A bored 18th wizard beat monsters with club

[With a box]

A really bored wizard cast astral projection on himself(life is precious:smallsmile:)
1. buy some dirt cheap armor and weapon.
2. find some low level (4~6?) adventures in tavern.
3. beat thing hard in fight

any advise about this?

[Malroth]

with Heroics, Greater Mirror Image, Greater Invisibility, Heart of Earth/wind/water/fire, Acid Sheath, Alter Self, Greater magic weapon and Greater Mighty Wallop I don't really see how this is a problem at all, he could probably beat a LV 20 melee party at this point if they spent their WBL poorly or diddn't recieve it in the first place.

[Marlowe]

I'm confused. Is this actually a problem?

And did you mean a bored wizard? Because this guy doesn't sound that boring.

[eggynack]

And did you mean a bored wizard? Because this guy doesn't sound that boring.
Well, he might end up boring into some enemies with his club.

[Marlowe]

Well, he might end up boring into some enemies with his club.

Why not a dagger? Because the club will hurt more. KA-CHING!!!

No, seriously. A lot of my students in China and Korea would mix up "bored" and "boring" and I'm trying to figure out if it's that, and the Wizard is looking for some excitement, or if the OP really means that the wizard is a very dull person.

[With a box]

A lot of my students in China and Korea would mix up "bored" and "boring" and I'm trying to figure out if it's that, and the Wizard is looking for some excitement, or if the OP really means that the wizard is a very dull person.

EDIT I misuse some words because it uses in active form for person in these languages.

[Marlowe]

So what you are saying is that the Wizard did not, in fact, give dry lectures on proper use of transitive verbs or the social history of Ptolemaic Egypt while kicking an Orc Barbarian's teeth into the curb.

Pity.

So, is this actually a problem? If this is the worst your 18th level Wizard PC can think of to do, you're probably quite lucky.

[With a box]

So, is this actually a problem? If this is the worst your 18th level Wizard PC can think of to do, you're probably quite lucky.

I just wanted to ask how powerful the melee wizard are.
is that better then 4th fighter?

[Marlowe]

By sheer force of levels an 18th level Wizard is going to be better in melee (better HP, BAB) than a 4th level Fighter. Even without casting spells.

It's hardly a subject that comes up very often though, because high-level Wizards normally have better things to do than throw down with a pack of quest-fodder oiks in a tavern.

[Eldan]

I just wanted to ask how powerful the melee wizard are.
is that better then 4th fighter?

I'd say so. Without spells, they have a +10 base attack bonus. The fighter has +4. The wizard also has two attacks per round. The fighter has him beat on damage output, probably, since the fighter has strength and a larger weapon and probably power attack. Hit points... 4d10 vs. 20d4, the wizard has about double.

[inertia709]

I just wanted to ask how powerful the melee wizard are.
is that better then 4th fighter?

With the right spells, (s)he's probably better than a 20th level Fighter. Shapechange (choosing a form with high strength and a lot of natural attacks) plus Wraithstrike every round to help mitigate the poor BAB can lead to very high damage, and Greater Mirror Image, Contingency, etc. more than make up for the Wizard's poor HP.

Note that even without casting any spells, an 18th level Wizard will have higher BAB, more HP and potentially much higher strength (with the right magic items and ability score choices) than a 4th level Fighter. With spells chosen even vaguely properly for melee, the 4th level Fighter won't even get a turn.

[Eldariel]

If the Wizard uses spells, he can just turn into a Dragon/Purple Worm/whatever and eat the Fighter, or the whole party (Shapechange, should be up all day anyways). He's also unhittable and has forms that hit really hard. And of course, yeah, a level 20 Wizard has more HP and higher BAB than a level 4 Fighter without using spells (let alone Greater Mighty Wallop, False Life, Greater Mirror Image, Greater Blinking, Greater Magic Weapon, etc.

[With a box]

how well a wizard fight in melee if he throw his spellbook out of window?

[inertia709]

how well a wizard fight in melee if he throw his spellbook out of window?

Against a 4th level Fighter? See what I said above.

Against a Fighter of his/her level? Depends on whether or not (s)he has the Spell Mastery/Uncanny Forethought feats :smalltongue:. If not, then the Fighter will finally be able to slay a Wizard for the first time in about half a dozen levels. Remember, a straight class Wizard without spells is barely better than a Commoner.*

*(This is assuming that the Wizard doesn't have any permanencied spells, and that any contingencies or spells lasting multiple days have expired.)

[Eldariel]

how well a wizard fight in melee if he throw his spellbook out of window?

Does he have any permanent spell effects on him? E.g. Polymorph Any Object can get him a very reasonable melee form all day. What kind of point buy does he have? High Strength/Dex will obviously lead to a far better warrior Wizard than low. Does he have any relevant feats?

[molten_dragon]

how well a wizard fight in melee if he throw his spellbook out of window?

Well, an 18th level wizard has the same base attack bonus as a 9th level fighter.
And based off of straight hit die (ignoring CON mod) an 18th level wizard has about the same number of hit points as an 8th level fighter.

The fighter probably has better ability scores (STR, DEX, and maybe CON) though, which will allow him to keep up at a lower level. He also has better weapon and armor proficiencies, and his feats are likely much more useful for melee fighting.

The wizard though, has 12-15 times the wealth that the fighter does. Although it's unlikely he's spent much of it on armor and weapons. I suppose if he were really bored and wanted to play the game, he could sell all his gear and buy gear to be a decent fighter. If he did that I'd probably put him about the equivalent of a level 8 or 9 fighter. What he lacks in proficiencies, feats, and ability scores, he makes up for in WBL-mancy.

If he doesn't do that, and just adventures using whatever gear he has as a wizard, I'd say he might be on par with a level 5-7 fighter maybe?

[Marlowe]

The fighter probably has better ability scores (STR, DEX, and maybe CON)

The STR I will grant you of course; but why assume a Fighter will have better DEX and CON than a Wizard when those stats have exactly the same priority for both classes?:smallconfused:

Sorry, I keep seeing this assumption (that spellcasters don't care about secondary stats) come up these last few days. Especially about DEX. That's a stat spellcasters use a lot. Ray attacks, reflex saves, initiative, touch AC. Low-level crossbow plinking even. If anything a Wizard has more use for DEX than most Fighters do. Why are so many people convinced a Wizard's not going to want it?

[With a box]

When using a weapon with which you are not proficient, you take a -4 penalty on attack rolls.

it will make his Attack near +5?( and a -1 attack...)

[Marlowe]

Why would you use a weapon with which you're not proficient? Are we still talking clubs here? Wizards are proficient with those.

[With a box]

ha, I'll say this to my DM and ask if we can play this small low level adventure with me.
I think they will be cohorts of PCs

[jordan.k93]

I think people are missing the point here.

A wizard sat in his tower surrounded by his magical items, servants and minions running around doing everything on his whim, while he warps the laws of physics and plays with the very forces of creation... gets bored.

He gets bored with the ease and relaxation of it all, and as he stares out the window he sees a tavern, and he begins to reminisce about his earlier adventuring days where he and his friends were cleaving goblins and magic missiling ogres.

So he goes to join them after scrying the area with his crystal ball, leaving all the auto win gear at home, pops to the blacksmith to grab a mundane bow and sword (ELF OP) and maybe some light armour, and offers to come along.

Assuming elf, he'd be using Longbow/Longsword and lets say he grabs a Masterwork Chainshirt, giving only a -1 to attack rolls for non-proficiency. He'd be great at playing fighter.

...He'd probably cast contingency "Wish" or some way to get him out of the **** in the event of his death. If he wasn't a moron that is.

[Slipperychicken]

The wizard could instead use magic jar or something to possess a low-level Fighter. This gives him all the thrill of being a fighter, while his real body can remain safe and sound in the tower.

[Curmudgeon]

The wizard could instead use magic jar or something to possess a low-level Fighter. This gives him all the thrill of being a fighter, while his real body can remain safe and sound in the tower.
I don't think so. By level 20 the Wizard has been there, done that, and not even bothered to get the souvenir T-shirt. Actual risk of death isn't boring.

[With a box]

How he will react when his party wizard failed his spellcraft cheak and try to do something stupid?
(Assume he is good, because netural or evil looks to obvious to me)

[sleepyphoenixx]

The wizard could instead use magic jar or something to possess a low-level Fighter. This gives him all the thrill of being a fighter, while his real body can remain safe and sound in the tower.

There is nothing thrilling about being a meatheaded swordswinger. It is an inferior profession for those lesser minds who lack the capacity to understand the arcane arts.

[Slipperychicken]

I don't think so. By level 20 the Wizard has been there, done that, and not even bothered to get the souvenir T-shirt. Actual risk of death isn't boring.

The OP had our wizard casting Astral Projection to keep his life safe, so I think it's reasonable to assume he's willing to make that sacrifice.


Also, having fought my share of sparring and wrestling matches, I feel that I speak from experience when I say that one's life need not be threatened to gain thrills from violence. The sweat, pain, and adrenaline are still real. Even if you know in some vague academic sense that you're not likely to die in that fight, the old instincts and chemicals are not so receptive to reason.

[Curmudgeon]

Also, having fought my share of sparring and wrestling matches, I feel that I speak from experience when I say that one's life need not be threatened to gain thrills from violence.
There are nonviolent ways to gain thrills, though. I don't think I've ever had more adrenaline pumping in my system than the first time I willed myself to jump out of a perfectly good airplane. Knowing that the parachute was very likely to work correctly didn't diminish that in the slightest.

Also the OP didn't say anything about checking for Githyanki Silver Swords before taking on this Fighter, so life isn't apparently all that precious. :smallwink: