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Mongobear
2014-08-11, 10:43 AM
I am working on a new campaign world, that is loosely based on the stereotypical Norse mythology, think Skyrim if it didnt have any of the actual Elder Scrolls elements included.

My problem, is that I dont know what kinds of common folk-lore and cultural myths are specifically originated from this specific area of the world.

Can anyone lend a hand, either by listing off common cultural myths and legends that either originated in the Viking/Norse dominated areas of the world, or Legends that are typically tied to that specific region or time period such as Vampires to Transylvania.

Metahuman1
2014-08-11, 12:54 PM
Reverence for Battle, Sea-manship/Craftsmanship related to Ships, metal working (Arms and Armor Smiting.).

Preference for dying in battle.

Frost Giants and Valkyries are fairly stereotypical Norse Myth figures.

Mongobear
2014-08-11, 01:09 PM
Reverence for Battle, Sea-manship/Craftsmanship related to Ships, metal working (Arms and Armor Smiting.).

Preference for dying in battle.

Frost Giants and Valkyries are fairly stereotypical Norse Myth figures.

I guess I wasnt 100% as clear as i thought, but thanks for the attempt.

What I mean by Fantasy Elements, was folk legends and/or "fairy tales" that may have originated in that region of the world.

I know most of the vanilla features like, Valkyries and reverence for battle, but I am looking more for stuff like the Norse equivalent of Goblins, Fairies, Zombies, and other supernatural beings of the sort, if they even exist.

Metahuman1
2014-08-11, 01:16 PM
Well, I know of an old story about a sword lodged in the world tree (the name of witch I cannon spell.) and I recall hearing a theory somewhere that this story is believed to have inspired Arthurian Lore in the form of the story of the Sword in the Stone.

The Norse Equivalents to Fairy's would be various flavors of Elves, not sure about goblins.

Gracht Grabmaw
2014-08-11, 01:20 PM
A lot of trolls and giants in norse myth are shapeshifters and tricksters and most of them eat people. So expect a little paranoia. This is a culture where most people have lift in isolated villages for most of their lives and next strangers coming into town might be merchants bringing new wonders but they might also be viscious raiders. Or the aforementioned trolls, who knows.

Airk
2014-08-11, 02:29 PM
Uh. Are you asking "What parts of Norse mythology are fantasy?" because the answer is ALL of them. :P

If you're asking what the "distilled essence" of Norse Mythology is, well, here are a few highlights:

Ragnarok - this ties into a ton of stuff. Valkyries, Valhalla, wanting to die in battle, Einherjar, and colors pretty much everything else. The world is doomed. Ragnarok is going to happen, sooner or later. And the Einherjar (spirits of fallen warriors, essentially) who are choosen from amoung the slain on the battlefields by the Valkyries, and who hang out partying and fighting in Valhalla are the chosen of Odin who will fight for the gods at that time. But the world is still doomed. But we're gonna fight the good fight anyway.
Runes - these things correlate directly with wisdom which correlates directly with Magic. Which is scary and always comes with a price.
Giants (Also, trolls) - Both Frost and Fire giants are straight out of the Norse. (Jotunn) The live in...wait for it... Jotunnheim (The Giant Home). Which segues into:
Worlds; Midgard, Asgard, Jotunnheim, etc.


To answer other questions, there are Norse "elves" (Alvar), but a whole lot of the elf/dwarf/goblin thing is really conflated in the Norse and it's not really clear what means what. There are plenty of "monsters" but most of them, again, are a little bit conflated and it's not clear exactly what they are (Example: Draugr (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Draugr))

But really, you're probably better off doing a little bit of lazy research. Start with wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Norse_mythology), then wander around the web a bit. Places like this (http://www.viking-mythology.com/)do a lot of good summarizing.

No one is going to call you on your authenticity or lack thereof, because this stuff is so mixed together and thirdhand even for scholars.

Mongobear
2014-08-11, 04:45 PM
Uh. Are you asking "What parts of Norse mythology are fantasy?" because the answer is ALL of them. :P

Not really, I kind of already have a grasp on the very basic concepts of the idea of Norse Mythology. Im looking more towards specific instances of their cultural folk lore.


If you're asking what the "distilled essence" of Norse Mythology is, well, here are a few highlights:

Ragnarok - this ties into a ton of stuff. Valkyries, Valhalla, wanting to die in battle, Einherjar, and colors pretty much everything else. The world is doomed. Ragnarok is going to happen, sooner or later. And the Einherjar (spirits of fallen warriors, essentially) who are choosen from amoung the slain on the battlefields by the Valkyries, and who hang out partying and fighting in Valhalla are the chosen of Odin who will fight for the gods at that time. But the world is still doomed. But we're gonna fight the good fight anyway.
Runes - these things correlate directly with wisdom which correlates directly with Magic. Which is scary and always comes with a price.
Giants (Also, trolls) - Both Frost and Fire giants are straight out of the Norse. (Jotunn) The live in...wait for it... Jotunnheim (The Giant Home). Which segues into:
Worlds; Midgard, Asgard, Jotunnheim, etc.

This stuff is the basic ideas that are most commonly brought up with any type of google search, which i had tried wording 6 ways from sunday, and kept getting the same results, or references to the various books based on historical elements of the region.



To answer other questions, there are Norse "elves" (Alvar), but a whole lot of the elf/dwarf/goblin thing is really conflated in the Norse and it's not really clear what means what. There are plenty of "monsters" but most of them, again, are a little bit conflated and it's not clear exactly what they are (Example: Draugr (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Draugr))

This is close to what I am looking for, and I couldnt find anything on the specific ideas that described these kinds of creatures.

To put it as plainly and generalised as I possibly could, If I were to open up all of the various Monster Manuals and other D&D books with Monster statistics, which creatures would fall under the "Norse Mythology" category, or have roots based in some way from Norse legends or folk lore?


But really, you're probably better off doing a little bit of lazy research. Start with wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Norse_mythology), then wander around the web a bit. Places like this (http://www.viking-mythology.com/)do a lot of good summarizing.

No one is going to call you on your authenticity or lack thereof, because this stuff is so mixed together and thirdhand even for scholars.

I already basically did this, and kept getting redirected to excerpts from historic accounts of Viking encounters, or parts of the Poetic Edda? if thats how its spelled.

Airk
2014-08-11, 06:22 PM
Not really, I kind of already have a grasp on the very basic concepts of the idea of Norse Mythology. Im looking more towards specific instances of their cultural folk lore.

I don't understand. It sounds like you are saying "I already understand Norse Myth, so I'm looking for information specifically about Norse Myth". :smallfrown:



This is close to what I am looking for, and I couldnt find anything on the specific ideas that described these kinds of creatures.

To put it as plainly and generalised as I possibly could, If I were to open up all of the various Monster Manuals and other D&D books with Monster statistics, which creatures would fall under the "Norse Mythology" category, or have roots based in some way from Norse legends or folk lore?

So you don't actually care about "Norse Mythology" you just want a bestiary? Bad news - that's going to be super boring. Unlike the Greeks, the Norse really didn't go in for a lot of specifically described one-off monsters.


I already basically did this, and kept getting redirected to excerpts from historic accounts of Viking encounters, or parts of the Poetic Edda? if thats how its spelled.

Uh, the second link I provided does a pretty good job of at least being an index. If you want "stories" you can go HERE (http://norse-mythology.org/tales/) (which also does a good job of breaking down the who's-who). But you're not going to find a list of Norse "monsters", because there kindof AREN'T any. There's Fenrir. He's a singular huge wolf! That's pretty typical of how Norse Myth 'monsters' work - they're something that already exists, only moreso. Giants are basically big, angry people. There are several named Wolves, at least one named Boar, but the Norse just didn't go in for the creation of weird, out there "chimera" or "medusa" style stuff.

MrConsideration
2014-08-11, 06:22 PM
Sea Serpents like the Jormungandr, Giants (Jotunn) of all stripes and elements, Dwarves and Elves (the two were sort of interchangeable in Norse mythology in truth - emphasize their magic, lore and craftsmanship more than combat ability), Dragons (as mindless monsters), giant wolves, oxen etc to accompany the giants....

An awful lot of Fey could fit, especially those with a winter theme, for the Alfar of Norse mythology.

Due to the focus on shape-shifting (there's some fantastic stuff in the Eddas about people being scared of the Suomensuoko Finns because they turn into Bears to fight, and a great story about a royal advisor turning into a whale to swim to Iceland to see if it is vulnerable to attack) so werecreatures and shapeshifters would be a nice fit. A Norsefied Hengeyokai race might be a good idea. Similarly, there are a lot of witches and sorcerers in the sagas, so lone magic users, hags and the like would be a nice choice for longer-term villains or adventure-hooks.


The trouble you might have here is that, thanks to Tolkein and the impact of the Norse Saga on medieval Romance literature, 'Norse Mythology' and the sort of standard cookie-cutter fantasy settings overlap an awful lot so finding a really distinctive flavour might be difficult. Considering jumping into lesser-known but related mythology, like the Irish Fey or the Slavic, for something a bit more flavoursome.

AmberVael
2014-08-11, 06:35 PM
If you're feeling uncertain about what would typically be in the stories of nordic culture, I strongly recommend actually reading some of the sagas. They can be quite entertaining. One of my favorites involves a guy who could turn into a bear, his son who was half an elk, his other son who killed a dragon (and fed its heart to a poor guy getting picked on by berserkers), a jarl who decided being called a bean pole made for a good name, and a half elf sorceress who was so pissed off at everyone that she raised an evil army, raised it again as undead when it died, and then set herself up as queen (until half-elk dude murdered her). This is Hrolf Kraki's Saga, by the way.

You can find a lot of these stories for free here. (http://www.northvegr.org/) The website is a little annoying to navigate, but its worth checking out.

Mongobear
2014-08-11, 06:46 PM
I don't understand. It sounds like you are saying "I already understand Norse Myth, so I'm looking for information specifically about Norse Myth". :smallfrown:



So you don't actually care about "Norse Mythology" you just want a bestiary? Bad news - that's going to be super boring. Unlike the Greeks, the Norse really didn't go in for a lot of specifically described one-off monsters.



Uh, the second link I provided does a pretty good job of at least being an index. If you want "stories" you can go HERE (http://norse-mythology.org/tales/) (which also does a good job of breaking down the who's-who). But you're not going to find a list of Norse "monsters", because there kindof AREN'T any. There's Fenrir. He's a singular huge wolf! That's pretty typical of how Norse Myth 'monsters' work - they're something that already exists, only moreso. Giants are basically big, angry people. There are several named Wolves, at least one named Boar, but the Norse just didn't go in for the creation of weird, out there "chimera" or "medusa" style stuff.

What I meant by that, is that I am familiar with the idea of Norse Mythology, from stuff like the Thor movies(even though this is kinda a terrible representation of it) and other pop culture uses of it. What I am looking for is something that I can get an idea of what the culture or population would be like.

Think the realm of Barovia in Ravenloft, it is pretty heavily a representation of modern pop-cultures' stereotype of Transylvania, if there was a Norse Mythology equivalent in Ravenloft, what would the setting be like. Like what types of creatures or folklore would be prevalent with the villagers, or what types of creatures would be at home in that sort of setting.

Airk
2014-08-11, 09:55 PM
Think the realm of Barovia in Ravenloft, it is pretty heavily a representation of modern pop-cultures' stereotype of Transylvania, if there was a Norse Mythology equivalent in Ravenloft, what would the setting be like. Like what types of creatures or folklore would be prevalent with the villagers, or what types of creatures would be at home in that sort of setting.

So...less the essence and more the exaggerated version. Got it.

There would be relatively few people; They would live in either isolated villages or small "steadings" build around a Chieftain's Hall. The people would be insular, leaving home seldom, except perhaps to raid. The spaces between settlements would be utterly wild - home to ravenous beasts and animals and mischievous spirits. Giants would occasionally raid.

Meanwhile you've got a bunch of gods making trouble up in Asgard. They are meddlers, and prone to appearing in 'disguise' to give mortals things to do.

Ravens_cry
2014-08-11, 10:23 PM
One thing people forget often is that the Norse, along with raiding, were also explorers and traders, with a contingent of Norse that made it far as Constantinople becoming the royal guard, and, of course, making it to North America.

Vereshti
2014-08-12, 09:12 PM
One thing people forget often is that the Norse, along with raiding, were also explorers and traders, with a contingent of Norse that made it far as Constantinople becoming the royal guard, and, of course, making it to North America.

Aye, and that's how you have the discovery (http://irisharchaeology.ie/2013/12/the-helgo-treasure-a-viking-age-buddha/) of a bishop's crozier from Ireland, a Coptic ladle from Egypt, and a Buddha statuette from northern India in one Swedish archaeological dig.

Ravens_cry
2014-08-12, 09:35 PM
Aye, and that's how you have the discovery (http://irisharchaeology.ie/2013/12/the-helgo-treasure-a-viking-age-buddha/) of a bishop's crozier from Ireland, a Coptic ladle from Egypt, and a Buddha statuette from northern India in one Swedish archaeological dig.
I think I remember hearing that. Also, they were a very clean people. Now, the Middle Ages weren't quite as dirty as people often think, but they still stood out. Which makes sense, those beards would get awful matted and tangled if left alone for very long.

Beleriphon
2014-08-12, 10:39 PM
Elves live in everything. Ask somebody frome Iceland about where the elves live. They'll give you and answer, and probably the last time they saw one.

As for other creatures trolls, but not just D&D style trolls. The big dumb oafs that turn to stone in daylight. If you can find it watch the Swedish movie Troll Hunter. Its the in the vein of found footage films like The Blair Witch Project, although its a whole lot more fun.

Arbane
2014-08-12, 11:55 PM
I found this map, for a little (funny) cultural context:

http://38.media.tumblr.com/316f4a7682553988d582c49c6178da8d/tumblr_n44i1kMblh1s7n71mo1_1280.png

Eldan
2014-08-13, 01:52 AM
That's absolutely hilarious, that map. Though I'm not sure where "people with manners" comes from. I'll have to look up what the situation was there.

As for a cultural bid: always remember that magic is for women and unmanly. Unless you're Odin. Or just a really good singer. Or know how to turn into an animal. Or can forge objects of wondrous power. Or...

veti
2014-08-13, 05:47 PM
'Elves' are sort of everywhere, in the same way as gods are. In fact, they're more like gods than like the generic fantasy 'elves'. Not quite as powerful, but just as mysterious and mostly intangible. You wouldn't expect to interact with them in the same way you do with humans.

'Trolls' are much more tangible. They come in many varieties - the hulking big slow-witted kind (think ogres), the cunning nimble quick-witted kind (kobolds), and the kind that looks and acts just like a human until for some reason the facade drops. (Peer Gynt.)

'Giants' - D&D's fire and frost giants are directly inspired by Norse mythology, but they've been massively scaled down to make for a more manageable encounter. A large frost giant is a glacier. A large fire giant is a volcano. Mere mortals can't fight them.

In general, forces of nature are sentient and purposeful. They can sometimes be negotiated with, but never reliably controlled. "Elementals" aren't a thing in Norse mythology.

For me, this game would contain much more negotiating, exploring and trickery than combat. Norse culture is about a small, self-contained unit or community operating deep in hostile territory. A stand-up fight, even if it looks quite small and manageable, carries with it huge risks and miniscule payoff, so it's very much a last resort. The whole "dying in battle" thing is reserved for real, purposeful battles, not meaningless brawls.

Mongobear
2014-08-13, 06:36 PM
Most of the replies so far have been helpful, but are still vague enough that I am still in search of that "perfect" answer.

I am familiar enough with the idea of Norse Mythology, and the basics of certain aspects, such as Valhalla, Ragnarok, Giants/Jotuns/Trolls and the basic structure of the "Realms" (Jotunheim, Asgard, Neifleheim, Midgard, etc) and I know enough that the day to day life, wasnt a bunch of angry dudes boating around northern Europe pillaging and raping anything that moved, that the average "Viking" was more of a traveller/explorer.

What I am ideally seeking, is the types of local legends, or myths a small community would have, and whether there is an already created creature in one of the many Monster Manuals or similar books that I could use to represent it. I realize that local legends and whatnot can literally be anything, but I am looking for a creature or folklore that is SPECIFICALLY originating from Scandinavia/Denmark/Finland/Sweden/etc, "Norse" countries. Sort of in a way the Vampires are iconically Eastern European.

EXAMPLE: One of my all time favorite movies/books is The 13th Warrior/Eaters of the Dead. I am looking stuff on the level of similar situations like the primitive Wendorf creatures, but preferably, more Fantastical. Something that until the characters realized they were something more mundane, seemed like shapeshifting Bear-Men that could not die.

And yes, I have already planned/though of using an exact situation like the entire basis of The 13th Warrior, but everyone in my group has seen the movie, so they would call me on it immediately.

veti
2014-08-13, 06:53 PM
What I am ideally seeking, is the types of local legends, or myths a small community would have, and whether there is an already created creature in one of the many Monster Manuals or similar books that I could use to represent it. I realize that local legends and whatnot can literally be anything, but I am looking for a creature or folklore that is SPECIFICALLY originating from Scandinavia/Denmark/Finland/Sweden/etc, "Norse" countries. Sort of in a way the Vampires are iconically Eastern European.

I think you may be looking for a contradiction, then, because "monsters" in those sorts of stories are characterised by immense vagueness. That's what makes them so scary - you can and will never find or know anything approximating to a "stat block" for them. Knowing that you just hit an enemy for 10 damage is of very little comfort, if you have absolutely no idea whether it's likely to have 20 HP or 200.

For an illustration of the problem you're setting yourself, read the Wiki page on Grendel (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grendel) and imagine converting that into a Monster Manual entry.

Beleriphon
2014-08-13, 06:55 PM
What I am ideally seeking, is the types of local legends, or myths a small community would have, and whether there is an already created creature in one of the many Monster Manuals or similar books that I could use to represent it. I realize that local legends and whatnot can literally be anything, but I am looking for a creature or folklore that is SPECIFICALLY originating from Scandinavia/Denmark/Finland/Sweden/etc, "Norse" countries. Sort of in a way the Vampires are iconically Eastern European.

So you're looking for the Nordic equivilent of western and eastern European fairy tales? The kinds of stories that have the common thread and get told to children to make them behave? You'd have to ask a native of a Scandanavian country specifically, if you're looking for ancient tales in that vein. Much of Hans Christian Anderson's work is at least partially derived from Norse roots you can look to the Brothers Grimm as well.

Mongobear
2014-08-13, 07:03 PM
I think you may be looking for a contradiction, then, because "monsters" in those sorts of stories are characterised by immense vagueness. That's what makes them so scary - you can and will never find or know anything approximating to a "stat block" for them. Knowing that you just hit an enemy for 10 damage is of very little comfort, if you have absolutely no idea whether it's likely to have 20 HP or 200.

For an illustration of the problem you're setting yourself, read the Wiki page on Grendel (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grendel) and imagine converting that into a Monster Manual entry.

So youre saying that, apart from the Giants, there isnt a single monster in any D&D book that originates from that region of the world? Or is even loosely based on something from a Norse culture?

What about the Fossergrim from Fiend Folio? Its basically a male equivalent of a Nymph, but I coulda sworn it was based on something from Norse folk tales. Granted, it isnt exactly the greatest creature to base an adventure on, but just as an example.

veti
2014-08-13, 07:50 PM
So youre saying that, apart from the Giants, there isnt a single monster in any D&D book that originates from that region of the world? Or is even loosely based on something from a Norse culture?

No, certainly not. Obviously there are a number of monsters that are. Trolls, for a start. Were-bears and, to a lesser extent, werewolves. Wyverns and wights. The idea of a wise, talking raven (Blackwing) comes from there. If you broaden your definition of 'Norse' only very slightly, you can also throw in kobolds and selkies.

But they're not very closely related to their mythological sources, the mythical versions can invariably do a whole lot of things that the codified ones can't, and in my experience at least, encounters with the book versions play out nothing whatever like anything from mythology.

LibraryOgre
2014-08-14, 12:45 AM
Can anyone lend a hand, either by listing off common cultural myths and legends that either originated in the Viking/Norse dominated areas of the world, or Legends that are typically tied to that specific region or time period such as Vampires to Transylvania.

Lots of Nordic mythological creatures are shape-shifters or tricksters... things like the Hulda, who looks like a beautiful woman, but when seen from behind is actually hollow, and eats men. Many creatures, giants included, are shape-shifters, so that creature you winged a rock at because you were annoyed may be far more powerful than you suspected.

There are also the wights and the vaettir; the spirits of the land, house, and family. The disir are the familial spirits that watch over the bloodlines; they're all female.

In most cases, wizards and witches and the like are either women or men of low standing; even Odin, in learning women's magic, spent some time living as a woman to master seithr. The Norse deities aren't exactly genderfluid, but they're certainly a bit genderqueer... Odin lived as a woman. Thor cross-dressed (to retrieve his hammer, but still). Loki has children by two different women... and, himself, gave birth to a horse.

It's important to note that women are not inherently low status, but their power is viewed differently than men's power (as seen in the demarcation between the woman's magic of seithr and the more gender-neutral magic of galdr and the runes).

Eldan
2014-08-14, 02:52 AM
If you want Scandinavian legendary creatures, you could start here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Scandinavian_legendary_creatures

Appart from that, no, there's quite a bit in the monster manuals for D&D.

The giants, of course. The elves, too, are originally from there, if quite a bit different. And dwarves. And kobolds, around a lot of corners. Wights. The Fensir Troll in the Fiend Folio. Valkyries in Tome of Battle. And as you said, the Fossegrimm. The Nightmare (depending on the version, female, demonic or horse-like). Draugr, if they were ever statted up in D&D. They probably were. Krakens, though D&D gave them spells for some reason, perhaps better use just giant squids/octopodes.

http://www.worldoftales.com/Scandinavian_folktales.htmlHere's a few tales, mostly from the Edda.

Spacebatsy
2014-08-14, 03:12 AM
To be able to contribute, what you're looking for is it:
a) Nore mytology with stories about Odin and the world created in these myths (and in that case are you intererste din stories, the world, the creatures living there, the mindset etc)
b) Legends like the poetical Eddan (blurring into a), however)
c) Scandinavian folkelore about trolls, Huldan etc existing alongside Christianity, but much later than the norse mytology, and was strongly connected to the farmer culture


Is it any or all of these that interests you? Is it mainly creatures you would like to know about or do you want to be able to tell stories about heroes, gods, why the world is as it is and what lurking things you should beware of? I have a lot of information concerning both a and c, but a little limited on b. (although I might not now the English names for all the creatures and places, and tend to be predisposed to the Swedish names over the more widespread Icelandic names)


More than there are certain fantasy races and creatures there is a sense that anything can be magical. Is that mist or the fairies dancing? That elk you’ve been stalking for HOURS is it really just an elk or some powerful creature or a god in disguise? That stranger playing the violin, is it just an ordinary man or is it the Man in the Stream who will bewitch and drown us all? That old woman going to the market, does she have a tail sticking out from under the hem of her dress?

If you put the setting in the mythological world of Norse gods, instead of the ordinary world being affected by it. Then the supernatural will be more pronounced.

Mongobear
2014-08-14, 03:55 AM
To be able to contribute, what you're looking for is it:
a) Nore mytology with stories about Odin and the world created in these myths (and in that case are you intererste din stories, the world, the creatures living there, the mindset etc)
b) Legends like the poetical Eddan (blurring into a), however)
c) Scandinavian folkelore about trolls, Huldan etc existing alongside Christianity, but much later than the norse mytology, and was strongly connected to the farmer culture

Is it any or all of these that interests you? Is it mainly creatures you would like to know about or do you want to be able to tell stories about heroes, gods, why the world is as it is and what lurking things you should beware of? I have a lot of information concerning both a and c, but a little limited on b. (although I might not now the English names for all the creatures and places, and tend to be predisposed to the Swedish names over the more widespread Icelandic names)

A little bit of all three honestly. Ideally I am trying to find stuff similar to say, Grimm's Fairy Tales, but the Scandinavian/Norse equivalents, if they exist, or the types of things you would hear in the local Tavern or around a camp fire seasoned warriors would tell the younger men to put a bit of fear into them. Also, an idea of what types of creatures would be portrayed there-in would be useful where applicable. Not so much about the culture after the Christianity influence began, but if thats required for some aspects, I wont ignore it.


More than there are certain fantasy races and creatures there is a sense that anything can be magical. Is that mist or the fairies dancing? That elk you’ve been stalking for HOURS is it really just an elk or some powerful creature or a god in disguise? That stranger playing the violin, is it just an ordinary man or is it the Man in the Stream who will bewitch and drown us all? That old woman going to the market, does she have a tail sticking out from under the hem of her dress?

If you put the setting in the mythological world of Norse gods, instead of the ordinary world being affected by it. Then the supernatural will be more pronounced.

My world setting is really only loosely based on the Norse culture, sort of a more watered down version of Skyrim, without the Elder Scrolls elements and Dwarven Steampunk society. I am not sure how heavly I will have the Gods interfere with the mortal world, but it is a possibility.

SiuiS
2014-08-14, 04:22 AM
I guess I wasnt 100% as clear as i thought, but thanks for the attempt.

What I mean by Fantasy Elements, was folk legends and/or "fairy tales" that may have originated in that region of the world.

I know most of the vanilla features like, Valkyries and reverence for battle, but I am looking more for stuff like the Norse equivalent of Goblins, Fairies, Zombies, and other supernatural beings of the sort, if they even exist.

The dragon heads of a ship scare away spirits. Upon returnin home they are removed because you don't want to scare your own land spirits.

Trolls instead of giants. Semi-mystical, mysterious and innately magical. Ogres who are cannibals and brutes and murderers but who will owe a favor if you riddle them to a stand a still, or can drink with them until dawn, or know the seven secrets of steelwork the wind kings taught the northern people after they fought to a stand-still.

Riddles and contests being a big deal. Someone who wins in a cheaty way being shunned and his spoils turning to ash in his mouth – unless he's suitably bad-ass and isn't a jerk about it. Odin uses women's magic, for example. But he's sufficiently successful and pragmatic about it that no one can give him guff without themselves looking bad.

Oaths being plot relevant, along with social mores being very important; the man who dies of sickness while his son is at sea, and returns as a vengeful wight. His son returns and, as head of the land, vows to stop whatever fell power terrorizes his land – and blanches when he realizes what he has done, caught between being Kinslayer or Oathbreaker. He lucks out, because his father's dying wish(?) was to die in battle and not a pallid straw death, so as he breaks the wight in hand to hand combat it signs him a blessing. He is dismayed at first, thinking it a curse.

The selfish dwarf who becomes an eel, swimming eternally in his pond to guard his treasure. It is cursed so that the one who slays him through trickery must reveal in honesty his methods, never able to claim the gold as his own honorable gain; undone by the person who slays him neither lying not wishing to keep the gold.

The story of Swan Lake.


These work?

Fable Wright
2014-08-14, 05:09 AM
First and foremost, remember that gods really do walk the earth, and they're actually fairly decent people. Except for Odin and Loki. Odin's a **** and Loki's well... Loki. Before he got chained under the earth with a serpent dripping poison into his eyes, of course. There are a lot of myths about the Gods on earth. I recall one myth (http://www.hurstwic.org/history/articles/mythology/myths/text/thor_utgard.htm), which may be of interest to you. Read it? Now you've seen the illusions that the Jotun were capable of, and the feats of the Gods. Loki ate as fast as wildfire. Thor drank away the sea level, wrestled old age, and raised the world serpent above the ground. Thjalfi, an otherwise normal boy just working with the gods, was barely beaten by the speed of thought in the first race. It also has some interesting lore about Thor's goats, which were slain for dinner and resurrected with Mjolnir at dawn to provide sustenance for Thor.

Some monsters you may be interested in involve Ótr and Andvari, two Dwarves who could take any shape but chose to spend most of their time as an otter and a pike, respectively. There are also the Norns, three female Jotun who were in charge of fate. Their coming to Midgard spelled the end of the idyllic age of the gods, but they would help people in need and were generally good things for mankind. Then, of course, there are Loki's various children, which include Sleipnir, Hel, Fenrir, and Jörmungandr. There were Huginn and Muninn, which are ravens that are literally Odin's thoughts and memories. There are the Einherjer, and the gargantuan boar Sæhrímnir, killed and resurrected as Thor's goats, that feeds both the Einherjer and the Æsir every night. There is of course Grendel, a beshadowed biped covered in welts, spurs, and claw-scales, whose head was so large it took four men to carry, and his mother, a terribly powerful female warrior of the lake who was immune to mortal weapons within her home. There were also the four great stags that ate at the leaves of the Yggdrasil; the Draugr, animated corpses guarding grave-barrows that possessed superhuman strength and could grow to any size, swim through rocks, rise through the earth as smoke, and drive men mad; the Fylgja, beings tied to fate who often appeared in animal form as an omen of death or women as guardian spirits; Garmr, the hellhound; Gullinbursti, the boar forged by dwarves, covered in golden bristles and capable of moving through the air or sea faster than a horse could move by land; Lyngbakr, a giant whale that would pose as an island and wait for settlers to land on its back before drowning them in the sea; the Landvættir, spirits who would bring fertility and safety to their patch of land, as well as fight off invaders (one source claims the Vikings attached dragon prows to their boats to frighten off the Landvættir of the land they raided); the Vörðr, guardian spirits that would watch every soul from its birth to its death, and were related to Warden trees, ancient lindens, ashes, or elms that grew on farms that would protect it from bad luck (though breaking a leaf or twig from one was a terrible offense) and were so respected that families would adopt surnames tied to their trees; Níðhöggr, the terrible dragon that gnaws on the roots of the Yggdrasil and the worst criminals of the Norse cultures; the Ratatoskr, a giant squirrel that carried messaged between Níðhöggr and the eagle atop the Yggdrasil, and who inspired the Ratatosk of Planescape fame (converted to 3.5 in Expedition to the Demonweb Pits); and the Marmennill and Margygur, merpeople who had the gift of prophesy. Further descriptions/other creatures can be found here (http://web.archive.org/web/20031108174910/http://www.northvegr.org/lore/northmen/026.php), despite the terrible visual design of the site.


As for a cultural bid: always remember that magic is for women and unmanly. Unless you're Odin. Or just a really good singer. Or know how to turn into an animal. Or can forge objects of wondrous power. Or...
Not all magic. Nordic magic was divided into Seiðr and Galdr. Seiðr was the womanly craft, which involved divination of the future and cursing distant enemies. Galdr could be used by men or women, and was used to render iron weapons useless, call forth storms, and possibly shapeshift. In other words, Seiðr is the kind of subtle magic and prophesy that D&D has trouble imitating, and Galdr are actual spells, like Speak with Dead, Control Weather, and Ironguard, which the caster could use at will. Odin used both, and was renowned for knowing 18 Galdr from his time on the World Tree.

Nagash
2014-08-14, 07:32 AM
I guess I wasnt 100% as clear as i thought, but thanks for the attempt.

What I mean by Fantasy Elements, was folk legends and/or "fairy tales" that may have originated in that region of the world.

I know most of the vanilla features like, Valkyries and reverence for battle, but I am looking more for stuff like the Norse equivalent of Goblins, Fairies, Zombies, and other supernatural beings of the sort, if they even exist.

Read the eddas of Siegfried and Beowulf.

The norse major enemies were trolls and giants mythologicaly.

Dwarves were sneaky, immortal fey who could control magic but rarely cut a square deal, most of the other major races in D&D games either didnt exist or were so different they might as well not exist and most of the weird gaming monsters could easily be called loki brood.

The major enemies are cold, starvation in winter and the need to raid more fertile places to survive.

A really good norse story would give the cultural glorification's to the raids that they needed to give but bring fourth the inner turmoils these people with a generally honorable culture full of some of the earliest examples of gender equality and democratic law in history went through, and the coils they must have twisted themselves into to justify the raids and square them with their sense of honor.

More then many historical cultures vikings can really create a darker, more complex moral dynamic where PC's have to square their personal ethics with the greater good of their people.

GraaEminense
2014-08-14, 10:50 AM
In the 1800s, Peter Christen Asbjørnsen and Jørgen Moe (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Norwegian_Folktales) travelled extensively in rural Norway and collected fairy tales.

The tales are much later than the period you´re looking for, and they are certainly "cleaned" versions with a lot less sex and violence than the originals. At the core are some very old tales though, and if you rough them up a bit they would fit right into norse culture.

Common themes: Trolls of all shapes and sizes, usually intelligent (but easily outwitted by the hero). Shapeshifting, through magic or curses. The hero saves the princess and gets her and half the kingdom. Magic items and magic (talking) animals, usually stolen from a troll.

They also collected a lot of raunchy "erotic tales", but for some reason they weren´t published until way later. Not sure if they´re available in English, but they are essentially the same kind of tales with someone trying to get laid through magic or trickery.

In sum: Read the Norwegian Fairy Tales by Asbjørnsen & Moe.

Spacebatsy
2014-08-14, 11:15 AM
My world setting is really only loosely based on the Norse culture, sort of a more watered down version of Skyrim, without the Elder Scrolls elements and Dwarven Steampunk society. I am not sure how heavly I will have the Gods interfere with the mortal world, but it is a possibility.
They don’t tend to interfere MUCH rather one could never be sure if that old man in rags was actually the king of gods in disguise or not, so better be polite.

You already have a good few ones, Eldan gave a few great links and DMofDarkness stole my favorite story :smallmad: as well as giving a good overview and links. However, I'll try and contribute


I started writing this for another tread but never got around to post it. Some of it is taken up in Eldans link and a few other posts, but these are based on stories I’ve been told and content of Scandinavian pages so it might be of use anyway.



Skogsrået (The Forest Keeper or The Forrest Lady) or Huldan. She has the form of an extraordinary beautiful woman with long hair, covering her back that is hollow like a tree trunk. She takes care of the forest and the wild animals.
She enchants people (especially hunters) to lose their way in the forest, and one should under no circumstances let her seduce you since you will be forever in her power after that.
Ways to rid oneself of her magic is (if you’re lost in the forest) to take of all your clothes and put them on backwards, lifting her spell and usually realizing where you are. Telling her your wife’s name makes her leave you alone. If suspecting your husband is under her control giving him mezereon or valerian will cure him.
Getting on her good side by being polite to her, respecting the life in the forest or doing her a favor grants you the best of luck when hunting (except when it comes to her personal riding-moose, no arrows or bullets can hit that one).
One story that I read as a child and always found adorable was about two charcoal-burners sleeping side by side in their cabin when the Huldra enters it. Fearstricken they neither say or do anything as the Huldra study them. One of the burners is shorter than the other and the huldra finds this very strange. Grabbing hold of his ankles and pulling him down so that their feats are aligned. Now their heads however are not. She grabs him by the ears and repeats the process. When it does not work she ponders for a bit and then announces. “Stay here. I’ll go and get my knock-knocker and tap you even”
When she leaves the burners naturally does not wait for her return


In some regions she is more of a farmwoman, caring for the fields and domestic animals. She the sports a fox’s tail instead of a hollow back (cowtail in Norway).
One story (as I referred to in the earlier post) is of a farmer going to the market when he spots an elderly woman making her way to town. He notices the tip of a foxtail below the hem of her dress and approaches her.
He then whispers to her politely: “Pardon me Madame, the trail is showing”
She thanked him and hid her tail away. The following month no cows milked better than the farmers.


Näcken/Strömkarlen (The Man in the stream) is a mix between the Kelpie and the devil. He guards rivers and lakes but is generally consider an evil creature. He has the form of a naked man playing the violin. The music is so beautiful it makes anyone who hears it forget about the world. He lures them to the water and drowns them.
Sticking a scissor or knife in the ground next to the water will keep him at bay if you want to swim safely. Sacrificing three drops of blood, a black animal, or strong liquor in the water may convince him to teach you his music. But both playing and listening to Näckens music is dangerous and can drive you mad.
Sometimes he is portrayed as a white or grey horse. However, try to ride him and he will throw himself into the river with his riders and drowning them.

A crossover to christian themed lore, but clearly connected to the man in the stream. Is a famous song (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-zopUsiiuZE) that tells of a small village where the young folks was having a dance. Various musicians played and the dancing went on till late in the night. Then a stranger joins in and starts playing the violin. The music was wild and strange and nobody who heard it could resist to dance. And nobody could stop. As the morning dawns the musician leads the people up to the top of the mountain where they keep dancing in a circle, until their flesh falls off and their bone is grinded to dust. The ring where they danced can still be seen worn into the rock surface and at night one can make out their ghosts still dancing to the music.
In some versions a young woman falls to the floor and realizes that the musician is actually the devil, but she cannot stop her friends dancing


Myling (old word for someone murdered) is the ghost of a newborn baby who has been murdered by its own mother before it’s been baptized and hidden away. They appear in places where their bodies are hidden, in old tales usually in the mires (it’s been said that there isn’t a mire in north of Sweden that hasn’t been hunted by a myling), where the sound of crying babies or children’s voices can be herd, sometimes asking for something, help, a name, food, shelter etc. A myling can be put at rest by giving it your name (You can have my name, it is ??) or by burying the remains in sacred ground. Another way is giving the myling the permission to take out revenge on its killer.
An old man is returning home one late night when a childs voice call out: “Grandpa, grandpa, can I feed?” the man tries to ignore the child but when it keeps repeating the question he eventually answers “If you have someone to feed you then feed, but I can’t feed you”. The child goes away and the man returns home to find his daughter dead (details spared). The myling could not find it’s mother until someone gave it permission to find her.



Mara (Equivalent to the old English “mare” used in nightmare) a shadow creature that feeds of fear and anxiety. Usually a woman. The mara could seep in trough the key-hole or cracks in the wall and sitting across a sleeping persons chest, giving them nightmares (usually involving featureless and earless faces). In some versions she step into her victims bed without first stepping into his/her shoes, making one way of fooling her putting ones shoes under the bed with the toes sticking out. Another way was putting the skin of a cow beside your bed with the hairs turned up. The Mara then had to count all the hairs, which she would not have time for in one night.
She also tormented the horses, and in the morning one would find the horse tired and foaming as if it been running all the night. Hanging up a dead magpie or a bird of prey in the roof would keep her away from the animals.
A woman could become a mara without even knowing it. Usually as an infant if a cat jumped over her as a baby or her mother crawled through the membrane of a horse fetus in order to have an easy pregnancy (also resulting in a werewolf if the child turns out to be a boy). The woman (or girl) is usually not aware of being a mara and only takes the shape of one in her sleep
A mara can be cured by being told, in the same moment as she transforms back, that she is a mara.


I'm running out of time but another advice:
Look up the artis John Bauer, he’s painted many pictures with folklore motives and is often referred to as one important influence as to the way many of us picture these fairytale creatures.

Johnathan_Harke
2014-08-14, 11:16 AM
I don't know if this will help, but I ran a campaign that was set in a Scandinavian-esque kingdom called Volfsten. The capital of Volfsten was Volfstengrad, a giant, fortress-like city overlooking the ocean that was built long ago by the dwarves. The city was abandoned by the dwarves during an Ice Age when the water levels rose, forcing them to flee to higher grounds (in other words, it explained why dwarves live in mountains and not on the plains). When the water levels receded, barbaric men from the south migrated north and settled Volfstengrad (that's where humans come in).

ANYWAY, the point is, I created a setting having absolutely no knowledge of Nordic myths. Sure, I had played Skyrim and I'm an Art History major, so I knew a little bit about Vikings and that kind of culture, but I had done no research by any means.

Basically, you can use the materials you've already been provided, just explain and introduce them in a way that seems much more "Nordic". For example, my setting had giant owls that roosted in mountaintop ruins that granted knowledge to those that could find their domain. There were hippogriffs that used the frozen coastal cliffs as a breeding grounds. There were halflings that lived in frozen marshes and in geyser basins on stilt-houses. I had NPCs murmur rumors about terrible Frost Worms that would appear seemingly out of nowhere as they used blizzards to conceal their approach. Winter wolves and dire bears were a common problem, and there were smaller, more primitive human villages that hunted them for their furs.

Heck, my campaign even involved time travel. The players had to travel back in time to retrieve a legendary sword that was the bane of the undead because an evil vampire was besieging Volfstengrad with his relentless undead legion. There were, complications, of course.

So, I guess my advice is to do normal D&D and use normal D&D stuff and call it what D&D calls it. Your players will know what a giant is, but if they have to keep asking "Wait, what are giants in your world called again?" they're going to eventually just wind up calling them giants.

Johnathan_Harke
2014-08-14, 11:17 AM
Also, if you want to use the map I was using, I made a pretty decent one. Like I said, I'm an art major, so I went kinda nuts.

LibraryOgre
2014-08-14, 12:37 PM
And I'd be remiss if I didn't mention Codex Nordica by Troll Lord Games

http://rpg.drivethrustuff.com/product/130675/Castles--Crusades-Codex-Nordica

GraaEminense
2014-08-14, 12:44 PM
If you need pictures for your bestiary: Theodor Kittelsen. (https://www.google.no/search?q=theodor+kittelsen&safe=off&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ei=WPXsU4ynPIfmyQOwpIHwAQ&sqi=2&ved=0CAYQ_AUoAQ&biw=1920&bih=969)

Jeff the Green
2014-08-16, 05:38 PM
That's absolutely hilarious, that map. Though I'm not sure where "people with manners" comes from. I'll have to look up what the situation was there.

As for a cultural bid: always remember that magic is for women and unmanly. Unless you're Odin. Or just a really good singer. Or know how to turn into an animal. Or can forge objects of wondrous power. Or...

In addition to what DMofDarkness said about seidr and galdr, note that the former was ergi (unmanly) even if you were Odin. If I recall correctly, there were a few myths about Loki taunting Odin about it, which may or may not have been hypocritical humor since although there are also myths about Loki giving birth to Sleipnir, Norse mythology is neither well-preserved nor monolithic. There is/was some speculation that seidr may have involved being a "passive" partner or being penetrated during sex, though it's not like manliness is never arbitrary elsewhere.

I like the division of elves into dokkalfar (possibly synonymous with svartalfar) and ljosalfar—literally dark and light elves—and the identification of the former with dwarves.

The stories forming the basis of the Ring of the Nibelung are also awesome, containing the dragon Famfrit, cursed treasure, a brother and sister cursed to incest and a hero born of them, and a tragic dwarf who ultimately dies because of his goldlust. In other words, half of Middle Earth.

endoperez
2014-08-16, 07:13 PM
If you just want to get a few visual ideas, there's the Valhalla comic books. There's a few sample pages of all the 10-or-so albums, so check them out here:

http://www.petermadsen.info/pages/vh/vh1/vh1-eng.html

Basic story goes like this: Thor and Loki are out, and stop at a peasants' house in the human realm. Hospitality being a big thing, they're fed. Loki being a trickster, the peasants' kids end up as the gods' servants. Then they have child-friendly adventures in Valhalla. Child-friendly European adventures, that is. There's occassionally more bare skin than US audience would deem acceptable.

Spacebatsy
2014-08-17, 02:50 AM
If you just want to get a few visual ideas, there's the Valhalla comic books. There's a few sample pages of all the 10-or-so albums, so check them out here:

http://www.petermadsen.info/pages/vh/vh1/vh1-eng.html

Basic story goes like this: Thor and Loki are out, and stop at a peasants' house in the human realm. Hospitality being a big thing, they're fed. Loki being a trickster, the peasants' kids end up as the gods' servants. Then they have child-friendly adventures in Valhalla. Child-friendly European adventures, that is. There's occassionally more bare skin than US audience would deem acceptable.

Childhood memories!
I believe there is an abridged version in English of one of them somewhere... here! (http://scans-daily.dreamwidth.org/132314.html)

As a curiosity: I remember that story standing out from the rest in the way it debated gender, probably one of the first works I read as a child that did.

LibraryOgre
2014-08-17, 11:34 AM
If you just want to get a few visual ideas, there's the Valhalla comic books. There's a few sample pages of all the 10-or-so albums, so check them out here:

http://www.petermadsen.info/pages/vh/vh1/vh1-eng.html

Basic story goes like this: Thor and Loki are out, and stop at a peasants' house in the human realm. Hospitality being a big thing, they're fed. Loki being a trickster, the peasants' kids end up as the gods' servants. Then they have child-friendly adventures in Valhalla. Child-friendly European adventures, that is. There's occassionally more bare skin than US audience would deem acceptable.

There's also the Northlanders comics by Brian Wood. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Northlanders)

Mongobear
2014-08-18, 10:35 AM
Thanks to all of you for the replies, I am pretty sure I have gotten a fair amount of information that will be helpful. It looks like I have a ton of research and reading to do to really get specifics out of the way, but that shouldnt take too long.


Also, since it is on the same general topic for this, I am trying to create a Homebrew race thats an alternative to Orc/Half Orc since they dont really exist in Norse Mythology. Can any of you give any input on the following idea and whether its balanced compared to the pre-existing races?

This version is representative of the more savage types of Trollkin or those of the Warrior caste in their society. I fully plan of creating a more suitable version for the Shapechanging/Trickster version but not sure where to start yet.


Trollkin (Name Subject to Change)

Medium Giant (Human)

+2 Str
+2 Con
-2 Int
-2 Wis

Rapid Healing: Due to their bloodlines being mixed with Trolls' blood, the Trollkin share a small portion of the increased Healing Rate of their ancestors. This functions similarly to Fast Healing, but a Trollkin only heals at a rate of 1 HP per hour.

Powerful Build: A Trollkin is treated as one size category larger than normal when doing so would be beneficial to them. As such they can wield larger weapons than usual, and are more resistant to Bull Rush and Trip attempts.

Level Adjustment: +1

LibraryOgre
2014-08-18, 11:45 AM
This version is representative of the more savage types of Trollkin or those of the Warrior caste in their society. I fully plan of creating a more suitable version for the Shapechanging/Trickster version but not sure where to start yet.


Trollkin (Name Subject to Change)

Medium Giant (Human)

+2 Str
+2 Con
-2 Int
-2 Wis

Rapid Healing: Due to their bloodlines being mixed with Trolls' blood, the Trollkin share a small portion of the increased Healing Rate of their ancestors. This functions similarly to Fast Healing, but a Trollkin only heals at a rate of 1 HP per hour.

Powerful Build: A Trollkin is treated as one size category larger than normal when doing so would be beneficial to them. As such they can wield larger weapons than usual, and are more resistant to Bull Rush and Trip attempts.

Level Adjustment: +1

The 2e supplement "Vikings" had a race called the Trollborn, which were dissimilar to these, but were based on the fact that trolls, despite being trolls, were often also quite intelligent and cunning; the 2e stats were +1 Strength and +1 Intelligence, with a penalty to Charisma.

In 3e terms, I'd probably reduce their Rapid Healing to "double natural healing"... partially because "natural healing" for 3e can get above 1 point per hour; for a 12th level character, a full 8 hours of sleep heals 12 points in 8 hours, without any medical attention, and 24 with a easy-to-pass-at-1st-level Heal check. Yes, the Fast Healing ability means they can do this whatever they do, but 1 point per hour isn't very much.

I'd be more inclined to hit their Charisma than their Wisdom. Wisdom can mean they have decent senses and resistance to spells that control their mind.

Spacebatsy
2014-08-18, 12:18 PM
The 2e supplement "Vikings" had a race called the Trollborn, which were dissimilar to these, but were based on the fact that trolls, despite being trolls, were often also quite intelligent and cunning; the 2e stats were +1 Strength and +1 Intelligence, with a penalty to Charisma.

In 3e terms, I'd probably reduce their Rapid Healing to "double natural healing"... partially because "natural healing" for 3e can get above 1 point per hour; for a 12th level character, a full 8 hours of sleep heals 12 points in 8 hours, without any medical attention, and 24 with a easy-to-pass-at-1st-level Heal check. Yes, the Fast Healing ability means they can do this whatever they do, but 1 point per hour isn't very much.

I'd be more inclined to hit their Charisma than their Wisdom. Wisdom can mean they have decent senses and resistance to spells that control their mind.

I agree with this.


This slightly varies depending where in Scandinavia the stories originates, but in the general folklore trolls are more often portrayed as cunning than strong. I can’t actually remember many stories where the troll’s strength have in been empathized. That is more of a giant thing.
They tend to have a lot of secret knowledge and magic on their side and their weaknesses tend to be jealousy and greed rather than stupidity. Although they have been known to be fooled by clever humans, but this is usually done by the human behaving very strange.

In one story a mother is exposing her child as a changeling by “making porridge in an eggshell while stirring with a pine-top” to which the child comments: “Seven oak forests I’ve seen grow and seven oak forests I’ve seen wither down, but never have I’ve seen such a big whisk in such a tiny pot!”
The mother knowing the child was not hers, but that of a troll, puts it in the oven and at once the mother troll appears, exchanges the children and states: “Such evil would I never do your child as you would have done to mine” (Although, as a side note, in many other stories the trolls tend to be unquestionably evil)


I’d say low on charisma as well, but rather choose high wisdom or intelligence over strength. Maybe a “Jotunkin” would be a more suiting alternative to the orc/half orc?



edit:
As a curiosity the word troll (being the same for trolls in both English and Swedish) is commonly used in the Swedish language (and also in several of the other Scandinavian languages) when relating to magic or people using it. For example:
Trollkarl (equivalent with wizard, literal translation troll-man)
Trolla (the act of making magic)
Trollkunning (to know magic, literally troll-knowledgeable)
Trollsk (enchanting, sort of translates to trollish)

This could give an idea of how closely trolls used to be associated with magic