How many nonabilities can you get on one creature?

[Deadkitten]

So how many nonabilities can can you get onto a single creature?
Is there some weird combination of templates and monsters that will remove most of a creatures stats as being relevant?

Such as an incorporeal undead swarm perhaps?

[StoneCipher]

I can only imagine the horrors of a bee/spider ghost swarm.

[dascarletm]

are there any insects that are stationary, and thus wouldn't have a dex score.

[torrasque666]

I think the least we've managed to get was all but Wis/Cha, as without those its an object.

A dustformed shrieker has only Wis/Cha and non-abilities for everything else.

[Fax Celestis]

are there any insects that are stationary, and thus wouldn't have a dex score.

Formian Queens have neither STR nor DEX scores.

An Effigy Formian Queen would have STR, DEX, CON, and INT --, and still be a corporeal construct.

Now how do we get rid of those pesky WIS and CHA scores?

[StreamOfTheSky]

Now how do we get rid of those pesky WIS and CHA scores?

You can't. Not without voiding what the OP was asking for.


Wisdom describes a character’s willpower, common sense, perception, and intuition. While Intelligence represents one’s ability to analyze information, Wisdom represents being in tune with and aware of one’s surroundings. Wisdom is the most important ability for clerics and druids, and it is also important for paladins and rangers. If you want your character to have acute senses, put a high score in Wisdom. Every creature has a Wisdom score.


Charisma measures a character’s force of personality, persuasiveness, personal magnetism, ability to lead, and physical attractiveness. This ability represents actual strength of personality, not merely how one is perceived by others in a social setting. Charisma is most important for paladins, sorcerers, and bards. It is also important for clerics, since it affects their ability to turn undead. Every creature has a Charisma score.

Having or not having Wis/Cha is actually one of the only...if not *the only* RAW ways of determining if something is a creature or not.

[Phelix-Mu]

Well, since the OP specifies creature, I think they need to have Wis/Cha, since the book pretty much says outright that all creatures have those abilities.

Now, if we have a plant, it is an object, so might be able to be said to not have either of those, but plant creatures generally don't share this exemption.

Thus, I'd say that, while there are likely dozens of ways to achieve it, a creature can have at most FOUR nonability scores.

[Deadkitten]

So if one were to remove Wisdom and Charisma to make it an object, would it still be able to function as an encounter for PC's? Or would it just sit there in the corner doing nothing?

[Inevitability]

Someone already managed to think of one:


A Crypt Spawn Dream Element Shrieker works though.

[CarpeGuitarrem]

So if one were to remove Wisdom and Charisma to make it an object, would it still be able to function as an encounter for PC's? Or would it just sit there in the corner doing nothing?
Isn't that called a "trap"? :smallwink:

[StreamOfTheSky]

It's off-topic, but it is an interesting note that Plants (not plant creatures) are possibly the only things in the game with the distinction of being both Living and an Object. That means, among other things, that plants are actually immune to the Disintigrate spell. The spell either does damage to a creature or instantly removes a 10 foot cube of nonliving matter. Not fitting either scenario, the tree withstands it just fine.

Shame clerics don't get disintigrate (well, good clerics won't have it, at least), it could've been a funny rules joke w/ Durkon and his fear of trees.

[Fax Celestis]

It's off-topic, but it is an interesting note that Plants (not plant creatures) are possibly the only things in the game with the distinction of being both Living and an Object. That means, among other things, that plants are actually immune to the Disintigrate spell. The spell either does damage to a creature or instantly removes a 10 foot cube of nonliving matter. Not fitting either scenario, the tree withstands it just fine.

Shame clerics don't get disintigrate (well, good clerics won't have it, at least), it could've been a funny rules joke w/ Durkon and his fear of trees.

I'm imagining a Blighter with a Wizard cohort who goes around awakening trees so his cohort can disintegrate them.

[Chronos]

Note that, while the categories of "creature" and "object" are disjoint and exhaustive (that is to say, everything is either a creature or an object but never both), "object" and "item" are not synonymous, and a creature can be an item (such as an intelligent weapon, which incidentally lacks Str, Dex, and Con).

[Mcdt2]

Weeeeeeeeeeeeell...

So in Dragon Magazine 287, there's an (incredibly poorly thought out) template called Dream Element Creature. The poorly thought out bit? It nulls the creature's Wisdom score, but NOT its Charisma.

No I have no idea how that's supposed to work. Null Charisma is one thing (perhaps the creature has literally no concept of self, and considers everything around it be one entitiy, of which it's a part?) Odd, but possibly workable. Null Wisdom though... are they just incapable of sensing anything at all?

Besides that, even the best possible defense for such a being to be a creature (specific trumps general, maybe?) is shaky at best.

But assuming this somehow works, put it on a Shrieker, apply Dustform (can't apply any undead, since Dream Elements are, shockingly enough, Elemental (Dream) type). Now you have a "creature" with only a Charisma score of 1 and Null in everything else.

Enjoy your "nightmare about a dust bunny that wails like a banshee" encounter. It's even CR 4, though it lacks anyway to harm the party unless they are incorporeal, and then only if they are dumb enough to touch it, seeing as it can't aim a breath weapon when it can't notice the party is there.

[ZamielVanWeber]

Now I am curious if there is a low ECL way to wipe out all of someone's physical ability scores. Probably not, but still it would be hilarious. All hail Rockius, the best thinker.

[Ettina]

"Null Wisdom though... are they just incapable of sensing anything at all?"

I thought you could also have null stats if you're piggybacking off of someone else's stats (like being mind-controlled and therefore having your thinking done by someone else). So maybe he can only perceive something someone else is sensing, instead of sensing things himself.

Or maybe, because he's a dream creature, he can only perceive dreams, not anything real.

[PraxisVetli]

So, what happens when we take a Dream Element Dustform Shrieker, and slap the Symbiot Template with it on a PC?

[Chronos]

PCs must have at least a 3 Int.

[Hazrond]

PCs must have at least a 3 Int.

Nah you see the shrieker is the HOST :smalltongue:

[Optimator]

Isn't that called a "trap"? :smallwink:

Haha, well put.

[Chronos]

Traps aren't even the only noncreature encounters. A forest fire, a river of lava, extreme weather conditions, or a mysterious letter written in code can all be encounters. Heck, a peaceful forest, a river of trickling water, clear blue skies, or an easily-understood postcard can all be encounters, too, albeit probably not worth XP.