How high can we get it?

[Vhaidara]

So, on a whim, I was calculating the most damage that can be done by a level 1 Player's Handbook only character.

So far, I have
Half Orc Barbarian 1 with a 20 Str (18 + 2 racial) wielding a scythe (crit is assumed) with Power Attack
Raging, you have a Strength of 24 (+7 mod).
So, on the x4 crit, you deal 8d4+48 (+40 Str +8 PA) = 80

Now, we obviously aren't a solo adventurer! We have 3 allies with us! Now, they each have time to buff you once (you dumped Dex to get your high Str score, so your initiative sucks).

What are the 3 best buffs for raw damage (remember, you use weighted dice, so you are guaranteed maximum damage and nat 20s

[Talar]

Does mighty wallop out of RotD have a range of personal or weapon touched? Cause that could add some damage. Enlarge Person from a friendly wizard buffs strength by 2. Can't think of a cleric buff, there's Divine Favor but that is personal only.

[Vhaidara]

Does mighty wallop out of RotD have a range of personal or weapon touched? Cause that could add some damage. Enlarge Person from a friendly wizard buffs strength by 2. Can't think of a cleric buff, there's Divine Favor but that is personal only.

2 things
1. Player's Handbook only
2. Scythe is important. I know Mighty Wallop is awesome, but I don't think it accounts for a multiplier.

[rweird]

Alright, this being an optimization question, what limitations on outside influence is there? Do the party members need to be level 1? Do the party members need to just use PHB?

[Vhaidara]

Alright, this being an optimization question, what limitations on outside influence is there? Do the party members need to be level 1? Do the party members need to just use PHB?

I'm going with yes for now, mostly because I want to see how much 1 idiot can screw up plots with a lucky crit.

For example, currently, this barbarian almost one shots a level 6 fighter with a 14 Con and max HP/HD, which sounds like an NPC designed to be a questgiver or a law enforcer.

[Zombulian]

Well there's always Enlarge Person and Magic Weapon. Plus a Bard singing.

[Flickerdart]

Let's try a different approach.

Human Fighter, 18 Strength. Feats: Mounted Combat, Ride-by Attack, Spirited Charge. He wields a Large Lance (because it can be wielded one-handed when mounted, it should be wieldable two-handed when bumped up by a size category). To-hit penalties? We don't care.

So we're looking at 2d6+6 from our intrepid charger. Multiplied by 3 for a critical hit, and then by 3 again for Spirited Charge, for a total D&D-esque multiplier of 5. That's 10d6+30, max 90.

What if we don't need Spirited Charge? Just put that barbarian on the horse and give him the lance. Standard attack is 2d6+10+2 for PA, times 2 on a charge, times 3 on a crit (total multiplier is 4) for a total of 8d6+48, max 96.

[Vhaidara]

Well there's always Enlarge Person and Magic Weapon. Plus a Bard singing.

Okay, so, with those 3 buffs

Str 26 (+8)
Scythe now deals 2d6
8d6 = 48 + (48 Str) + 8 (PA) + 4(IC) + 4 (MW) = 112

We officially have enough to instagib a 20th level 12 Con Wizard.

EDIT: Flicker, I'm assuming max damage

[Flickerdart]

EDIT: Flicker, I'm assuming max damage
Yeah, I caught that eventually. New solo number to beat is 96.

With Magic Weapon, bardsong, and Enlarge Person, we're looking at (3d6+9)*5, max 135, and (3d6+12+2)*4, max 128. Looks like the more mods we stack, the better the Fighter does.

[Talar]

2 things
1. Player's Handbook only
2. Scythe is important. I know Mighty Wallop is awesome, but I don't think it accounts for a multiplier.

My bad, the PHB requirement slipped my mind. And this is rather impressive. 112 damage from a first level character is pretty cool.

[Forrestfire]

I'm going to take a different approach, I think. Here's the build:

Race: Elf
Class: Cleric with the Healing and Magic domains.
Feats: Skill Focus (Profession [any])
Ability Scores: 18 in Wisdom

Every week, this elf gets half of his profession roll in GP, which is 27 because of our weighted dice, or 13gp and 5 sp. He can also sell spells. He's got CL 2 with healing spells, so he can sell a bunch of Cure Light Wounds and Cure Minor Wounds. These are worth 10gp and 5gp, respectively, because PC sell at half price. He has three first-level spells and three orisons per day.

Each week, he makes 188gp and 5 sp. We're gonna use d6s weighted to roll 1s for his starting age. At the start of his level 1 career, the elf cleric is 120 years old. Once he hits Old age in 143 years, he gets a bonus first-level spell from his Wis having gone to 20, adding another 70gp per week. His profession skill will also be adding another half a gold piece, bringing it to 14 per week. His max age is 750 years, at which point he's going to die within a year.

At that age, he's made (188.5*52*143) + (259*52*487) = 7,960,602 gold pieces.

He's going to spend these on castings of Explosive Runes, 150gp per pop. He's also going to buy a single scroll of Dispel Magic, which is buyable without the DMG because Scribe Scroll lists the base price calculations. That's 375 gold.

After the scroll, he can buy 53,068 explosive runes castings, taking great care to not read any of them. He puts them in a pile, then area dispels the lot of them.

We're still using loaded dice, so that's 36 damage per rune, or 1,910,448 points of no-save force damage to whatever poor soul is standing next to them. Maybe the elf cleric is going out with a bang, since he's reached his maximum age.

In any case, there is likely now a crater wherever whatever he used it on was standing.

If we want to bring the entire party into it, then we can grab three more elves, each of whom would take all the profits gotten from the Elf Cleric and run them through the Craft Skill to triple their value. Make sure they're crafting commodities so they can sell at full gold price. This'll multiply the amount of gold we have to spend by 27, giving us 1,432,905 castings of Explosive Runes, for 51,584,580 points of damage, thoroughly obliterating both their chosen target and the spirit of the challenge.

[Flickerdart]

If you're going to stoop to purchasing spells, you might as well just hire workers to craft for you.

Meanwhile, Mr. Fighter can invest his skill points into Handle Animal and Craft (Weaponsmithing) and make his equipment from scratch.

[Jormengand]

I'm going to take a different approach, I think. Here's the build:

Race: Elf
Class: Cleric with the Healing and Magic domains.
Feats: Skill Focus (Profession [any])
Ability Scores: 18 in Wisdom

Every week, this elf gets half of his profession roll in GP, which is 27 because of our weighted dice, or 13gp and 5 sp. He can also sell spells. He's got CL 2 with healing spells, so he can sell a bunch of Cure Light Wounds and Cure Minor Wounds. These are worth 10gp and 5gp, respectively, because PC sell at half price. He has three first-level spells and three orisons per day.

Each week, he makes 188gp and 5 sp. We're gonna use d6s weighted to roll 1s for his starting age. At the start of his level 1 career, the elf cleric is 120 years old. Once he hits Old age in 143 years, he gets a bonus first-level spell from his Wis having gone to 20, adding another 70gp per week. His profession skill will also be adding another half a gold piece, bringing it to 14 per week. His max age is 750 years, at which point he's going to die within a year.

At that age, he's made (188.5*52*143) + (259*52*487) = 7,960,602 gold pieces.

He's going to spend these on castings of Explosive Runes, 150gp per pop. He's also going to buy a single scroll of Dispel Magic, which is buyable without the DMG because Scribe Scroll lists the base price calculations. That's 375 gold.

After the scroll, he can buy 53,068 explosive runes castings, taking great care to not read any of them. He puts them in a pile, then area dispels the lot of them.

We're still using loaded dice, so that's 36 damage per rune, or 1,910,448 points of no-save force damage to whatever poor soul is standing next to them. Maybe the elf cleric is going out with a bang, since he's reached his maximum age.

In any case, there is likely now a crater wherever whatever he used it on was standing.

If we want to bring the entire party into it, then we can grab three more elves, each of whom would take all the profits gotten from the Elf Cleric and run them through the Craft Skill to triple their value. Make sure they're crafting commodities so they can sell at full gold price. This'll multiply the amount of gold we have to spend by 27, giving us 1,432,905 castings of Explosive Runes, for 51,584,580 points of damage, thoroughly obliterating both their chosen target and the spirit of the challenge.

Wishing for more wishes, efficient quiver, the Quick Draw feat, and a metric boopton of Staves of Rapid Barrage will allow you to go far, far better than that.

[Forrestfire]

Those aren't in the PHB though, sadly.

[Brookshw]

Wishing for more wishes, efficient quiver, the Quick Draw feat, and a metric boopton of Staves of Rapid Barrage will allow you to go far, far better than that.

Do you really need better once damage can be expressed in scientific notation? :smallbiggrin:

[Jormengand]

Those aren't in the PHB though, sadly.

Oh, that's true. Well, all the core spells and non-epic items are in the PHB, right? So I'm sure there's something better than explosive runes'ing you can do.

You never specified damage to what, after all, so how about dropping things on people?

Or, of course, we can set the world on fire. (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=17860047&postcount=118)

[Forrestfire]

Actually, I think it's just scrolls, wands, and potions of PHB spells that can be gotten here. The rules for custom staves are in the DMG, and the rest of the items are specific items, also in the DMG.

[torrasque666]

If I remember correctly, aren't magic items(and rules governing their creation) in the DMG, not the PHB? And thus, wouldn't they be invalid for this thought exercise?

[Forrestfire]

The feats for Potions, Scrolls, and Wands list market prices for the items you make. If that doesn't work, then you'd have to hire a spellcaster to dispel them, which is less fun (I picked Explosive Runes because the spell creates a magic item that can then be detonated, rather than having someone follow and do the damage for you).

[Jormengand]

If I remember correctly, aren't magic items(and rules governing their creation) in the DMG, not the PHB? And thus, wouldn't they be invalid for this thought exercise?

See, I was thinking core when I read PHB because I've never heard of someone banning the DMG unless they're doing a specific "Banning core" game.

[Hazrond]

Wishing for more wishes, efficient quiver, the Quick Draw feat, and a metric boopton of Staves of Rapid Barrage will allow you to go far, far better than that.

I see someone else around here also reads Erfworld :smallbiggrin:

[Forrestfire]

Well, it was hosted on this site for a while :smalltongue:

[Jormengand]

I see someone else around here also reads Erfworld :smallbiggrin:

Not, of course, to be confused with an imperial booptonne. :smalltongue:

[Feint's End]

Okay, so, with those 3 buffs

Str 26 (+8)
Scythe now deals 2d6
8d6 = 48 + (48 Str) + 8 (PA) + 4(IC) + 4 (MW) = 112

We officially have enough to instagib a 20th level 12 Con Wizard.

EDIT: Flicker, I'm assuming max damage

As Flickerdart has mentioned. A two handed lance wielding Barbarian riding a mount and charging does more damage. Also for an honest calculation you'd have to calculate the overall average damage (only 5% chance for the crit) which puts the lance even further ahead since you always sit at the double damage at least.

edit:

Lets do this properly.

Party members: Bard, Druid, Wizard
Class/Race: Barbarian/Human
Feats: Mounted Combat, Power Attack
Weapon wielded: Large Lance (two handed) for 2d6 dmg
base str: 18 (22 with rage -> 24 with enlarge person)

buffs:
Bard: song
Druid: mainly for the animal companion as a fast flanking buddy
Wizard: magic weapon and Enlarge Person (for mount and Barbarian)

with all buffs (charging, power attack, bardic music, flanking companion, magic weapon and enlarge person we are at):
Large (huge) Lance +12 (3d6+14)x2 ....... average of 49 on a regular attack (max: 64) // opposed to scythe (+13 to-hit) average 2d6+16 for 23 average or 28 max
crit average: 98 // scythe 92
crit maximum: 128 // scythe 112

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

First level commoner, race irrelevant, ability scores irrelevant, drop a rock from high enough and it deals 20d6 damage (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/environment.htm#fallingObjects). That's up to 120 damage to a single target.

The fat jumper build was a Half-Orc Cleric 1 with the Strength domain, who used Enlarge Person to grow large size and made a jump check to jump up 10 ft. and land on up to four opponents, dealing 20d6 damage to each of them, for up to 480 damage.

[Zombulian]

Why Cleric over any other casting class?

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

Why Cleric over any other casting class?

I think it had something to do with buffing his jump check. All you really need is to make sure your character plus his carried gear weighs 500+ pounds, so Enlarge Person makes him weigh two tons so a 10 ft. drop deals 20d6 damage. A Psychic Warrior 1 with Expansion and Up The Walls can also do it, but in core only you need to jump.

[Vhaidara]

For everyone mentioning averages, I would like to point out that this thread has nothing to do with making a viable build. I started doing the math when I was developing arguments for nerfing crits at low levels, since they are such a wildcard. Hence why I'm trying to figure out how big of a beasty a lucky supercrit can drop at level 1, Player's Handbook only.

[Zombulian]

I think it had something to do with buffing his jump check. All you really need is to make sure your character plus his carried gear weighs 500+ pounds, so Enlarge Person makes him weigh two tons so a 10 ft. drop deals 20d6 damage. A Psychic Warrior 1 with Expansion and Up The Walls can also do it, but in core only you need to jump.

Well I don't know about other options, but the spell Jump isn't available to Clerics...

[Feint's End]

For everyone mentioning averages, I would like to point out that this thread has nothing to do with making a viable build. I started doing the math when I was developing arguments for nerfing crits at low levels, since they are such a wildcard. Hence why I'm trying to figure out how big of a beasty a lucky supercrit can drop at level 1, Player's Handbook only.

well then I have done the math. 128 with a lance is the answer. For the highest damage look at Biffonacius_Furio's Post.
I think I covered everything.

edit: if you pool the wpl of your characters you could buy a potion of Bull's Strength for 136 highest damage. Add Divine Favour for even higher boni.

[Extra Anchovies]

*snip snip snip* He's going to spend these on castings of Explosive Runes, 150gp per pop. He's also going to buy a single scroll of Dispel Magic, which is buyable without the DMG because Scribe Scroll lists the base price calculations. That's 375 gold.

After the scroll, he can buy 53,068 explosive runes castings, taking great care to not read any of them. He puts them in a pile, then area dispels the lot of them.

This is the point at which it stops being the 1st-level character dealing the damage. Explosive Runes does not create a magic item; it is a spell effect cast on an object, with a duration of permanent. Thus, even if the spell is purchased by the 1st-level elf, it is still a spell that has been cast by the person paid by our 1st-level character to cast the spell (I'll call the Explosive Runes caster the "supplier"). Thus, the supplier can read the runes without harm, can remove the runes whenever desired, and automatically succeeds on dispel checks to dispel the runes. The 1st-level character is doubtless the person whose actions led to the damage being dealt, but the damage is dealt not by them but by the supplier (with their Explosive Runes spells as a means of conveyance, much in the same way that Keledrath's initial barbarian deals their 80 damage with the scythe as a means of conveyance). The 1st-level character would share in the experience point gain(s) if any enemies are defeated by the runes' damage (a likely occurrence indeed :smallbiggrin: ), but they did not deal the damage themselves.

In a similar vein, Biffoniacus_Furiou's rock-pushing commoner would gain experience for the resulting damage, but the damage is not dealt by the commoner but by the rock. If the commoner had thrown the boulder then the damage would have been dealt by the commoner (with the rock as a means of conveyance), but in his stated scenario the commoner does not strike the unnamed enemy with the rock; instead, he causes the rock to fall, and the 20d6 damage is dealt by the rock itself. Similarly, pushing someone off a cliff does not deal any damage in itself, but causes them to (very shortly after) take damage from the fall. In cases such as the Explosive Runes or rock-pushing, the cause of the damage is not the source of the damage, whereas in the barbarian's case, they are one and the same (the scythe is only a means of conveyance).

ETA: sorry if someone else already explained this, I'm bad at reading.

[Forrestfire]

I did point out that my way of doing it was thoroughly violating the spirit of the challenge. It's silly, really just abusing the D&D economy. (I think you could probably get more damage by dropping coins on them from high up, too, with that much gold).

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

Well I don't know about other options, but the spell Jump isn't available to Clerics...

I think it used movement speed bonuses, probably the Celerity domain for +10 ft. untyped and Expeditious Retreat, for a +16 to Jump checks, but that's not PHB-only. The original was on the old WotC charop board and is lost to the ages.

Regardless, Enlarge Person + jumping down onto as many as four opponents still deals 20d6x4 damage, possibly also damaging yourself depending on how far you fall. If you consider more than four creatures squeezing/grappling into a space, then the potential damage is almost unlimited.

[Tvtyrant]

Orc spirit lion totem whirling barbarian with medium Minotaur greathammer.sup Two hits a round, 2d6 + 9(raging two hander)+1. Multiply by 4 and max damage for 84. 168 for both hits.

[Flickerdart]

Orc spirit lion totem whirling barbarian with medium Minotaur greathammer.sup Two hits a round, 2d6 + 9(raging two hander)+1. Multiply by 4 and max damage for 84. 168 for both hits.
"Barbarian" is the only part of that entire sentence that's from the PHB.

[Tvtyrant]

"Barbarian" is the only part of that entire sentence that's from the PHB.

...:smallredface:

This will teach me.

[Jormengand]

I still prefer crafting infinite colossal quarterstaves and setting the world on fire. :smalltongue:

[Vhaidara]

I still prefer crafting infinite colossal quarterstaves and setting the world on fire. :smalltongue:

QUARTERSTAFF-DOKEN!letmeuseallcaps

[Zrak]

Do you really need better once damage can be expressed in scientific notation? :smallbiggrin:

They make up arrow notation for a reason, damn it. :smalltongue:

[troqdor1316]

If we're assuming weighted dice, my build is a halfling commoner with 18 Dex, a Small kitchen knife (statted as a small dagger) and improved initiative, for a total Initiative modifier of +8. Here's combat:

A Wild Terrasques Appears!

Player sends out Halfling Commoner!

Tarrasque rolls 27 for initiative!

Halfling Commoner rolls 28!

Halfling Commoner uses Stab in Shins!

Halfling Commoner rolls a natural 20!

Halfling Commoner rolls a natural 20 to confirm!

Halfling Commoner rolls a natural 20 to confirm the confirmation!

The Tarrasque EXPLODEZZZZZ!

PREEMPTIVE EDIT: Sadly, I just re-read the DMG and realized that this requires a variant rule to work. I thought the variant rule was a sidebar and therefore RAW

[Crazysaneman]

So, on a whim, I was calculating the most damage that can be done by a level 1 Player's Handbook only character.

So far, I have
Half Orc Barbarian 1 with a 20 Str (18 + 2 racial) wielding a scythe (crit is assumed) with Power Attack
Raging, you have a Strength of 24 (+7 mod).
So, on the x4 crit, you deal 8d4+48 (+40 Str +8 PA) = 80

Now, we obviously aren't a solo adventurer! We have 3 allies with us! Now, they each have time to buff you once (you dumped Dex to get your high Str score, so your initiative sucks).

What are the 3 best buffs for raw damage (remember, you use weighted dice, so you are guaranteed maximum damage and nat 20s
*edited out scythes and edited in large greataxes
So Half-orc barbarian
assume 15 dex and 18 str +2 half orc=20+4 rage 24 +7 mod
feat=two weapon fighting
hand1 LARGE GREATAXE hand2 LARGE GREATAXE (because we don't care about negatives to hit.)
weapon damage on crit 9d6
strength damage on crit 28
9d6+28=82*2weapons=164
or is my math wrong?

[Feint's End]

*scrubbed

look at next post for correct calculation

[Feint's End]

Two-weapon fighting with Dwarven Waraxes wins. Second and third place go to Scythe and Lance respectively.

Teammates:
Druid: For fast flanking buddy
Wizard: For magic weapon and enlarge person
Bard: Inspire Courage

Build:
Race: Half-Orc
Relevant Stats: Str 20 (24 while raging; 26 with enlarge person)
Feat: Power Attack (Two Weaponfighting or Proficiency would of course be better but we don't care for penalties)
Weapon: 2x Dwarven Waraxes

To-hit after applicance of all buffs:
8(str)-1(size)+1(bab)-1(pa)+1(magic weapon)+1(Inspire Courage)+2(flanking buddy)-4(non-proficient)-6/10 (twf) = +1/-3

crit maximum=147 mainhand (16+8+2+1)x3=81; offhand (16+4+2)x3=66

2nd place: Scythe with 112 maximum damage
3rd place: Lance with 104 maximum damage

[Chronos]

Despite the common misconception, the rules do not say that you can make quarterstaves from thin air. The rules say that you can make quarterstaves from 0 GP worth of raw materials. In other words, you find a worthless stick, say "Hey, that's a weapon!", and it's now a worthless quarterstaff. But you still need to start with the stick.

[torrasque666]

Well first you need to invent the universe.

[Jormengand]

Despite the common misconception, the rules do not say that you can make quarterstaves from thin air. The rules say that you can make quarterstaves from 0 GP worth of raw materials.

Thin air is 0 GP worth of raw materials. What you actually have to do when crafting is just:


Pay one-third of the item’s price for the cost of raw materials.

Okay, I pay 0 GP. Rules as written, I can also turn a handful of silver into a dagger, but it's just not quite as on-the-spot as making a quarterstaff.

[Flickerdart]

*edited out scythes and edited in large greataxes
So Half-orc barbarian
assume 15 dex and 18 str +2 half orc=20+4 rage 24 +7 mod
feat=two weapon fighting
hand1 LARGE GREATAXE hand2 LARGE GREATAXE (because we don't care about negatives to hit.)
weapon damage on crit 9d6
strength damage on crit 28
9d6+28=82*2weapons=164
or is my math wrong?
Can't wield a Large Greataxe as a medium character because it would be more handedness than two. Especially not one in each hand. The reason you can use a Large Lance when a Lance is a Two-Handed weapon is that a mounted character can wield a Lance (and only a Lance) one-handed, so when it goes up a handedness level from being a bigger size, he can still wield it with two.

[Forrestfire]

Doesn't that mean you could up the lance's size all the way to Colossal and dual-wield them, not caring about penalties because a 20 is an autohit?

[Flickerdart]

Doesn't that mean you could up the lance's size all the way to Colossal and dual-wield them, not caring about penalties because a 20 is an autohit?
I'd say that the rule interaction between special lance handedness and resizing doesn't work that way - if you size it up twice, a weapon that could be wielded in one hand would need three hands to wield, making it unusable.

[Allanimal]

After the scroll, he can buy 53,068 explosive runes castings, taking great care to not read any of them. He puts them in a pile, then area dispels the lot of them.

We're still using loaded dice, so that's 36 damage per rune, or 1,910,448 points of no-save force damage to whatever poor soul is standing next to them. Maybe the elf cleric is going out with a bang, since he's reached his maximum age.



I see this mentioned a lot around here, but I fail to see how the damage of multiple explosive runes stack.

[Forrestfire]

I see this mentioned a lot around here, but I fail to see how the damage of multiple explosive runes stack.

They stack the same way any other sources of multiple damage stack...? If you detonate two fireballs next to someone, they take the damage from both fireballs. :smallconfused:

[Crazysaneman]

Can't wield a Large Greataxe as a medium character because it would be more handedness than two. Especially not one in each hand. The reason you can use a Large Lance when a Lance is a Two-Handed weapon is that a mounted character can wield a Lance (and only a Lance) one-handed, so when it goes up a handedness level from being a bigger size, he can still wield it with two.

Baloney, it's just a -2 to wield one size greater than you two handed, -2 for one handed, -2 for two weapon fighting.

*found the rule
"Inappropriately sized weapons A creature can't make optimum use of a weapon that isn't properly sized for it. A cumulative -2 penalty on attack rolls for each size category of difference between the size of the intended wielder and the size of it's actual wielder." PHB 3.5 ~pg113

[dascarletm]

"The runes detonate when read, dealing 6d6 points of force damage"

Read
->detonate
Read
->detonate
...

not

Read
-> detonate, detonate, detonate, detonate, detonate, detonate, detonate, detonate...

they do not explode when they are destroyed or when another rune goes off near it.

[Forrestfire]

... Which is why I specifically noted they'd be detonated with a Dispel Magic. A failed area dispel would trigger them all simultaneously.

[Vhaidara]

Baloney, it's just a -2 to wield one size greater than you two handed, -2 for one handed, -2 for two weapon fighting.

With the Monkey Grip feat, yes.

[Crazysaneman]

With the Monkey Grip feat, yes.
not so much

[dascarletm]

So you did....

So you did.:smallredface:

[Vhaidara]

not so much

and explain please? Given that the function of the feat Monkey Grip is that you can use a weapon one size category larger than you with a -2 penalty, I fail to see what point you are making.

[Crazysaneman]

and explain please? Given that the function of the feat Monkey Grip is that you can use a weapon one size category larger than you with a -2 penalty, I fail to see what point you are making.
It seems you cannot read. I clearly stated that there was a -2 for large weapon, -2 for one handed, -2 for twf. Monkey Grip removes the -2 for wielding a two handed weapon one handed, making a large 2 handed weapon in one hand a -2 instead of a -4. For this toon it would be -6 because of twf.

[Crazysaneman]

Theoretically this barbarian could wield colossal greataxes for maximum damage since we autohit and autocrit. I kept it to large for the sake of size argument and weight restrictions.

[Vhaidara]

It seems you cannot read. I clearly stated that there was a -2 for large weapon, -2 for one handed, -2 for twf. Monkey Grip removes the -2 for wielding a two handed weapon one handed, making a large 2 handed weapon in one hand a -2 instead of a -4. For this toon it would be -6 because of twf.

Really now? Because looking at Monkey Grip


For instance, a Large longsword (a one-handed weapon for a Large creature) is considered a two-handed weapon for a Medium creature that does not have this feat. For a Medium creature that has this feat, it is still considered a one-handed weapon.

This mean that you can use a Large One handed weapon one handed.

And from Monkey Grip's "Normal" section


You can use a melee weapon one size category larger than you are with a -2 penalty on the attack roll, and the amount of effort it takes to use the weapon increases. A larger light weapon is considered a one-handed weapon, a larger one-handed weapon is considered a two-handed weapon, and you cannot use a larger two-handed weapon at all.

[Crazysaneman]

you cannot use a larger two-handed weapon at all.
From a sourcebook outside of the PHB. We are using PHB only.
From the PHB:

Inappropriately Sized WeaponsA creature can’t make optimum use of a weapon that isn’t properly sized for it. A cumulative -2 penalty applies on attack rolls (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/combat/combatStatistics.htm#attackRoll) for each size category of difference between the size of its intended wielder and the size of its actual wielder. If the creature isn’t proficient (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/combat/combatModifiers.htm#weaponArmorAndShieldProficienc y) with the weapon a -4 nonproficiency penalty also applies.
The measure of how much effort it takes to use a weapon (whether the weapon is designated as a light, one-handed, or two-handed weapon for a particular wielder) is altered by one step for each size category of difference between the wielder’s size and the size of the creature for which the weapon was designed. If a weapon’s designation would be changed to something other than light, one-handed, or two-handed by this alteration, the creature can’t wield the weapon at all.

[Vhaidara]

Read the second part of that


A creature can’t make optimum use of a weapon that isn’t properly sized for it. A cumulative -2 penalty applies on attack rolls for each size category of difference between the size of its intended wielder and the size of its actual wielder. If the creature isn’t proficient with the weapon a -4 nonproficiency penalty also applies.
The measure of how much effort it takes to use a weapon (whether the weapon is designated as a light, one-handed, or two-handed weapon for a particular wielder) is altered by one step for each size category of difference between the wielder’s size and the size of the creature for which the weapon was designed. If a weapon’s designation would be changed to something other than light, one-handed, or two-handed by this alteration, the creature can’t wield the weapon at all.

So, for a medium creature, a Large Longsword is a two handed weapon, and you cannot wield a large greataxe.

[Jormengand]

So, for a medium creature, a Large Longsword is a two handed weapon, and you cannot wield a large greataxe.

Though I'm now wondering what happens if you have more than 2 hands...

Yes, that was a joke. Yes, it is obvious from the rules. Shh.

[Crazysaneman]

Touche. I misread it.

[Feint's End]

So, for a medium creature, a Large Longsword is a two handed weapon, and you cannot wield a large greataxe.

*scrubbed

fixed calculations again. Two Dwarven Waraxes clearly win. Should be correct now

[Vhaidara]

*scrubbed

only now read the second part appropriately. Then two handing a large lance clearly wins.

fixed my calculation on the second page. I think I remembered all modifiers.

Oh, I'm not objecting to the lance, I was objecting to the people saying that you could go up to a Colossal greataxe by taking like -8 to hit.

Also, even if you could, Scythe would still beat that. And the Lance manages to beat that, with one problem.

Is there a Huge size mount that can be afforded at level one?

[Flickerdart]

Is there a Huge size mount that can be afforded at level one?
Why do you need a Huge mount? Medium rider = Large mount, just get a horse.

[Vhaidara]

Why do you need a Huge mount? Medium rider = Large mount, just get a horse.

To allow the addition of Enlarge Person. Which is always a fantastic buff up.

[Allanimal]

They stack the same way any other sources of multiple damage stack...? If you detonate two fireballs next to someone, they take the damage from both fireballs. :smallconfused:

I agree about the fireballs - there is a specific example of it under combining spell effects of two instantaneous spells. Explosive Runes doesn't qualify because its duration is not instantaneous.
The explosion may be, but the spell description doesn't say that it is.

I can see that argument, but I can also see the argument of "same effect more than once of different strengths". with that many explosive runes going off it would pretty much guarantee max damage of a single explosive runes spell, rather than average damage from a bajillion spells.

Unless there is a clarification somewhere that I don't know about...

[Fates]

Do you really need better once damage can be expressed in scientific notation? :smallbiggrin:

My kobold commoner can do 1 x 10^0 damage.

[Forrestfire]

I agree about the fireballs - there is a specific example of it under combining spell effects of two instantaneous spells. Explosive Runes doesn't qualify because its duration is not instantaneous.
The explosion may be, but the spell description doesn't say that it is.

I can see that argument, but I can also see the argument of "same effect more than once of different strengths". with that many explosive runes going off it would pretty much guarantee max damage of a single explosive runes spell, rather than average damage from a bajillion spells.

Unless there is a clarification somewhere that I don't know about...

And what happens if someone reads an explosive runes spell, then reads another one in the next round? Since the same effect happened more than once at different strengths, does the second one suppress the damage of the first one? I don't think it would. The spell is discharged once it goes off, and no longer in effect. Damage is damage.

Out of curiosity, how would you rule someone firing a pair of Lingering Spell Fireballs at someone, then? The duration is no longer instantaneous, as the spell stays in effect for an entire round and can even be dispelled. Surely, that means that someone would be able to stand in one and tank the other one without caring, because it's the same effect, and can only be applied once, right?

[Allanimal]

And what happens if someone reads an explosive runes spell, then reads another one in the next round? Since the same effect happened more than once at different strengths, does the second one suppress the damage of the first one? I don't think it would. The spell is discharged once it goes off, and no longer in effect. Damage is damage.

No, both would apply, as the effects are not simultaneous. The combined spell effects rules do not apply. Once the first one goes off, that explosive runes spell is discharged and there is no longer an ongoing spell effect to combine with the second one. There is no overlap.


Out of curiosity, how would you rule someone firing a pair of Lingering Spell Fireballs at someone, then? The duration is no longer instantaneous, as the spell stays in effect for an entire round and can even be dispelled. Surely, that means that someone would be able to stand in one and tank the other one without caring, because it's the same effect, and can only be applied once, right?

Lingering Spell from Champions of Ruin? I don't have that book so can't look up the exact wording, but if what I googled is accurate, I don't see that the Metamagic changes the duration of the spell. The combining rules for instantaneous spells still apply. The lingering extra damage can be dispelled, explicitly stated in the feat description, but it is still an instantaneous duration spell. Another case of the writers not knowing the rules well or not considering the possibilities...

I maintain that it is a grey area - the rules don't exactly cover what happens in the multiple simultaneous explosive runes situation and requires a DM call.

[Feint's End]

To allow the addition of Enlarge Person. Which is always a fantastic buff up.

Fair point. Enlarge Person does indeed only work on humanoid creatures. No idea why I thought otherwise.

Need to fix the calculations of the previous page. Scythe deals more damage than a mounted charger (112 to 104) but Dwarven Waraxes win overall. (147 to 112 to 104)

[rweird]

Someone else proposed dropping objects for 20d6, however someone else mentioned how the character isn't really relevant in it. I believe dropping stuff still is best, but weight matters.

level 1 Half-orc barbarian
Str: 20
Rest: Doesn't matter

Party: Wizard, casts Enlarge Person.

Barbarian rages, total strength is 26, and is large sized, that is a 920 pound heavy load * 2 from being large, or 1840, however, he can push a rock off a ledge onto someone, meaning push/drag (*5, so 9200 pounds) is his maximum. Falling objects do 1d6/200 lb of weight + damage from falling distance. If the 9200 lb rock is pushed off a 400 ft cliff (for 20d6 from falling, and 46d6 from weight), it would hit for 66d6 damage. 66*6 (weighted dice) is 396 damage when it strikes the unfortunate victim.

Then again, if this orc has Quick Draw, and 1840 daggers (each of which weighs 1 lb), dropping them all in 1 round from 1400 ft up would deal 20d6/dagger, or 36800d6, so a maximum of 220800 damage to whoever stands beneath my dagger dropping half orc.

[AvatarVecna]

Okay, so, with those 3 buffs

Str 26 (+8)
Scythe now deals 2d6
8d6 = 48 + (48 Str) + 8 (PA) + 4(IC) + 4 (MW) = 112

We officially have enough to hypothetically instagib a 20th level 12 Con Wizard who isn't doing anything to fight back.

EDIT: Flicker, I'm assuming max damage

Fixed that for you.

[Vhaidara]

Fixed that for you.

Of course it is hypothetical. Otherwise I would have said that we instagibbed his Astral Projection. And I would have said "Sorcerer who dumped Int".

[Coidzor]

If we want to bring the entire party into it, then we can grab three more elves, each of whom would take all the profits gotten from the Elf Cleric and run them through the Craft Skill to triple their value. Make sure they're crafting commodities so they can sell at full gold price.

There are commodities you can craft? :smallconfused: