Prestige Classes

[Prophet_of_Io]

I believe we'll have prestige classes on DMG.

I hope really hard that PrCs won't replace class features, but add to them, much like 4e paragon paths.

This quote was what started me on this train of thought: Will we get prestige classes in the core three? More to the point, do we need them?

Now I have and will always be in favor of specialized high tier classes like Paragon Paths and prestige classes. I certainly would be excited about receiving them but I don't recall anything confirming their return. If I'm wrong I would gladly accept evidence to the contrary. Even without them though I'm not convinced there's a lot we'd miss. Lets assume we'll get them but they'll be close to the classic set we saw in 3.X/Pathfinder. Lets look at what we'd need.

Arcane Archer-Neither Fighter nor Ranger actually brings out the flavor of this enough. I tried to think up an Eldritch knight brew but maybe this does have its own place.
Assassin-Covered in the PHB as a rogue subclass
Blackguard-Confirmed as covered in the DMG but as a paladin subclass
Dwarven Defender-Maybe I'm missing something but this seems simple enough to just build as a fighter.
Lore master-it may have its own place but bard and wizard don't seem to need this kind of help
Shadowdancer-This, I feel, the monk has taken over.
Arcane Trickster-Covered in the PHB as a rogue subclass
Archmage-This might have its place. I'm not sure what it would entail that would make it more appealing than wizard 20 but sure. I'd hope that any magical class could benefit from this though.
Dragon Disciple-While the sorcerer could go more Gish dragon Mage I'm not sure it needs to. Ill always take more dragon stuff but Dragonborn Sorcerer seems to do this fine.
Duelist-there are builds that imitate this just fine already.
Eldritch Knight-Covered in the PHB as a fighter subclass
Hierophant-Druids and Clerics already feel like they get plenty of distinction with their deities/paths. Not sure if this is necessary but I suppose it could be worth having.
Horizon Walker-Rangers with geographical advantages are already present.
Mystic Theurge-You can multiclass but something to draw the two together could be nice.
Red Wizard-This...is surprisingly flavorful considering that Forgotten Realms seems to be the default setting this time around.
Thaumaturgist-a class for former clerics summoning extra planar allies does seem fun so, sure. Pass.

Going back up my list I really only see 4 or so that I think we could really benefit from with maybe 3 others I wouldn't mind if we got. If there's one I'd like to see added something akin to Eldritch Theurge would be nice. A mix or pact magic and spell casing besides straight multiclassing.

So, prestige classes. Will we get them? Are they even necessary? What roles would still need help? Disagree with any of my PrC assessments? Comment below.

[1of3]

I bet against it. Mearls has hinted about the DMG several times: spell points, healing, modifying races and classes, domain rules... But nothing of Prestige classes.

Arcane Archer was a feat in the playtest.

[Yuukale]

That's why I suggested 4e style PrCs. Back in 3.xe we needed to give up whatever we'd get in our classes in order to specialize in something.
With "added" features, we don't need to worry about what we'd give up, plus, it'd prevent PrCs cherry-picking and the infinite combinations/dips some people thought of as issues (I myself just find it unelegant design).

I could envision something like:

extra proficiency in a skill from the following list <insert list of skills related to the PrC>
it could also be extra prof. in an armor or tool depending on the prc.
extra abilities at levels x, y and z. Much like an additional archetype.
Once you choose a PrC you cannot choose another.


I bet against it. Mearls has hinted about the DMG several times: spell points, healing, modifying races and classes, domain rules... But nothing of Prestige classes.

Arcane Archer was a feat in the playtest.

I'm game with feats like those. The problem being how often you're able to take a feat (and sometimes you just want to buff your abilities).
I see PrCs as further specializations, that add other special abilities that a feat by itself would be a too tight chassis.

[Tholomyes]

Don't think we'll have them, or need them. The design space is already there in the form of subclasses. The only issue is it sort of locks it to a single class, but, if they ever come out with the Big Book o' Subclasses, they can probably devote some of the book to giving subclasses of the same theme to different classes. For example, a Shadowdancer rogue subclass could be made, rather than the monk's "way of Shadows"

[T.G. Oskar]

If I recall correctly, Arcane Archer was, in one of the playtests, treated as a feat. As you mentioned, Blackguard will probably be a Paladin "Sacred" Oath, the Way of Shadows apparently makes explicit mention of "Shadowdancers" as being their representation, the Eldritch Knight is a Fighter Martial Archetype and the Arcane Trickster is a Roguish Archetype. The Draconic Sorcerous Origin most likely will deal with Dragon Disciple as well.

As for the rest:
Archmage difficult to see, but could be the name for the Generalist Wizard school.
Dwarven Defender probably a Fighter Martial Archetype, focused on defense.
Duelist I honestly see it as a feat as per Arcane Archer, since it could easily be a good way to mix Fighter and Rogue. Alternatively, a Fighter Martial Archetype or Roguish Archetype.
Hierophant The Druid has it pretty much integrated, considering the Hierophant was originally meant to replace the last few levels of Druid (when they stopped being the Archdruid).
Horizon Walker Either a feat or a Ranger Archetype.
Loremaster College of Lore caught part of it, and the Sage background the fluff part.
Mystic Theurge Highly unlikely, due to the multiclass rules. But, if necessary, a feat.
Red Wizard This really smells like Background. No ifs, buts or ands. Alternatively, as I suggested in another forum, a School of Wizardry.
Thaumaturgist Hard one. It focuses on Planar Ally, which has traditionally been a Cleric spell, but definitely feels like the Wizard's Conjuration spell got the most out of it.

So yeah: Prestige Classes were fun, but their time passed. Not even Pathfinder is taking them seriously. The way to homebrew will be to make new subclasses and feats, and if there's a concept that's varied enough to work, then set it as a new class. For example: a Psion can be a new class, a Samurai won't, and a Marshal...desperately needs to be one.

[TheOOB]

The vast majority of the purpose served by prestige classes is now served by(for lack of a better term) archtypes, they allow you to specialize your character and give unique abilities without requiring an entire class.

Making a prestige class that advances the core classes abilities would be pointless, we have that already, the only real reason to have them now is to have a new class that you can't start at level 1 as.

I'm not opposed to the concept of something like paragon paths or epic destinies a 'la 4e, that was one of the parts of that system I liked.

[Morty]

I don't think prestige classes are an idea they should repeat. They did serve as a band-aid on 3e's suffocatingly restrictive character generation, but while 5e isn't much less restrictive, sub-classes are probably still better at that. At least you don't have to reach level six before you can hope to maybe take a single level in them. In the end, prestige classes were an extremely bloated system element that filled splatbooks with a lot of chaff, some broken options, and occasionally an actually good one once in a while. Of course, them being a bad idea doesn't mean 5e won't include them, but so far we haven't heard anything, so I think they might really be gone.

[Nagash]

I liked prestige classes as a way to add versatility without a full multiclass rather then just a power boost. I wouldnt mind seeing them return in that capacity.

[Falka]

I'm actually wondering if we don't have too much options already in the PHB. I think that the DMG will probably teach DMs how to create subclasses (hence why the Blackguard will be there, as an example).

[Prophet_of_Io]

I'm actually wondering if we don't have too much options already in the PHB. I think that the DMG will probably teach DMs how to create subclasses (hence why the Blackguard will be there, as an example).

That sounds very much in the vain of what we've seen the DMG will look like. Plenty of Variants and "How to Homebrew"'s. Kind of like an Unearthed Arcana, which I'm not sure I hate.

[Malifice]

I'd like to see something like them, but instead of classes of their own, they appear more like 'gestalt' classes.

In effect you remain in your parent class, but get a set of abilities that layer over the top of your standard class features (and in addition to them).

[ImperiousLeader]

I think Feats and Subclasses are doing most of what Prestige classes can offer, so while I'm not opposed to them, I'm not seeing the need either.

[Malifice]

I think Feats and Subclasses are doing most of what Prestige classes can offer, so while I'm not opposed to them, I'm not seeing the need either.

Prestige feats?

Feats with Prestige class fluff/ RP requirements to obtain.

[ImperiousLeader]

Prestige feats?

Feats with Prestige class fluff/ RP requirements to obtain.

... That's doable. Can even do that with core feats, it is, after all, DMs discretion. Spell Sniper might be only taught at a specific college of magi. Add a background style benefit to indicate the PC belonging to that organization.

[rlc]

I'm not opposed to the concept of something like paragon paths or epic destinies a 'la 4e, that was one of the parts of that system I liked.


I'd like to see something like them, but instead of classes of their own, they appear more like 'gestalt' classes.

In effect you remain in your parent class, but get a set of abilities that layer over the top of your standard class features (and in addition to them).

i also thought of epic destinies (which would be the gestalt option, so i'm responding to both quotes here). they'd probably start off at either level 5 or 11, due to the way that the tiers of play are set up, so they should be named and designed accordingly.

[Malifice]

i also thought of epic destinies (which would be the gestalt option, so i'm responding to both quotes here). they'd probably start off at either level 5 or 11, due to the way that the tiers of play are set up, so they should be named and designed accordingly.

Yeah man, sort of how the Mythic rules in PF work.

A pseudo gestalt series of abilities that stack over the top of your class.

[PinkysBrain]

I've always thought paragon paths/epic destinies were a much better idea than prestige classes and archetypes (and I don't even like 4e).

[rlc]

Yeah man, sort of how the Mythic rules in PF work.

A pseudo gestalt series of abilities that stack over the top of your class.

yeah, it could actually be pretty awesome, depending on how they do it. say they make it kind of like a prestige class where you have to meet certain conditions on top of just reaching a certain level. i'm not saying they should be super specific like some of those requirements were, but i think it would be good to reward people for good roleplaying. maybe look at it as a stronger version of backgrounds that you work up to instead of start with.