Battlestar Galactica, WARNING PROBABLE SPOILERS

[Icewalker]

I would just like to note first off that this thread is going to be FULL of spoilers for BSG, and I'm sure eventually someone will forget to drop one into a spoiler tab, so stop reading now if you haven't watched the show this far. Then watch it. Because BSG is amazingly good.

So......Maelstrom.......wow.........
I can't believe they actually did that. If you haven't seen the episode Maelstrom yet, the one about Starbuck seeing that circular pattern with the white-blue-red-yellow rings, stop reading now.

wow. Can't believe it. They said they were going to kill off a major character this season, but DAMN! starbuck? She's one of the most important characters on the show!

[averagejoe]

Maybe she's a cylon. I mean, seriously, they can't just kill her off when all that crazy religious stuff is going on. I mean, she's a main character, you can't just kill off main characters. Anyone who writes the show see the original BSG? It was Apollo and Starbuck, the main characters. I'm holding out for the cylon option, and then she gets resurrected. That would still reek though.

[Icewalker]

I dunno, that'd be a little wierd. and the producers and such have said in many interviews and such that "a prominent name will be missing from the credits" ie someone dies. Also that a big event in the episode Maelstrom (said Kara dies episode) will change a lot... The BSG folk are more into making it just a damn awesome show, forget the ratings and whether you scare or annoy people, just a damn good show. They don't appear to have ever had qualms about bumping off major characters if it is awesome. which this was.

[Sailacela]

I'm not bothering with a spoiler tab because anyone that views this thread when it's titled with a WARNING PROBABLE SPOILERS has no room to complain if they see a spoiler. So if you're one of those people, shoo shoo!

Honestly, it never even occurred to me that Starbuck is dead. She's a cylon. It is the only thing that makes sense. All that's been said about her purpose and destiny can't be referring to "you're destined to fly into a 'hurricane' and blow yourself up". That'd be waaaaaay weak if that were the intent of the writers. Don't forget that pattern she'd been drawing and painting appeared on Cobal (sp?), it's not just a weather pattern. I think it's more in keeping with all the chosen one discourse we heard from Baltar, Caprica, and 'Xena' (don't know that cylon's name/number). Starbuck is a cylon and is the chosen one.

[averagejoe]

Spoiler tags rock :smalltongue: .

That's exactly what I mean. I don't mind bumping off major characters per se, unless it gets rediculous (I'm looking at you, George R. R. Martin), but this character clearly had something going for her. It would kind of suck if they just let all that interesting religious stuff just go to waste.

[Gorbash Kazdar]

Spoiler tags rock :smalltongue: .

That's exactly what I mean. I don't mind bumping off major characters per se, unless it gets rediculous (I'm looking at you, George R. R. Martin), but this character clearly had something going for her. It would kind of suck if they just let all that interesting religious stuff just go to waste.
Indications are that this will actually lead to the interesting religion stuff being even more important, based on comments from the producers and other spoilers. I'll post some links if I can find them again.

[MReav]

Oh please, Kara's not dead. She's a Cylon.

Warning: Insane theories follows:

In fact, the whole of humanity has been replaced by Cylons. It's just that 40 years ago, something happened, and now Cylon-kind is suffering a massive reboot where they're replaying the same events over and over.

Or she's a a descendant of the Lords of Kobol, and they also get "Get out of Death Free" cards.

[Icewalker]

I dunno, I'm pretty sure shes dead. I guess it is possible she is a cylon, in which case the major character who dies this season would probably be Baltar, what with the trial and stuff comin up. It wasn't a nothing death, it was all symbolic and confusing and crazy and impressive, especially with Lee seeing the heavy raider right before she hits the line. I dunno, but I think they actually killed her.

Also, I am positive it is spelled Kobol, although I suddenly realized I have aboslutely no idea why.

[Nahal]

The whole psychic interaction between humans and cylons has me a little confused though. And I'll bet that either Starbuck or Baltar is a cylon, since no. 3's reaction to seeing the final 5 implied that one of the key humans is in fact not human.

[Icewalker]

Oh definitely, at least one main character is a cylon. I think the producers and such may have actually said that, but I'm not sure. Also, on the subject of Kara being a cylon, she is quoted as saying that she is finished with the third season after the episode Maelstrom, this one. It is possible she returns in the fourth season as one of the final five, but I don't think so.

[ray53208]

i disagree. (shocking, huh?)

take a good long gander at that ship starbuck was tailing. go to your tivo's and dvr's and avi's now and freeze frame. take a few seconds and look at the profile of that vessel. not cylon.

back in the original incarnation of the show there were advanced civilizations that aided the galactica and (now hold onto your hats) brought starbuck "back from the dead". some of you might remember them: big glowing ships, everyone wore all white, moved really fast and at odd angles. yeah those ones.

thats whats happening here. only its more like jodie foster in contact. they already had her. she didnt die. shell show up again and everyone will freak out.

its possible that shes special because we never see kara's dad. maybe they pulled a shmi skywalker and impregnated mean old mrs thryce. aliens gotta protect their investment. (or not, i mean its just a theory).

[averagejoe]

Interesting. I could never watch the old series for more than a fifteen minute or so stretch. :smalltongue:

[Altair_the_Vexed]

As far as I can tell, the 79/80 series "Starbuck back from the dead" plot only happened in Galactica 1980. With the critical praise that series got, I'll not be holding my breath.

[Tharj TreeSmiter]

i disagree. (shocking, huh?)

take a good long gander at that ship starbuck was tailing. go to your tivo's and dvr's and avi's now and freeze frame. take a few seconds and look at the profile of that vessel. not cylon.

back in the original incarnation of the show there were advanced civilizations that aided the galactica and (now hold onto your hats) brought starbuck "back from the dead". some of you might remember them: big glowing ships, everyone wore all white, moved really fast and at odd angles. yeah those ones.

thats whats happening here. only its more like jodie foster in contact. they already had her. she didnt die. shell show up again and everyone will freak out.

its possible that shes special because we never see kara's dad. maybe they pulled a shmi skywalker and impregnated mean old mrs thryce. aliens gotta protect their investment. (or not, i mean its just a theory).


You're thinking of Apollo. In the original series he "died" and was brought back by the guys in white.

I like to pretend that battlestar 1980 never happened, it was so bad it made the original look good!

[MReav]

As far as I can tell, the 79/80 series "Starbuck back from the dead" plot only happened in Galactica 1980. With the critical praise that series got, I'll not be holding my breath.

Actually, it's from the only decent episode of the series.

[Icewalker]

Well even if she isn't dead, we won't find out until the fourth season. She said herself that she was done with season three after the episode Maelstrom.

[Altair_the_Vexed]

Season four isn't expected till January 2008!

Being in the UK, I've been catching up with BSG much faster than the premieres are showing on TV, so I'm used to watching an episode or two each week. Now I have to wait a year to find out what they're doing with Starbuck?

Arses.

[Icewalker]

Well, I just downloaded and rewatched parts of Maelstrom, and oh my god, there is MASSIVE implication that Starbuck is a cylon, although I am still skeptical. Leoben says to her after she sees her mother die in the vision thing right before she dies:


"See, theres nothing so terrible about death. When you finally face it, its beautiful. You're free now, to become what you really are...I'm here to prepare you to pass through the next door. To discover what happens in the space between life and death"

Kind of reminds you of what model 5 has been doing, huh? seeing the final five in the space between life and death...in fact, I think she uses that exact phrasing, "the space between life and death."

And then the last thing Kara says before she hits the hard deck is "They're waiting for me."

Then she dies.

[ray53208]

You're thinking of Apollo. In the original series he "died" and was brought back by the guys in white.

I like to pretend that battlestar 1980 never happened, it was so bad it made the original look good!

oh jeez, youre right. it was apollo! i have the images of the event in my head but only the most basic plot points remain.

and yes galactica 80 was bad. so very very bad. it made god cry. every time its on tv a kitten dies of a broken heart.

starbuck isnt a cylon. puh-leeeze. its too frakin' obvious. shes connected to the lords of kobol. a descendant if you will. shes got a destiny and its all about finding earth. toasters dont get drunk. (pure speculation on my part, but have you ever seen a drunk toaster?)

and why all this talk of season four? season three isnt done yet, gorramit. sure its fun to speculate, but theres a lot of story left between now and then.

[averagejoe]

Yeah, but how can her destiny be about finding earth if she's dead? That's my earlier point.

Actually, I thought Galactica 1980 was pretty hilarious. Like when they get attacked by one of those cleche 1980's TV biker gangs that pop up in every 1980's film/show (well, sometimes it's teenagers with mohawks and the light, but they always wear black leather. Anywho, this biker gang is attacking the guys from Galactica, so the Galacticans activate the function that lets their motercycles fly in order to escape. And then they go back in time and defeat the Nazis! Yay!

[WampaX]

I slept through most of this episode (very comfortable couch, low interest in the character) but upon waking up for the final 5-10 mins of episode, I immediately postulated to the other person who was watching the episode that she's a cylon, to which they nodded and said "very probable" . . . but other theories presented here of a third party intervention . . . I don't know.

But due to my severe apathy toward the character, I also don't really care.

[Swordguy]

The sole reason I can come up with to believe that Starbuck is actually dead is the following:

There was all that talk about her "destiny". We all know how much Starbuck hates the idea that she's not in control of her own fate. Perhaps choosing to die was the only way she could ensure control of her own fate, as opposed to being somebody's prophet.

This is very close to the reason John Sheridan went to Za'ha'dum. HE would be in control of his own fate, even if it meant he died. It just happened that the farther away from his destiny he tried to get, the closer to it he got. Prophecy's funny that way. :smallwink:

Kara's "died" trying to do the exact same thing: get away from her destiny. And just like Sheridan, she's going to plow right into it while running.

[Logic]

I slept through most of this episode (very comfortable couch, low interest in the character) but upon waking up...
Is it just me, or do you picture a Wampa, not a moderator that goes by the name of WampaX waking up on a couch when you read this?

[caolle]

eeeeep, love the show but i may not read it cos i always forget to watch , sos i gotta wait till the things available to buy (in UK? 3 years?) but carry on all :D

[Frojoe21]

At the end of that episode, before her viper blew, she had her hand on the eject level. I'm not sure if that means anything, though I did have a suspicion that before she hit hard deck she ejected and got swooped up by the heavy raider just before the the viper blew up. However, the odds of that are highly unlikely.

As an aside, I like how they are featuring the "lesser characters" in more prominent roles with their own stories.

[Shadowblade89]

I have a hard time believing that Kara's a cylon, it just seems too obvious.

To me, the main evidence that she isn't one of the final five is the man she saw at her mother's bedside. Since he wasn't Leoben, nor anyone else I recognized, he is either someone from an organization we don't yet know or one of the final five himself. If the latter is the case, I doubt that they would show him that freely and then have Kara turn out to be a cylon as well. The producers have guarded these models identities very carefully, and it just isn't plausible to me that they would reveal two of them at once (at this point they'll all be shown at once).

My theory:
Kara ejected just before her ship crashed. We saw her fingering the lever earlier in her downward spiral, and the interference and clouds would prevent the DREDASs or Apollo from realizing what happened. She then would be picked up by whichever group or force is behind her destiny, be it cylons, members of the thirteenth colony, or something else. She'll be back, count on it.

[Icewalker]

Sorry Frojoe and Shadowblade, but I just rewatched the last seconds before she goes in, and you can see her face in the cockpit right as it begins to burn and then her viper explodes with nothing appearing to come out of it, so that theory doesn't work. although there is a really small moment right as it explodes where you can't see a portion of the ship, but the only thing that appears to leave from it is a large hunk of something. which is on fire. so probably not her, or she'd be dead anyways.

[Tharj TreeSmiter]

Ok I have a new theory which I think fits most of the evidence. Kara is not a cylon nor a human but a cyman (ok bad name, half human half cylon).

My theory is that her mother was with one of the final/original five and that's why her mom says she's special and different. She sees the eye because her dad could have taken her to the temple at a young age.

We already know that the normal cast of cylons don't know about the final five and thus probably don't know what they have done or if they are really the original five.

So somehow Kara will come back

Ok that's it, comments?

[ray53208]

I have a hard time believing that Kara's a cylon, it just seems too obvious.

To me, the main evidence that she isn't one of the final five is the man she saw at her mother's bedside. Since he wasn't Leoben, nor anyone else I recognized, he is either someone from an organization we don't yet know or one of the final five himself. If the latter is the case, I doubt that they would show him that freely and then have Kara turn out to be a cylon as well. The producers have guarded these models identities very carefully, and it just isn't plausible to me that they would reveal two of them at once (at this point they'll all be shown at once).

My theory:
Kara ejected just before her ship crashed. We saw her fingering the lever earlier in her downward spiral, and the interference and clouds would prevent the DREDASs or Apollo from realizing what happened. She then would be picked up by whichever group or force is behind her destiny, be it cylons, members of the thirteenth colony, or something else. She'll be back, count on it.

once again, i agree with the mind flayer.

[Icewalker]

Sorry, doesn't work. You can see her face in the cockpit as she enters the hard deck and the viper explodes.

New episode has shown, and from the look of the "next times" Gaius gets found innocent. what's up with that?

[AmoDman]

I can't understand why anyone would think Kara is gone. The entire serieshas been hinting at this "Eye of Jupiter" as her destiny her whole life, the image of which she descended into on that planet. I can't say exactly what happened...but something did. Maybe she is a cylon, and was downloaded. Maybe she her "death" there was temporary or illusory thing, perhaps she found her way to Earth, or something - who knows? It's obvious, in any case, that she was finally "fulfilling her destiny" there, and we've heard numerous times her destiny was to find Earth.

Edit: I just saw this week's and the preview for next's...hrm, I don't know if they're tryin' to throw us off or not, but sounded almost like they were going to reveal the Final Five as well as possibly pronounce Baltar innocent! I think it was Anders at the end of the preview that was the voice that said, "It's true...we're cylons," during which it showed a flash of the glowing Final Five followed by the faces of the following peopl - Lee, Tigh, Helo, Roslin, Tyrol, Adama, Anders.

Now personally I think it's little soon to reveal all five of the other known to exist models of cylons, but if they are my guess is it might have something to do with that music...Those faces were definitely on the propaganda front as far as "we're cylons," is concered, because first off there's more than 5 (And Helo is presumably human since his child is supposed to be a half-breed and cylon to cylon breeding to be impossible). If anyone are cylons assuming that quote from Anders can be believed I'd point the finger at Anders, Tigh, and the President's aide...since they were the ones we saw hearing the music. Hrm, I still think the preview was loaded with false information (or at least, incomplete information) though.

[ray53208]

maybe the final five is a macguffin. a red herring. a wild goose chase.

perhaps they only exist outside of reality, fighting a war on another dimension against the lords of kobol. kara will return and tell everyone this.

i know there a lot of hate for kara out there. people call her the space slut. im not gonna defend her actions (GORRAMIT THRAYCE! BALTAR?!!), but i still love her. i want her back.

[Shular]

All I can say is,

Frack...me

[Mr. Moon]

Wrong area-thingy, dear. Try Media Discusion.

[Shular]

Oops, didn't realize there was one. Sorry

[Mr. Moon]

Not a problem, it happens from time-to-time. A mod should move it for you shortly.

[Icewalker]

Well, the season closer has aired, and amodman wins the prediction contest.

Anders, Tirrel, Roslin's assistant (I forget her name) and Tigh all show up after hearing this music, convinced that they are cylons, but decide to do their duty anyways.

Kara shows up at the very end and says she went to Earth and can lead them there.

Baltar is pronounced innocent :eek:

I'm willing to bet the four of them are not in fact cylons, although there is definitely something wierd going on.




and...2008?!?!?! WHAT THE ****! WHY WHY WHY!!!!!

...sob...

(ps, sorry for the near cursing)

[averagejoe]

I have to say, style points for Bob Dylan. Not something usually expects in the genre.

That ending was pretty intense. I give it a thumbs up. I was literally jumping out of my seat.

See, I was skeptical about the chief, because he had concieved a child. We know it isn't impossible, but I thought Athena was going to be special, or something. I wonder how that development will go...

[Swordguy]

They may think they're Cylons, but they simply can't be. It's been established...erm, somewhere...that the skinjobs started infiltrating about 2-3 years before the nuking of the colonies. Tigh's been an officer for 40 years, and practically grew up with Adama the Elder.

They're either not Cylons, or something else that makes them think they're Cylons (all of them have been in Toaster custody at one time or another - plenty of time for nifty implants), or they are Cylons - but not as we understand them.

Unless the writers are going to throw thier own in-show established events out the airlock. I'm not sure I'd keep watching if they did that.

Besides, Ronald Moore already said that Cylons were not copies of people already known, so that means that Tigh cannot be a Cylon...unless Ronald Moore changed his playbook. Also Katie Sackhoff is quoted as saying Ronald Moore told her point blank that she is not a Cylon. Granted its difficult to explain how she appears in a Viper when hers blew up over a gas giant, unless that was all in her head....or the last few minutes were all in Lee's head. I suppose there could have been a Cylon Heavy raider that captured her, and perhaps the Cylons had a few extra Vipers on hand...

That leads us to Tyrol, if he was a Cylon, how did he have a kid so easily? Is Nicholas half toaster? I doubt it. Adama once said Tyrol has been working battlestars for decades, on his ship at least 8 years.

Now Anders is a wildcard. If he was a Cylon, even if #3 didn't know it, she might have subconsciously let him go in the parking garage on Caprica. Later when #3 saw the final five Cylons, she apologized to the one; which could implate him.

Finally, 9 months is a friggin long time to wait. At least we should have the BS Pegasus movie coming out in late summer/early fall to tide us over...

[AmoDman]

They may think they're Cylons, but they simply can't be. It's been established...erm, somewhere...that the skinjobs started infiltrating about 2-3 years before the nuking of the colonies. Tigh's been an officer for 40 years, and practically grew up with Adama the Elder.


Actually, no, that's never been stated...it's been an assumed thing on the part of the humans that the skinjobs are new, coupled with the skinjobs we've seen acting as though the centurions are...old. However, the skinjobs we know and love as cylons are obviously at a loss when it comes to The Final Five, which they also have certain stigmatas about ("It's complicated...but we don't talk about them" - Caprica Six). Therefore, it follows, that The Final Five pre-date them.

I think it was in fact a point they were trying to make in the finale how long the skinjobs have been around, presumably, if what the 4 believe is true. Forty Years in the service...also "no one has seen or heard from the cylons for forty years." If Tigh is correct, than he was one of if not the first plant. Also, I'm sure the Tyrol thing was supposed to be an implied developement...another half-breed we didn't know about, could there be more?

I, too, am reluctant to commit exactly that they are cylons...but they seemed pretty convinced, so I'll take their words for it. Assuming they were telling the truth, I can't see why Three would've "apologized" as she seemed to of to any of them...Kara? I don't know. It seems most likely candidate at this point, but we shall see.

I've heard that the two storylines that were rumoured to make a return from Galactica TOS were The Pegasus and Ships of Light. I never watched Galactica TOS...but apparently The Ships of Light were some resurrecting aliens of pure light. Weird, but might explain Starbuck...possible credence to her not being a cylon still if that is what's happening. I can virtually guaruntee you there was a massive ship...station...thing in that nebula. I tried to take a screenshot but Windows Media Player wouldn't let me (disregard why'd I'd be using WMP to watch the show...). There's something in that nebula besides Starbuck.

Going back to those Final Five, I've browsed lots of theories of what's going on in the show, but one fairly obvious one a lot of people keep seeming to think they're coming up with for the first time is based off the whole "All of this has happened before, all of this will happen again," thing...that humans might be evolved cylons who eventually begat cylons who continued the same process over again, and the Lords of Kobol were always the original 12...I'm not so sure about that, but it is an interesting concept, if not for the specifics, since this show does seem to be pushing higher powers at work here...God...Gods...something. A larger process guiding seemingly random events to this shared destiny of fruiting. We just don't know...argh, damn 2008!

And that was definitely Earth at the end, if there were any doubts. I paused, the continent was North America.

[Cyrano]

Nevermind the fact, why would they just say
"Ive been to Earth! Im going to lead you there!"
And then go through 5 minutes of glaaxy spanning camera work to show you Planet Grgunadstal 6, Home Of Absolutely Nothing?

[tensai]

I was watching, and I totally started thinking Terminator.

See, there's the Cylons from the future, from a point after all of humanity is eradicated. They realize what an utter screw-up they made, so they send some new, updated models back in time to fix things so bad stuff doesn't happen!

And the the Suliban come in...


Or something.

[WampaX]

Nevermind the fact, why would they just say
"Ive been to Earth! Im going to lead you there!"
And then go through 5 minutes of glaaxy spanning camera work to show you Planet Grgunadstal 6, Home Of Absolutely Nothing?

Actually, it was a shot of North America, Florida being immediately recognizable. Why they chose the North American east coast? I dunno . . . A wider shot showing more that one quarter of the Earth would have been a better shot, I think.


I was watching, and I totally started thinking Terminator.

See, there's the Cylons from the future, from a point after all of humanity is eradicated. They realize what an utter screw-up they made, so they send some new, updated models back in time to fix things so bad stuff doesn't happen!

Nah, the cylons at the end are just the good Cylons . . . or something.

[averagejoe]

Actually, it was a shot of North America, Florida being immediately recognizable. Why they chose the North American east coast? I dunno . . . A wider shot showing more that one quarter of the Earth would have been a better shot, I think.



Nah, the cylons at the end are just the good Cylons . . . or something.

See, that's funny, because the west coast was immediately obvious to me. I thought they did a great job with that one. I especially like how they were able to make the spaceships seem very small. The shots of the fleet are typically close ups, but I liked how they got the whole thing as a small area in the middle of the screen. Just kinda gets to that whole humanity dwarfed by nature type thing.

Good Cylons? The only good Cylon is a DEAD Cylon. :smallfurious:

[ray53208]

hmm, i always recognize the gulf of mexico. but, yeah, definitely earth.

no, they arent skinjobs. there were only four of them. they are linked to earth somehow, though. maybe though the extradimensional beings i theorize about existing as a modification of the original series' "close encounters". there is a third party involved here. maybe its the lords of kobol, maybe the final five are much more benevolent than the others, maybe its someone from the future.

i knew starbuck would be back. im glad shes back. i love her.

if it turns out that all of humanity is a frakkin' skinjob im going to be a tad upset. but its more likely that they are somehow recieving "inspiration" from some "higher" plane. maybe remembering past lives, since the cylons are insistant that this has all happend before.

the song was resonating in the bulkheads of galactica, when the presidents assistant quoted lyrics in the mirror i thought i recognized the song. at least i got the era right: bob dylan. if we assume that the song isnt on a classic rock station "playin' the hits of yesteryear", and that the show is taking place in the here and now (as opposed to "long long ago"), then that would make galactica about 40 lightyears away from earth.

i think it would be fitting if they arrive at earth and find that the original 70s tv show happened on earth. that the "inspiration" runs both ways. dreamers on earth spun tales about galactica because there was some kind of connection, just like how people were hearing bob dylan in the bulkheads. i mean they didnt hear the whole song, and the makers of the show had to fill in the gaps they didnt have. which is why it wasnt a perfect telling of what happened, but instead a "post-apocalyptic utopian tale".

[Zweee]

Wow!!!
That was the biggest cliff hanger yet.

[Cyrano]

I have one question. Forgive me if it's been asked.

Kara gets blown up, yeah, I can deal with that.
She comes back. Concievable, they have escape pods.
Why does she still have a viper?

Wouldn't that have to mean that Earth has a fleet that conforms to nearly the exact parametres of Fleet ships? Or does it just mean Apollo is being hallucinatory?

[ray53208]

I have one question. Forgive me if it's been asked.

Kara gets blown up, yeah, I can deal with that.
She comes back. Concievable, they have escape pods.
Why does she still have a viper?

Wouldn't that have to mean that Earth has a fleet that conforms to nearly the exact parametres of Fleet ships? Or does it just mean Apollo is being hallucinatory?

because super-dimensional beings who can infiltrate your dreams and thoughts, rescue people at the very point of emminent death, and go to and fro between the fleet and earth like its a walk to the mailbox, can probably also build a new viper for kara.

[averagejoe]

I have one question. Forgive me if it's been asked.

Kara gets blown up, yeah, I can deal with that.
She comes back. Concievable, they have escape pods.
Why does she still have a viper?

Wouldn't that have to mean that Earth has a fleet that conforms to nearly the exact parametres of Fleet ships? Or does it just mean Apollo is being hallucinatory?

'Cuz she's Starbuck. Starbuck has to have a viper.

[Icewalker]

Yeah, averagejoes got that one, Starbuck always has to have a viper. But yeah, it's pretty freaky. They had better have a better explanation than special super magic technology rific people with resurrection powers. That'd just suck.

Also, the song is All Along the Watchtower, with the first four verses:

There must be some kind of way out of here
Said the joker to the thief
Theres too much confusion
I cant get no relief
So yeah, the four of them each say a verse of it before running into each other. I for one don't think they are cylons.

[Cyrano]

IT SUCKS SO HARD. I know the name of the song, and who sings it. Yet there isn't a version that comes close to the bizarity and movingness that the BSG version illicits. And all the clips that show it on Youtube are Copyright Infringements. Damn.

Anyway, I suppose it's possible that they could have brought back the Angels of Light and Uber Wtf Goodness In A Brightly Bundle Of Demon Slaying And Random Benevolence (or SUCKERS for short), and I suppose they could recreate a viper, and Im fine with that.
AS LONG AS THEY DON'T BRING IN COUNT IBLIS!

[CDR Grendelwulf]

I don't mind if they bring back Count Iblis....
...but only if Count Iblis is played by Laurence Fishburne!

I don't think the four are Cylons...or at least as we know them. The writers love to mess with our heads. They won't be so obvious.

Ciao,
CDR Grendelwulf

[Icewalker]

Also, I loved that camera work at the end, where it zoomed from the nebula to the fleets to the nebula to the galaxy to Earth, with the music playing.

It somehow...it somehow really fit with the music, you know? It just kind of...worked. It always just works, the creators of BSG are just crazy awesome.

[Altair_the_Vexed]

...snip...

i think it would be fitting if they arrive at earth and find that the original 70s tv show happened on earth. that the "inspiration" runs both ways.

...snip...

Nah, I think that would suck.
Like if Terminator was a movie in the on-screen Terminator universe / timeline.

The All Along the Watchtower thing is almost certainly linked in with the original BSG series episode where the Galactica found a transmission from Earth.

[Tharj TreeSmiter]

I still like my earlier idea that starbuck and now the other 4 could be half-breeds, the original 5 (thought of as the final five by the regular skin-jobs) went to the 12 colonies long ago and began the infiltration then.

[Cyrano]

Somewhat unlikely. I mean, the Cylons supposedly never had a half breed before, right? And supposedly, they don't age (or at least they download whenever they need to.) SO technically, they should have completely infinite memory, dawning back to the creation of the Cylons (second hand in some cases, but whos countin'?) I doubt they would "miss" 5 cylon halfbreeds. And hera would make the The Final Six, which is just stupid sounding.
Leave it to me to ruin a dream and nitpick. Trust me, you'll all grow to hate me.
Does anyone HAVE a clip of the All Along the Watchtower thing? I WANNA HEAR IT AGAIN SO BAD.
ANyway, in the original series, those UBER WTF angels ressurected..Apollo? Or Starbuck? I always forget, because they're both male, the same hight, and the only difference is one is blond. Anyway, they ressurected him, so they can do the same with Starbuck. Im currently counting on that being the reason, as are surely a lot of you.
Who thinks they're gonna pop up and UBER WTF TLEPROT all the Cylons away? Because Galactica (especially defending the Fleet) cannot face 4 base stars (remember, kids, something like 300 Raiders each according to the site? A massive amount, anyway) for 10 minutes, nevermind 20. They killed 4 before, WITH the Pegasus WITH the element of surprise WITH sneaky viper support WITHOUT actually finishing. So is this third party gonna assist?

[Icewalker]

Also not only with the pegasus, but with crashing the pegasus into one. So yeah, they can't really do that again.

I sure as hell hope they don't have super white robed deus ex machina people show up and save them all, because that would be
1. Stupid
2. Boring
3. Pathetic
4. Did I mention stupid and boring?
5. Not following the levels of cool that we have come to expect from the writers
6. Stupid, boring, and pathetic
7. Boring, pathetic, and stupid
and finally
8. Tedious, idiotic, and sad.

But that's just my opinion. Deus ex machinas aren't very interesting, and if there is anything we have to come to expect from them, it's interesting plotlines. And crazy awesome, but you know.

[ray53208]

theyve got a whole other season coming up in 2008. they sure as hell arent going to fill 20 some odd episodes with deus ex machinae. its my gut instinct that the writers understand that everything has a price. there really aint no such thing as a free lunch from extradimensional beings.

its going to be an ugly, slow, painful crawl across the desert of the soul with the devil on their heels and no compass.

i for one am looking forward to it.

oh and the idea that tigh and the others are skinjobs is silly. galen said what he said because its his biggest fear. thats all there is to it.

[AmoDman]

Also not only with the pegasus, but with crashing the pegasus into one. So yeah, they can't really do that again.

I sure as hell hope they don't have super white robed deus ex machina people show up and save them all, because that would be
1. Stupid
2. Boring
3. Pathetic
4. Did I mention stupid and boring?
5. Not following the levels of cool that we have come to expect from the writers
6. Stupid, boring, and pathetic
7. Boring, pathetic, and stupid
and finally
8. Tedious, idiotic, and sad.

But that's just my opinion. Deus ex machinas aren't very interesting, and if there is anything we have to come to expect from them, it's interesting plotlines. And crazy awesome, but you know.

Well, I think you've already noted that the writers of BSG are doubtful to replicate something from BSG TOS...And I'm surprised no one's noted that massive space station or whatever glanced outside Lee's cockpit. I googled and found some discussion...some thing it's his dash's reflection. I disagree, something is in that nebula.

[Tharj TreeSmiter]

Somewhat unlikely. I mean, the Cylons supposedly never had a half breed before, right? And supposedly, they don't age (or at least they download whenever they need to.) SO technically, they should have completely infinite memory, dawning back to the creation of the Cylons (second hand in some cases, but whos countin'?) I doubt they would "miss" 5 cylon halfbreeds. And hera would make the The Final Six, which is just stupid sounding.
Leave it to me to ruin a dream and nitpick. Trust me, you'll all grow to hate me.
Does anyone HAVE a clip of the All Along the Watchtower thing? I WANNA HEAR IT AGAIN SO BAD.
ANyway, in the original series, those UBER WTF angels ressurected..Apollo? Or Starbuck? I always forget, because they're both male, the same hight, and the only difference is one is blond. Anyway, they ressurected him, so they can do the same with Starbuck. Im currently counting on that being the reason, as are surely a lot of you.
Who thinks they're gonna pop up and UBER WTF TLEPROT all the Cylons away? Because Galactica (especially defending the Fleet) cannot face 4 base stars (remember, kids, something like 300 Raiders each according to the site? A massive amount, anyway) for 10 minutes, nevermind 20. They killed 4 before, WITH the Pegasus WITH the element of surprise WITH sneaky viper support WITHOUT actually finishing. So is this third party gonna assist?

My thought was that the current cast of cylons don't know about the "final 5" which means they probably came before them because if they came after they would most certainly know about them. Starbuck, and the other 4 aren't the final (or original 5) but descendent of them. We don't know yet what a half-breed's abilities are. Can they download? Are they imbued with the knowledge of thier cylon parent? We'll just have to wait (a long time) to find out.

[MReav]

I'm willing to bet the four of them are not in fact cylons, although there is definitely something wierd going on.

I checked the Battlestar Wiki, and it gave me a link that said RDM confirmed they were Cylons.

I think the big schism between the final five and the other seven was that the final five (or the major representatives of the Final Five) decided that their ultimate goal to eradicate humanity was a bad idea, told the rest to go frak themselves, and the resulting schism resulted in the total eradication of the Final Five Cylon lines, save for the ones we know about. Remember, they boxed the entire freakin' line of Three because of the actions of one particular (unless the entire line was doing that), and if they'd do that because they were being defiant to the Cylon desire to keep the Five secret, they'd probably do in the others for a much greater defiance.

Which leads me to believe that the entire Cylon people is being dominated by the original chrome jobs, and they do not tolerate dissent. They just manipulate the Cylon religion to get the others to do what they want.

Though I wonder if the Final Five used plastic surgery?

PS: I'd be pissed if Kara is also a Cylon (hell, I was plenty pissed that Tigh was a Cylon, and I have a hard time believing Tyrol was one). I'm holding out that she/her mother was either a terran agent or somehow connected to the Lords of Kobol.

[Sailacela]

Kara gets blown up, yeah, I can deal with that.
She comes back. Concievable, they have escape pods.
Why does she still have a viper?

Well, if she's a cylon I'm sure the cylons have the capacity to build a viper. Or the storm she entered was some kind of dimensional rift (i.e. the place between life and death) and while it appeared she exploded she really shifted planes of existence and pulled a David Copperfield, or something, and poppitied out the other side of wherever the storm led (Earth?). Or we were shown events from Apollo's perspective and not necessarily what actually occurred. There are so many routes the writers could have taken.

I'm still not completely convinced Starbuck isn't a cylon but the final episode did provide me with some hope that she isn't.

[Icewalker]

Here's another possible theory:
Tigh, Chief, Sam, the president's aide, and Starbuck are the final 5 cylons. They, after seperating from the other 7 for an unknown reason, are living on Earth, either alone, or in harmony with the human population, they have better downloading technology than the other cylons, and Kara downloaded to Earth when she died, and they built her a new viper.

(They mostly fly in viper "mark 2s". These are EXTREMELY out-of-date, as they are the ones the cylons cannot hack, and could possibly have been around during the split between the colonies, so the people on Earth would know how to build one.)

That's how she knows where Earth is, although if it is that far away I don't know how she would get back to this nebula that fast. It would DEFINITELY have something to do with the station amodman has mentioned. Perhaps it is a station built by the final five which has downloading equipment.

Just another theory. I'm sure we'll see a lot of them in THE NEXT NINE MONTHS! DAMNIT!

[AmoDman]

I checked the Battlestar Wiki, and it gave me a link that said RDM confirmed they were Cylons.

I think the big schism between the final five and the other seven was that the final five (or the major representatives of the Final Five) decided that their ultimate goal to eradicate humanity was a bad idea, told the rest to go frak themselves, and the resulting schism resulted in the total eradication of the Final Five Cylon lines, save for the ones we know about. Remember, they boxed the entire freakin' line of Three because of the actions of one particular (unless the entire line was doing that), and if they'd do that because they were being defiant to the Cylon desire to keep the Five secret, they'd probably do in the others for a much greater defiance.

Which leads me to believe that the entire Cylon people is being dominated by the original chrome jobs, and they do not tolerate dissent. They just manipulate the Cylon religion to get the others to do what they want.

Though I wonder if the Final Five used plastic surgery?

PS: I'd be pissed if Kara is also a Cylon (hell, I was plenty pissed that Tigh was a Cylon, and I have a hard time believing Tyrol was one). I'm holding out that she/her mother was either a terran agent or somehow connected to the Lords of Kobol.

Except in your scenario the others would have been aware of the identities of the other Five. I believe Three's experience was as much an illustration of the 7's lack of knowledge about the Final Five as anything.

Also, Ice, technically it's just the software in the II's that makes them un-hackable. We've seen a number of VII's refitted with new software used against the cylons...they just haven't said anything about it (in the show).

[ray53208]

galen has been in the military on board battlestars since he was 18, tigh spend 40 years in the military (before there were skinjobs)... moore is messing with us, like how starbuck was "dead".

please post the link so i can see it. it could just be hot air.

[AmoDman]

I already discussed the implied revelations of Tigh and Tyrol being Cylons, specifically Tigh's explicit referenc to having been in the service 40 years. I very much doubt that BSG would leave open such gaping plot miscongruities on purpose.



Actually, no, that's never been stated...it's been an assumed thing on the part of the humans that the skinjobs are new, coupled with the skinjobs we've seen acting as though the centurions are...old. However, the skinjobs we know and love as cylons are obviously at a loss when it comes to The Final Five, which they also have certain stigmatas about ("It's complicated...but we don't talk about them" - Caprica Six). Therefore, it follows, that The Final Five pre-date them.

I think it was in fact a point they were trying to make in the finale how long the skinjobs have been around, presumably, if what the 4 believe is true. Forty Years in the service...also "no one has seen or heard from the cylons for forty years." If Tigh is correct, than he was one of if not the first plant. Also, I'm sure the Tyrol thing was supposed to be an implied developement...another half-breed we didn't know about, could there be more?

[Icewalker]

Also, Ice, technically it's just the software in the II's that makes them un-hackable. We've seen a number of VII's refitted with new software used against the cylons...they just haven't said anything about it (in the show).

Yeah, that's correct, but when she shows up at the end of the episode, she was in a mark II, and its also the only one she ever flies (I think). She ws in one when she went into the Maelstrom. And maybe the mark II was as far as they were before the 13th colony split up with the rest.

[MReav]

Except in your scenario the others would have been aware of the identities of the other Five. I believe Three's experience was as much an illustration of the 7's lack of knowledge about the Final Five as anything.

I guess I forgot to mention a purging by everyone save for the original Centurions (who want to keep it secret).

[AmoDman]

So the Battlestar Music thread has inspired me to go check out some of those mentioned soundtracks and...oh my gosh, not only is the music good, but it makes me want to watch Battlestar so much. My friends haven't seen it, and I'd gladly watch through again and as such just so everybody has a chance to see it...am I the only pissed at these stupid prices they're charging? I mean, yeah, seasons of the show are worth it, but they are ridiculous compared to even other quality one hour tv show compilations. It's like the same price for half a season of Battlestar as it is for that of a normal season of any other show...hrm, and I have trouble purchasing those as is (the only tv on dvd I own is all five seasons of Angel...awesome birthday gift).

p.s.

This may have been noted before, but...12 Cylons...12 Colonies...

[ray53208]

"Twelve is significant in ancient man’s life because there were twelve tribes in Israel, twelve disciples followed Jesus, there are twelve astrological signs in the zodiac, there are twelve months in the year, and our modern clock is divided into two groups of twelve hours. It is considered to be the ancient number of completion as it signals the end of childhood and the beginning stages of adulthood. Additionally, the ancient numbering and measuring systems are based on this number, as evidenced by terms such as a dozen (12), a gross (12 times 12), a shilling (12 pence) and a foot (12 inches)."

The Mayan number system was base 12.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/12_%28number%29#In_numeral_systems

[Tharj TreeSmiter]

We should start a support group to help us through this trying time (no new episodes till next year)

[Icewalker]

Yeah. I still can't believe they did that....
I mean what were they thinking?!?!?!

[averagejoe]

We should start a support group to help us through this trying time (no new episodes till next year)

You mean fan fics? That would be awful. Most pairings have already happened.

[AmoDman]

We could just murder people.





























I mean politely demand the producers bring back the show...













































After we murder them.

[Ruik]

I'm curious, who here actually thinks Starbuck was chasing an actual ship, and who thinks she was halucenating? I watched eppisode 17 again, and I could swear that at around the 27 minute mark, right before she gets knocked out, her viper is taking fire. Its like bolts of blue energy, or just tracer rounds from a generic weapon... and its quite clear that something hit her viper - that its not her imagination (at least to me).

What does everyone else think?

[Icewalker]

She isn't hallucinating.

Lee sees the ship right before she hits the hard deck.

[Ruik]

s what I thought... which makes me wonder why it didn't show up in her gun camera :smallconfused:

[AmoDman]

She isn't hallucinating.

Lee sees the ship right before she hits the hard deck.

It's not just Lee, we see the ship. You can spot it during the explosion in freeze frame.

[Sailacela]

We should start a support group to help us through this trying time (no new episodes till next year)

Well, it's still a way off but better than nothing. They will be airing a 2-hour long episode in November. I'm not sure if it's considered a part of the 4th season or not though. The show will then be on hiatus til January of 2008. I've seen reports that the 4th season will be the final season, but I haven't seen anything on the official site regarding that.

[Gavin Sage]

I finally found time to watch Battlestar Galactica last season and before I know it the whole series goes off the air for a year. If it wasn't so god damned good I think I would have to kill people.

And most infuriating is they are either leaving us for a major fake out or because of Tigh we are left with the conclusion that original Cylon rebellion was manipulated into occuring by outside forces. Personally I want a fake out, feel that if Hera is supposed to be so important then it supports our last scene not being what we think it is.