Can someone explain this to me?

[Kyle8589]

BREW POTION
You can create potions, which carry spells within themselves. See
the [I]Dungeon Master’s Guide for rules on potions.
Prerequisite: Caster level 3rd.
Benefit: You can create a potion of any 3rd-level or lower spell
that you know and that targets one or more creatures. Brewing a
potion takes one day. When you create a potion, you set the caster
level, which must be sufficient to cast the spell in question and no
higher than your own level. The base price of a potion is its spell
level × its caster level × 50 gp. To brew a potion, you must spend
1/25 of this base price in XP and use up raw materials costing one
half this base price.
When you create a potion, you make any choices that you would
normally make when casting the spell. Whoever drinks the potion is
the target of the spell.
Any potion that stores a spell with a costly material component or
an XP cost also carries a commensurate cost. In addition to the costs
derived from the base price, you must expend the material
component or pay the XP when creating the potion.



I'm a level 4 cleric, what should my caster level be?

[Firechanter]

You can set your CL anywhere from 1 to 4 for 1st-level spells, or 3-4 for 2nd-level spells. This will change the effect of the potion as well as the costs.

[SouthpawSoldier]

"Caster Level" denotes levels in a spellcasting class, as opposed to "Character level" for multiclass or non-casting characters.

4th level Cleric has a caster level of 4, with spell level & spells/day as per the table. A 4th level character (Cleric3/Fighter1) is a caster level 3rd. Combining caster levels is only doable in certain situations, like multiclass Wiz/Sorc levels for your familiar.

*Edit* Also, what Firechanter said.

[Kyle8589]

Oh, I understand now, thanks guys.

[Chronos]

In most cases, you'll want to use the minimum caster level (1 for 1st-level spells, 3 for 2nd, 5 for 3rd, etc.). Most spells do improve somewhat with caster level, but not as much as the cost increases. For instance, a CL 1 potion of Cure Light Wounds will cure 1d8+1 damage, for an average of 5.5 points. A CL 2 potion of CLW will cure 1d8+2, for an average of 6.5 ... but will cost twice as much. You'd be much better off just making two CL 1 ones.

[Firechanter]

You'd be much better off just making two CL 1 ones.

Or even better, scrap that potion junk, learn to Craft Wands, and make Wands of Lesser Vigor and suchlike. Especially for healing purposes that's much, much more efficient than Pots of CLW.

Math:
Brew Potion CLW CL1: 25GP for 1d8+1=5,5HP = 4,5GP/HP
Craft Wand LV CL1: 375GP for 50x11=550HP = 0,7GP/HP

[Jeraa]

Or even better, scrap that potion junk, learn to Craft Wands, and make Wands of Lesser Vigor and suchlike. Especially for healing purposes that's much, much more efficient than Pots of CLW.

Math:
Brew Potion CLW CL1: 25GP for 1d8+1=5,5HP = 4,5GP/HP
Craft Wand LV CL1: 375GP for 50x11=550HP = 0,7GP/HP

Yeah, but potions have the added benefit of being usable by everyone. A Wand of Lessor Vigor is useless if the only person in the party that can use it is unconscious.

[Flickerdart]

Yeah, but potions have the added benefit of being usable by everyone. A Wand of Lessor Vigor is useless if the only person in the party is unconscious.
That's why you have both - a stack of extremely cost-effective wands, and then a potion mini-bar for when the guy that uses them needs to be more awake than he is now.

[Fax Celestis]

The main advantage of potions is that their activation requires other people to use their actions instead of your own.

[ahenobarbi]

The main advantage of potions is that their activation requires other people to use their actions instead of your own.

Unfortunately a character has to be unconscious to have someone else give it a potion.

If only I knew an easy way to become unconscious (and then conscious again after drinking a potion)(going into negatives, willingly failing save and waking up after receiving a healing potion) the mechanic could be abused (become unconscious, have unseen servants buff you with arbitrary number of potions, wake up).

[Fax Celestis]

Unfortunately a character has to be unconscious to have someone else give it a potion.

If only I knew an easy way to become unconscious (and then conscious again after drinking a potion)(going into negatives, willingly failing save and waking up after receiving a healing potion) the mechanic could be abused (become unconscious, have unseen servants buff you with arbitrary number of potions, wake up).

Not what I meant. Potions allow you to pre-cast common buffs and panaceas (like animalistic power) so your buddy can use his action to buff himself instead of taking you out of the fight for a round to buff someone. Without a potion, caster spends first round casting a buff spell, fighter goes and smacks a dude. With potion, caster spend first round casting a debuff spell, fighter buffs himself. It's an effective doubling of both your actions in a round (effectively trading the fighter's first standard for one of yours), and of your effective spell capacity.

Potions are very underrated, but they do have their advantages: mainly, action economy (as potions are a sort of pre-cast), but also fluidity in activation (ie: not just the casters and UMD experts can use it), relative cheapness in cost, and global availability (in that while I've seen bone talismans and panic buttons banned, I've never seen potions banned, but also that potions tend to be very common loot).

Yes, wands are more cost-efficient, but they have the issue wherein you can't hand them to your typical fighter type and expect him to use it on himself. And potion crafting is available as early as 1st level, while wands come online at 5th at the earliest (technically 4th, but good luck getting the feat at 4th level).

Tl;dr: potions are for you to make and hand out to your party mates so they can use their actions to buff themselves instead of yours, and their relative usefulness is mainly at lower levels when your party mates can't be expected to really be able to activate wands reliably on their own.

[ahenobarbi]

Not what I meant. Potions allow you to pre-cast common buffs and panaceas (like animalistic power) so your buddy can use his action to buff himself instead of taking you out of the fight for a round to buff someone. Without a potion, caster spends first round casting a buff spell, fighter goes and smacks a dude. With potion, caster spend first round casting a debuff spell, fighter buffs himself. It's an effective doubling of both your actions in a round (effectively trading the fighter's first standard for one of yours), and of your effective spell capacity.

Potions are very underrated, but they do have their advantages: mainly, action economy (as potions are a sort of pre-cast), but also fluidity in activation (ie: not just the casters and UMD experts can use it), relative cheapness in cost, and global availability (in that while I've seen bone talismans and panic buttons banned, I've never seen potions banned, but also that potions tend to be very common loot).

Yes, wands are more cost-efficient, but they have the issue wherein you can't hand them to your typical fighter type and expect him to use it on himself. And potion crafting is available as early as 1st level, while wands come online at 5th at the earliest (technically 4th, but good luck getting the feat at 4th level).

Tl;dr: potions are for you to make and hand out to your party mates so they can use their actions to buff themselves instead of yours, and their relative usefulness is mainly at lower levels when your party mates can't be expected to really be able to activate wands reliably on their own.

I see your point though I think in most fights it's better to have a buffed fighter to go and smack enemy (and get hit in response; if the enemy survived) than to have debuffed enemy hit a buffed fighter (with no fighting back because fighter used standard action on drinking a potion). Obviously there are some situations where that's a very good option (for example you know enemies will arrive in 3 rounds because your anticipate teleportation caught them).

And I just remembered another use of potions: they enable characters to use personal-only spells not on their spell lists (if any). Once I made a bunch of Alter Self potions to turn whole party into Shadow Gnomes to give us some reasonable hide & move silently modifiers for a stealth mission. (well I used Quick potion spell rather than actual potions but it is a potion use case)

[Eldariel]

I'd rather just have my mundanes learn UMD or dip a casting class to be able to use the relevant spell completion items (and my casters to do castery things to enable them to do whatever) - Ranger, for instance, is a nice dip class that grants the ability to use Wand of Cure Light Wounds.

[Fax Celestis]

I'd rather just have my mundanes learn UMD or dip a casting class to be able to use the relevant spell completion items (and my casters to do castery things to enable them to do whatever) - Ranger, for instance, is a nice dip class that grants the ability to use Wand of Cure Light Wounds.

Sure, that's you. But you're not the only one at the table.

[ahenobarbi]

I'd rather just have my mundanes learn UMD or dip a casting class to be able to use the relevant spell completion items (and my casters to do castery things to enable them to do whatever) - Ranger, for instance, is a nice dip class that grants the ability to use Wand of Cure Light Wounds.

Potions are still useful for rarely-used spells (when using wands is more expensive (if DM doesn't let you buy partially charged wands)).

And sometimes you don't have room in a build for a dip(s) or skill points for reliable UMD.

I won't argue potions are very good items but they can be useful. Definitely if you can't have 1-digit charge wands. Also when your party-mates can't reliably UMD. Also if you create them with Quick potion spell.

[Eldariel]

Sure, that's you. But you're not the only one at the table.

That's a given, but whether there are people who don't share my opinion in the table is a different matter entirely. If there are, of course, more power to them. It is, after all, nobody's problem.


Potions are still useful for rarely-used spells (when using wands is more expensive (if DM doesn't let you buy partially charged wands)).

And sometimes you don't have room in a build for a dip(s) or skill points for reliable UMD.

I won't argue potions are very good items but they can be useful. Definitely if you can't have 1-digit charge wands. Also when your party-mates can't reliably UMD. Also if you create them with Quick potion spell.

Well, scrolls for the rarely used spells are still far superior to Potions (not level-capped, twice cheaper, etc.) but certainly, Potions have a niche where persistent magic items fail and UMD or casting aren't available. I'll say though, having the right Potions available at the right time is a non-trivial endeavor without being heavily forewarned about any more specialized needs you might encounter (though luckily things like "you might have to spend extended amounts of time under water" should be possible to figure out beforehand).