PDA

View Full Version : Brawler/Grappler Help needed..



PangolinPie
2014-08-10, 07:27 PM
Alright I guess in this case I just supply a little backstory. Right now the GM who's running the game I'm involved in is coming out of retirement after stopping for about 10 years or so. I offered to assist as something of a co-GM to assist with players deciding on character builds and all that. So far everyone I've done character work for has been agreeable and loved what I've done for them. (I do a good balance of optimization and generally fun/thematic builds; I may post some of these builds soon for feedback) but one particular indecisive player is being a pain as far as what he wants to do...so heres where I need help.

He wants to play a Naga (homebrew: http://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/Nagas_(3.5e_Race)) which the GM approved of and his overall idea for a theme is an unarmed grappler/brawler who works as a bounty hunter type character. We already applied the Feral template for the natural weapons and strength bonus and the GM also approved the use of the Jotunbrud feat despite the racial requirement...but heres the issue...

This particular player has NEVER played D&D before. He's an amazing roleplayer as far as characterization is concerned (former drama geek), a great storyteller and one day I could even see him being an amazing GM himself. But because he's a first timer, stuff like an unarmed Swordsage with the maneuvers/stances along with the Totemist with the chakra infusions and all that seem like a bit much for a first time player to handle. And he's not a fan of the Black Blood Cultist...he doesn't like the whole "savage beast" angle despite using the Feral template.

Right now the build I'm playing with involves mixing the Thug Fighter Variant with Urban Ranger, a dip in Monk and then either Justiciar or Bloodhound for that bounty hunter theme he seems so fond of...we already have a Dwarf Champion of Gwynharwyf and a Goliath Warhulk for the main tanker/meatshield roles so he'd be a backup martial fighter if anything...

I guess what I'm getting at is, what options do I have left so he doesn't get left too far behind along with that LA +1 for being a Naga?

Psyren
2014-08-10, 07:37 PM
Just let him buy off (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/races/reducingLevelAdjustments.htm) the LA and it shouldn't be an issue for long. I'm a little concerned that his race has a natural attack, 30ft. blindsense (albeit a little restricted), +4 physical total, natural armor, darkvision, constrict and poison all for LA 1 but if you guys are fine with it then it should be okay.

I'll let someone else critique the build itself. My only other concern is that so far everybody in the party is melee.

PangolinPie
2014-08-10, 07:56 PM
Just let him buy off (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/races/reducingLevelAdjustments.htm) the LA and it shouldn't be an issue for long. I'm a little concerned that his race has a natural attack, 30ft. blindsense (albeit a little restricted), +4 physical total, natural armor, darkvision, constrict and poison all for LA 1 but if you guys are fine with it then it should be okay.

I'll let someone else critique the build itself. My only other concern is that so far everybody in the party is melee.

How does one "buy off" LA?

Thanatosia
2014-08-10, 07:58 PM
How does one "buy off" LA?
If you look, "buy off" in his post is a hyperlink. Click on it and it will teach you how.

PangolinPie
2014-08-10, 08:59 PM
If you look, "buy off" in his post is a hyperlink. Click on it and it will teach you how.

Sorry I missed that...yeah I understand it now. But I get how unarmed fighters are an issue for the most part as far as optimization is concerned unless you go with Swordsage, Totemist or Black Blood Cultist. I've been trying to weigh all manner of classes and feats to get this to run properly and he does have that constrict ability which works better than Improved Pin (he wants to be an interrogator along with a bounty hunter) and he traded in the poisonous bite for the Shinomen Naga ability (Oriental Adventures) to grow wildshape his tail into legs at will...but still trying to figure out how to really make him a formidable opponent.

Vhaidara
2014-08-10, 09:26 PM
Honestly, I recommend teaching him on Swordsage. Better to teach him that early, when you can mold him.

Use cards. Write each maneuver he knows on a card, full book entry. Have him focus on Stone Dragon and Setting Sun for a grappler, with the Diamond Mind counters mixed in.
Have him pick the cards for the maneuvers he wants readied and put them on the table in front of him. Whenever he uses one, have him flip it over until he recovers maneuvers.

Totemist can be fun, but it might be more on the complicated side, mostly do to the bad editing of MoI and the fact that he can automatically use about a third of the subsystem.

BBC is fun, but probably overkill. Just don't let him near Reaping Mauler.

sleepyphoenixx
2014-08-11, 01:53 AM
If you don't want to make things too complex for his first char throwing a build with 4-5 classes, ACFs and variants at him is probably not the way to go.
You want to give him something relatively simple so he can concentrate on learning the game rules, but still able to contribute.

I agree that a Swordsage is a good idea. He can stick with the class for the campaign and ToB is notorious for having a relatively high optimization floor so he'll be able to contribute without a ton of multiclassing. Maneuvers aren't all that complicated and it'll give him some versatility beyond "i hit it with my fists/stick" without the overload that comes with a full caster.
It's also all concentrated in one book which is definitely a bonus for someone who'll probably need to look stuff up pretty regularly for a while.