Halfling Monk and Enchanted Shuriken

[TricksyAndFalse]

I'm running a D&D game where next game, the party is going to be ambushed by several Hextorites. The plot calls for an 11th level LE halfling monk to be one of the Hextorites (the reason why is long and unimportant). I've given stats to most of the NPCs, but the halfling monk has given me some pause. Small monks aren't typically all that effective.

As a quick starting point, I used the back of the PHBII to give him stats and feats, so right now, he has the 'Skirmisher' set of feats.

When it came to equipment, though, I thought it might be interesting to equip him with enchanted shuriken. They are pretty cheap (relatively) because they are enchanted as though they are ammunition (1 gp for 5 shuriken, +6 gp/shuriken for masterwork, divide total enchantment price by 50 for each shuriken--enchantment prices listed are per 50 for ammunition, so a single +7 equivalent shuriken would cost 1,967 gp--very affordable for an 11th level monk).

Shuriken (especially small ones) don't do much damage, but if I load them with enough enchantments (maybe unholy, flaming, icy & shocking for a +6 equivalency), it doesn't matter. My monk can then flurry-of-blows with 4 shuriken, using stunning blow on the first shuriken thrown each round, and move around, staying out of reach. If a halfling monk is going to contribute, it seems like a plausible tactic.

He's a disposable NPC, and I expect him to either die or flee, so he doesn't need to be fully optimized. Do you think he'll be sufficiently challenging though? Or am I seriously over-looking something? If I am, how would you build an 11th level LE halfling monk if you had to? If you like the idea, would you build the shuriken differently? I've toyed with the idea of brilliant energy shuriken.

[Fax Celestis]

Unholy humanbane shuriken.

[Quietus]

Give him point blank shot, and some good hiding abilities. Enough to get the drop on the PC's and be annoying, and preferrably stay out of reach. feat choice wise I'd go stunning fist/deflect arrows, and trip or disarm doesn't matter, neither will be worth using anyway. Though ranged disarm does come to mind... but nah.

I'd probably also look into Snatch Arrows as an option. What's more annoying than a halfling monk 20 feet up where you can't reach him? One that makes a DC 20 save (with 7 base, 1 for being a halfling, plus dex and all) to throw your ranged weapons back at you, of course!

::Edit:: Fun idea - potion of spider climb! Or slippers, if you're so inclined.

[cupkeyk]

The halfling monks ARE effective because they get the best DC's for their stunning fist: Halfling Rogue1/MonkX -- Ascetic Rogue, Ability Focus(Stunning Fist) and the seventh level halfling monk substitution level. Add underfoot combat and Giantslayer and sunschool; the halfling monk can clamber up onto an opponent and drive him around with sun school. Fun! Make sure he has reduce person potions if he is fighting larger creatures. Base Stun DC's for flatfooted Large creatures(or medium with reduce person) is 18. Yummy.

Since the DC's of the stuns are pretty high, the halfling gets in the SA damage pretty often and might confuse them with Sun School.

[TricksyAndFalse]

Unholy humanbane shuriken.

The party has only 1 human, but a handful of various race-bane unholy shuriken is not a bad idea at all. This combo makes for less expensive shuriken, which means he can buy more.


Give him point blank shot, and some good hiding abilities. Enough to get the drop on the PC's and be annoying, and preferrably stay out of reach. feat choice wise I'd go stunning fist/deflect arrows, and trip or disarm doesn't matter, neither will be worth using anyway. Though ranged disarm does come to mind... but nah.

I'd probably also look into Snatch Arrows as an option. What's more annoying than a halfling monk 20 feet up where you can't reach him? One that makes a DC 20 save (with 7 base, 1 for being a halfling, plus dex and all) to throw your ranged weapons back at you, of course!

::Edit:: Fun idea - potion of spider climb! Or slippers, if you're so inclined.

Nice ideas. Thanks!


The halfling monks ARE effective because they get the best DC's for their stunning fist: Halfling Rogue1/MonkX -- Ascetic Rogue, Ability Focus(Stunning Fist) and the seventh level halfling monk substitution level. Add underfoot combat and Giantslayer and sunschool; the halfling monk can clamber up onto an opponent and drive him around with sun school. Fun! Make sure he has reduce person potions if he is fighting larger creatures. Base Stun DC's for flatfooted Large creatures(or medium with reduce person) is 18. Yummy.

Since the DC's of the stuns are pretty high, the halfling gets in the SA damage pretty often and might confuse them with Sun School.

The only books I have are the three core books, DMGII and PHBII. I will take you at your word for how cool halfling monks can be, though :smallbiggrin:

[martyboy74]

Best of all, the shuriken may be destroyed when he uses them, so the party can't complain if they're all broken!

[TricksyAndFalse]

Best of all, the shuriken may be destroyed when he uses them, so the party can't complain if they're all broken!

Only one party member is neutral. The rest are all good. So while all the unholy shuriken which get thrown will be destroyed, the remainder will bestow negative levels to most folks who pick them up.

Which raises a different question. Does a good character gain one negative level for each unholy shuriken grabbed? One negative level for each unit of 50? Or one negative level regardless of the number of unholy shuriken?

[Quietus]

I'd go with one negative level for each unit of 50, same as when you enchant ammunition with a spell. Otherwise, you'll randomly and instantly kill any good character that picks up any reasonable number of them.

[its_all_ogre]

don't forget the negative level for 'carrying' them in their flesh once hit....!
(joke)

[Person_Man]

Halfling Monk/Master Thrower with Shuriken of Wounding. Give him the Snatch Arrows feat, and the Trip Shot and Touch Attack tricks.

Another fun option is to make him a Disciple of the Eye (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ex/20060106a&page=2) or Avenging Executioner. I enjoy using Fear effects on my PCs because it challenges them without killing them, and it makes the Paladin feel useful for once.

[Jasdoif]

Which raises a different question. Does a good character gain one negative level for each unholy shuriken grabbed? One negative level for each unit of 50? Or one negative level regardless of the number of unholy shuriken?Since the unholy property's text says the negative level results when a good character attempts to wield them, not simply carry them, I would suggest they get one negative level per hand that's holding any of the shuriken.

[NullAshton]

Have a dual-wielding shuriken user that uses wounding shuriken, with a cohort to enhance them with magic weapon or something. Why?

6 shuriken a round, each doing a point of constitution damage if they hit. Fairly nasty, especially as it weakens them for his allies to take out.

[Desaril]

Call me cynical, but why go through all these calculations and mathematics fora NPC, you'll never use again. Just declare that he does respectable damage everytime he hits. The PC don't have to know why. Just give him four attacks at +15 or so, inflict 3d10/hit and give him good saves. If he's not going to live, all he is is damage and HP, so just write that down.

I believe DMs should follow the rules, but the rules are what the DM makes. Basically, you already know how high you want the halflings attack bonus and damage to be, so just make it that. levels, feats, equipment, et. al. is a means to an end, so just jump to the end.

[Person_Man]

Call me cynical, but why go through all these calculations and mathematics fora NPC, you'll never use again. Just declare that he does respectable damage everytime he hits. The PC don't have to know why. Just give him four attacks at +15 or so, inflict 3d10/hit and give him good saves. If he's not going to live, all he is is damage and HP, so just write that down.

I believe DMs should follow the rules, but the rules are what the DM makes. Basically, you already know how high you want the halflings attack bonus and damage to be, so just make it that. levels, feats, equipment, et. al. is a means to an end, so just jump to the end.

What if the PC casts Dominate Person and the Halfling fails its Save? Then the DM has to fake the Halfling's stats and items for days or weeks.

You need not go into all the details, but I think that filling out a character sheet for important NPCs is a must. Knowing things like feat selection, spells, touch AC, grapple check, etc. makes the game go a lot easier.

[Desaril]

No the GM doesn't have to have the stats. The Halfling still has the same stats as the DM used i.e. HP, BAB, & Damage. He has no other useful skills or abilities. Further, if the DM doesn't want the players to Dominate this halfling; he's immune. Not because the DM is cheating, but because the DM creates the scenario. He has already decided the halfling is a throwaway.

I was thinking more about it and it seems like the DM expects the halfling encounter to work more like a trap. The PCs encounter it, get past it and then forget about it. Why not design it like one? It could be a construct shaped like a halfling that disintegrates when damaged or removed from the area.

My point is not that having well prepared stats isn't important, but as DM you have so many other things that could be taking up your time rather than a throw away villain whose only purpose is to damage the PCs. I would just wing that and if he became more important later, then I would make stats.

[Person_Man]

No the GM doesn't have to have the stats. The Halfling still has the same stats as the DM used i.e. HP, BAB, & Damage. He has no other useful skills or abilities. Further, if the DM doesn't want the players to Dominate this halfling; he's immune. Not because the DM is cheating, but because the DM creates the scenario. He has already decided the halfling is a throwaway.

Well if a Halfling is just randomly immune to Dominate or mind-affecting effects in general, without some sort of feat or magical rationale which the PC's can somehow figure out and/or overcome, then I think that' s pretty much the definition of DM "cheating." It also stifles the players, because there is no apparent rationale behind why this enemy was immune to their magic - it just happened.

So I wouldn't call it cheating, if such a thing is possible for DM's. I would call it railroading. The DM decides that combat is going to go a certain way, and then its resolved that way, regardless of what the PC's actually do.

[TricksyAndFalse]

Call me cynical, but why go through all these calculations and mathematics fora NPC, you'll never use again. Just declare that he does respectable damage everytime he hits. The PC don't have to know why. Just give him four attacks at +15 or so, inflict 3d10/hit and give him good saves. If he's not going to live, all he is is damage and HP, so just write that down.

I'll do this kind of stuff when I'm running Exalted, or some other White Wolf story-teller game, but we're playing D&D because some of us wanted a crunchier game for a while.

[crazedloon]

I relize that the shurkens are a fun option but why not just go with a few returning Sais you can still flurry with them and you dont need to do so much addition and math for the diffrent shurkens.

[Desaril]

@ PersonMan- I think a DM should already know how important parts of the game are going to turn out. If not, the campaign has little direction. However, my suggestion does not create railroading. The DM in this case has already decided that the halfling will either die or flee. If not, I wouldn't have made the comment.

There are many cases where the DM knows the result of a particular scene. My point is that if the end is predetermined, you can wing it without going through the math because the PCs should not be looking at your notes and they should not be able to reverse engineer their antagonists into specific stats.

Most players subconsciously start to figure out their opponents capabilities by thinking about them in game mechanics. For example, in a recent low-level game, I took 15 points of damage from a single short bow attack by an halfling. I immediately started thinking what would allow that result in order to figure out the capabilities of my attacker. In reality, all I would know is that he got in a really good shot. Every now and then the DM should just make something up that they think is fair (the DM, not the rules, is the final arbiter of game balance). It preserves the mystery of the game.

Of course, if you want to figure the stats of every NPC the PCs may encounter on the off chance they Dominate them and make them join the party, go right ahead. But if you know the 4 orcs in the woods are gonna get killed, just say 10 HP, +2 BAB, AC 14 1d6+1 Damage , and +2 Fort save (or whatever). If their purpose is to cause a little damage and then die, then roll the dice behind a screen, announce a little damage every round and then have the orcs die a horrible loud death!

[MeklorIlavator]

If you want the weird factor, make it a kensai, and give him returning Fists. That alone should make the encounter memorable.

[crazedloon]

If you want the weird factor, make it a kensai, and give him returning Fists. That alone should make the encounter memorable.

My first thought was you are stupid but now that I think about it is possible :smallbiggrin:

All you need is +3 so you make your fists +1 for returning +1 for throwing and then the manditory +1

Now I am soooooo tempted to do that just so the character could run around with rocket fists :smallbiggrin:

[SpiderBrigade]

:jawdrop: that is so beautiful.

Of course, if you've ever seen Mazinger, there are some even wierder ideas...

[Jack Zander]

Rapid shot, two-weapon fighting, and quick draw. Then flurry for an extra 3 attacks each round (or more depending on your BAB and two-weapon fighting abilities). Sure, the attacks will be at -4 to -6 depending on level in flurry of blows, but as a halfling thrower he already gets +2 on thrown weapons (+1 racial, +2 DEX). Then make each shuriken wounding so they deal that 1 point of CON damage and all he has to do is hit (not hard with 4-6 attacks each turn). Dump STR and focus on DEX and WIS for attack and AC. That should do well enough for one encounter with him. Ammunition is cheap too.

[Seatbelt]

Now, since you cant detach your fists to throw them, would the halfling be, in effect, throwing himself at his targets?

[crazedloon]

Now, since you cant detach your fists to throw them, would the halfling be, in effect, throwing himself at his targets?

Well it never actualy states how that would work in conjunction with fists however I do like the idea of the monk jumping at the target pummling them and returning to his square

however I still preffer rocket fists. Expecialy when you have +4 so you can make them flaming and they can have flame jets behind the fists :smallbiggrin:

Edit: I have thought this threw far to far I am sooooo going to have to make this character.

[MeklorIlavator]

My first thought was you are stupid but now that I think about it is possible :smallbiggrin:

All you need is +3 so you make your fists +1 for returning +1 for throwing and then the manditory +1

Now I am soooooo tempted to do that just so the character could run around with rocket fists :smallbiggrin:

What would happen if you didn't pick up returning?
That would be wierd for the party:
Fighter: :Hit by the fists: What the H***?
:Fists drop to the ground:

[martyboy74]

http://www.chairemm.polymtl.ca/etudiantes/melanie_nathalie/genie-info/images/rayman.jpg

[Fax Celestis]

If you're looking for mental immunity, there's a ring in the DMG-II that provides a mind blank effect for it's wearer.