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Keledrath
2014-08-11, 05:27 PM
So, I got this idea to make Warforged into a template. It uses the same application rules as Dragonborn from Races of Dragon (Lose basically everything but size and racial ability mods). They shall hence be known as Forgeborn (thank you unseenmage)

I also wanted to introduce some variation to the Forgeborn, as well as integrate them with Tome of Battle, which I feel they were made for.

And it is an "inherited" template, meaning that you cannot acquire it after creation (barring exceptions such as Renegade Mastermaker). It can be applied to any creature with a skeletal structure. Additionally, all natural attacks and natural movement modes are maintained. This is an exception to the rules for Dragonborn that are otherwise used.

Special Rule: If the base creature is an unmodified (no templates, no subraces) Players Handbook Human (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/races.htm#humans) (also works for PF), then the LA for all templates is reduced to +0

Warforged Template
Ability Scores: +2 Str, -2 Wis
Other traits: All listed on Eberron Campaign Setting page 23
Bonus Feat: You may choose a bonus Warforged or Combat feat at first level
Forged in War: Your Initiator Level is treated as one higher (May not exceed your ECL)
LA: +1

Scoutforged Template
Ability Scores: +2 Dex, -2 Str
Speed: Same as Base Creature +10ft to base land speed
Other traits: All listed on Eberron Campaign Setting page 23
Bonus Feat: You may choose a bonus Warforged or Combat feat at first level
LA: +1

Psiforged Template
Ability Scores: +2 Int, -2 Dex
Other traits: All listed on Eberron Campaign Setting page 23
Bonus Feat: You may choose a bonus Warforged or Psionic feat at first level
Psiforged: +2 power points, psionic subtype, etc
LA: +1

Soulforged Template
Ability Scores: +2 Con, -2 Wis
Other traits: All listed on Eberron Campaign Setting page 23
Bonus Feat: You may choose a bonus Warforged or Akashic/Incarnum feat at first level
Essentia Pool: You gain 1 essence/essentia
LA: +1

Scrollforged Template
Ability Scores: +2 Int, -2 Con, -2 Str
Other traits: All listed on Eberron Campaign Setting page 23
Bonus Feat: You may choose a bonus Warforged feat at first level
Scroll Affinity: Whenever a Scrollforged casts a spell from a scroll, they may make a Spellcraft check (DC 20 + 4 * Spell Level). If they succeed, the scroll is not consumed. This ability may be used a number of times per day equal to your Intelligence modifier, and no more than once per scroll per day. Additionally, if the spell has an expensive material component or an XP component, you must pay that cost. The highest level scroll you can use this with is determined by your Int Modifier (equal).
LA: +1

Woeforged Template
Ability Scores: +2 Cha, -2 Con
Other traits: All listed on Eberron Campaign Setting page 23
Bonus Feat: You receive Tomb Tainted Soul as a bonus feat at level 1
Negative Energy Affinity: Whenever you create undead, treat your Caster Level as 2 higher for the purposes of how many undead you can control
LA: +1

Wildforged Template
Ability Scores: +2 Wis, -2 Int
Other traits: All listed on Eberron Campaign Setting page 23
Bonus Feat: You receive the Darkwood Body feat as a bonus feat at level 1
LA: +1

Wildforged Urban Druid Racial Substitution levels
1: Effigy Companion: Your Urban companion receives the effigy template
4: Replace Disease Immunity, can be treated as a plant whenever beneficial for the purposes of spells
5: Construct Wild Shape: You may also use Urban wildshape to transform into a construct, including an effigy of any creature you could normally turn into

NOTE TO GMS: I made the template +1 LA to prevent abuse. In many cases, I feel it does not deserve the LA. Most PHB races, human in particular, end up only having these racial traits, which are about on par with standard warforged. This is why I implemented the rule for removing the LA.

Ralcos
2014-08-12, 04:19 PM
Now this is a cool idea, and I would like to use this in a future game/character.

Also, for the arcane version of the Warforged, you could call them "Runeforged". :smallcool::smallbiggrin:

Keledrath
2014-08-12, 04:24 PM
I was considering a Scrollforged or a Runeforged that would boost CL (cap at HD), but wasn't sure if it was a good idea

:smalltongue:

Great minds think alike.

What do you think of the idea of the Arcane version having +1 CL (caps at HD)? Basically, 1/4 of Practiced Spellcaster.

Ralcos
2014-08-12, 04:58 PM
It's alright for the +1 LA that they have overall.

Mehangel
2014-08-12, 09:47 PM
What about Wildforged, or Wildgrown for Nature (Druid/Spirit Shaman/Ranger) Types... Perhaps a +1 CL on any spell in the Druids Spell-list. As for Ability Score modifiers, maybe +2 WIS, -2 CHA or DEX.

Theosforged for Divine (Cleric/Favored Soul/Paladin) Types... I am thinking +1 CL on any spell in the Cleric Spell-list. And as for Ability Score modifiers, maybe a +2 CHA or WIS, -2 INT.

Keledrath
2014-08-12, 09:54 PM
What about Wildforged, or Wildgrown for Nature (Druid/Spirit Shaman/Ranger) Types... Perhaps a +1 CL on any spell in the Druids Spell-list. As for Ability Score modifiers, maybe +2 WIS, -2 CHA or DEX.

Theosforged for Divine (Cleric/Favored Soul/Paladin) Types... I am thinking +1 CL on any spell in the Cleric Spell-list. And as for Ability Score modifiers, maybe a +2 CHA or WIS, -2 INT.

Actually, I'm thinking the Cleric/Wizard ones would be Spellforged (+2 Int or Wis, -2 Str, -2 Dex, +1 CL cap at HD)

For the Wildforged, I was actually thinking about designing Warforged Druid racial subs that switch them over to constructs (Construct Empathy that works on mindless, Construct Wild Shape, altered spell list).

Keledrath
2014-08-16, 12:36 AM
Alright, I added Scrollforged (with their own little twist) and Wildforged, along with a Wildforged Racial substitution level set (missing level 4) for the Urban Druid (http://dndtools.eu/classes/urban-druid/) class from Dragon Compendium.

Thoughts? Especially on the Scrollforged, did I make the DC high enough to be interesting without being downright broken?

TiaC
2014-08-16, 03:24 AM
You might want to make sure that they can't avoid XP and GP costs this way. Currently I could pull off all-day miracles at ECL 10.
+8 Int
+12 Ranks
+2 synergy
+2 MW tool
+5 Tome of Ancient Lore
+4 Mage's Spectacles
+7 CL 20 scroll of improvisation (lasts for five uses per cast)
Done.

Guard
2014-08-16, 05:50 PM
True enough. If you an boost your spellcraft high enough (you can), you can ditch material componens altogether, beyond the initial investment.

Scrollforged is a new way to arrive at the Tippy-verse's post-scarcity economy - that one used self-resetting traps (paying components once for endless spells) instead of re-useable scrolls(same deal).

The existance of fabricate and wish means you've now broken the game world (it already was, but this time it's with a mechanic expressively designed for player use)

Anyway, mostly, these things look really cool. I even support the idea of the scrollforged, although I think the execution needs some changing around. Maybe you need to provide expensive components and xp to cast off a scroll if you want it to be re-usable later?

Keledrath
2014-08-16, 05:51 PM
That's a good idea. I'm also thinking I'll put a cap on uses/scroll and times/day.

unseenmage
2014-08-16, 08:28 PM
How about the Woeforged or undeath related Warforged? IIRC they're hinted at in one of the books but we never get stats for them. Think either Warforged made from corpses or straight up undead Warforged. Either they are Undead with some Construct traits (replace the humanoid stuff in a normal Warforged with Undead stuff) or they're Constructs with some Undead-ish benefits.

How about too the Brewforged, or alchemical Warforged. Basically the net effect of using many lesser spells and alchemical items and special materials to make a Warforged by hand. I use Quintessence (SRD) for the blood, Shapesand (Sa) as a binding agent, Livewood (ECS) for the living traits and wood, Living Metal (MoF) for the healing and the metal bits, and Minor Servitor (SS) for animation and giving it a mind. They would look handmade and roughshod compared to the normal factory produced variety.


And a suggestion to replace Disease Immunity, perhaps Immunity to being Cursed instead? Cursed Magic Items are already niche and immunity to Bestow Curse could be nice. Not to mention immunity to being cursed in some of the more Book of Vile Darkness ways.
Or for something more low key either an immunity to or vulnerability to rusting spells and effects. It's nice and thematically appropriate either way.
Edit: Or play up their wood or stone traits. Perhaps pick one either metal, wood, or stone and get immunity/vulnerability based on that?

Keledrath
2014-08-16, 08:33 PM
How about the Woeforged or undeath related Warforged? IIRC they're hinted at in one of the books but we never get stats for them. Think either Warforged made from corpses or straight up undead Warforged. Either they are Undead with some Construct traits (replace the humanoid stuff in a normal Warforged with Undead stuff) or they're Constructs with some Undead-ish benefits.

I actually made one for a campaign (didn't get in sadly), and we pretty much ruled that it was a Warforged who took the Tomb Tainted Soul feat.


How about too the Brewforged, or alchemical Warforged. Basically the net effect of using many lesser spells and alchemical items and special materials to make a Warforged by hand. I use Quintessence (SRD) for the blood, Shapesand (Sa) as a binding agent, Livewood (ECS) for the living traits and wood, Living Metal (MoF) for the healing and the metal bits, and Minor Servitor (SS) for animation and giving it a mind. They would look handmade and roughshod compared to the normal factory produced variety.

I would be more inclined to do this if it was PF, where alchemy can be useful. I could see the fluff aspects being done, but what mechanical differences would there be?



And a suggestion to replace Disease Immunity, perhaps Immunity to being Cursed instead? Cursed Magic Items are already niche and immunity to Bestow Curse could be nice. Not to mention immunity to being cursed in some of the more Book of Vile Darkness ways.
Or for something more low key either an immunity to or vulnerability to rusting spells and effects. It's nice and thematically appropriate either way.

Maybe, but I'm not really feeling a connection between Urban robot Druid and immunity to curses.

Maybe the ability to be treated as a Plant type for spell effects when beneficial?

unseenmage
2014-08-16, 08:43 PM
Well for Brewforged they could just be the thing that makes Alchemy useful. Is there any way you could make them more like a PF alchemist without brewing up a whole class for them?
That or play up the conglomerated nature of their body and make them harder to polymorph.
Possibly allow Craft Alchemy checs to happen at a reasonably fatse rrate for a Brewforged because it mixes in some of its Shapesand blood into the mix?


I like the plant idea. The curses thing was just me spitballing, sorry.

Edit: I like the Tomb Tainted Soul thing. Nice and simple and easy to remember.
Could also have it detect as evil and undead regardless of it's actual alignment and creature type too.

Keledrath
2014-08-16, 08:55 PM
Well for Brewforged they could just be the thing that makes Alchemy useful. Is there any way you could make them more like a PF alchemist without brewing up a whole class for them?
That or play up the conglomerated nature of their body and make them harder to polymorph.
Possibly allow Craft Alchemy checs to happen at a reasonably fatse rrate for a Brewforged because it mixes in some of its Shapesand blood into the mix?

The problem is that if I did that, it would be similar to gestalting the PF Alchemist on to them.

The thing is, that each of these is directed at a specific class/group of classes
Warforged = Initiators
Psiforged = Psionics
Soulforged = Incarnum
Scrollforged = Wizard or Artificer
Wildforged = Druid or Urban Druid (and technically Cleric)

I would be more inclined to try making them for Tome of Magic classes next.

Also, looking at your Brewforged description, that just seems more like a proto-forged than a full on warforged. Like someone trying to make a warforged without a Creation Forge.

unseenmage
2014-08-16, 09:11 PM
Ah I see, and you'd prefer not to break up the set.

Then feel free to reserve Brewforged for a PF section somewhere and have it augment the Alchemist.
Could have Woeforged augment one of the Necromancy based classes too I suppose.

Good point about my description. Dead on really. These variants just reminded me of my own idea and I tried dovetailing the two together. My bad.

Keledrath
2014-08-17, 12:49 AM
By the way, anyone interested in trying these out, I'm recruiting for a PbP using these (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?367150-Warforged-Campaign-(3-5-GM-and-Players-needed-Eberron-prefered)). We still need a GM though

EDIT: Also, added Woeforged as a full option that increases your Effective Caster Level for the purposes of animating undead.

Nando
2014-08-17, 10:25 AM
I would be more inclined to try making them for Tome of Magic classes next.

Hmm...

I guess there should be one form for each kind of magic in the ToM?

I'm not so familiar with Pact-/Shadow-Magic, but for the Truenaming one, something like "Truename Training", "Obscure Personal Truename" and/or allways knowing ones own personal truename seems appropriate. Abilities could either beas the ones for the Scrollforged or with an additional +2 Cha/-2 something...?

"Pactforged" could get "Bind Vestige" as a bonus feat, but I guess that wouldn't be much of a benefit for an actual Binder?

Keledrath
2014-08-17, 10:30 AM
I'm not so familiar with Pact-/Shadow-Magic, but for the Truenaming one, something like "Truename Training", "Obscure Personal Truename" and/or allways knowing ones own personal truename seems appropriate. Abilities could either beas the ones for the Scrollforged or with an additional +2 Cha/-2 something...?

Truenaming is getting a +Int, and probably a racial bonus to Truespeak.


"Pactforged" could get "Bind Vestige" as a bonus feat, but I guess that wouldn't be much of a benefit for an actual Binder?

I was considering Improved Binding, but that's a FANTASTIC feat for any binder under level 17.

Probably going to get a bonus on Binding checks with a +Con, -Wis.

Guard
2014-08-17, 01:00 PM
Do the warforged templates get warforged stat mods on top of what's mentioned in the templates as part of the 'other traits' clause?

Edit: did you consider an incarnum based warforged feat? Maybe it could work sort of like those feats from Cpsi that lets you use psionic focus to boost your armour? (Just better, those feats are terribad.)

Keledrath
2014-08-17, 01:15 PM
Do the warforged templates get warforged stat mods on top of what's mentioned in the templates as part of the 'other traits' clause?

No, the stat modifiers listed on the template are the stat mods that they get. Replacement, not addition.


Edit: did you consider an incarnum based warforged feat? Maybe it could work sort of like those feats from Cpsi that lets you use psionic focus to boost your armour? (Just better, those feats are terribad.)

Well, getting a bonus essentia is a pretty big deal for meldshapers, and they can make solid use of Mithral or Adamantine Body. And Totemists are great to pick up the Tracery feats on. I might increase the racial essentia to 2 points though, since this is supposed to be worth 1 LA.

unseenmage
2014-08-17, 01:58 PM
By the way, anyone interested in trying these out, I'm recruiting for a PbP using these (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?367150-Warforged-Campaign-(3-5-GM-and-Players-needed-Eberron-prefered)). We still need a GM though

EDIT: Also, added Woeforged as a full option that increases your Effective Caster Level for the purposes of animating undead.

Then I think Woeforged for me it is. Havn't played a master of undeath in quite a long time.


Also, have you considered an option for each of the specialist Wizards and/or the variants of psion? The idea of a warforged built to excel at making astral Constructs intrigues me.
Perhaps one template for specialist Wizards. Call it the Focusforged maybe? Gets better at being a specialist Wizard.

Keledrath
2014-08-17, 02:07 PM
Also, have you considered an option for each of the specialist Wizards and/or the variants of psion? The idea of a warforged built to excel at making astral Constructs intrigues me.
Perhaps one template for specialist Wizards. Call it the Focusforged maybe? Gets better at being a specialist Wizard.

No, if for no other reason than because that is getting needlessly specific in benefiting classes that don't need it.

Notice how the Scrollforged is actually useful to anyone with UMD. The only things that make it better for wizard are the wizard's automatic Scribe Scroll and Int SAD.

The Psiforged is actually more useful for psionic classes that are limited on Power Points, which the Psion really isn't.

unseenmage
2014-08-18, 08:35 PM
Just had a though, you mentioned that this template is supposed to work like the Dragonborn template.
I suggest calling this template the Forgeborn Template to play on that similarity.


Fluff-wise it means that both creatures with this template were made in a variant forge, made in a lab accident, or literally born in a monster lair located in the burnt-out, but still mystically active, ruins of a Creation Forge.

Keledrath
2014-08-18, 08:39 PM
Yeah, Forgeborn sounds better since Warforged are now a specific kind.

Well, the Creation Forges are kept pretty mysterious, so I'd imagine it would be the same process using different methods with the same forged. Like, Psiforged would have a crystalline element, and Scrollforged would have paper elements.

Ellowryn
2014-08-19, 12:19 AM
As you seem to be using the dragonborn template for the basic rules of this template do you keep the powerful/slight build racial triats too?

Keledrath
2014-08-19, 12:23 AM
That was the thought. I wish there was a rules-speak way of saying that if it is physically part of your race (and not too detail oriented like elven spot/listen bonuses), you keep it.

unseenmage
2014-08-19, 12:26 AM
That was the thought. I wish there was a rules-speak way of saying that if it is physically part of your race (and not too detail oriented like elven spot/listen bonuses), you keep it.

The Effigy template from Complete Arcane(IIRC) does that pretty well by saying you get to keep Ex traits only. Works for Races too since you can technically make Effigies of 1HD humanoids. Sometimes it can be irritating though figuring out which racial traits are Su, Sp, and Ex though. My rule of thumb is that if it's magical in any way the Effigy (and by extension these variant Warforged) doesn't get it.

Ellowryn
2014-08-19, 12:49 AM
Sweet, i gotta say i like these templates but i think the soulforged is a little underpowered. Perhaps instead of the bonus essentia (which really isn't that important especially without a fix to the amount you can invest) maybe give any creature that can shape soulmelds the ability to have one extra soulmeld shaped? Also, no bonus ability for wildforged? The alternative class features rock (perhaps there could be more of those for the other templates later) though.

Keledrath
2014-08-19, 01:02 AM
Sweet, i gotta say i like these templates but i think the soulforged is a little underpowered. Perhaps instead of the bonus essentia (which really isn't that important especially without a fix to the amount you can invest) maybe give any creature that can shape soulmelds the ability to have one extra soulmeld shaped? Also, no bonus ability for wildforged? The alternative class features rock (perhaps there could be more of those for the other templates later) though.

With regards to the soulforged, I was considering making it 2 bonus essentia. I'm not sure what you're talking about with essentia not being a big thing, I always feel I could use more. I feel the extra meld might be a bit on the strong side. I was trying to keep it in line with the current Incarnum races, which are all just +essentia.

As far as Wildforged, the only thing I can think of is like a bonus on Cha based checks with animals. The sub levels were meant to be the big draw for them. Currently it's just the Urban Druid, but I do plan on eventually making a Wildforged Druid sub level set. The problem is the spell list modifications are extensive.

Bluydee
2014-08-19, 11:17 AM
May I suggest you allow psiforged to pick between int, charisma, and wisdom?

Keledrath
2014-08-19, 11:36 AM
May I suggest you allow psiforged to pick between int, charisma, and wisdom?

I'd considered it, but generally I dislike allowing people to pick stat mods. I do acknowledge that Psiforged is probably the weakest of the bunch, but I'm not really sure that's a problem, since it is blatantly not meant for Soulknife, and I feel PsyWar would do better grabbing either Soulforged or Warforged and dipping Incarnum or ToB. Wilder gets left out in the cold though, so I might make +2 Cha an option.

bekeleven
2014-08-20, 02:17 AM
None of these templates appear to buff non-initiator mundanes (fighters, barbarians, scouts, rangers, monks, rogues, etc.) Is that intentional or could you just not think of a good "you get +1 to something" for them?

As a fix I'd suggest either a template that gives +2 to one ability and nothing else, or a template that grants bonus skills (like a human).

Keledrath
2014-08-20, 02:27 AM
None of these templates appear to buff non-initiator mundanes (fighters, barbarians, scouts, rangers, monks, rogues, etc.) Is that intentional or could you just not think of a good "you get +1 to something" for them?

As a fix I'd suggest either a template that gives +2 to one ability and nothing else, or a template that grants bonus skills (like a human).

A little of both. I kind of consider the Warforged to be a buff to non ToB martials as well, since it makes dipping ToB better :smalltongue:

What about

Hulkforged: +2 Str, +2 Con, Powerful Build (stack with a base race that has powerful build)

Scoutforged: +2 Dex, reduce size by 1 category but keep previous speed and stats, +2 Spot/Listen/Search

Monkforged: Treat all Monk levels as if they were levels in Swordsage. For everything.

bekeleven
2014-08-20, 02:30 AM
Monkforged: Treat all Monk levels as if they were levels in Swordsage. For everything.

I will think of a way to abuse this somehow.

Keledrath
2014-08-20, 02:34 AM
I will think of a way to abuse this somehow.

Easy. Gestalt.
Monkforged Monk//Swordsage. Completely rules legal doubled progression.

Tempestfury
2014-08-20, 04:08 PM
I think a stealth/agility based Warforged would be pretty nice. And a bit more detail wouldn't hurt either. As their currently just numbers, which makes them a little... flat.

Keledrath
2014-08-20, 04:21 PM
Flavor I've got bouncing around, wanted to get the crunch down first.

This weekend I'm planning on trying to figure out Shadowforged, which will synergize with Shadowcaster. It might come out looking really OP, but that's because shadowcasting sucks. I'm thinking stuff like more mystery usage, since that's the biggest weakness.

Ragnarok'n'Roll
2014-08-23, 12:35 AM
One thing to note, the wild forge template penalizes cha but that's the primary casting attribute for the urban druid substitution levels you also posted. Not sure the trade off are really worth it. straight druid seems better.

Keledrath
2014-08-23, 08:53 AM
One thing to note, the wild forge template penalizes cha but that's the primary casting attribute for the urban druid substitution levels you also posted. Not sure the trade off are really worth it. straight druid seems better.

And here we have a case of me initially planning on making it normal druid and not realizing that urban druid has a different casting stat. Switching penalty to Int.

Squark
2014-10-09, 11:51 AM
One thing I wasn't sure on; The templates grant the standard warforged racial traits; does that include their ability score modifiers? Because that'd make the Warforged template awkward for martial classes with a Charisma focus (Paladins and to a lesser extent Crusaders)

Keledrath
2014-10-09, 06:06 PM
One thing I wasn't sure on; The templates grant the standard warforged racial traits; does that include their ability score modifiers? Because that'd make the Warforged template awkward for martial classes with a Charisma focus (Paladins and to a lesser extent Crusaders)

No, the new ability mods are replacements. I was referring to things like the Slam attack and the whole bevy of Living Construct traits.

Tempestfury
2014-10-10, 03:19 PM
No, the new ability mods are replacements. I was referring to things like the Slam attack and the whole bevy of Living Construct traits.

Can't you jut copy and past it in order to make everything clear?

Keledrath
2014-11-04, 09:14 AM
So, because of usability, I just added a line to the beginning.

When using a vanilla human (linked to SRD) as a base creature, you do not suffer LA.

Keledrath
2014-11-17, 11:35 AM
On recommendation from a friend, I added another restriction to the Scrollforged: The spell level of scrolls you use is limited to your Int modifier.

Keledrath
2014-11-24, 12:47 PM
Added the Scoutforged for Dex based Warforged.

EDIT: Also modified the bonus feats to allow you to choose a feat from the matching subsystem (Psionic, Incarnum) or a Combat feat (for War and Scout). For those of you unaware, Combat feats are a PF typing, and the 3.5 version would basically be "Fighter Bonus Feat"

Keledrath
2015-01-20, 10:55 AM
Changed the stat mods on the Warforged from -Cha to -Wis. This was because I was looking at the initiators, and realized that Warlord, Crusader, and Zealot all fit the Warforged much better than Swordsage and Stalker, so I moved the penalty to indicate that connection.