What are the best feats to give a 3.5 Psicrystal?

[aleucard]

My DM is allowing me to add Feats, Ability Score increases, and other things that improve with HD (excepting the things explicitly called out as otherwise, like Skills) to my Psicrystal. I'm at the moment trying to find the best feats possible for this. My Psicrystal's HD is 3, so that works out to 2 feats. Right now, the best ideas I got are Darkstalker, Mindsight at level 6 (because getting it earlier may not work, and would only let it detect my position until it gets Telepathic Speech anyway), and Lifesense at level 12 (3 points to Cha means it can qualify then). That leaves a LOT of wiggle room. All official 3.5 material excepting Tome of Battle but including Dragon Magazine is allowed (though regional feats aren't, since those feats are balanced by needing to be from a location that isn't in the campaign setting). If my build matters, I'm going to be a Factotum 1/StP Erudite 3/Tashalatora Monk 2/Erudite 2/Crystal Master 10/Psychic Weapon Master 2 (fitting those 2 levels at the first opportunity I get to have them; yeah I'm a gish, a somewhat sneaky one at that). If you got any ideas to make my personal build better (PWM was just the best idea I could find, I technically don't need those last 2 Erudite levels if I take Practiced Manifester, etc.), I'm all ears, but this topic is mainly for figuring out what the best thing to do for the Psicrystal is.

[Chronos]

Draconic Aura is a strong choice. Vigor is the most popular, but Senses could also be useful.

Ordinarily I'd suggest Martial Study: White Raven Tactics, but if ToB is off the table for some reason...

I suppose it could take the Bind Vestige line, though I'm not sure specifically what that would give that would be worthwhile. If nothing else, it'd be funny to see a pet rock spontaneously cover itself in full plate.

And not a feat, but if it's getting Mindsight and Lifesense anyway, it's a really good idea to get ahold of a lawful scroll of Planar Familiar to give it the Axiomatic template. That way, whenever it's not surprised (and it darned well won't be), you're not surprised, either.

Also, I personally would never take just one level of factotum, when 3 is right around the corner, but I guess that takes away some manifester levels from you.

[aleucard]

Draconic Aura is a strong choice. Vigor is the most popular, but Senses could also be useful.

Ordinarily I'd suggest Martial Study: White Raven Tactics, but if ToB is off the table for some reason...

I suppose it could take the Bind Vestige line, though I'm not sure specifically what that would give that would be worthwhile. If nothing else, it'd be funny to see a pet rock spontaneously cover itself in full plate.

And not a feat, but if it's getting Mindsight and Lifesense anyway, it's a really good idea to get ahold of a lawful scroll of Planar Familiar to give it the Axiomatic template. That way, whenever it's not surprised (and it darned well won't be), you're not surprised, either.

Also, I personally would never take just one level of factotum, when 3 is right around the corner, but I guess that takes away some manifester levels from you.

Yeah, Senses IS nice. Vigor isn't in the list in Dragon Magic, though. Where is that one, exactly? A copy-paste of what it does as well as a source would work, too. To be honest, though, this doesn't seem all that fitting for my character (should've posted this stuff, but forgot). Changeling with heavy connections to Celestial Fey (made doubly amusing by him being LG working for CG; short version, he got burnt badly by the Pact Primeval and wants to see that thing either rewritten or made redundant thanks to the extermination of Devil-kind). I'll probably be getting a Draconic Graft or two, so it's far from the most out-of-character thing I can find, but still.

ToB was taken off the table because, in the realm of martial classes, that single book curbstomps basically if not literally every other pure-mundane class in the entire history of 3.5, whether individually or in concert. Well, that and cherry-picking the few things in there that does NOT channel the nuttiness that is Maneuvers could easily become a legalese nightmare (I'm far from the only player), the DM just said screw this and kicked out the entire thing. It's nowhere near as bad as it looks, we've got access to bloody Dragon Magazine of all things if we can source our material, but yeah.

Bind Vestige... Uh, yeah, that's a bit too much there. As completely @#$^ing absurd the thought of a tiny-ass pet rock scratching a ritual circle out to call forth Eldritch Abominations is (and thus, completely hilarious), there is no other way to call that than over the top. Maybe for a different character...

I was mainly taking Factotum to up my stealth and skillmonkey chops (as well as get Autohypnosis to take Tashalatora when it becomes relevant). The little things it can do are nice, but not enough for me to put 2 ML on the altar. Not even Brains over Braun or that wildcard Lv. 1 spell is enough.

EDIT: Found The Vigor Draconic Aura after googling it (though if you're going to mention something that isn't in the same place as other things you mention like they are, say so). Since Vigor is on a specific class list and not the general one, though, that kinda implies that Vigor is Dragon Shaman exclusive. Am I wrong?

[sleepyphoenixx]

Any metapsionic feat as long as you take Feat Leech as a second level power. Psionic feats work too but most of them have requirements your psicrystal can't meet - metapsionic feats don't.

[Chronos]

The Draconic Aura feat says that you can take a draconic aura, and makes clear that these are the same sort of auras the Dragon Shaman gets. It doesn't say that it can only give you the auras from that book.

[Vhaidara]

ToB was taken off the table because, in the realm of martial classes, that single book curbstomps basically if not literally every other pure-mundane class in the entire history of 3.5, whether individually or in concert. Well, that and cherry-picking the few things in there that does NOT channel the nuttiness that is Maneuvers could easily become a legalese nightmare (I'm far from the only player), the DM just said screw this and kicked out the entire thing. It's nowhere near as bad as it looks, we've got access to bloody Dragon Magazine of all things if we can source our material, but yeah.

Quick note: That was the point of ToB. It was meant to replace prior mundanes with more competitive classes.

[Chronos]

And for that matter, the Players' Handbook also curbstomps all melee characters, too, but that one isn't often banned.

[aleucard]

Any metapsionic feat as long as you take Feat Leech as a second level power. Psionic feats work too but most of them have requirements your psicrystal can't meet - metapsionic feats don't.

Feat Leech is kinda cheesy for this early stage in the game. I'm an Erudite, if it becomes necessary I can learn it easily at a later date, but for now I'd like things that are good enough when the only thing that can take advantage is the crystal.

Chronos; I wasn't aware of that. Still, the feat's a bit odd for a Psicrystal, especially one that's owned by someone who doesn't even have anything Dragon-flavored yet.

And yes, I AM aware that not only was 'updating' mundane combat the point of ToB but that there's several Primary Casters that can make it equally pointless as a PC Class even in the PHB. For the first, the DM isn't wanting to make entire segments of the 3.5 library obsolete (and you gotta admit, ToB has a distinctly separate flavor from standard mundane), so banning the one book that does that is just good housekeeping. For the second, I get the impression that for the most part, Primary Caster classes are expected to focus on that particular schtick. Sure, that doesn't really change the issue, but it does make it a lot less blatant. I also get the impression that the power level of encounters is adjusted for the players in question, so playing CoDzilla in a party with a Ranger, Rogue, and Fighter isn't going to be nearly as helpful as it would be otherwise. There's also the obvious issue of that party being completely lopsided, but the campaign setup itself should help with that.

EDIT: I found one possibility; Quick Reconnoiter. (http://dndtools.eu/feats/complete-adventurer--54/quick-reconnoiter--2318/) I'm going to be maxing those skills for me anyway, which means I get near-max use of those, but I'm not 100% on how the Initiative bonus would interact with being for what amounts to a Familiar (basically guaranteed if it's on its own and thus works without the normal 'move on my turn' thing, but otherwise?). Still, could be easily worth it even without the bonus. You guys got anything better for my first 2 Psicrystal feats than Darkstalker and this?

[Vortenger]

Shape Soulmeld. So good as a feat it has its own handbook (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?321557-The-World-in-One-Feat-A-Shape-Soulmeld-Handbook).

Seconding Bind Vestige for other awesome paranormal powers arising unexpectedly from a rock.

Hidden Talent from the XPH gives the crystal a 1st level power (I like Minor Creation, myself), as well as 2pp and a ML of 1 to power it. This grants the psionic subtype for other psi-feats as well. (which a psicrystal conspicuously lacks...)

There's a psionic trick involving psicrystals that get psicrystals that get psicrystals at ever expanding level ranges... but that's more than most games allow.

edit: What chakras could a 100gp hunk of quartz actually have...? (metagame supposition)

[Flickerdart]

ToB was taken off the table because, in the realm of martial classes, that single book curbstomps basically if not literally every other pure-mundane class in the entire history of 3.5, whether individually or in concert.
Show me a martial adept and I'll show you a stain on the wall once Mr. Ubercharge and Ms. Trip are done with him. ToB characters are good at versatility and things beyond "full attack", but they can't hold a candle to a good old fashioned laser-focus melee build when it comes to doing what that build does best - the beating-in of faces. Of course, mundanes and ToB characters multiclass very gracefully with one another.

The funny thing is that ToB actually mostly replaces "magic" melees anyway. Swordsages are an obvious parallel to monks, and crusaders are updated paladins. Warblades are meant to update the fighter, so you get one out of three, but fighter dips for feats upon feats are by no means obsolete. In fact, the fighter is the least affected of the three - it's still a reasonable 6-level class, whereas nobody in their right mind* would take more than 2 levels of monk or paladin with or without ToB.

*I've done both of these things, because I'm definitely crazy.

[Psyren]

edit: What chakras could a 100gp hunk of quartz actually have...? (metagame supposition)

Not many. MoI 169, "Body Shape and Chakras":


Amorphous Body: A creature with no limbs, head, or discernable anatomical structure (such as a mimic), has access to only two chakras-namely, the heart and soul.

No Constitution Score: A creature without a Constitution score, such as a construct or an undead creature, has no soul chakra.

You could make an argument for the Feet chakra since it can grow legs, but beyond that, you're probably stuck with just Heart unless you metamorph it.

[Ellowryn]

But the Shape Soulmeld feat requires a con of 13, how can it take the feat if it doesn't have a con score?

[Divide by Zero]

Whenever I see someone banning ToB, I think of a quote I heard once. "The problem is that the 3.5 fighter is poorly designed. The solution is not to ban everything that isn't."

[Rubik]

Mounted Combat is pretty nice, if your Ride skill is high and you invest in a hat-saddle for the psicrystal to ride on.

[Kazyan]

If you want build advice and will not be using ToB for whatever reason, do not mention it. Otherwise you have to answer the inevitable arguments for using the book, which is more effort than just ignoring ToB builds.

[aleucard]

Shape Soulmeld. So good as a feat it has its own handbook (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?321557-The-World-in-One-Feat-A-Shape-Soulmeld-Handbook).

Seconding Bind Vestige for other awesome paranormal powers arising unexpectedly from a rock.

Hidden Talent from the XPH gives the crystal a 1st level power (I like Minor Creation, myself), as well as 2pp and a ML of 1 to power it. This grants the psionic subtype for other psi-feats as well. (which a psicrystal conspicuously lacks...)

There's a psionic trick involving psicrystals that get psicrystals that get psicrystals at ever expanding level ranges... but that's more than most games allow.

edit: What chakras could a 100gp hunk of quartz actually have...? (metagame supposition)

I don't have the Incarnum book, so I don't feel comfortable using things from it. I could possibly try finding it online, but that has its own issues.

Hidden Talent is nice,but since I'm going to be an Erudite anyway, I'll want to pick a power that I can't get access to normally. What good valid powers are there that don't show up on the Psion list?

Nested Psicrystals is in the same boat as Binding as being equally absurd (and thus amusing to contemplate) as it is overboard for this campaign.

Flickerdart; The biggest part of the problem (as far as my DMs are concerned, near as I can tell) is that basically anything a Non-ToB martial can do, a ToB one can do better. Crusaders make for absurdly effective Lockdown specialists even when barely a nod is given to the concept in char-gen, and an Ubercharger is not only made even better by ToB but is very easy to shut down by anyone who puts some thought into it. The fact that those are high-op character designs (made mainly to make such classes NOT entirely redundant in a comparably-optimized party with Summon Monster access) when I'm not entirely aware of what level of optimization this campaign's running on is just icing.

In any case, I'm not the DM, I don't have the right to force my character to have ToB access. Let's stow that part of the discussion for another thread, mkay?

EDIT: I found a copy of Incarnum. What exactly would a Psicrystal do with it that would be worth a slot? Remember, thus far it's competing with Darkstalker, Qick Reconnoiter, and Hidden Talent for levels 1-3, and Mindsight at level 6.

[AvatarVecna]

I don't know about anything reasonable or useful, but I found a TO feat for you: Leadership. The trick here is to combine the feats Leadership, Psicrystal Affinity, and Improved Psicrystal.

A character can have a cohort of their (character level)-2 under most circumstances. A main character can take Psicrystal Affinity at 1st, Leadership at 6th, and Improved Psicrystal for every other feat. A cohort can take Psicrystal Affinity at 1st level and Improved Psicrystal for every other feat. A Psicrystal just takes Leadership at its 6th HD.

An 8th level main character built in that way has a 10 HD Psicrystal; that Psicrystal has an 8th level cohort, who has an 11th level Psicrystal, who has a 9th level cohort, who has a 12th level Psicrystal, who has...going on to infinite.

Of course, as with anything discussing achievable infinites, this is purely theoretical character optimization, and should never be used in a real game for fear of table flipping, book chucking, and name calling...assuming your fellow players do not possess a saint's patience and oaths against violence.

[sleepyphoenixx]

A psicrystal doesn't do anything with incarnum since it doesn't have a Con score.

A host feat (CPsi) gives you a PLA and a manifester level of 1/2 your HD. That enables the psicrystal to take Metamorphic Transfer at level 12 (if you invest ability boosts into Wis). Useful if you have Metamorphosis.
It also qualifies for Psymbiot and Gestalt Anchor (CPsi).

[Vortenger]

A psicrystal doesn't do anything with incarnum since it doesn't have a Con score.


I had forgotten this when I posted. It's just sort of a go-to feat recommendation for me these days.

[Rubik]

I don't know about anything reasonable or useful, but I found a TO feat for you: Leadership. The trick here is to combine the feats Leadership, Psicrystal Affinity, and Improved Psicrystal.

A character can have a cohort of their (character level)-2 under most circumstances. A main character can take Psicrystal Affinity at 1st, Leadership at 6th, and Improved Psicrystal for every other feat. A cohort can take Psicrystal Affinity at 1st level and Improved Psicrystal for every other feat. A Psicrystal just takes Leadership at its 6th HD.

An 8th level main character built in that way has a 10 HD Psicrystal; that Psicrystal has an 8th level cohort, who has an 11th level Psicrystal, who has a 9th level cohort, who has a 12th level Psicrystal, who has...going on to infinite.

Of course, as with anything discussing achievable infinites, this is purely theoretical character optimization, and should never be used in a real game for fear of table flipping, book chucking, and name calling...assuming your fellow players do not possess a saint's patience and oaths against violence.I don't think this actually works. The psicrystal's HD are based on its master's HD. Improved Psicrystal says nothing about HD, but that, "when determining the abilities of your psicrystal, treat your manifester level as one higher than your normal manifester level."

Leadership is based on Hit Dice (ie, actual level), not effective level for special abilities.

For that matter, I don't think Improved Psicrystal actually works as intended, since the psicrystal's abilities are based off of its master's psion and/or wilder levels (or possibly levels in general psionic classes), but Improved Psicrystal boosts the master's effective manifester level in regards to the psicrystal, which does nothing to actually improve it.

[aleucard]

I don't know about anything reasonable or useful, but I found a TO feat for you: Leadership. The trick here is to combine the feats Leadership, Psicrystal Affinity, and Improved Psicrystal.

A character can have a cohort of their (character level)-2 under most circumstances. A main character can take Psicrystal Affinity at 1st, Leadership at 6th, and Improved Psicrystal for every other feat. A cohort can take Psicrystal Affinity at 1st level and Improved Psicrystal for every other feat. A Psicrystal just takes Leadership at its 6th HD.

An 8th level main character built in that way has a 10 HD Psicrystal; that Psicrystal has an 8th level cohort, who has an 11th level Psicrystal, who has a 9th level cohort, who has a 12th level Psicrystal, who has...going on to infinite.

Of course, as with anything discussing achievable infinites, this is purely theoretical character optimization, and should never be used in a real game for fear of table flipping, book chucking, and name calling...assuming your fellow players do not possess a saint's patience and oaths against violence.

..... Yeah. The only situation I would ever so much as touch the Leadership feat and its relatives is if I somehow swing a spot for a Tippy game. Putting it on a bloody Psicrystal of all things is even worse than Binding, and that's without your little infinite loop.

Gestalt Anchor and Psymbiot sound like interesting little quirks, but I'm not entirely sure if I'll have enough feat slots myself to take advantage. Can you suggest ideas that would work even if the Psicrystal was on its lonesome, or at least don't need additional investing of char-gen resources from me aside from the Psicrystal itself and maybe some GP? Ideas for what power to take with Hidden Talent for instance. Remember, everything non-ToB is on the table.

EDIT: I'm trying to find an interesting power for Hidden Talent. At the moment, the best options I can find are Chameleon for the rare occasions when it will be sneaking on its lonesome, and Psionic Grease for general utility/debuff (even though I have this one myself; one of the few things worth having multiple casts of like this).. Anything better?

[Coidzor]

For that matter, I don't think Improved Psicrystal actually works as intended, since the psicrystal's abilities are based off of its master's psion and/or wilder levels (or possibly levels in general psionic classes), but Improved Psicrystal boosts the master's effective manifester level in regards to the psicrystal, which does nothing to actually improve it.

...What is it even intended to do there? :smallconfused: I can't quite tell myself.

Is it just supposed to increase the Psicrystal's HD by one? Increase Psicrystal HD by one and master's effective level for psicrystal abilities from the psicrystal special abilities table? Just the increased effective level for the psicrystal special abilities table (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/classes/psion.htm#psicrystals)?

[Rubik]

...What is it even intended to do there? :smallconfused: I can't quite tell myself.

Is it just supposed to increase the Psicrystal's HD by one? Increase Psicrystal HD by one and master's effective level for psicrystal abilities from the psicrystal special abilities table? Just the increased effective level for the psicrystal special abilities table (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/classes/psion.htm#psicrystals)?The last one, I think, but it's worded in such a way that it does nothing aside from granting a new personality type.

[AvatarVecna]

The idea behind the trick is partially based on the psicrystal monster entry. Every monster entry has a section for HP/HD, and a psicrystal's HP is half its masters...but its HD is equal to its masters manifestor level. Because the psicrystal has HD, it advances in level just as anything else with HD does. By following this line of reasoning, we arrive at "psicrystals can take feats based on their level", a common interpretation of the psicrystal rules; as this reasoning is the basis of this particular thread (see: thread title), we can assume this particular RAI is acceptable.

The RAW of "Improved Psicrystal" doesn't really increase the master's HD or their manifestor level directly, but only in regards to the psicrystal's abilities. That said, the base rules behind determining your psicrystals HD are "the masters levels, unless they're not psionic classes/PrCs". As this is rather overly complicated, many people act as if the intended (and correct) meaning of these rules is that your psicrystals HD are equal to the masters manifestor level. While not technically RAW, it's not all that broken for a rules interpretation...with a few exceptions.

Leadership can be taken by anything with 6 HD; the only exception is cohorts gained Leadership. Wizard familiars, which are very similar to psicrystals, have no stat block, can't take feats, and therefore can't take Leadership. As psicrystals aren't forbidden from taking Leadership, and cohort's aren't forbidden from taking Psicrystal Affinity/Improved Psicrystal, this trick is legal if the two above are allowed.

To be clear, the broken cheese here isn't psicrystals being allowed feats, nor Improved Psicrystal increasing your psicrystals HD; it's that Leadership is a feat available to psicrystals, and psicrystals can be taken by cohorts, forming an infinite pool of crystal addicts. Actually, the phrase "The Crystal Cult" perfectly describes what this would be like. That said, neither of the first two tricks are particularly game-breaking without Leadership, hence the OP putting out requests for the "best feat": it isn't obvious or often discussed because it's not really all that overpowered. But throw Leadership into the mix, and suddenly you have an infinite loop. And let's face it, if you haven't banned Leadership in a game where both of the first two options have been discussed and allowed, I'd almost say you deserve any Leadership shenanigans your players send your way.

But actually saying and believing that, of course, would make me a CHEATING OPTIMIZER.

[Rubik]

The idea behind the trick is partially based on the psicrystal monster entry. Every monster entry has a section for HP/HD, and a psicrystal's HP is half its masters...but its HD is equal to its masters manifestor level hit dice.Fixed that for you.

And that's why the trick doesn't work.


A psicrystal’s characteristics depend on its master. Its Hit Dice are equal to its master’s Hit Dice (counting only levels in psion or wilder), its hit points are equal to half its master’s, and its saving throw bonuses are the same as its master’s.

[AvatarVecna]

Fixed that for you.

And that's why the trick doesn't work.

As mentioned elsewhere in the post you obviously didn't bother reading the whole way through, and as is obvious in the excerpt from the SRD you posted, that part of the trick isn't Rules as Written, but Rules as Intended/Interpreted. If it was only "masters HD", then that would be the end of it. As it is, its only your full manifesting classes that count; it's arguable, and not too overpowered, that one could allow a player to base their psicrystal's level on their manifestor level. If this was the case (the DM allows this interpretation on the grounds of not being OP), then Improved Psicrystal advances Psicrystal HD. Again, this isn't OP, since you'd have to spend all of your feats to gain significant benefit. If I had a player who insisted on spending their own feats on improving their Psicrystal in this manner, I wouldn't care too much, because it isn't game-breaking anymore than a psion/wilder who doesn't waste all their feats.

The broken thing in this idea is Leadership; the other two elements are fairly balanced RAI. As is always the case with the Leadership feat, throwing it in has great potential to completely upset any semblance of game-balance.

You're right, it's not RAW. It's just reasonable RAI, which is more than a number of people on this site need to go forward with a potentially game-breaking build idea. The solution to this "problem interpretation" is to ban Leadership, which likely has already happened if the players are interpreting the rules to this degree.

[Crake]

An interesting choice, if your DM allows it, is Hidden Talent, to get 2 power points and a ML of 1, practised manifester, to get a ML of up to 5, and then after that you can pick up psionic crafting feats, letting you and your psicrystal work together to craft items. Also, if you make the power it gets with hidden talent something utility, or long lasting, you can access it's mind and manifest the power yourself without any worry.

[Rubik]

As mentioned elsewhere in the post you obviously didn't bother reading the whole way through, and as is obvious in the excerpt from the SRD you posted, that part of the trick isn't Rules as Written, but Rules as Intended/Interpreted.Except what you stated was flat-out wrong. Even the RAI isn't based on manifester level. It's based on your level in psionic classes (or psion/wilder only, depending on what you read and where). Never is it manifester level, except in the feat, which doesn't work because of that fact.


An interesting choice, if your DM allows it, is Hidden Talent, to get 2 power points and a ML of 1, practised manifester, to get a ML of up to 5, and then after that you can pick up psionic crafting feats, letting you and your psicrystal work together to craft items. Also, if you make the power it gets with hidden talent something utility, or long lasting, you can access it's mind and manifest the power yourself without any worry.Hidden Talent isn't an actual manifester level, nor is it a class, so Practiced Manifester won't work.

[aleucard]

An interesting choice, if your DM allows it, is Hidden Talent, to get 2 power points and a ML of 1, practised manifester, to get a ML of up to 5, and then after that you can pick up psionic crafting feats, letting you and your psicrystal work together to craft items. Also, if you make the power it gets with hidden talent something utility, or long lasting, you can access it's mind and manifest the power yourself without any worry.

Yeah, Hidden Talent's already been mentioned. Psionic Crafting feats haven't, but that feels kinda cheesy for my tastes.

Perhaps you can make a couple suggestions for a Hidden Talent power? Preferably something not on the Psion list since I'm an Erudite, but if it's the sort of thing that either having access when it's on its lonesome is helpful (like, say, Chameleon) or is useful even when cast by 2 separate manifesters with 2 separate power levels (like, say, Grease) then I can hang. Things I wouldn't have access to normally take priority, obviously.

[AvatarVecna]

Except what you stated was flat-out wrong. Even the RAI isn't based on manifester level. It's based on your level in psionic classes (or psion/wilder only, depending on what you read and where). Never is it manifester level, except in the feat, which doesn't work because of that fact.

Do you not understand what the words "intended" means? You're still using RAW. RAW says only psion and wilder levels count as HD for determining psicrystal level. Someone only going by the rules as written (the RAW) would say that you can't assume anything about that rule in any way and can only use the rules as expressly written. However, by using your own brain to interpret the rules, and understand some of the intent behind them, you could make the argument that it was intended to be based on manifestor level, and it was just written weird; this isn't a particularly broken interpretation of the rules. I've had multiple DMs give this interpretation the thumbs up, and I've seen it discussed seriously elsewhere on these forums. It's not a bad interpretation unless you're a mindless slave to the RAW, like you appear to be.

But okay, let's follow your interpretation for just a second, to see if it becomes less broken using Leadership and Improved Cohort instead.

Psion 20 takes Leadership, Improved Cohort, and Psicrystal Affinity. He gains a Psion 19 cohort and a 20 HD psicrystal. All cohorts in the organization take Psicrystal Affinity, and all the Psicrystals take Leadership, if possible.

Total organization from one character, with the most investment being 3 feats by the main character (all psicrystals retrain the lvl 3 feat into Improved Cohort at lvl 6):

Psion 20, Psicrystal 20
(2) Psion 19, (2) Psicrystal 19
(2) Psion 18, (2) Psicrystal 18
(2) Psion 17, (2) Psicrystal 17
(2) Psion 16, (2) Psicrystal 16
(2) Psion 15, (2) Psicrystal 15
(2) Psion 14, (2) Psicrystal 14
(2) Psion 13, (2) Psicrystal 13
(2) Psion 12, (2) Psicrystal 12
(2) Psion 11, (2) Psicrystal 11
(2) Psion 10, (2) Psicrystal 10
(2) Psion 9, (2) Psicrystal 9
(2) Psion 8, (2) Psicrystal 8
(2) Psion 7, (2) Psicrystal 7
(2) Psion 6, (2) Psicrystal 6
(2) Psion 5, (2) Psicrystal 5

So, even without the interpretation you say is completely illegal by RAW (I agree with that, but one not over-powered interpretation makes it a valid rule), I can take Leadership and have an organization of 31 Psions with 31 Psicrystals. The only rules interpretation this uses is the one assumed by the original poster (psicrystals can take feats). Let's set up a metaconcert and dominate the world! THE CRYSTAL CULT SHALL RULE ALL!

[Coidzor]

I suppose if your psicrystal takes the feat that allows it to regain psionic focus more quickly and you have the feat that allows you to spend your psicrystal's psionic focus, that could give you some additional benefit?


Yeah, Hidden Talent's already been mentioned. Psionic Crafting feats haven't, but that feels kinda cheesy for my tastes.

Just think of it as being less cheesy than using your Psicrystal as a Dedicated Wright.

[aleucard]

I suppose if your psicrystal takes the feat that allows it to regain psionic focus more quickly and you have the feat that allows you to spend your psicrystal's psionic focus, that could give you some additional benefit?



Just think of it as being less cheesy than using your Psicrystal as a Dedicated Wright.

From what I remember of the rules, Psicrystals can't gain Focus on their own under any circumstances, so IT taking a feat for doing so is kind of a waste. I may do so myself if I find a useful way to spend it, though.

I'm not really wanting this character to be that kind of crafter. More mundane options, especially stuff that can be obtained by way of Minor/Major Creation, yeah, but not so much the Psionic Items. I'd like to focus on being a sneaky gish.

[Rubik]

From what I remember of the rules, Psicrystals can't gain Focus on their own under any circumstances, so IT taking a feat for doing so is kind of a waste. I may do so myself if I find a useful way to spend it, though.

I'm not really wanting this character to be that kind of crafter. More mundane options, especially stuff that can be obtained by way of Minor/Major Creation, yeah, but not so much the Psionic Items. I'd like to focus on being a sneaky gish.A psicrystal can gain its own focus if you turn it into a psionic creature (ie, give it power points). It's not the master's focus, however, and so I don't know how the master can access it like Coidzor says.

[Coidzor]

A psicrystal can gain its own focus if you turn it into a psionic creature (ie, give it power points). It's not the master's focus, however, and so I don't know how the master can access it like Coidzor says.

It's probably worded so that it's just gaining Focus for one's self and storing it in one's Psicrystal, come to think of it. I know I've run into some feat along similar lines though, but the wording probably puts the kibosh on the idea anyway. *goes to doublecheck*

Psicrystal Containment, (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/psionicFeats.htm#psicrystalContainment) though it does say it's the Psicrystal's Psionic Focus that the PC can spend... Depends on whether you read the bit about psicrystals being unable to psionically focus themselves as either clarification that they're not normally able to do so or that they're never able to do so even if one finds a way to let them gain psionic focus.

It's sketchier, but it's not entirely clear whether the feat is the source of the ability to spend one's psicrystal's psionic focus or if it's just the source of the ability to psionically focus one's psicrystal, but I wouldn't really try to pass the more permissive interpretation by the DM to get out of taking the feat if my psicrystal already had a way to psionically focus itself...

[aleucard]

It's probably worded so that it's just gaining Focus for one's self and storing it in one's Psicrystal, come to think of it. I know I've run into some feat along similar lines though, but the wording probably puts the kibosh on the idea anyway. *goes to doublecheck*

Psicrystal Containment, (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/psionicFeats.htm#psicrystalContainment) though it does say it's the Psicrystal's Psionic Focus that the PC can spend... Depends on whether you read the bit about psicrystals being unable to psionically focus themselves as either clarification that they're not normally able to do so or that they're never able to do so even if one finds a way to let them gain psionic focus.

It's sketchier, but it's not entirely clear whether the feat is the source of the ability to spend one's psicrystal's psionic focus or if it's just the source of the ability to psionically focus one's psicrystal, but I wouldn't really try to pass the more permissive interpretation by the DM to get out of taking the feat if my psicrystal already had a way to psionically focus itself...

If I were the DM, I'd rule that even if a Psicrystal with PP can get Focus, you'd need Containment in order to be able to use it for yourself. Another psionic character can't donate their own Focus for another's use, after all, and since I'm going to be taking Crystal Master regardless (Telepathy first, Touchsight second, for obvious reasons, but not much but the Saves/AC booster, the DR/- granter, and the physical stat boosts appeal to be honest (the mental ones are only good for skills, a lesser Will boost in Wis, and greater resistance to ability damage; I'm pretty sure how they work prevents more than maybe boosting Power DC's aside from that)), I'd like that feat to actually have some use as more than a tax.

Anyway, if I DO get my Psicrystal something to give it the ability to make its own focus, I'd need something for it to actually DO with it that would be worth a feat slot for that to be worth paying attention to. The thing being able to do its own Focusing doesn't really do anything to the Action Economy unless if I focus on it enough to do it mid-fight, and I got more interesting crap to do with my build resources.

[Coidzor]

If I were the DM, I'd rule that even if a Psicrystal with PP can get Focus, you'd need Containment in order to be able to use it for yourself. Another psionic character can't donate their own Focus for another's use, after all, and since I'm going to be taking Crystal Master regardless (Telepathy first, Touchsight second, for obvious reasons, but not much but the Saves/AC booster, the DR/- granter, and the physical stat boosts appeal to be honest (the mental ones are only good for skills, a lesser Will boost in Wis, and greater resistance to ability damage; I'm pretty sure how they work prevents more than maybe boosting Power DC's aside from that)), I'd like that feat to actually have some use as more than a tax.

Fair enough. That's how I'd do it myself. Though I'd want the psicrystal to be able to regain its focus using its own actions in order for me to spend its psionic focus as if it were mine later, provided I gave it a way to attain psionic focus on its own.


Anyway, if I DO get my Psicrystal something to give it the ability to make its own focus, I'd need something for it to actually DO with it that would be worth a feat slot for that to be worth paying attention to. The thing being able to do its own Focusing doesn't really do anything to the Action Economy unless if I focus on it enough to do it mid-fight, and I got more interesting crap to do with my build resources.

Well, yeah, you gotta have something to spend psionic focuses on, especially regularly at the once per round or even twice per round rate. If you do, though, being able to have your psicrystal spend *its* actions on regaining psionic focus so you can spend its psionic focus on your next turn can be advantageous.

Unfortunately I don't really have much there to go on other than metapsionics of some sort, which would be yet another feat.

[aleucard]

Fair enough. That's how I'd do it myself. Though I'd want the psicrystal to be able to regain its focus using its own actions in order for me to spend its psionic focus as if it were mine later, provided I gave it a way to attain psionic focus on its own.



Well, yeah, you gotta have something to spend psionic focuses on, especially regularly at the once per round or even twice per round rate. If you do, though, being able to have your psicrystal spend *its* actions on regaining psionic focus so you can spend its psionic focus on your next turn can be advantageous.

Unfortunately I don't really have much there to go on other than metapsionics of some sort, which would be yet another feat.

I was more thinking of things that the Psicrystal could do with or without my attendance (though things that are synergistic with it are nice). Isn't there several feats that provide bonuses for maintaining Focus? I'm wondering if any of those would be worth a slot; maybe the one that boosts land speed if I end up either using it as a toucher or have it scout an inordinate amount of times?

Really, though, I'd like to hear some thoughts about what Power would fit into the Hidden Talent slot. If I do go that route (and this needs to be decided fairly soon, since the feat's Lv. 1 only), to reiterate my qualifiers, I'd prefer something I don't normally have access to as a StP Erudite, but what I NEED is something that 1) is useful even with ML1, 2), is useful even after low levels, and 3) is useful at least when either I'm present, when I'm not, or preferably both. For obvious reasons, things that work off of Attack Rolls like Entangling Ectoplasm are valid, as are things that can easily be useful even when multiple copies are dropped like Psionic Grease, but direct-damage at this level swiftly becomes only good for brute-force lockpicking, and my pet rock's small enough to fit under most doors anyway. Chameleon's another Power I mentioned as being a good possibility, since it lets the Psicrystal be even harder to spot than it is normally. Control Sound would've probably been better if it were a lower level, though (a Psicrystal's natural Hide modifier is already through the roof, a +10 is only adding insult to injury for most at that point, but that does bugger-all for noise generation).

[Rubik]

Detect Psionics is always good, as is Far Hand (potentially). How about My Light, for your own personal flashlight?

[Chronos]

My choice would be Chameleon, since it provides an unusual bonus type, and thus stacks with all the other ways of improving Hide.

[aleucard]

Detect Psionics is always good, as is Far Hand (potentially). How about My Light, for your own personal flashlight?

Detect Psionics is the sort of thing that would be best done by me rather than my Psicrystal; I can keep it up for longer, and at higher levels I can actually make the effect permanent if I want. Far Hand would only be useful if it were used to carry an object to me, and the duration and range is short enough that in most situations I'd be at least equally well-served by a Collar of Perpetual Attendance. The Psicrystal can see perfectly fine regardless of the ambient light and I'm going to be getting multiple ways to do the same for my actual character shortly; My Light is functionally useless enough that I'm not even interested in learning it as an Erudite.

Thanks for the suggestions, though. Actually, I have an idea. How many level 1 Powers have a duration of just Concentration, without the 'Up to [insert max duration here]' qualifier? The Psicrystal isn't going to be doing much that constantly burning Standard actions on a potentially useful ability being always-on will prevent.

[Vortenger]

Psychic Warrior, Psychic Rogue, and Ardent are the only class lists you don't pull from and I don't see any must have exclusives on those lists. At which point, discipline powers become the most tasty morsels. Shaper has the coolest level 1 powers from a power and versatility standpoint (imo), but you have several options available to you.

Not many have the concentration thing as level 1 powers. Matter Agitation would be most prominent, methinks.

[aleucard]

I think I have the powers I would select for Hidden Talent narrowed down. Skate for added speed and minor utility, Hidden Pocket from Complete Psionics for utility (though how many things a Psicrystal would be needed to retrieve that are under 1#, Idunno), Entangling Ectoplasm for massive debuff capability (even if I have this myself; also good for helping the Psicrystal outrun small groups), Psionic Grease for area-effect debuff (also can affect larger targets, though is useless against swimmers/fliers), Psionic Minor Creation for general utility (though most uses would be better done by me, sometimes that just isn't an option), Chameleon for sneaking around, and Mindlink for minor utility (this would be basically the only way the Psicrystal would have of communicating with people who aren't me besides scratching out messages until ML 5, although it's also stealthy so it may see some use even after that point). What order would you rank these for, best to worst, both in situations where I'm on-hand and when the Psicrystal is on its lonesome?

I'm still interested in other feats for this thing, by the way. I have several slots to fill.

[Rubik]

You may want to check the psicrystal entry in the psion entry again, because it can explicitly speak one language you know, even without telepathic speech.

[aleucard]

You may want to check the psicrystal entry in the psion entry again, because it can explicitly speak one language you know, even without telepathic speech.

Huh... Any idea why that's not mentioned in the official Psicrystal areas besides there?

This may be enough to remove Mindlink from the list (most uses would be equally effective if not more so if done by me, and the situations where it having that ability when I'm not around would be useful are limited.

EDIT: In the interest of cleaning this up, I'll try to make a table for each category, and order the powers in each top-down from best to worst. Powers that show up in multiple categories will be listed in them at their rating for those categories exclusively.


Type
Buff
Debuff
Utility

First
Chameleon
Entangling Ectoplasm
Psionic Minor Creation

Second
Skate
Grease
Skate

Third


Dimensional Pocket

Fourth


Mindlink

[Svata]

Huh... Any idea why that's not mentioned in the official Psicrystal areas besides there?

Because WotC's editing in 3.5 ranges between meh and horribad.

[Vaz]

Hidden Talent is a bit of a tax until you can afford a +2 Cha item for the Psicrystal, and how a cloak attaches to a crystal is questionable, meaning it is even more expensove for the slotless variety.

[aleucard]

Hidden Talent is a bit of a tax until you can afford a +2 Cha item for the Psicrystal, and how a cloak attaches to a crystal is questionable, meaning it is even more expensove for the slotless variety.

Why'd you need a cloak?

..... I read the listing over again. The Psicrystal needs a Cha of 11+ to manifest a power. Meh, I can wait 2 levels to put a point into that stat. I'll be putting points into that specific stat anyway, I want the Psicrystal to have Lifesense.

[aleucard]

I think I'll pick Chameleon for Hidden Talent. Entangling Ectoplasm may be more widely-useful, but a stealth power fits more in this case.

I'm still interested in your thoughts on other feats to take, though. There are a lot of them. Maybe something for it to take advantage of having focus? My second starter feat will probably be Quick Reconnoiter, since very few situations would exist where it would be better for my Psicrystal to scout than me directly, and really not having Darkstalker doesn't become a massive issue until later levels. I'd probably want to get that feat for myself at roughly the same time, anyway.