for single encounters: single use items should cost 5? times as much, wands only have 1/5th the charges. I'm not sure it mentioned special abilities, but you could say only 1/5th of the times/day allowed (rounded up).
Of course, it's too late for this contest anyway...

[Shisumo]

He has actualy three at 10 level, and I'm just thinking if he will choose them lucky. Beacuse lot can depend on it.:smallbiggrin:

FE: Humans would be the logical choice, followed by FE: Halfling and FE: Elf respectively, I would think.

[PinkysBrain]

I remember reading something in de DMG about creating characters for single encounters: single use items should cost 5? times as much, wands only have 1/5th the charges. I'm not sure it mentioned special abilities, but you could say only 1/5th of the times/day allowed (rounded up).
Of course, it's too late for this contest anyway...
That would screw the non casters even worse ... the casters have far far cheaper resources (scrolls) than the non casters. The only thing which would change for them that it would become a little more interesting to buy pearls of power ... at the same time all the single use items for non casters get priced through the roof.

[Bender]

That would screw the non casters even worse ... the casters have far far cheaper resources (scrolls) than the non casters. The only thing which would change for them that it would become a little more interesting to buy pearls of power ... at the same time all the single use items for non casters get priced through the roof.

That makes a lot of sense :smallsmile:

[Sundog]

So, when do we get the meaty battle reports?

[Draz74]

Anyway, is somewhere written what races are character's? I mean what chances have Draz to have some bonus against everybody:smallbiggrin: ?

Nah, that would have been an unfair advantage for sure. I had to pick Favored Enemies just by thinking, "If I were playing the other ten classes, which races would I choose? What races am I most worried about facing?"

Still, a very nice ability indeed, in this particular game format.

I was originally planning on making the Ranger a goblin. When they announced the rule of PHB races only, I was initially disappointed ... but that went away very quickly when I realized I only had to worry about a few kinds of Favored Enemies.

[Teloric]

Just looking at chart 2, it's hard to tell who won between any two combatants. For example, looking at the Paladin and the Bard, does the W mean that the Bard won, or does it mean that the Paladin won? Yes, it can be figured out, but why not simply post the winner in the square?

So, for the Paladin vs. Bard, put in Pal-14 instead of W-14...

Just a thought...

[Lord Lorac Silvanos]

Just looking at chart 2, it's hard to tell who won between any two combatants. For example, looking at the Paladin and the Bard, does the W mean that the Bard won, or does it mean that the Paladin won? Yes, it can be figured out, but why not simply post the winner in the square?

So, for the Paladin vs. Bard, put in Pal-14 instead of W-14...

Just a thought...

I had done that initially, but then people "complained" about the redundancy and that you could not easily count the victories in a row for a particular class.

I am partially satisfied with it how it is, but if you have suggestions for making things easier to read/understand please do not hold back.

[Ditto]

I like it just fine... you read left to right starting with the bolded names. Druid-->Win. Look above if you care to see who he beat. Seems simple enough...

Adding a final column at the end with the total number of Wins might be handy, as the tournament gets into its later stages, to quickly see the overall standings.

[Merlin the Tuna]

Adding a final column at the end with the total number of Wins might be handy, as the tournament gets into its later stages, to quickly see the overall standings.That's what the first table for.

And as for that pesky Divine Grace... Please don't tell me you forgot to try Fascinate. Save DC = Perform check? Nobody makes that, Divine Grace or not.

[Douglas]

Fascinate isn't really an option here: "The distraction of a nearby combat or other dangers prevents the ability from working." I rather think a combat that you are actually part of qualifies as "nearby".

[Ditto]

All you have to do is win initiative. No combat yet! :smallbiggrin: Even so, in a one-on-one, I'd say there would need to be *another* combat distracting you, so Fascinate away!

[Bender]

I don't think fascinate is a problem:
You walk around, preparing for battle, looking around to find your opponent, suddenly you hear some heavenly music, look around to see the Bard and are completely absorbed by his performance... taking of all your equipment suddenly seems to be a great idea

[Falconsflight]

Yes, but it says other dangers. Does this only include ones that are perceivable?

Becuase you came here to fight a certain somebody. You know that nobody else is there. So if you see a bard, you already know he's the enemy, thus a danger. But if the spell only means physical danger. I.e. the bard pulls a knife. Then go ahead, fascinate away.

[Leush]

I think it means all danger. Specifically I think it means, 'cannot be used in initiative having been rolled situations' to prevent the cheesy overpowering nightmaric combat bard. It would be good for bards but bad for everyone else otherwise. Besides, it means I have to use my brain.:smallwink: Which I have so far failed to do...

[Bender]

As long as one side is unaware, you’re not really in an “initiative have been rolled situation”. This is a special case where initiative has been rolled early on, but it doesn’t alter the situation.
I believe in the strong effect of music, which makes the subject briefly “forget” the fight he’s in. But I agree once the other guy is aware of the bard before he starts fascinating, it doesn’t work.
You might give a +4 circumstance bonus on the save against the fascinate effect, because the opponent knows there is a bard around, which of course is still nothing compared to the bard's assumed gargantuan perform bonus. You might also allow the opponent a new save every round, because there is a potential threat.

I agree that allowing/disallowing this has a huge influence on the possible outcome, but I like bards :smallbiggrin:

[Lord Lorac Silvanos]

Well, I highly doubt anyone enters these battles unaware and even if they don't perceive the Bard as much of a threat I do not think anyone totally disregards him.

Fascinate works wonders in the Inn and around the campfire, but that's about it.

[brian c]

Well, I highly doubt anyone enters these battles unaware and even if they don't perceive the Bard as much of a threat I do not think anyone totally disregards him.

Fascinate works wonders in the Inn and around the campfire, but that's about it.

Yeah, this is an arena battle situation; if the character is in here they know that it's for a fight. They're not going to just let their opponent sing to them.

[Merlin the Tuna]

Yeah, this is an arena battle situation; if the character is in here they know that it's for a fight. They're not going to just let their opponent sing to them.I was under the impression that there's some cat-and-mouse to be had early on. If a Bard succeeds on his Hide and Move Silently, I don't see any reason why Fascinate shouldn't work. This sounds almost like a case of "I make the saving throw, because I really don't feel like failing it."

Fascinate actually isn't that good in the inn, by the way. One target per three bard levels means you can't get a whole crowd very easily. What it is good for is taking care of guards -- you know, the guys that expect that trouble may be coming, but aren't actually in a combat situation.

[Meat Shield]

I was under the impression that there's some cat-and-mouse to be had early on. If a Bard succeeds on his Hide and Move Silently, I don't see any reason why Fascinate shouldn't work. This sounds almost like a case of "I make the saving throw, because I really don't feel like failing it."
I'm just trying to figure out how you can Move Silent while Fascinating someone.

[Merlin the Tuna]

I'm just trying to figure out how you can Move Silent while Fascinating someone.Hide and Move Silently until you're close enough to begin fascinating. Fascinate becomes the surprise round action. Simple enough.

[Meat Shield]

Yeah but the problem with that is since you know you are going up against the bard, and all of his abilities are going to be vocal in some manner, I would ready an action as soon as I step in the arena to attack/throw silenced whatever/etc the square the first sound I hear comes from.

Not to mention stuffing cotton in my ears. I might take the listen penalty for the save bonuses.

[Leush]

You see, this would work if originally the two were not aware of each other, if they're not concentrating. If you're taking care of a guard whose eating sandwich.

But here the characters know that they can be attacked at a moment's notice, that the rustle in the shrubbery- the momentary shadow behind the corner can mean certain death. They're aware of the presense of danger and therefore not in the right mindset. In a similar way that when you play hide and seek or manhunt, you might not know where they are but you know for certain that
they are there, and that if you hear the patter of fast moving feet, they're probably one of your fellow players trying for the 'safe zone'. In a similar way, if someone here hears music, they know that it isn't a random orchestra, but most likely a tool of the enemy.

[Ditto]

Fair enough reasoning if you wanted to take a precaution. But still, unless you signify you're actually doing something about it IC, then I'd say you're still fair game. In any circumstance, however, Silence is a cleric's friend. If he planned ahead enough to take Silent Spell, that's not a half-bad strategy... if it weren't for so many other useful things to do with feats. Well, maybe it's half-bad.

[Merlin the Tuna]

In a similar way, if someone here hears music, they know that it isn't a random orchestra, but most likely a tool of the enemy.Okay, good for you. If I know that your Bard has Charm Person, does that somehow make me immune to it because I don't like you? If I know that your bard has Minor Image, does that make me automatically pierce the illusions? Of course not. That's what saves do. It's why they exist in the first place; so we don't have to adjudicate things based off of "Nah, I don't feel like being affected by that." Fascinate just happens to have a really good save DC. The restrictions put in place point towards not being able to have one enemy sit still while your allies slaughter all of his companions -- not towards "this is utterly ineffective whenever the prospect of potentially engaging in combat is on a target's mind."

Does this make Fascinate very powerful? Certainly. It's also the signature ability of Bards in most fantasy. It's a core feature of the class; if you don't play it accordingly, well, I think I can tell you why you may fall into the camp of "Bards are weak and dumb." It's a great tool, especially in a one on one environment -- at least until Mind Blank enters the picture.

[Ditto]

^^^ ::nods:: :smallsmile:

[Marius]

Okay, good for you. If I know that your Bard has Charm Person, does that somehow make me immune to it because I don't like you? If I know that your bard has Minor Image, does that make me automatically pierce the illusions? Of course not. That's what saves do. It's why they exist in the first place; so we don't have to adjudicate things based off of "Nah, I don't feel like being affected by that." Fascinate just happens to have a really good save DC. The restrictions put in place point towards not being able to have one enemy sit still while your allies slaughter all of his companions -- not towards "this is utterly ineffective whenever the prospect of potentially engaging in combat is on a target's mind."


I don't agree, quote from the srd:


The distraction of a nearby combat or other dangers prevents the ability from working.

Since you are in an arena fighting for your life I would say that you can't Fascinate your opponent.

[Nahal]

Does this make Fascinate very powerful? Certainly. It's also the signature ability of Bards in most fantasy. It's a core feature of the class; if you don't play it accordingly, well, I think I can tell you why you may fall into the camp of "Bards are weak and dumb." It's a great tool, especially in a one on one environment -- at least until Mind Blank enters the picture.


Especially if it's followed by a suggestion to the effect of "those weapons and armor look heavy, why not take them off and ease your physical burdens while I take care of the spiritual ones."

[Bender]

There seems to be two camps here: does preknowledge prevent fascinate or not? A comparison: does the knowledge that the teacher is going to punish you prevent you from daydreaming (possibly about bards, who knows:smallwink:)? When the teacher suddenly hits your neighbour, you're not going to be daydreaming anymore. When the bard's ally suddenly stabs your neighbour, you're not going to be fascinated anymore...

Fascinate is a supernatural ability. A bards normal performance is usually so good it will fascinate any willing, unsuspecting crowd, you don't need magic to do that. Then why is it supernatural: maybe because it could also affect unwilling, suspecting creatures?

Anyway, is allowing fascinate to affect a creature that knows you are a threat that game-breaking? After all, suggestion is only a 3rd level wizard spell (one he can cast even when they are very, very obviously in the middle of killing each other), and fascinate on its own isn't a much bigger benefit then just winning initiative when you're alone. As Merlin the Tuna already stated, it is what bards do.

Personally I think the definition of ...and other dangers... can be interpreted in different ways.

[Ditto]

'Other dangers' are not combat. An empty arena is not dangerous until there are combatants in it. You're not combatants until fighting begins. Therefore, until one of you starts swinging (casting, blasting, whatever), there is neither combat nor 'other danger'.

Unless the arena is made of lava. That's totally dangerous.

[Draz74]

The bard's non-spell Fascinate ability is supposed to be so strictly limited to non-combat situations because of the rediculous "Save DC = skill check" piece of it.

A bard should certainly be able to fascinate an opponent that knows he's near a hostile bard and expecting combat. But only by using a spell, with a reasonable DC, not just a Bardic Music auto-win.

[Marius]

'Other dangers' are not combat. An empty arena is not dangerous until there are combatants in it. You're not combatants until fighting begins. Therefore, until one of you starts swinging (casting, blasting, whatever), there is neither combat nor 'other danger'.

Unless the arena is made of lava. That's totally dangerous.

You're in danger the moment the combat starts and the combat starts when you appear in the arena, it doesn't matter if your opponent haven't started to act yet. He's out there and he wants to kill you, that's a lot of danger if you ask me.

[The_Werebear]

It's not as if bards are particular powerhouses though. I would say that even if you know danger is around, so long as something isn't so dangerous it draws your attention you could be fascinated.

Example: A person knows they have a hit out on them, and assassins could be anywhere. Danger is all around, but no one is immidiately coming at him with weapons drawn. He would still be vulnerable to being fascinated by bard music. However, a bard couldn't fascinate this man while he was being pursued by a thug with a club aiming to crack his skull.

If this tactic is invalidated by even knowing there is danger about, then one of my favorite characters is invalidated. A Bard/Assassin who would lure people into an allyway with fascinate, then study for 18 rounds while they drool, then quickdraw a knife and death attack them.

[PinkysBrain]

Rules aren't nearly clear enough to determine it one way or the other, it's DM call. Let it go.

[SpiderBrigade]

You're in danger the moment the combat starts and the combat starts when you appear in the arena, it doesn't matter if your opponent haven't started to act yet. He's out there and he wants to kill you, that's a lot of danger if you ask me.In the D&D world, you're in danger all the time. Ethereal monsters could be all around you. I'm of the strict opinion that when the ability says you can't be distracted by combat or "other dangers," it means real tangible things you could be distracted by, rather than "I might come under attack at any time, hypothetically." So, lava, traps, barbarians running at you. Not "I'm on my guard!"

That said, this is opinion. The RAW don't spell out exactly what "other dangers" means, so it's up for interpretation.

[Marius]

In the D&D world, you're in danger all the time. Ethereal monsters could be all around you. I'm of the strict opinion that when the ability says you can't be distracted by combat or "other dangers," it means real tangible things you could be distracted by, rather than "I might come under attack at any time, hypothetically." So, lava, traps, barbarians running at you. Not "I'm on my guard!"

That said, this is opinion. The RAW don't spell out exactly what "other dangers" means, so it's up for interpretation.

It's not a hypothetical danger, it's a very real danger that's happening right now, not tomorrow, not the next hour, NOW. And it's not only that he's there in the arena trying to kill you, you are trying to kill him, you are in a combat with him, you don't care if he wants to sing, if he does you use the opportunity to kill him. If you allow the bard to use fascinate in that case, you should allow him to use it every time he's attacked by anything.

[SpiderBrigade]

If you allow the bard to use fascinate in that case, you should allow him to use it every time he's attacked by anything.
Hey, guess what, if no one else is attacking it, he can do that.

It's also not a danger that's happening "NOW." The bard could be anywhere. You might not SEE him for an hour or more, if he hides.

The problem with your interpretation is that it completely gimps fascinate. For instance, he's trying to get into a fortress guarded by some mooks. They're under instructions that anybody trying to get in there is an enemy. This is exactly the kind of thing fascinate is supposed to be for, but by your logic the guards would be on alert for "other dangers" and thereby too distracted.

Or, hell, by such a reasoning, it can get even more ridiculous. The bard is walking through the woods and comes face to face with a hungry wolf and its cubs. The mother would obviously see the bard as a threat, so by your logic Fascinate couldn't work.

Unless you can explain to me in what fundamental way "there's a bard in the area who wants to kill me" is different from "there's a guy right in front of me who I percieve as threatening my cubs," your logic indicates that the bard can almost NEVER use fascinate...unless maybe he's in a group of people who already trust him.


you are in a combat with him, you don't care if he wants to sing, if he does you use the opportunity to kill him.Again, this makes the ability unusable except against people who are friendly to the bard. By such logic, if you want to kill the bard, he can't fascinate you. And that makes fascinate USELESS. If you're in a situation where people are willing to hear you out, you can use social skills to get what you want.

Again, it's up to personal interpretation of what "other dangers" means. You think it means something much broader than I do.

[Ditto]

Funny story, I've seen a bard fascinate a dire wolf into helping him look for something in a solo-tournament.

This also means that if you're in a volcano, you can't be fascinated. Even if you're singing a catchy jingle for Ahmed's Ice Water Emporium, just around the bend!

[Jade_Tarem]

This also means that if you're in a volcano, you can't be fascinated. Even if you're singing a catchy jingle for Ahmed's Ice Water Emporium, just around the bend!

A good point, but I can think of one song that might do the trick in a volcanic environment:

"It's gettin' hot in here... so take off all your gear..."

[PinkysBrain]

Anyway, is allowing fascinate to affect a creature that knows you are a threat that game-breaking?Of course it is, almost unbeatable DCs.

After all, suggestion is only a 3rd level wizard spell (one he can cast even when they are very, very obviously in the middle of killing each other), and fascinate on its own isn't a much bigger benefit then just winning initiative when you're alone.
Normally you get a save, after you have been fascinated that save effectively goes away.

[Bender]

Normally you get a save, after you have been fascinated that save effectively goes away.

You get a separate save for the suggestion. for a low-level bard, it's about the same as the spell, for middle and high level bards is comparable to the DC of middle or high level wizard spells that make you *suck*, *lose* or *die* even harder.

[PinkysBrain]

You get a separate save for the suggestion. for a low-level bard, it's about the same as the spell, for middle and high level bards is comparable to the DC of middle or high level wizard spells that make you *suck*, *lose* or *die* even harder.
Effectively. Think with me here, what good is a save on a spell when he can just keep trying to cast it over and over again without any chance of you breaking free from fascinate in the mean time?

The save effectively goes away.

[Bender]

Effectively. Think with me here, what good is a save on a spell when he can just keep trying to cast it over and over again without any chance of you breaking free from fascinate in the mean time?

The save effectively goes away.

ah... I assumed the bard could only try the suggestion once, but on closer inspection it doesn't say that. I would only allow one try anyway I think, otherwise, what's the point of the save...

[Ditto]

You can try casting Suggestion more than once... or Deep Slumber... or Fireball, for that matter...

Now that I think about it, look at turning. That's a terrifically powerful class feature - I'd argue on par with bardic music. If you look at it across the levels, it begins with 4+ uses and gets progressively more powerful along with the cleric. Also, bardic music doesn't have the chance to *vaporize* the targets. (The last time a character of mine turned, IIRC, he destroyed 15 skeletons and made a wight flee.) And this is a cleric's *secondary* class feature.

[Piccamo]

How about we all stop hijacking the thread and let it be used for its initial purpose? Who gives a damn about your "interpretations" of the rules? The only ones that matter are those of the DMs of the events. If you really want to go on about bard mechanics, make a new thread for it.

[Merlin the Tuna]

How about we all stop hijacking the thread and let it be used for its initial purpose? Who gives a damn about your "interpretations" of the rules? The only ones that matter are those of the DMs of the events. If you really want to go on about bard mechanics, make a new thread for it.Indeed, the ones that matter are those of the DMs. That's why we're trying to convince them they're doing it incorrectly -- so that we can view the data collected in this competition as relevant. No need to be snippy about it.

As far as using Suggestion multiple times... the rules certainly are hazy on it. The line "A bard of 6th level or higher with 9 or more ranks in a Perform (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/skills/perform.htm) skill can make a suggestion (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/suggestion.htm) (as the spell) to a creature that he has already fascinated (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/classes/bard.htm#fascinate)," could certainly be parsed as "can make a suggestion" (as in, a single suggestion) rather than "can make suggestions." I don't think that'd be unreasonable in the least; one request should be enough. Mass Suggestion also mentions "can make the suggestion simultaneously to any number of creatures," which reinforces this idea.

As a result, I'd lean towards "The Bard can make one suggestion during a fascinate effect. This suggestion can be made to any creature he is currently fascinating. At 18th level, the Bard can make this suggestion to all of the creatures he is currently fascinating." Plus all the talk of save DCs and requisite Perform ranks and whatnot.

[Ditto]

I'd say it just means one suggestion at a time - theoretically, you could stack a bunch of reasonable suggestions into something ridiculous if you were clever about it. 'The' suggestion is just saying you get one suggestion per casting - thus the equivalent would be one suggestion per bardic music use.

[Lord Lorac Silvanos]

Indeed, the ones that matter are those of the DMs. That's why we're trying to convince them they're doing it incorrectly -- so that we can view the data collected in this competition as relevant. No need to be snippy about it.


Fascinate used under these circumstances is the equivalent of an attack and the Bard is furthermore viewed as an an enemy and a danger.
(Unless the contestant facing the Bard states otherwise, of course :smallamused:)

Unless you can provide errata or a FAQ entry that redefines Fascinate to work under such conditions my ruling is not going to change.

[Logic]

Fascinate should not work with anyone that is hostile (by the RAW). No Bard is going to try to use his Fascinate ability first. All the stories of a bard fascinating someone that was hostile, he made the equivalent a diplomacy check first to get them less aggravated towards him. Then, he has the ability to Fascinate someone.

So in the case of Bard vs Paladin, if Fascinate would be permitted to work (Since Lord_Silvanos has already decreed no) the bard should make a diplomacy check first to increase the mood of the paladin.
Since 1) Diplomacy is broken and 2) Player characters decide their own actions and moods, it just doesn't work.

[Krill]

Have there still only been two battles? And when do we get the battle reports?

I think this contest is a fascinating idea - more updates please!

[Charity]

Has Rigeld2 not had his first fight yet?
I got money riding on that cleric.
Your public expects Rigeld don't disappoint us.
...
How much did you say would secure the win again Silvanos?
*counts bills*

[Lord Lorac Silvanos]

Have there still only been two battles? And when do we get the battle reports?

I think this contest is a fascinating idea - more updates please!

Quietus is working hard on the first one and I am sure Logic is planning some interesting questions for his interviews.


Has Rigeld2 not had his first fight yet?
I got money riding on that cleric.
Your public expects Rigeld don't disappoint us.
...
How much did you say would secure the win again Silvanos?
*counts bills*

Rigeld2 is in the middle of it right now and "contact" has been made, so you better count faster Charity. :smallamused:

[Charity]

*fingers bluring*
Why did have to be in such low denominations?
*waves generic cleric flag*

Edit - Hang on, if I'd known you were French...
hey man no sweat, tis all in jest

[Rigeld2]

Your public expects Rigeld don't disappoint us.
le sigh.

This is the reason I didnt want to do what I'm doing now... but I'm having fun, so all you naysayers can go pphhbbbbbbt! :p

[Jade_Tarem]

Just a note: "contact" has been made in fight 3 as well, using a very loose definition of "contact."

[Seffbasilisk]

Actually...just a thought...but you know how you can intentionally fail any skill check? Why not intentionally fail all of your listen checks? It's the equivelant of putting your Ipod on max before you go sword-swinging, but less chance of getting them pulled out of your ears by vigorus movement.

And if you can't hear...a bard's screwed.

[Jade_Tarem]

I don't think it works that way for passive skills. You can, of course, stuff wax in your ears or something... but this conversation is dead.

Edit: Although a Fighter with an iPod would be funny.

iPod of Sonic Distortion: This curioius device clips on to your belt or sash, and has curious plugs that go into your ears. While wearing them you take a -10 penalty on listen checks and must make a concentration check (DC: 10 + level of spell) to cast a spell. While you wear the earplugs you have a 90% chance to avoid the effect of any attack or spell that relies on the target hearing it, such as Wail of the Banshee. You are also required to make a will save each day or gain a point of taint, since everyone knows that your music sucks. Once per day you are also permitted to speak a command word and turn into a black, morphic, two-dimensional shadow for 5 rounds, during which time you will be forced to act as if under the effects of an Otto's Irresistable Dance spell. Also, given the effect, these devices seem unreasonably expensive.

iPod of Sonic Distortion moderate transmutation. Cost to create: Cacophonous Roar, Blindness/Deafness 10,165gp + 813xp. Market Price: 20,330gp.

[Quietus]

Quietus is working hard on the first one and I am sure Logic is planning some interesting questions for his interviews.


Yep, unfortunately I had a minor world-explosion recently. What I had worked out, I lost - but no worries, reflex save has been made, and once the world respawns (it's working on doing so right now, actually), I should have this worked up for you.

By the way, how would you prefer to work this, once I finish up the story versions? Should I simply post them into this thread, email them to you, or what?

[Nahal]

And if Quietus needs help I'm happy to provide it; I'm no professional writer but I'm a fair hand with phrasing and seasoning text.

[Draz74]

Unless you can provide errata or a FAQ entry that redefines Fascinate to work under such conditions my ruling is not going to change.

DM hath spoken.

[Merlin the Tuna]

Unless you can provide errata or a FAQ entry that redefines Fascinate to work under such conditions my ruling is not going to change.Both are silent on the matter. When I have a bit more free time, I'll try to get a best-3-out-of-5 from CustServ. Again, I question the need to "redefine" Fascinate so much as to clarify it, but eh, whatever.

[Lord Lorac Silvanos]

Yep, unfortunately I had a minor world-explosion recently. What I had worked out, I lost - but no worries, reflex save has been made, and once the world respawns (it's working on doing so right now, actually), I should have this worked up for you.

Sorry to hear about the world, but good to know it re-spawns, just like that.


By the way, how would you prefer to work this, once I finish up the story versions? Should I simply post them into this thread, email them to you, or what?
If you post them here I will make a link from the second post in this thread. :smallsmile:

[Lord Lorac Silvanos]

Both are silent on the matter. When I have a bit more free time, I'll try to get a best-3-out-of-5 from CustServ. Again, I question the need to "redefine" Fascinate so much as to clarify it, but eh, whatever.

I doubt that even Customer Service will fall for that, but the question does require a little more interpretation than a standard rules question, so I will keep my fingers crossed that they do not trip.

Disclaimer: I will of course disregard any ruling made by Customer Service as they are not recognized as an authority on rules questions.

However, should they come back with an answer that they claim are backed up by Andy Collins (or another designer from the revision team), saying the intent was for Fascinate to work even on people you are about to engage in deadly combat and that knows you want to use their intestines for new strings on your instrument, I will personally investigate this further.

[Quietus]

Sorry to hear about the world, but could to know it re-spawns, just like that.

Not just like that... you'd be shocked and appalled at the horrific rituals that had to be completed to force the world to reform once more.

.... *Mutters something about spawn campers*

[Lord Lorac Silvanos]

Update: The blood is now flowing in our 5th Battle also.

[Leush]

Hmm... Is the next round starting once all of the battles from this round have been completed?

[Lord Lorac Silvanos]

It might start earlier, if the last 3 battles take more time than expected.
I would like to evaluate a bit on the format and hear what can be done to improve it.


I also think that Quietus should have a chance to produce the first story-fication.

[Raool]

Update: The blood is now flowing in our 5th Battle also.

And it is not mine. :smallyuk:

[Jade_Tarem]

Hey! The only reason no blood has been shed in Fight 3 is because all of Draz 74's wounds are cauterized.

[Lord Lorac Silvanos]

Right...... :-p

[Inyssius Tor]

How much info will the participants have on their opponents by round 2? If you're going to release a fluffy epiculated story of each match, then presumably the participants will be able to read these; if they can, then would it hurt significantly to provide a very skinned-down transcript of each battle? A transcript that leaves out some game-specific portions, such as the exact attack and damage rolls on the dice (just showing the total damage, and if an attack hits); basically, with whatever the story can have, but somewhat flavorless for faster reading and writing?

Needless to say, I'd jump at the chance to do this (and fill in the redacted portions when metagaming would no longer be a concern).

Not that I'll get the go-ahead on this or anything, but it's always worth a shot :smallsmile:.

[Katonta]

And it is not mine. :smallyuk:

Darn Barbarians and their d12 hit die! My squishy body doesn't like you and you won't like my squishy body soon! Threats aside, I'm glad the fight has finally picked up and is much more exciting than it was a few turns ago.

[Sundog]

So, who's winning?

[Rigeld2]

Pinky is annoying me. Either that, or Lord S is annoying me. Or both. :p

[PinkysBrain]

Things are hotting up :)

[Rigeld2]

Things are hotting up :)
Man I hope so... I just want it over now, wether I win or lose :p

[Variable Arcana]

Wow, these battles are taking a while.

How many rounds along are the unfinished battles?

[Lord Lorac Silvanos]

10+ and things might be very close to being over in a few of them.

I might be able to give an update a little later with some surprising development....

[Hamster_Ninja]

Hey, I totally saw The_Werebears mother today and she was entirely on fire. [/thrashtalk] So any guesses as to when Round 2 will be starting, oh great Silvanos?

[Lord Lorac Silvanos]

We have the result of the 4th battle.....

Some might call it a surprise.....




As for round 2 (or the 6-10th battles); The first (of the next 5) will start when Quietus has the 1 st battle description narrowed down or when these first 5 battles are over. Whatever comes first.

I hope Stickman is still interested in this project and might be willing to DM the 6th battle, but we shall see.

[Variable Arcana]

Well? Don't keep us in suspense. The fighter beat the cleric?! Tell us more!

[Rigeld2]

I wasnt prepared for the right scenario, let me put it that way, without giving up any information for his future opponents.

[Saph]

I wasnt prepared for the right scenario, let me put it that way, without giving up any information for his future opponents.

Damn it, Rigeld! I was betting on you to win! You'd better turn it around for the later fights. :P

- Saph

[Jade_Tarem]

Ranger may win his fight too, for the same reason + a rash of bad luck for me. It's not over yet, but I mostly blame myself.

[Lord Lorac Silvanos]

I wasnt prepared for the right scenario, let me put it that way, without giving up any information for his future opponents.

Couple that with a few bad rolls and things suddenly starts to look difficult.

I don't think he was prepared for your special tactics either though, but he can tell us himself.


There are still 8 battles, so a lot can happen.

However, I think everyone will be revising tactics after their first battle.

[Variable Arcana]

Wow. I guess primary casters really don't start to dominate until after level 10...

[Jade_Tarem]

Wow. I guess primary casters really don't start to dominate until after level 10...

A lot depends on a number of extra situations as well. I can't say any more about it without giving away Draz 74's tactics, which would be lame and unfair.

Edit: It is generally considered that primary casters start to dominate after level 6.
Edit2: Also, Rigeld2 has publicly stated twice that his is not the standard clerical cheese build. Despite his loss, that actually scares me more than if he was claiming to be CoDzilla the Magnificent.

[Draz74]

A lot depends on a number of extra situations as well. I can't say any more about it without giving away Draz 74's tactics, which would be lame and unfair.

Thank you for your discretion, my honorable nemesis. :smallwink:

Yeah, I'm pretty proud of my tactics. Though I will freely admit that I've been very lucky too ... not with my die rolls, which have been unremarkable, but in terms of how the pre-duel guessing metagame went.

Of course, it's not over yet (heh, very much not over yet!) and I'm not counting my chickens before they hatch.


Edit2: Also, Rigeld2 has publicly stated twice that his is not the standard clerical cheese build. Despite his loss, that actually scares me more than if he was claiming to be CoDzilla the Magnificent.

Amen, amen.

Edit: Wait, Fireballs??? The Fighter took out the Cleric with Fireballs??? And the Druid got hit with a Fireball for 7 damage in his fight too? Now I'm really confused.

[Rigeld2]

Wow. I guess primary casters really don't start to dominate until after level 10...
Keep thinking that. After the battles are over and builds are revealed, if you still think that...

[Jade_Tarem]

Edit: Wait, Fireballs??? The Fighter took out the Cleric with Fireballs??? And the Druid got hit with a Fireball for 7 damage in his fight too? Now I'm really confused.

And fireballs in our fight too! They seem to be a hot item.

*Ducks as the throwing of rotten fruit accompanies the drum hits*

[The White Knight]

Edit: Wait, Fireballs??? The Fighter took out the Cleric with Fireballs???

It's not the presence of fireballs that frightens me - that's easy to get. It's the pluralization of the word where it's used (in a standard action) that frightens me.

[Cyborg Pirate]

Edit: Wait, Fireballs??? The Fighter took out the Cleric with Fireballs??? And the Druid got hit with a Fireball for 7 damage in his fight too? Now I'm really confused.

...my interest in this contest just went from "curious" to "the battlereport better be coming fast or I'm going to have to ritually mutilate someone" :smallwink:

[Variable Arcana]

Wow. I guess primary casters really don't start to dominate until after level 10...
Keep thinking that. After the battles are over and builds are revealed, if you still think that...
I was actually thinking arcane casters when I wrote that -- divine casters may be earlier. I would have thought arcane casters start to dominate somewhere between 7th and 10th level -- but definitely by 10th. On the other hand, it's starting to sound like the druid may be the only primary caster who won his first duel...

Of course, if the Rogue wins by UMD'ing scrolls of ninth level spells, for example, or through another high-cost "blow all my level-based wealth on one fight" tactics... then perhaps we shouldn't conclude as much from this.

(What did PinkysBrain do? I'm picturing a necklace of fireballs getting detonated all at once...)

[Lord Lorac Silvanos]

Of course, if the Rogue wins by UMD'ing scrolls of ninth level spells, for example, or through another high-cost "blow all my level-based wealth on one fight" tactics... then perhaps we shouldn't conclude as much from this.


Items are restricted both by CL (10) and GP limit (30 % of wealth / 14700 GP).

[PinkysBrain]

I rolled very very lucky, I rolled high when I had to ... and more importantly I rolled low when I had to as well. If the cleric had assigned his spells just slightly differently I would not have been able to get in position for the attack I used (I can't say what spell he should have had because I still face too many spellcasters and batmans).

IMO assuming everyone gave the SRD magic item section a good read through the favorites for this contest go cleric->druid->rogue->bard.

The cleric is batman (magic domain) and has free maximized spells.

The druid also has free maximized spells and his animal companion.

The rogue is batman with evasion and good damage potential.

The bard is batman without evasion and the hardest time doing damage.

In the meantime I'll settle for lucky though :)

[Leush]

Well, I'm glad one of the underdog classes has done a worthy deed.

As for the bard being batman: The bard is batman. But is a batman with a dumbass player worth?

[Jade_Tarem]

I have to agree with Leush, about the player. Had I substituted just one spell for another this duel would be going very differently - very possibly it would be over by now. And the existing duel isn't over just yet, but far too much is being left to the dice now for my liking.

[Variable Arcana]

Items are restricted both by CL (10) and GP limit (30 % of wealth / 14700 GP).
Ah. Good -- I missed that. The 30% limit wouldn't block what I was thinking about, but the CL:10 definitely does.

[Rigeld2]

I have to agree with Leush, about the player. Had I substituted just one spell for another this duel would be going very differently - very possibly it would be over by now. And the existing duel isn't over just yet, but far too much is being left to the dice now for my liking.
Same here... 1-2 spells different and it would have been a totally different match. I just prepared for someone without Fireballs. :p

[Katonta]

I, unfortunetely, am leaving town today due to the fact that I am a minor and that my folks don't like me staying home for a couple days alone. I should be back late Thursday, maybe early Friday. Internet? probably not. I'll pick up my actions again when I get back. Which means you, Raool, get a little rest.

[Raool]

Bummer....

[Jade_Tarem]

"And then, as the sorcerer brought forth the full power of his magic and the barbarian swung his mighty axe, time inexplicably froze for 72 hours."

To be continued...:smalltongue:

[healbot42]

You really shouldn't let this get off the first page, I hate looking for it.:smallwink:

I'm really curious as to how the fighter got fireballs. There is only 1 way that I can remember for a fighter to get fireballs, but telling would be rude.

[Shisumo]

You really shouldn't let this get off the first page, I hate looking for it.:smallwink:

I'm really curious as to how the fighter got fireballs. There is only 1 way that I can remember for a fighter to get fireballs, but telling would be rude.

Well, 6 ranks of UMD, SF: UMD and Magical Aptitude are good for a total modifier of +11 before Charisma bonuses. That puts the DC 20 of wand activation in fairly easy reach...

[Ditto]

Or A necklace of fireballs isn't that expensive, either... it would have been sort of funny if he grappled the guy and detonated them all at once.

[Variable Arcana]

Even funnier if the Cleric had Protection from Fire active...

Another entertaining permutation would be if the Cleric was *wearing* a Necklace of Fireballs, and the fighter sundered it.

[Katonta]

I'm back. Had a pretty good trip, the only bad part was unpacking. Got in pretty late last night but my actions are in and I'm ready to rumble.

[The White Knight]

You really shouldn't let this get off the first page, I hate looking for it.:smallwink:

Subscribe to the thread?

[nivek1234]

Subscribe to the thread?

BAH!! That would be the easy way.

[healbot42]

Subscribe to the thread?

I can do that?:smallconfused:

Awesome.:smallbiggrin:

[Lord Lorac Silvanos]

Things have taken an interesting turn of events in our 3rd battle and the Ranger's animal companion is now the 3rd smartest creature in the arena.



I added a couple of items to the Hall of Fame/Shame list.

[Fax Celestis]

Hey, Silvanos, d'you think we could do a Battle of All Classes after this one's over?

[Lord Lorac Silvanos]

Yes, I think we should do something like that.

[Variable Arcana]

Things have taken an interesting turn of events in our 3rd battle and the Ranger's animal companion is now the 3rd smartest creature in the arena.
Wow!

Did the Wizard make his fort. save, or is he now a 9th level wizard?

[Fax Celestis]

Yes, I think we should do something like that.

Sweet. Dibs on Spellthief. ;)

[Spiryt]

Wow!

Did the Wizard make his fort. save, or is he now a 9th level wizard?

May I ask what you meant? Or will it reveal too much?

[Lord Lorac Silvanos]

Sweet. Dibs on Spellthief. ;)

I will make a mental note of that :smallwink:


May I ask what you meant? Or will it reveal too much?

Feel free to speculate :smallamused:

[Spiryt]

Animal which drains levels with hit? :smalleek:

Draz, you fiend, what have you feed it with??:smallwink:

[Quietus]

Human flesh, obviously. :smallbiggrin:

[martyboy74]

Human flesh, obviously. :smallbiggrin:
That makes no sense!

I must've have been Mind Flayer flesh. They're much more intelligent, and can eat brains.

[marjan]

Things have taken an interesting turn of events in our 3rd battle and the Ranger's animal companion is now the 3rd smartest creature in the arena.



I added a couple of items to the Hall of Fame/Shame list.

I guess someone doesn't have familiar anymore... and it's not the Ranger.:smallamused:

Draz74 you should realy pick someone of your size.:smalltongue:
(If I'm not wrong with familiar)

[The White Knight]

May I ask what you meant? Or will it reveal too much?

Heh, I don't think it'd reveal anything anyone with the ability to read wouldn't already have access to. There were four creatures in the arena, and the animal companion was the least intelligent - next up would be the oft-forgotten familiar (unless we're dealing with a particularly dim Ranger); when the familiar died (gasp!), our spellslinging friend had to make a Fort save or lose XP, as per the rules outlined in the familiar entry. Since we start at the bare minimum XP for our level, this could spell level loss on a poor roll. That's my interpretation based on what has been mentioned, at least.

[Draz74]

I guess someone doesn't have familiar anymore... and it's not the Ranger.:smallamused:

Draz74 you should realy pick someone of your size.:smalltongue:
(If I'm not wrong with familiar)

So, hypothetically, what will you speculate if the next news item is, "The animal companion is now the second-smartest entity in the Arena"? And no, "the battle is over" isn't the right answer.

There, that ought to keep everyone guessing.

[marjan]

So, hypothetically, what will you speculate if the next news item is, "The animal companion is now the second-smartest entity in the Arena"? And no, "the battle is over" isn't the right answer.

There, that ought to keep everyone guessing.

Statement that involve "feeble" "you" "mind" and "INT 1". Though more interesting turn of events would be if we substitute word "you" with word "wizard" but that would probably negate the "the battle isn't over".

Edit: Come on, finish the battle. I'm eager to see results.

[The White Knight]

Heh, this IS interesting.

[Variable Arcana]

Good grief.

It's bad enough that the fighter and monk are using fireballs... are you trying to tell us that the ranger is using feeblemind (or ray of stupidity... or int-damaging poison) -- and has multiple uses?

Edit: I suppose it's also possible that the monkey-animal-companion succeeded in "disarming" the wizard of his headband of intellect +8, and put it on, out of curiosity... making it (perhaps?) smarter than the wizard's familiar?

[marjan]

Good grief.

It's bad enough that the fighter and monk are using fireballs... are you trying to tell us that the ranger is using feeblemind (or ray of stupidity... or int-damaging poison) -- and has multiple uses?

Yes, this is as bad as it gets if the wizard is the one with less then 2 INT. But Ray of Stupidity isn't core and only core poison I can find is ingested. And if Draz74 managed to switch wizard's potion of healing with poison I would raise my hat to him.


I suppose it's also possible that the monkey-animal-companion succeeded in "disarming" the wizard of his headband of intellect +8, and put it on, out of curiosity... making it (perhaps?) smarter than the wizard's familiar?


That would be nice picture to see.

[Jade_Tarem]

Edit: I suppose it's also possible that the monkey-animal-companion succeeded in "disarming" the wizard of his headband of intellect +8, and put it on, out of curiosity... making it (perhaps?) smarter than the wizard's familiar?

Sweet merciful modifiers, what kind of game do you think Silvanos is running here? A headband of INT +8 is an epic item. If we had access to that kind of gear it wouldn't be called the Core Class Battle, it would be called the "ELH Item Optimization Battle."

If you look at the rules (publicly posted, I feel no shame for revealing this), a +2 ability boosting item is as big as they get. A +4 or +6 item is within our starting gold, but both break the "maximum wealth % spent on one item" rule.

Although... the image is funny. "Ahh, get this monkey off my head!"

[Katonta]

Well, so far, Raool's and I's battle have long passed the "longest battle". How are you doing, by the way, Raool? you holding up ok? Am I being an annoying enough thorn in your side or should I dig a little deeper?

[Piccamo]

Sweet. Dibs on Spellthief. ;)
I call dibs on the warlock :smallcool:

[Zincorium]

I could go for duskblade, personally, but we'll probably have to apply after this is all over and there's a new contest started, hopefully one that's ran as professionally as this one has been.

The maps are good, people are using really inventive tactics, and there've been enough upsets to the supposed order of things that it's stayed interesting.

[Quietus]

I'd like to call dibs on cavalier, should it be allowed in the next one.

Also, I'd like to apologize for the descriptive write-ups having taken so long. I currently have rough drafts done for three of the fights, but I'd like to tweak them before posting. I've been hit with a lack of cash, and so job searching has been taking up most of my time, unfortunately.

[Latronis]

Wait the fighter beat the cleric?

AWESOME

but huh?

[Raool]

Well, so far, Raool's and I's battle have long passed the "longest battle". How are you doing, by the way, Raool? you holding up ok? Am I being an annoying enough thorn in your side or should I dig a little deeper?

Well I almost killed you once so you're allowed to poke my side for now.

[Jade_Tarem]

If we do the next battle among all base classes, I call Swashbuckler. If it's among all classes up to level 13, I call Initiate of the Sevenfold Veil. If it's among all classes up to level 15 or higher, I call Wu Jen Air Elemental Savant.

I'm so mean.

[marjan]

If we do the next battle among all base classes, I call Swashbuckler. If it's among all classes up to level 13, I call Initiate of the Sevenfold Veil. If it's among all classes up to level 15 or higher, I call Wu Jen Air Elemental Savant.

I'm so mean.

Just curious. What's so special about Wu Jen at lvl15.

[healbot42]

Just curious. What's so special about Wu Jen at lvl15.

Last time I DMed a game with a Wu Jen Air Elemental Savant it turned into a giant, flaming tornado and destroyed the dungeon.

[The Black Prince]

Could anyone tell me where the battles are taking place, also it might be good to add the links to the table like (link)Monk vs. Fighter(/link)

[marjan]

Last time I DMed a game with a Wu Jen Air Elemental Savant it turned into a giant, flaming tornado and destroyed the dungeon.

I've got to try that myself sometime. Maybe with smaller town or something.:smallamused:

[Lord Lorac Silvanos]

Due to Fog of War you cannot see the actual battles. (If the battles could be seen there would not be much point in hiding etc.)

Quietus is however preparing battle reports for the already completed battles as we speak.

[Draz74]

Could anyone tell me where the battles are taking place, also it might be good to add the links to the table like (link)Monk vs. Fighter(/link)

The battles are taking place in private emails. Because anywhere else would allow the combatants to learn too much about each other.

[brian c]

I call dibs on the warlock :smallcool:

Is there actually going to be an expanded version of this, with all classes? Including prestige classes? If so, I call Barbarian/Bear Warrior. :) If there are no PrCs then meh

[Jade_Tarem]

I've got to try that myself sometime. Maybe with smaller town or something.:smallamused:

Yeah, healbot42 was my DM when that happened. But he got part of it wrong - only my eyes were on fire, the rest was perfectly normal colossal intelligent tornado.

[The White Knight]

Originally posted here (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/newreply.php?do=newreply&p=2278449):


When the current battle was getting started, someone suggested a Decathlon-type gauntlet to run each character through...

You might imagine something like (say, at 5th level):
1) Kill an ogre.
2) Get across a toll bridge, without paying (guarded by a hostile troll)
3) Acquire a treasure item (from a locked, trapped chest guarded by half a dozen goblins)
4) Defend a dozen commoners from four zombies
5) Chase down and capture a fleeing kobold (who has a five round headstart)
6) Beat a hobgoblin archer with boots of levitation
7) Escape from a 15'x15'x15' pit
... etc...

The idea is that they aren't all combat, address a variety of situations, and each permit a variety of solutions (e.g. diplomacy, stealth, or combat to get past the troll or jumping, climbing, or levitation to get out of the pit...)

I really like the sounds of this sort of idea. Do you suppose you might be willing to try one of these as a follow-up to this competition, Silvanos? I'd love to run my Paladin test-drone through something like that.

[The_Werebear]

I am up for that.

[Jade_Tarem]

Same here - I'd be happy to run through the gauntlet.

The characters may need some adjustment, to take them off of "PC killing mode." - That is, if we want the most accurate results possible.

[Lord Lorac Silvanos]

It sounds like the idea has some merit.
If I can find enough (good) ideas to really test the different class features I would be glad to do it.

[Falconsflight]

Is the second round ever going to get started or what?

[Rigeld2]

Not everyone is done with the first round.

[Zincorium]

What I'm personally curious about is whether the matches are either taking a really long time, in terms of rounds, or whether there is simply a very slow interchange of PMs in between participants. If the second, I'd wonder if there is a way of making things more efficient so the schedule problems or decision time of the people involved will have less of an effect.

It's been 24 days since the plan was posted, if in both remaining matches there has been less than one round per day exchanged on average, that'd both be incredibly slow in terms of interaction and it would be a dramatic increase in rounds expended over the other matches.

[Rigeld2]

I know my 10-11 rounds took about a month. Weekends happen, Spring Break was in there, etc. While this is a fun intellectual exercise, and also the first thing I check on every morning, and about 10 times a day, it would in no way stop me from going out on the town to spend time with friends.

[Lord Lorac Silvanos]

No the wolf is too smart for the Wizard and both the Barbarian and Sorcerer has suddenly taken a Vow of Non-Violence.

We are at round 20+ in both matches and we are awaiting the actions of the Ranger and sorcerer with great excitement at the moment....
It is a bit unfortunate that the longest battles were also the ones I started last. (We are doing about a round a day at the moment I think.)

I was planning on starting the Rogue-Druid battle shortly in any case.
I have waited because I would like to have input from the participants to how we could make this run smoother.

I wanted to wait until the battles were over but we might as well evaluate now.

So, how do you like the format and what do you think could be done to improve it?

[Raool]

Maybe there should be some kind of crediting for replying fast. Credit which could be consumed when one doesn't reply for a long time. I don't know what could happen when you run out of credit.
Of course this would only add to the complexity of the whole thing making it even more complicated.

[Rigeld2]

And what would the credit be for?

[Lord Lorac Silvanos]

People presumably have other things to do in their lives and as long as they reply regularly I do not see a problem even if this means only 4 rounds a week.
There has to be room for breaks and weekends etc.

There has not been any problems so far. A few have forgotten that it was their turn, but I simply send a friendly reminder and they responded soon after.
(I have even sent friendly reminders a couple of times where it was not necessary, so please do not be offended if you receive one if you have just posted, they do not mean anything.)


After this 1st round the intention was to have battles run continuously, so there will be almost no waiting time between battles (unless the participant needs one).

The other DMs will also come into play assuming they still have time and interest. (I have not seen Stickman around for instance)

[Piccamo]

If everyone is within a few timezones of one another you could get a chat-room or IRC channel and do it there.

[Nahal]

The problem with IRC is that since it's PvP players want to conceal certain actions or aspect thereof. I don't think it's fair for the rogue to have to broadcast to his opponent that he's making a hide + move silently check to get behind him unnoticed. Or the wizard may not want his enemy to know exactly what spell he's casting. Unless the GM is willing to run an IM conversation per character and do a ton of typing, it's a pain in the butt.