trying to pick a few more spells.....kinda stuck.

[bjoern]

Trying to figure out a few more spells for my level 7 sorcerer.

So far I've got the following either through spells known or various magic items.

Level 1. Magic missile, lesser orb of fire, grease, true strike, expedious retreat, mage armor 1/day, nerveskitter 2/day, benign transposition 2/day.

Level 2. Scorching ray, wings of cover, glitter dust, alter self 1/day, invisibility 1/day, mirror image 1/day, ????? 1/day, ???? 1/day

Level 3. Stinking cloud, shivering touch.


My build is kind of BC and some blasting with practical empower spell (+1) can't use anything from enchantment school.

I'm needing 2 more 2nd level spells use able 1/day . Baleful transposition is a likely candidate. Ropetrick may be suboptimal since we have a few bags of holding in party, web is OK but has limitations and I think I have my BC needs covered.

What do you think? I'm open to other ideas regarding my other spells also. Thanks

[Shieldbunny]

Take Rope Trick. Unlike a bag of holding, your extrademinsional space can't be stolen while you sleep. Nothing like waking up to find yourself in a Lich's pocket. :)

[bjoern]

Yeah, I think rope trick would be useful. I've seen a few interpretations regarding it and bags of holding etc.

A bag of holding is a "non dimensional space"

A portable hole is a "extra dimensional space"

A rope trick is a "extra dimensional space"

We know that a combination of BoH and PH is bad from the description under the items.

Under ropetrick it warns against creating or taking an extradimensional space (portable hole) into it. It doesn't make any mention of a hazard when you take a nondimenaional space (bag of holding) into it.

Do they play nice together or is it an editing oversight?

[Zombulian]

Maybe Pyrotechnics as well? It's just anoter really good 2nd level spell that's nice to have on hand.

[Shieldbunny]

Yeah, I think rope trick would be useful. I've seen a few interpretations regarding it and bags of holding etc.

A bag of holding is a "non dimensional space"

A portable hole is a "extra dimensional space"

A rope trick is a "extra dimensional space"

We know that a combination of BoH and PH is bad from the description under the items.

Under ropetrick it warns against creating or taking an extradimensional space (portable hole) into it. It doesn't make any mention of a hazard when you take a nondimenaional space (bag of holding) into it.

Do they play nice together or is it an editing oversight?

Honestly, I think that's a holdover from 1/2e that the developers sometimes forgot they decided to keep.

[bjoern]

Maybe Pyrotechnics as well? It's just anoter really good 2nd level spell that's nice to have on hand.

I looked at pyrotechnics as well. Do you feel that its redundant with glitter dust?

Glitterdust blinds on a failed will save and reveals invisible

Pyrotechnics blinds on a failed will save OR blinds automatically, plus suck on a failed fort save. But you need a fire source. Which makes it either situationally dependant or its a 2 action maneuver to pull it off.



Do you think access to both is too much overlap? Drop one and grab a different spell?

[Zombulian]

I looked at pyrotechnics as well. Do you feel that its redundant with glitter dust?

Glitterdust blinds on a failed will save and reveals invisible

Pyrotechnics blinds on a failed will save OR blinds automatically, plus suck on a failed fort save. But you need a fire source. Which makes it either situationally dependant or its a 2 action maneuver to pull it off.



Do you think access to both is too much overlap? Drop one and grab a different spell?

I dunno. I'd say it'd be good to have even with the overlap. The smoke part also provides concealment in addition to the debuff. Heck, does concealment give a hide bonus? Because I'm pretty sure if you cast Glitterdust on someone and then put em in a fog cloud you could still pick em out.

[bjoern]

I dunno. I'd say it'd be good to have even with the overlap. The smoke part also provides concealment in addition to the debuff. Heck, does concealment give a hide bonus? Because I'm pretty sure if you cast Glitterdust on someone and then put em in a fog cloud you could still pick em out.

Yes, I believe it does. And I think that you would still be able to see them through the cloud. Granted, they're blind from the glitter dust so the cloud isn't doing much except for debuffing them.

So far I'm thinking
Baleful transposition
Rope trick
Pyrotechnics

I'll have to eliminate one of them.


I'm also thinking about taking haste rather than shivering touch. I think hasting the melee guys would be more beneficial than a dragon killer at level 7.

[Zombulian]

Yes, I believe it does. And I think that you would still be able to see them through the cloud. Granted, they're blind from the glitter dust so the cloud isn't doing much except for debuffing them.

So far I'm thinking
Baleful transposition
Rope trick
Pyrotechnics

I'll have to eliminate one of them.


I'm also thinking about taking haste rather than shivering touch. I think hasting the melee guys would be more beneficial than a dragon killer at level 7.

I would personally take Pyrotechnics over Glitterdust, but that's just me. I also happen to usually have Grease and set it on fire a lot.

[bjoern]

I would personally take Pyrotechnics over Glitterdust, but that's just me. I also happen to usually have Grease and set it on fire a lot.

Yeah. Grease is great. I didn't know that the grease spell was flammable though. For whatever reason I thought it was just a slippery substance. But the spell says "slippery grease" so I guess it would be flammable being conjutation and all.
What kind of damage does that deal when you ignite it?

[Trilby]

Haste saved my bacon so many times, but then all of the other PCs were melee dudes. Alter self was terribly useful, so was Ray of Stupidity, but the spells you have listed are wonderful too. Never regretted adding those to my spell book. Baleful Transposition's increased range turned out to be more important to my party then the 'use it on an enemy' part of the spell. So worth it.
How do you choose (I could never play sorcerer, you have my respect :smallbiggrin:)

[Zombulian]

Yeah. Grease is great. I didn't know that the grease spell was flammable though. For whatever reason I thought it was just a slippery substance. But the spell says "slippery grease" so I guess it would be flammable being conjutation and all.
What kind of damage does that deal when you ignite it?

I use the damage for oil that's on fire that you can buy from the PHB. Unless that doesn't exist and I'm just working off of house rules.

[Renen]

Yeah. Grease is great. I didn't know that the grease spell was flammable though. For whatever reason I thought it was just a slippery substance. But the spell says "slippery grease" so I guess it would be flammable being conjutation and all.
What kind of damage does that deal when you ignite it?

Its not flammable. But with nice DM's it might be

[bjoern]

Haste saved my bacon so many times, but then all of the other PCs were melee dudes. Alter self was terribly useful, so was Ray of Stupidity, but the spells you have listed are wonderful too. Never regretted adding those to my spell book. Baleful Transposition's increased range turned out to be more important to my party then the 'use it on an enemy' part of the spell. So worth it.
How do you choose (I could never play sorcerer, you have my respect :smallbiggrin:)

I love ray of stupidity. But I have enchantment banned so I can't play with that toy :(.

I never even thought about using baleful transposition for longer range on my own guys. That could be handy.

Something i don't have is a way to ground airborne enemies should the need arise. I don't think gust of wind would cover this.

[Zombulian]

I love ray of stupidity. But I have enchantment banned so I can't play with that toy :(.

I never even thought about using baleful transposition for longer range on my own guys. That could be handy.

Something i don't have is a way to ground airborne enemies should the need arise. I don't think gust of wind would cover this.

I have a problem when the first thing I think of for that is "A Truenamer can do that! They can do it! They can do something."

[PaucaTerrorem]

I use the damage for oil that's on fire that you can buy from the PHB. Unless that doesn't exist and I'm just working off of house rules.

You want Incendiary Slime(CMage). Works just like Grease but can be set aflame. 2nd level spell.

[Zombulian]

You want Incendiary Slime(CMage). Works just like Grease but can be set aflame. 2nd level spell.

Well then! Cool.

[HunterOfJello]

Invisibility and Rope Trick are both great 1/day. Minor Image and Baleful Transposition could also be good.


Maybe Pyrotechnics as well? It's just anoter really good 2nd level spell that's nice to have on hand.

I used to think pyrotechnics was a dumb spell because it requires a fire, but now that i think about it if you walk around with a torch, then you can use it whenever you like.

[bjoern]

Invisibility and Rope Trick are both great 1/day. Minor Image and Baleful Transposition could also be good.



I used to think pyrotechnics was a dumb spell because it requires a fire, but now that i think about it if you walk around with a torch, then you can use it whenever you like.

If the torch was your source, wouldn't it blind/ smoke you instead of the enemy?

Also, what amount of fire would be sufficient For this spell? A spark from flint and steel, residual smolders/embers from a fireball last round?

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

Obligatory Ancestral Relic Runestaff (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?267805-Sorcerer-Handbook#4) link, which it looks like you're already doing.

Replace Scorching Ray with Cloud of Bewilderment (SC) or Kelgore's Grave Mist (PH2), and replace Stinking Cloud with Fireball. Also replace Lesser Orb of Fire with Acid or anything else really, you want different damage types on your spells. Cloud of Bewilderment is preferred if you pick up Sculpt Spell (CA), but you could get Wall of Smoke (SC, 1st) for a Fort save attack and use Kelgore's Grave Mist, since that wall can be cast across occupied squares to force an immediate save.

Edit: Another option is to get some pieces of the Raiment of the Four set in MIC, certain pieces of that allow you to cast Fireball, Magic Missile, Freedom of Movement, and Teleport using your own spell slots. In this case get Fireball from the Goggles of the Golden Sun (4,000 gp) and put Heart of Water (CM) on your 3rd level spells. You can get Magic Missile from Gloves of the Starry Sky (1,100 gp) and put Wall of Smoke on your 1st level spells.

[ibtfu]

Hmm, Rope Trick seems like a no-brainer. Second spot there are several choices, but I'd be tempted to take Detect Thoughts.

[Darrin]

At 2nd level, try cloud of bewilderment (Spell Compendium), which is basically stinking cloud in a 2nd-level slot. This lets you put dispel magic or haste at 3rd. If you want dispel magic at 2nd, then try arcane turmoil (Complete Mage) there.