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View Full Version : Life Point System - Opinion?



Another_Poet
2014-08-10, 02:11 PM
I have an idea for an alternative to hit points. Or rather, an alternative mechanic for what happens when you run of hit points. I'd like to know what my respected fellow forumites think.

Assume that this is for a humans-only game, or a game system where all the races have similar lifespans. In character creation, you have a maximum age of 70 years. Adventurers must be at least 15, so that gives you 55 effective years to play with.

If you decide to play a 15 year old character you get only a basic package of skills and attributes. For every 5 years by which you increase your age, you get additional skills/talents/stat bumps.

(Unlike in one infamous RPG, you cannot die in character creation. There is a max starting age.)

But there's a tradeoff. The number of years left in your lifespan are called "life points" and are a reserve you can draw on to survive the unsurvivable.

Here's how it would play out in combat:


Gregor the Barbarian is 20 years old and is destined to die at age 70. That means he has 50 life points.
Since he's fairly young, he's also not very experienced. Let's say he has only 15 hit points.
In battle, he takes some nasty wounds. Pretty soon he's low on health. Then he's clipped by an arrow, which drops him to -4 hit points.
Gregor doesn't drop or die. Instead, his hit points reset to 0 and he is still capable of combat. But his life points decline by 4. He is now destined to die at age 66.


Optionally, Gregor could decide to drop unconscious and wounded when he reaches -4, sparing his life points. The idea is that you always have a trade-off to consider between burning life points now vs having them later. In other words, Fate can't let you live today without screwing you over another day.

Potentially, mages who are out of spells/points could fuel an extra spell with Life Points, although this would clearly be an act of desperation.

(For added fun your initial lifespan could be rolled, something like 70+1d10.)

edited to add: This is not meant as an add-on to D&D, but as a core mechanic for a new system. We do not have to assume that damage scales in D&D terms or that resurrection is easily accessible.

What do you guys think?

JusticeZero
2014-08-10, 02:32 PM
I don't see how it would really add all that much. In particular, that thing about being dropped to -4... how often does that happen? By the time you get to the point that bringing teammates back from the dead is a credible and reliable option, it's usually more like being dropped to -39, in my experience.

Cazero
2014-08-10, 02:45 PM
I can see one major flaw as you written it : you can't be sure spending lifepoints will actually have any downside at all because you could be dead or see the campaign stop before it happens.

However, fixing that is not difficult. You simply need to define health problems caused by reaching the most advanced age category (there must be a table for this somewhere), and make that loss of big chunk of lifepoints (5 or more) immediatly triggers one of such effect, in addition to reducing lifespan. Basically, permanent crippling without any new complicated rules.

Another_Poet
2014-08-10, 03:03 PM
I don't see how it would really add all that much. In particular, that thing about being dropped to -4... how often does that happen?

Hopefully, it would encourage tactical thinking. It would be better for groups to back away from battles that were going downhill, or avoid very difficult opponents, because getting dropped has a lasting penalty instead of just requiring healing.

It would also mean that the young, inexperienced character would probably take a lot of risks (lots of Life Points to burn) while the old, skilled ones would be a little more careful. Thematically, I like that.



By the time you get to the point that bringing teammates back from the dead is a credible and reliable option, it's usually more like being dropped to -39, in my experience.

I didn't mean this as an add-on to D&D; I'll edit that into the original post. As a core mechanic for a new system, the damage doesn't have to scale that way.


I can see one major flaw as you written it : you can't be sure spending lifepoints will actually have any downside at all because you could be dead or see the campaign stop before it happens.

However, fixing that is not difficult. You simply need to define health problems caused by reaching the most advanced age category (there must be a table for this somewhere), and make that loss of big chunk of lifepoints (5 or more) immediatly triggers one of such effect, in addition to reducing lifespan. Basically, permanent crippling without any new complicated rules.

To be clear, the character isn't actually aging when they lose life points - they don't grow grey hair or get wrinkled. Rather, their expected lifespan is whittled away. Gregor the Barbarian could die at Age 20 if he wasted enough life points being reckless.

Every player would need to consider how fast they're burning through life points even in a campaign that only spans a few in-game weeks.

JusticeZero
2014-08-10, 03:28 PM
The other issue is that you're trying to solve a "critical existence failure" mechanic by adding... a critical existence failure mechanic. It makes it less than clear what problem you're trying to solve, exactly, since your 'solution' inherently contains the exact same problems as the 'problem'.

Mr. Mask
2014-08-10, 03:38 PM
It's an interesting idea for a system. The rest of the RPG would need to be designed around it--no problem in losing years off your life if the game finishes in less than a year. You also need to consider how much your players will be reduced into negatives, and how much you want the game to be about people burning through their life points. You may also want to consider ways to gain life points for special actions in the game.

Another_Poet
2014-08-10, 04:07 PM
These are all great points Mr. Mask, especially about whether they can earn new Life Points. If so it would have to be hard to achieve.

I think if they actually reach the age at which they are destined to die, it would be cool for them to get some narrative control over their grand exit.


The other issue is that you're trying to solve a "critical existence failure" mechanic by adding... a critical existence failure mechanic. It makes it less than clear what problem you're trying to solve, exactly, since your 'solution' inherently contains the exact same problems as the 'problem'.

I didn't really think I was fixing a problem, per se. There's nothing wrong with "unconscious or dead at 0" except that it's a little boring. I just think having a diminishing reserve is interesting, that's all.

Mr. Mask
2014-08-10, 04:34 PM
Another interesting idea for it is to let them burn some life points in exchange for other services. Magic, getting a bonus on an action, ignoring wounds, etc..

Gaining points ought to be hard, given out as bonuses for completing quests or from rare story items like good luck from fairies or something.

Flashy
2014-08-10, 06:31 PM
I think if they actually reach the age at which they are destined to die, it would be cool for them to get some narrative control over their grand exit.

While I think the idea of a reward for reaching the character's fated end is an excellent one, I sort of question whether this is a good approach. It's not really granting anything since you already have narrative control over your character. That's literally the point of playing. It's threatening to take away something vital to the RPG experience, and it's not even doing a terribly effective job of it. As written the player has the power to make a grand exit anytime they want anyway. Just pick a moment, spend all your life points at once and go out riding a howling explosion of your own subverted destiny.


What I think would be better would be to give a some kind of indirect reward for reaching specific milestones on the path to their fated end. The life point mechanic plays with the idea of destiny as a force of give and take, so embrace the concept on a larger scale. Every time a player hits a milestone (advancing an age category on the predetermined schedule or something) fate now owes them a favor. Not some low grade hero point style favor, but a big favor. A REAL favor. A calling in your marker with the very fabric of history sort of favor. It puts a character on the road to something they really want to accomplish, the destiny that lies in wait for them. Maybe they meet someone they wouldn't have before, or they stumble across an ancient secret that helps them in some significant but personal way, or they get lucky in some other way, and the more milestones they achieve the more the fate they should have had wraps itself around them. (it should be noted that this would require some fairly clear but moderately difficult technique for recovering life points, since you don't want to over-penalize players for using the primary mechanic of the system).

That's not to say that a person who burns through their life points like crazy couldn't ALSO achieve their goals. They could, but by using their life points to change the things happening to them moment by moment. The dynamic wouldn't be "If you reach the end of your life you get the prize" it would be "Do you want to live within the confines of your reality and slowly but safely grow to the point where you've achieved fundamental happiness or do you want to tear yourself out of history, jam a crowbar into the hole and pry something really FUN out behind you, but risk dying old and decrepit long before your time?"

That being said, this would require some pretty careful balance, and probably also the right kind of players.

Another_Poet
2014-08-10, 09:53 PM
Another interesting idea for it is to let them burn some life points in exchange for other services. Magic, getting a bonus on an action, ignoring wounds, etc..

Gaining points ought to be hard, given out as bonuses for completing quests or from rare story items like good luck from fairies or something.

Agreed. As far as redeeming them for other bonuses, it would have to be a big bonus. Spending a year of your life to re-roll something, and still possibly fail? Nah. Spending it to guarantee a crit? Ka-CHING.


While I think the idea of a reward for reaching the character's fated end is an excellent one, I sort of question whether this is a good approach. It's not really granting anything since you already have narrative control over your character. That's literally the point of playing. It's threatening to take away something vital to the RPG experience, and it's not even doing a terribly effective job of it. As written the player has the power to make a grand exit anytime they want anyway. Just pick a moment, spend all your life points at once and go out riding a howling explosion of your own subverted destiny.

What I meant was narrative control on a larger scale... like, "You're used all your life points so your character is fated to die before their next birthday. How would you like to go out?" That strays into GM territory, requesting specific scenes or turns of events that may not have happened otherwise.

However....


<everything else you wrote>

...is fricking perfect. Yes yes yes. Consider it canon.

In fact, I think that a PC who has reached their Fated Time should get all kinds of bonuses and luck powers, in addition to the kind of narrative pull you're describing. Basically they're a walking vessel of Fate, granted a certain amount of specialness until the final blow inevitably lands.

Flashy
2014-08-10, 11:27 PM
What I meant was narrative control on a larger scale... like, "You're used all your life points so your character is fated to die before their next birthday. How would you like to go out?" That strays into GM territory, requesting specific scenes or turns of events that may not have happened otherwise.

Oh that was totally my mistake then, sorry.

Glad you liked the rest of it though!

GorinichSerpant
2014-08-11, 02:16 AM
This reminds me of Death Note, where Death Gods could give you special powers at the price of losing half your remaining life span. I think that a setting for this system with these mechanics needs entitys trading the years of mortals as a commodity.

Some people may try to steal the life spans of other, leading to vampire-like monsters both figurative and literal.

Do all living creatures have life points? If so, can a desperate cornered wolf spend some of it's years to pounce on your throat then get the heck out of dodge? Or is this power reserved only for sentient races or just certain individuals? If everyone has this, how dues it effect normal day-to-day life and ordinary people?

Do ghosts happen when someone is killed before their time has come? If so, can a player die, but still float around, only able to act by spending life points?