[3.5e] Need help with a 3.5 character!

[WitchSlayer]

Alright so here's the story: I don't play 3.5 that often at all but my friend decided to run a game in her setting and I offered to join. I was thinking of making a dread necromancer because I've wanted to play one for a while but she's limited books to PHB and PHB2 so that's all I have. She said I could multiclass into it later but she wanted a simple start, so my question for you is this:

How do I create a character that can either effectively multiclass into dread necromancer (Which seems pretty unlikely considering it's a casting class) OR another interesting character that would fit with the party. The only classes I've ever played in 3.5 are bard, warlock, and druid. The party make-up so far is:

2 clerics
2 barbarians

Yeah.

I just want something fairly interesting to play, hopefully without a ton of bookwork. We may need some sort of arcane caster class because the setting is set in the frigid north and we will have to keep track of heat levels, food, and weight. Oh and also we're starting at level 5.

[Mountain]

Well, PHB2 has the beguiler, which is similar to dread necromancer (mechanically), but is illusion/enchantment-themed as opposed to necromancy.

It fits your desire to reduce bookwork, as it casts off a set list.

[Troacctid]

Dread Necromancers aren't any more complicated than Clerics. If anything they're simpler, since you cast your spells off a fixed list instead of choosing and preparing them.

If you really have to multiclass, though, you could go for some sort of Theurge. That probably puts you on Ultimate Magus, which is a fine class.

[OldTrees1]

If you were starting at level 1:
Wizard 1 / Dread Necromancer 6-8 / Red Wizard 5(entered via multiclassing, advances Dread Necromancer) / Dread Necromancer X

However starting at level 5 is harder. Especially for multiclassing into a caster class.

Wizard 5 / Dread Necromancer 6 / Red Wizard 5 is an option I guess.

[nedz]

Lets see: the party is missing a Rogue and an Arcanist: so a Beguiler would fit the bill perfectly.

[Annay]

I agree with other people mentioning beguiler, it's very fun to play and one of my favorite classes. I wouldn't bother with multiclassing a lot. If you wanted something that raises undead, a simple wizard specialized in necromancy would do, or a warlock that picks up "the dead walk" invocation. Since your party lacks a skill monkey, another interesting thing to consider is rogue/wizard/unseen seer, if your DM let's you use the rules about sneak attacking with spells.

[DMVerdandi]

I'd talk to your DM.

Only has phb, and phb2? in this era? Is she new to the game? That is kind of drastically limiting.
Honestly, playing another druid would be the smartest choice?
Frigid north? Supply deficiency? Oh yeah. At level five, you are a level away from being able to wild shape, and you also have a list that changes based on your needs.

If arcane was DEFINITELY what you wanted to play, you COULD, play a wizard, but you are going to have to be VERY careful with your spell selection, and with your book. The worst part about being stuck out in the wilderness is that you have limited resources. I would have been more comfortable with a spell point wizard with eidetic spellcaster and fiery blast, but that is a bit much for some, especially if are DM'ing with such a small set of books.

[Segev]

If you want minionmancy, a cleric or a wizard is actually better in some ways than a dread necromancer. (I wouldn't be recommending away from it if it weren't banned, mind; it's a fun class.) But a cleric of the concept of necromancy gets Animate Dead 2 levels earlier than a wizard, and 3 levels earlier than a dread necromancer. It actually has it at level 5, where you're starting. IT has rebuke/command undead. You can do your "minionmancer" concepts very well with it.

If you go Wizard and specialize in Necromancy, you'll be pretty effective if you pick your spells well.

Sadly, the best book for necromancers is Libris Mortis, which isn't yet allowed. Corpsecrafter is AWESOME for minionmancers. For Dread Necromancers and Rebuking Clerics, Tomb-Tainted Soul is also really nice; it lets you heal off of negative energy, which you can spontaneously cast.


If you go with Beguiler, aim for Shadowcraft Mage (http://dndtools.eu/classes/shadowcraft-mage/) later on. It's not PHB or PHB2, but your DM said the restrictions will loosen with time. Combined with some other feats whose names and locations I cannot recall, it can get to silly levels where people who FAIL saves against your illusions take less damage than people who SUCCEED on them. The shadow effects are more real than the illusions!

[WitchSlayer]

I think I will go with a beguiler! Thanks you all so much.

[KingAtomsk]

I love love love the Dread Necromancer class, but if you're limited to having to multiclass into it later, with only PHB and PHBII classes to begin with, I would carefully consider if you should really get into it. You're talking about potentially losing a lot of caster levels, which is a big deal for Dread Necromancer's slow spell-level progression.

If you want to play a Necromancer-themed character, Cleric does it best (yes, even better than a wizard specialized in necromancy). You'll get Turn/Rebuke Undead and all of the most potent and classic animate/control undead spells, with a heftier 3/4 BAB and d8 hit die (not to mention two good saves)! Even with one or more other clerics in the party, it should be easy to make your focus different enough that you fulfill a different role in the party.

[Trasilor]

I think I will go with a beguiler! Thanks you all so much.

Before you go that route, talk to your party. 3.5 has serious issues with the skill monkey/sneaky classes.

Unless your whole party is sneaky, a sneaky class may become impossible to play without tons of solo missions, and beguilers thrive when they are sneaky.

Additionally, many 'skill monkey' skills are surpassed by magic at low level spells. knock > open locks, invisibility > hide, summon creature > trap finding etc.

Sorry, no real suggestion on a particular class though.:smallfrown:

[nedz]

Before you go that route, talk to your party. 3.5 has serious issues with the skill monkey/sneaky classes.

Unless your whole party is sneaky, a sneaky class may become impossible to play without tons of solo missions, and beguilers thrive when they are sneaky.

Additionally, many 'skill monkey' skills are surpassed by magic at low level spells. knock > open locks, invisibility > hide, summon creature > trap finding etc.

Sorry, no real suggestion on a particular class though.:smallfrown:

There is a standard trick to take 1 level of a PrC before Beguiler 7 — so that you can spend your advanced learning on a 4th level spell, e.g. Shadow Conjuration. Also, look at Arcane Disciple — this can add spells to your repertoire.

[WitchSlayer]

Any recommended PrCs and are there any feats that are a must have?

[nedz]

There is a Handbook here (http://www.minmaxboards.com/index.php?topic=363).