Taking 10 and taking 20

[Jermz]

Is there any sort of resource which breaks down which skills can be used with take 10 and take 20? Thanks.

[Fuzzy McCoy]

There is! It's found here (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?355562-quot-Can-I-Take-10-quot-Table-of-sourcebook-examples-mentions-of-taking-10).

[Jermz]

Awesome. Looks like the list is only for taking 10, but it's a start. If anyone knows of any other resources, please post them. Thanks.

[Jowgen]

Taking 20 doesn't really need a list because taking 20 is literally attempting to use the same skill in the same way 20 times (which means you take 20 times as long).

The rule for taking 20 is simple and straight forward: If a skill check can be retried without risk or penalty, then you can take 20 with it.

Every skill description states whether a check with it can be retried without consequences.

As for taking 10, I hope that really well made list helps :smallbiggrin:

[Chronos]

Note that taking 10 is mostly governed by the situation, and not by the particular skill. You can't take 10 with Use Magic Device, and maybe not with one or two other specific skills, but other than that, you can take 10 with any skill, provided you're not in combat or a similarly stressful situation.

[chaos_redefined]

Taking 20 doesn't really need a list because taking 20 is literally attempting to use the same skill in the same way 20 times (which means you take 20 times as long).

The rule for taking 20 is simple and straight forward: If a skill check can be retried without risk or penalty, then you can take 20 with it.

Every skill description states whether a check with it can be retried without consequences.

As for taking 10, I hope that really well made list helps :smallbiggrin:

Not quite true. Everyone's least favourite skill (Truespeech) has no penalty on failure (so, no problem with trying over and over again until it works), but you explicitly can't take 20 on a Truespeech check, according to ToM.


I don't get it either.

[Millennium]

Not quite true. Everyone's least favourite skill (Truespeech) has no penalty on failure (so, no problem with trying over and over again until it works), but you explicitly can't take 20 on a Truespeech check, according to ToM.
Doesn't the Law of Resistance kick in? Truespeech is an odd duck in that there's a penalty for success, rather than failure, but I believe we can still fit it into a rule of thumb. Here's my attempt: Imagine that you're a Level 1 character, with 1 rank but no other relevant bonuses, attempting a DC 15 check with the skill.
You roll 20 times, getting the numbers 1-20 in that order. Neither the 1 nor the 20 are considered natural for this purpose.
Don't stop when you succeed. Even if a roll less than 20 indicates success, you still go back and do it again until you finish the full set of 20 rolls.
If nothing bad happens to you during this, then you can take 20.
This catches the Truespeech issue, because something bad happens: as soon as you succeed once, later rolls get harder. You'll pass Rolls #14, #16, #18, and #20, but you'll actually fail #15 and all the odd-numbered rolls after it.

[Segev]

Doesn't the Law of Resistance kick in? Truespeech is an odd duck in that there's a penalty for success, rather than failure, but I believe we can still fit it into a rule of thumb. Here's my attempt: Imagine that you're a Level 1 character, with 1 rank but no other relevant bonuses, attempting a DC 15 check with the skill.
You roll 20 times, getting the numbers 1-20 in that order. Neither the 1 nor the 20 are considered natural for this purpose.
Don't stop when you succeed. Even if a roll less than 20 indicates success, you still go back and do it again until you finish the full set of 20 rolls.
If nothing bad happens to you during this, then you can take 20.
This catches the Truespeech issue, because something bad happens: as soon as you succeed once, later rolls get harder. You'll pass Rolls #14, #16, #18, and #20, but you'll actually fail #15 and all the odd-numbered rolls after it.

That's likely WHY you can't take 20. Once you succeed with any value on the d20, you will do worse if you roll the same number again. So if you "take 20," your total when you finally roll that 20 depends on how many times you succeeded before you got it.

Honestly, though, unless there are rewards for succeeding better than minimum, "taking 20" with Truespeaking rolls really just means "I keep trying until I succeed once." If at least a nat 20 is enough to succeed, you should treat it as working. I could be forgetting rules that make succeeding "more" (that is, getting a 30 instead of a 25, when the DC was 23, for example) produce better results.

[chaos_redefined]

There's no benefit for succeeding harder. So, nope. Also, they have the extra-retarded rule of automatically succeeding on a natural 20. So, given approximately 20 attempts, they will succeed. But you can't just keep trying until you succeed.

It's almost like the truenaming section of ToM was written by people who didn't quite understand the game.

[Chronos]

Also, they have the extra-retarded rule of automatically succeeding on a natural 20.
Can you give a page number for this?

[Jowgen]

Can't we just all pretend Truenaming never happened... :smallfrown:

[Skevvix]

Also, they have the extra-retarded rule of automatically succeeding on a natural 20.

There is no such rule for skills. A nat 20 is only an auto-success on attack rolls and saves. Like-wise, a nat 1 is only a failure on saves and attacks.