alter self question

[bjoern]

I was looking into using this spell for my caster to gain flight (surprise). I found the avariel which as far as I can tell is only in 3.0. I was then looking at the winged template in savage species (which is also 3.0) winged template looks preferential because I can keep my natural armor bonus and size bonuses that way, and is less clunky RP wise.

It would be nice to find something that is 3.5but if i can't whatever.

Alter self says you can turn into a creature of your own race, or even yourself. Could I alter self into myself with the winged template?

Under winged template it says that speed and maneuverability are based on your base Land speed and dex respectively. Flight speed is +20' of base land speed

If I have expedious retreat on myself (base land speed is now 60) and then alter self into a winged version of myself, is my flight speed50' or 80'?
ER says it doesn't change other modes of speed, which it doesn't at the time the spell is cast, it changes my base land speed. Winged template says that your flight speed is your base land speed +20'.

Should they have used different words other that "base land speed" for winged template? Maybe like natural or unmodified base land speed?

What do you think?

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

Your answer is right in the spell's description: "You cannot take the form of any creature with a template..."

3.0 material is officially still usable in 3.5, though if it was reprinted in 3.5 then you would use the most recent version. Avariel is still a valid form for Alter Self in a 3.5 game.

[yoshi67]

From the SRD:

Your creature type and subtype (if any) remain the same regardless of your new form. You cannot take the form of any creature with a template, even if that template doesn’t change the creature type or subtype.

Unfortunately, you cannot Alter Self into a template.

As for the wording of Expedious Retreat, I think they meant unmodified natural land speed, but I might be worth asking your DM if you can apply it to flight speed if you get the ability to fly.

[bjoern]

Ha, must have looked right past it in my hunt to track things down.
Hide in plain sight much
Looks like avariel is the only option for a humanoid with flight I assume? Or did I look past one somewhere?

Thanks

[Crake]

Should they have used different words other that "base land speed" for winged template? Maybe like natural or unmodified base land speed?

Just to answer this part of your question (since the other bit was covered), that is what base land speed means. Your normal, unmodified land speed, the "base" that you use when calculating your land speed. Expeditious retreat doesn't increase your base land speed, it adds a bonus to it, giving you a modified land speed

[Cranthis]

Raptoran, Races of the Wild.

[Gavinfoxx]

http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=343.0

Avarial, Races of Faerun, do not have a template; they are simply a race of winged elves. And they work FINE in a 3.5e game.

[AnonymousPepper]

Yeah, Avariel works. I've used it in games before, it's rather nifty.

Basically between Avariels - for flight - and Trens - for everything else (Serpent Kingdoms, natch; +8NA, swim speed, 30ft movement if you don't already have it, natural weapons, etc.), you never need to look at any other Alter Self forms.

[Gavinfoxx]

Sure you do! Kobolds for fitting into small places, Varag for running, Asabi for Burrow, Skulk for sneaking, etc. etc. etc.

[AnonymousPepper]

Sure you do! Kobolds for fitting into small places, Varag for running, Asabi for Burrow, Skulk for sneaking, etc. etc. etc.

...okay, fine. >_>

I still maintain that Tren is best form.

[Gavinfoxx]

Well, yea. I'll agree with that!