Banning 3.5, thoughts?

[Hazrond]

I had a silly idea that I think would be fun, all official races, classes, and familiars/animal companions (which I personally think r cool) are banned, instead you have to get homebrew approved by the DM and play that, seems to shenanigans could ensue, thoughts?

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

That wouldn't even be playable, assuming all the official spells and feats are banned as well. Most of the homebrew that wasn't designed as a standalone game was intended to fill in the gaps that the official material doesn't cover. You would be removing skills like Spot, Listen, Hide, Jump, Swim, etc. Furthermore, does this mean you wouldn't be using any WotC monsters or any official material for NPCs? You would be better off just finding a different d20 system RPG (Conan (http://www.amazon.com/Conan-Roleplaying-Game-d20-Fantasy/dp/1904577695/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1407515272&sr=1-1&keywords=conan+d20+rpg), Warcraft (http://www.amazon.com/World-Warcraft-Roleplaying-Game-d20/dp/1588467813/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1407515290&sr=1-1&keywords=warcraft+d20+rpg), AGoT (http://www.amazon.com/Game-Thrones-D20-Based-Open-Gaming/dp/1588469425), etc.).

[IAmTehDave]

That wouldn't even be playable, assuming all the official spells and feats are banned as well. Most of the homebrew that wasn't designed as a standalone game was intended to fill in the gaps that the official material doesn't cover. You would be removing skills like Spot, Listen, Hide, Jump, Swim, etc. Furthermore, does this mean you wouldn't be using any WotC monsters or any official material for NPCs? You would be better off just finding a different d20 system RPG (Conan (http://www.amazon.com/Conan-Roleplaying-Game-d20-Fantasy/dp/1904577695/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1407515272&sr=1-1&keywords=conan+d20+rpg), Warcraft (http://www.amazon.com/World-Warcraft-Roleplaying-Game-d20/dp/1588467813/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1407515290&sr=1-1&keywords=warcraft+d20+rpg), AGoT (http://www.amazon.com/Game-Thrones-D20-Based-Open-Gaming/dp/1588469425), etc.).

You missed everything about the OP. No feats, skills, or spells are banned. Just Races, Classes, and base Familiars.

Honestly? I think it might be interesting to see what people bring to the table. (And you'd definitely have to police what people are using.)

[Amphetryon]

I had a silly idea that I think would be fun, all official races, classes, and familiars/animal companions (which I personally think r cool) are banned, instead you have to get homebrew approved by the DM and play that, seems to shenanigans could ensue, thoughts?

My thoughts immediately turn to Lightning Warrior (http://www.myth-weavers.com/wiki/index.php/Lightning_Warrior)

[bekeleven]

My thoughts immediately turn to Lightning Warrior (http://www.myth-weavers.com/wiki/index.php/Lightning_Warrior)

Some people run homebrew-only in the pbp forums. I saw one a couple months back where nearly every submitted character was an evolutionist or ozodrin. Although if it were run today I'd expect a Teramach or three.

I generally dislike tier 1 as a balance point, so I don't understand why people make more tier 1 classes. But, to each his own.

[IAmTehDave]

I generally dislike tier 1 as a balance point, so I don't understand why people make more tier 1 classes. But, to each his own.

I agree. I'm much more a fan of weird, offbeat stuff. If I were in a game like this, it'd be Soulknife (http://www.minmaxboards.com/index.php?topic=1128.0) all the way.

[Phelix-Mu]

I had a silly idea that I think would be fun, all official races, classes, and familiars/animal companions (which I personally think r cool) are banned, instead you have to get homebrew approved by the DM and play that, seems to shenanigans could ensue, thoughts?

I like this idea. I would like a chance to playtest my Tier 2-ish homebrew, or another chance to playtest one of my two choice monk fixes (T.G. Oskar and Xaotiq1, respectively) in another game. This time maybe for more than a couple months.

Of course, an irl or skype/live internet game would be even better. PbP can be a brutally slow place to hash out some of the sure-to-come disputes or confusion about how said homebrew works.

[bekeleven]

As a side note, you can ban races, classes, the majority of feats, and most spells in the PHB if you want, as part of an effort to make a splat-only system. I wrote up a general guide on what you still needed once. The most work would be figuring out what non-core feats and prestige classes had core prerequisites you should keep.

[Hazrond]

You missed everything about the OP. No feats, skills, or spells are banned. Just Races, Classes, and base Familiars

Pretty much the idea right here

[Threadnaught]

I had a silly idea that I think would be fun, all official races, classes, and familiars/animal companions (which I personally think r cool) are banned, instead you have to get homebrew approved by the DM and play that, seems to shenanigans could ensue, thoughts?

"We've done this!" - Colonel John "Jack" O'Neill

Yeah, a game where all official Classes and Races are banned, either for the players' use or altogether, is a thing anyone comfortable enough with their skill here has thought about trying. I actually have a folder in my favourites bar just to keep track of approved homebrew. That sucker is a nice easy way to get to anything players have asked to play.


The key word I use is comfortable, not experienced, nor skilled. Comfortable.

[Psyren]

What's to stop me from homebrewing "Not-Sorcerer" that uses the sorcerer list? Or just the best spells from said list? At some point you'll have to ban spells, because spells are the whole reason most T1 classes are where they are.

[Hazrond]

What's to stop me from homebrewing "Not-Sorcerer" that uses the sorcerer list? Or just the best spells from said list? At some point you'll have to ban spells, because spells are the whole reason most T1 classes are where they are.

What stops you is the "approved by DM" clause

[Coidzor]

There's a fair number of E6 and, I believe now, P6 classes. You could definitely play something, even if you were stuck with going with E6 to have a complete game/world/setting made out of Homebrew.

There's oh so very many fixes, retoolings, revamps, rejiggerings, reduxes, re-re-ings, etc. of the base classes, especially the CORE base classes, that you're pretty much set, though would be more or less obligated to try to use a matched set if possible to avoid drowning in options. I'm especially fond of Fax Celestis' "Mantle" Paladin, which basically had one way to make, of all things, Eric Cartman from South Park as a Paladin (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?194888-d20r-Eric-Cartman-Mantle-Paladin).

There's also great original gems like the Xenoalchemist, Tetramach, Ozodrin, or Harrowed that do pretty well.

There's a couple of ToB homebrew settings with decent homebrew classes that could adequately replace the ToB classes and, thus, the majority of mundane martial types from the canon.

[Psyren]

What stops you is the "approved by DM" clause

So I either brew or find so many "Not-Sorcerers" that eventually one gets through. And I bring the entries in hard-copy so they can't be ctrl+F'ed for "cast spells from the X list," where X are the spells I want to cast.

[Hazrond]

So I either brew or find so many "Not-Sorcerers" that eventually one gets through. And I bring the entries in hard-copy so they can't be ctrl+F'ed for "cast spells from the X list," where X are the spells I want to cast.

Well then the DM didn't do his homework did he?

[...]

I had a silly idea that I think would be fun, all official races, classes, and familiars/animal companions (which I personally think r cool) are banned, instead you have to get homebrew approved by the DM and play that, seems to shenanigans could ensue, thoughts?

Everyone would play as a Bonus Feat and the entire game would be broken at level two.

[Psyren]

Well then the DM didn't do his homework did he?

Which is the silliness of the entire concept. There's already a system that has been thoroughly homework'd by designers, players and even other DMs alike, and it's called 3.5. If you're going to ban {homebrew I want to play} then I'm either going to find the closest homebrew I can to realize the thing I want to do or not play at all. And even if I do find an example of the former that both parties can 100% agree on, that's still going to take lots of pointless research from each side that could have simply gone into taking an existing class and removing the offending bits.

[Hazrond]

Everyone would play as a Bonus Feat and the entire game would be broken at level two.

People really like to miss the "approved by DM" clause don't they?

[toapat]

Everyone would play as a Bonus Feat and the entire game would be broken at level two.

not really. there are amusing things you can do with the bonus feat but there are lines of personal work people are not willing to cross. The bonus feat starts out with having to do mind numbing book diving for feats and eventually becomes a god by virtue of just having too many rerolls, hp, saves, skills, and the equivalent of quadruple 9s.

Sure, once you are there its fun.

Until that point i dont see anyone willing to pick feats like they pick spells in that way

[Psyren]

People really like to miss the "approved by DM" clause don't they?

"DM approval!" is not a silver-bullet solution for homebrew because the amount of community review over homebrew is vastly smaller than that for published material. Other than the truly big-name stuff you're basically on your own.

[daremetoidareyo]

So I either brew or find so many "Not-Sorcerers" that eventually one gets through. And I bring the entries in hard-copy so they can't be ctrl+F'ed for "cast spells from the X list," where X are the spells I want to cast.

Why not sit that game out, seeing as how it doesn't seem to be generating the imaginative results the DM was trying to facilitate?

If one wants to be a sorcerer, they can play a sorcerer in a different campaign. This 'hack' is only effective if it is harder for the DM to say, "No" than it is for the PC to constantly re-engineer spell lists.

In reality, this sort of behavior is antagonistic to the central idea being put forth by the OP and the absence of a "play to win" player would be a boon to the creativity attempted to be fostered here.

Sure, some players like what they like... But unless geographic isolation is an issue, minus one player isn't that big of a deal. Especially with how selfish that sort of behavior seems.

[Fax Celestis]

I'm especially fond of Fax Celestis' "Mantle" Paladin, which basically had one way to make, of all things, Eric Cartman from South Park as a Paladin (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?194888-d20r-Eric-Cartman-Mantle-Paladin).

Oh god I forgot about this. You just made my day again.

[Jormengand]

"DM approval!" is not a silver-bullet solution for homebrew because the amount of community review over homebrew is vastly smaller than that for published material. Other than the truly big-name stuff you're basically on your own.

I think that the DM should be competent enough to ban the not-sorcerer and the bonus feat. Being "on your own" is not actually a problem.

[Elderand]

What's to stop me from homebrewing "Not-Sorcerer" that uses the sorcerer list? Or just the best spells from said list? At some point you'll have to ban spells, because spells are the whole reason most T1 classes are where they are.

Yeah first off the OP wanted a fun variant and did not talk at all about tier 1 or balance or anything.

So you're coming at him needlessly antagonisticly for something he didn't even mention.

Basicly you're being an asshat raging over a strawman.

There is nothing wrong with playing a game like the OP describe.

[Psyren]

I think that the DM should be competent enough to ban the not-sorcerer and the bonus feat. Being "on your own" is not actually a problem.

None of this addresses the core issue. If you're banning, say, a cleric, then how is the party accessing the key functions (like decursing, ability restoration, healing, buffing and resurrection) that the cleric brings to the table? Do you only use monsters whose abilities are simple/weak enough that they don't have to worry about that stuff? Do they find a "not-cleric" homebrew class that has a different chassis, but can do the same things? If you ban sorcerer/wizard, does the party then find a homebrew class that can grant people buffs like haste/flight/invisibility, as well as divinations? In a nutshell, what is this meant to accomplish?


Why not sit that game out, seeing as how it doesn't seem to be generating the imaginative results the DM was trying to facilitate?

If one wants to be a sorcerer, they can play a sorcerer in a different campaign. This 'hack' is only effective if it is harder for the DM to say, "No" than it is for the PC to constantly re-engineer spell lists.

In reality, this sort of behavior is antagonistic to the central idea being put forth by the OP and the absence of a "play to win" player would be a boon to the creativity attempted to be fostered here.

Sure, some players like what they like... But unless geographic isolation is an issue, minus one player isn't that big of a deal. Especially with how selfish that sort of behavior seems.

In case it wasn't totally clear, I was not seriously suggesting the player show up with reams of paper to try and blind their DM into letting something through. I didn't have to paint that blue, did I? :smalltongue:



Basicly you're being an asshat raging over a strawman.

{{redacted}}
I decided against stooping to your level and resorting to namecalling/taunting, so I've edited the above. I gently suggest you do the same.

[...]

People really like to miss the "approved by DM" clause don't they?

I didn't miss it, I just assumed that it would be approved. If you said, the DM will not approve the Bonus Feat, than I would not talk about people breaking the game with it.

[Knaight]

I had a silly idea that I think would be fun, all official races, classes, and familiars/animal companions (which I personally think r cool) are banned, instead you have to get homebrew approved by the DM and play that, seems to shenanigans could ensue, thoughts?

It's a bit gimmicky - though using some of the bigger e6 compliations (such as Gnormans) or a particular set of classes (the d20r ones) or whatever could work a lot better.

[toapat]

i think the problem is, as its been said, the largest homebrew will probably see more play then the interesting stuff.

that, and i dont really see anything as fun as trying to work out how to work a Paladin//Spellthief with SowZ's Pointbuy Gestalt (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?365051-Tier-Balance-Gestalt-Proposal)

[gooddragon1]

Shazam! (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?312102-Imagine-a-homebrew-only-pbp)

That might give you an idea of other responses.