Rule question on rebuke/control undead and shapechange

[molten_dragon]

What happens to an undead creature that is controlled by greater rebuking if it stops being undead? Specifically, a ghost wizard who knows shapechange got controlled by a dread necromancer. If the wizard uses shapechange to turn into something that isn't an undead anymore, is it no longer under the dread necro's control?

[Curmudgeon]

How are you getting a greater rebuking against Undead? I know that the Deathless domain lets you exercise a greater rebuking against Deathless creatures, but don't know any way to do so against Undead.

[Duke of Urrel]

The FAQs for D&D version 3.5 (June 30, 2008) (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/er/20030221a) may have an answer to your question. It's on page 87.

The question goes like this.


If, while under the effect of a spell that depends on type (such as hold person), my character is transformed into a different creature type by polymorph*, does the spell’s effect remain?


Footnote: *The question and answer uses “polymorph” to refer specifically to spells that rely on the polymorph or alter self spell to adjudicate their effect (including alter self, polymorph, polymorph any object, and shapechange), psionic powers based on the metamorphosis power (including metamorphosis and greater metamorphosis), and any other effect based on either of these lists.

And here's the answer.


A spell only checks to see if you are a legal target when it is cast. If you become an illegal target later (such as via the polymorph spell), the spell remains in effect.

Now, your question pertains specifically to greater rebuking. I am not familiar with this particular power. Is it a spell, or is it a supernatural effect, like the act of rebuking Undead that a negative-energy-wielding cleric can perform? In the former case, I believe the FAQ have an answer for you. In the latter case, we may have to do some interpreting of the rules.

I happen to have done precisely this. The following is a house rule of my own. Feel free to use it if you wish.

My rule is a commentary upon the following passages from the description of the Polymorph subschool, which appears appended to the 2012 printing of the Player's Handbook on page 320, literally the last printed page of the book.


Unless otherwise noted in the spell's description, the subject of a Polymorph spell takes on all the statistics and special abilities of an average member of the assumed form in place of its own, except as follows. […]

In all other ways, the subject's normal game statistics are effectively replaced by those of the assumed form. The subject loses all the special abilities it has in its natural form, including its class features, even if the assumed form would normally be able to use these class features.

Of course, most of the spells in the Polymorph subschool (most of which use the description of the Alter Self spell as their foundation) have specific rules that replace these general ones. Nonetheless, I wanted to achieve some clarity myself, so I invented a definition for the word "statistics" in the passages above.


Statistics

All statistics are theoretically polymorphable, that is, removable and replaceable by spells of the Polymorph subschool. However, I consider polymorphable statistics to include only the permanent attributes a creature may have, that is, all attributes that a creature will have until it undergoes another permanent change. For example, when an ability score changes due to ability drain, aging, experience, a feat, an inherent bonus, or the manifestation of a template, this is a permanent attribute and therefore also a polymorphable statistic. In contrast, I consider a creature's polymorphable statistics not to include any temporary harms, such as temporary ability damage or penalties or lethal or nonlethal damage. I also consider them not to include any temporary benefits, such as temporary ability bonuses, temporary Hit Points, or effects of spells or spell-like abilities with timed durations.

So maybe the decisive factor is whether the effect of greater rebuking is permanent (and therefore polymorphable) or temporary (and therefore not polymorphable).

I hope this helps!

[sleepyphoenixx]

If by Greater Rebuking you mean commanding (as in simply having twice the HD of the creature you rebuke) then it is indeed permanent.

[molten_dragon]

How are you getting a greater rebuking against Undead? I know that the Deathless domain lets you exercise a greater rebuking against Deathless creatures, but don't know any way to do so against Undead.

The DM allowed the Deathless domain power to work on undead.

[Curmudgeon]

OK, then, you're following the rebuke/command rules rather than spell rules, and the special ability lets you automatically command rather than rebuke 1/day.
A commanded undead creature is under the mental control of the evil cleric. The cleric must take a standard action to give mental orders to a commanded undead. You need to use a standard action to command, and the creature must be Undead at the time of the command. So it'll continue to follow the last command before it changed type, but that's it; after that, you have no ability to command the creature.