Domains and Evil Dieties

[Naanomi]

I had a chance to flip through the book at my local shop today; with the thought of the prep work I might need to do to 'convert' my homebrew world to the new ruleset.

Particularly, I looked through the Domains section and found a distinct lack of 'Evil-ish' Domains for the deep end of my pantheon.

I didn't look too thoroughly; was there a section somewhere that had some other domains than the seven in the Cleric section; or hinted at expansion in the DMG or somewhere in the future?

[Yorrin]

We know we're getting Death domain in DMG. That's it for now, though.

[Naanomi]

:smallfrown: I have seven evil Gods in my core pantheon, two of which have 'Trickery', and another two have 'Knowledge' as their only Domains; and one has nothing that cleanly fits (I guess 'Life' is closest to what 'Protection' used to be?). I suppose with only seven (eight with death) to choose from it was inevitable, but still rough.

Still, with Death in the DMG it does leave some hope that others will crop up over time.

[Yorrin]

:smallfrown: I have seven evil Gods in my core pantheon, two of which have 'Trickery', and another two have 'Knowledge' as their only Domains; and one has nothing that cleanly fits (I guess 'Life' is closest to what 'Protection' used to be?). I suppose with only seven (eight with death) to choose from it was inevitable, but still rough.

Still, with Death in the DMG it does leave some hope that others will crop up over time.

Yeah, my pantheon is suffering greatly from a limited Domain list. I'd especially like some elemental domains, but we can always hope for more options in the future.

[Madfellow]

You could homebrew.

[Yorrin]

You could homebrew.

I try to avoid homebrew class content when I run my games, despite having a mostly homebrew setting. I'm also trying to minimize on houserules for this edition until I've run a few games with it. But if it becomes clear that the content I want isn't coming it's something I'll certainly consider.

[Human Paragon 3]

Maybe steer your players away from the evil gods until the material to support them comes out. Or limit them to the ones with well-defined domains.

[Naanomi]

I try to avoid homebrew class content when I run my games, despite having a mostly homebrew setting.
I operate along the same lines; homebrewing setting while allowing the vast majority of crunch to fall on 'official sources'.


Maybe steer your players away from the evil gods until the material to support them comes out. Or limit them to the ones with well-defined domains.
Probably, and let them all know that stuff is subject to 'Retcon' suddenly and unabashedly if new content is released that fills those gaps.

[CyberThread]

Why do you think they left death in the DMG? I don't think it could be a big enough draw to have that be a selling point.

[Yorrin]

Maybe steer your players away from the evil gods until the material to support them comes out. Or limit them to the ones with well-defined domains.

Yeah, that's what I'm already doing. I've already talked to the Cleric in my first campaign and she's going to be running Nature Domain.


Why do you think they left death in the DMG? I don't think it could be a big enough draw to have that be a selling point.

I think they just decided to put all the explicitly "evil" content in DMG (Death Domain and Blackguard Paladin are the ones we know about). Except, y'know, Warlock stuff.

[Naanomi]

I think they just decided to put all the explicitly "evil" content in DMG (Death Domain and Blackguard Paladin are the ones we know about).
Which is somewhat unfortunate, since I prefer my Death Gods to be Neutral in general; unless it has a Necromantic bent

[Yorrin]

Which is somewhat unfortunate, since I prefer my Death Gods to be Neutral in general; unless it has a Necromantic bent

Mine is LN and hates Necromancy. Which might make Death Domain a bit problematic in various ways.

[Kuulvheysoon]

Well, Kelemvor has the Death Domain, and he actively encourages his clergy to hunt down undead, so....

Really, we'll have to wait and see if the new Death Domain is more like 3.5, or more like 3.5's Repose Domain (the "non-evil" death domain).

[HorridElemental]

I think they just decided to put all the explicitly "evil" content in DMG (Death Domain and Blackguard Paladin are the ones we know about). Except, y'know, Warlock stuff.

Well the warlock isn't really inherently evil, I've seen many Chaotic Good, Lawful Good, and Lawful or Chaotic Neutral warlocks in the day.

However, evil domains and specially evil classes are inherently evil. They may want to stay away from that.

[Yorrin]

Well the warlock isn't really inherently evil, I've seen many Chaotic Good, Lawful Good, and Lawful or Chaotic Neutral warlocks in the day.

Oh, certainly. I've played a CG Warlock before. But you've got to admit that Infernal Pact is, by default, pretty evil. Not difficult to justify a non-evil Infernal pact, just not default.

[micahwc]

I had a very long, nicely typed discussion where I outlined how I thought it would be cool to have an evil deity use traditionally good domains, but my machine crashed before I could send it. I've condensed it into the summary below:

I think Healing and Nature would both be cool as domains for an evil deity.

[Yuki Akuma]

I can certainly see 'Nature' belonging to an evil 'Civilisation is abominable' deity.

And healing spells make for effective torture. Little to no risk in killing your victim, after all.

[HorridElemental]

Oh, certainly. I've played a CG Warlock before. But you've got to admit that Infernal Pact is, by default, pretty evil. Not difficult to justify a non-evil Infernal pact, just not default.

The abilities aren't really evil, just mostly the fluff. Also, I see more good aligned people taking that pact than evil, deals with the devil are usually started with good intentions after all.

Of course, I hate that necromancy and death has to always be associated with evil. In a world where the afterlife is known and you get your reward/punishment... Death is more of a lawful matter than an evil matter.

Murder is evil, death is not. Raising undead? Depends on your reason for doing so. Recycling isn't evil and it falls back on opinions of desecration of corpses. I always loved my 3.5 LG Necromancer Wizard. Totally used metamagic to turn evil spells to good spells ;D

[Yorrin]

The abilities aren't really evil, just mostly the fluff. Also, I see more good aligned people taking that pact than evil, deals with the devil are usually started with good intentions after all.

Of course, I hate that necromancy and death has to always be associated with evil. In a world where the afterlife is known and you get your reward/punishment... Death is more of a lawful matter than an evil matter.

Murder is evil, death is not. Raising undead? Depends on your reason for doing so. Recycling isn't evil and it falls back on opinions of desecration of corpses. I always loved my 3.5 LG Necromancer Wizard. Totally used metamagic to turn evil spells to good spells ;D

I'm going to go ahead and drop this right here. I've seen too many threads on the 3.5 boards spiral into arguments on morality and how the setting/developers can/can't/do/shouldn't dictate a moral code that exists in the game.

[micahwc]

I now want to develop a pantheon where the good deities have "evil" domains and the evil deities have "good" domains.

[Naanomi]

I now want to develop a pantheon where the good deities have "evil" domains and the evil deities have "good" domains.
Although options are limited at this point, my current pantheon layout has Domains on every side of the alignment line... My Hedonistic Sex, Drugs, and Rock'n'Roll God has 'Light' to represent both sensory over-stimulation and (paired with 'Trickery') a way to play up a 'not really evil, just fun!' angle.

Likewise I have an evil Nature God (Savage 'nature red in tooth and claw' type); and an evil Life God (A God representing Racist/Nationalist mentality of 'my own people above all others).

Of course, as the topic says, with only 7/8 Domains to choose from, a diverse evil pantheon has little option but to pick up a few traditionally positive options.

[HorridElemental]

I'm going to go ahead and drop this right here. I've seen too many threads on the 3.5 boards spiral into arguments on morality and how the setting/developers can/can't/do/shouldn't dictate a moral code that exists in the game.

I was more reffering to the fact that Warlock mechanics don't require anything evil for them to work. As in, the warlock doesn't have to kill or sacrifice a baby each time they want to use their abilities. Now, the Necro-whatever-Incarnum prestige class or whatever from 3.5, now that was evil mechanics right there. Killing creatures for essentia and all that.

I think the smarter decision is to make multiple abilities and spells for the same domain. Two death gods may have vastly different views on death, one could be all "let's kill everyone" and the other could be "natural order". Both could raise undead for their own purpose or perhaps one or the other detest raising undead.