St Fan
2014-08-09, 05:21 AM
I was about to post in the RAW Q&A thread about a specific case (namely, the Axiomatic Creature spell from BoED) but then I realized there was a much more generic question underneath.
What happen when a spell affect a specific range of creatures (for example, Charm Person or Enlarge Person which affect solely humanoids) and a character who is under said spell change to another type unaffected by it?
For example, if a charmed spellcaster cast a Polymorph spell on himself to help his "friend", an his type is no longer humanoid, is the charm still working?
The question would be a lot more prevalent with permanent spells. With the aforementioned Axiomatic Creature, it affect "One corporeal creature of lawful or neutral alignment that is native to the Material Plane." The last part isn't likely to change, but alignment sure does. What if the axiomatic creature becomes chaotic? What if it IS a chaotic creature that was temporarily switched to neutral by a magical effect when the spell is initially cast on it?
The way I see it, there are three possibilities:
1) The spell still work whatever the form as long as the subject was fitting the condition during initial spellcasting. (Big, big gamebreaking potential ahead.)
2) The spell is broken since the subject no longer fits its requirement. (Less chance of misuse, though creative players might use it to dispel/break spells in some unexpected way. Can put a serious damper on some Permanency combo.)
3) The spell is supressed. As it was cast on a creature fitting its requirement(s), it sticks, but as long as the creature is of an unfitting nature, its effects no longer work. Returning to normal and the spell effects work anew if its duration isn't expired.
The third position seem to the most logical and less risky of game-breaking, at least IMO.
There are some precedents, for example the fact that most shapeshifter returns to their true form when killed.
Which open a sub-topic of this discussion, in fact: a dead character is no longer a creature but an inanimate object (a corpse). So, one has to wonder what happen to spells that where cast on it while living.
The way I understand it, being killed and resurrected doesn't wipe out permanent spells on the character. (Raise Dead even mention that magical diseases and curses aren't neutralized; it can easily be extrapolated to other magical effects...)
This can have some interesting consequences for those prestige classes that result in a change of creature type, though.
What happen when a spell affect a specific range of creatures (for example, Charm Person or Enlarge Person which affect solely humanoids) and a character who is under said spell change to another type unaffected by it?
For example, if a charmed spellcaster cast a Polymorph spell on himself to help his "friend", an his type is no longer humanoid, is the charm still working?
The question would be a lot more prevalent with permanent spells. With the aforementioned Axiomatic Creature, it affect "One corporeal creature of lawful or neutral alignment that is native to the Material Plane." The last part isn't likely to change, but alignment sure does. What if the axiomatic creature becomes chaotic? What if it IS a chaotic creature that was temporarily switched to neutral by a magical effect when the spell is initially cast on it?
The way I see it, there are three possibilities:
1) The spell still work whatever the form as long as the subject was fitting the condition during initial spellcasting. (Big, big gamebreaking potential ahead.)
2) The spell is broken since the subject no longer fits its requirement. (Less chance of misuse, though creative players might use it to dispel/break spells in some unexpected way. Can put a serious damper on some Permanency combo.)
3) The spell is supressed. As it was cast on a creature fitting its requirement(s), it sticks, but as long as the creature is of an unfitting nature, its effects no longer work. Returning to normal and the spell effects work anew if its duration isn't expired.
The third position seem to the most logical and less risky of game-breaking, at least IMO.
There are some precedents, for example the fact that most shapeshifter returns to their true form when killed.
Which open a sub-topic of this discussion, in fact: a dead character is no longer a creature but an inanimate object (a corpse). So, one has to wonder what happen to spells that where cast on it while living.
The way I understand it, being killed and resurrected doesn't wipe out permanent spells on the character. (Raise Dead even mention that magical diseases and curses aren't neutralized; it can easily be extrapolated to other magical effects...)
This can have some interesting consequences for those prestige classes that result in a change of creature type, though.