Noob Question about Magical Items

[CovaDax]

So I'm pretty new to the game (as is my group). When I've looked on forums or asked questions about fixing character problems like stats or healing or something, a lot of people respond with something like "Oh, just pick up a BLANK". Is getting magical items that easy? Can you just go to a town and get whatever you want? Is that common with most DMs? I get the feeling mind wouldn't make things quite so easy.

[nerghull]

Magic Item Compendium p.231 : A player points to an item published in this book or the Dungeon Master’s Guide and asks, “Can I buy this?” The answer should usually be, Yes.".
If the advice given where considering normal wealth per level, yes, it is that easy.

[CovaDax]

Thanks I'll show that book to him and see what he thinks :)

[Annay]

When DMing, I usually prefer to add a little more roleplay to acquiring magic items. It does not seem right to me that a player can walk in to a ''Magic Item Shop'' and say: ''Yeah, gimme one of those :insert specific magic items found in who-knows-what book:''. But still, getting the one you want shouldn't be a problem.

[Hiro Quester]

The size of the city might make some difference. Your small village magic shop may not have everything you are looking for, esp. items only used by a few, or very expensive items.

But in a mayor city you should expect to be able to find most anything. Though even there, it might take a gather information check and a bit of role playing in social encounters to find someone who has the desired item and who is willing to sell it.

[With a box]

Mage guild might made a magic ebay and take commition from it

[Korivan]

This tends to very greatly from DM to DM in my experience. Depending on the setting, there may be very little magical items at all. A magic mart in those areas would be unheard of. Other times, only big cities have such areas of magical convienence.

If you ever find ourself in cases where your characters are getting up there and your gear is sorely lacking, talk to the DM. See if he or she can incorporate more found items that the group can use if nothing else.

[nerghull]

In the same book (MIC) you can find advices to erase the "magic mart" syndrom (pawn shop, yeah !) and, as said before, wealth by community.

[Segev]

In mechanical terms, yes, it should be about that easy unless the DM is banning the item for some reason. Fluffing how you RP it is another matter. That's about how the DM wants to run his game. But however he wants to run his world, the availability should be there. Even if it means you have to commission the item or spend the money on a "reliable map" to a dungeon guaranteed to have it. (In the latter case, it's usually best to let it be a dungeon "easy" for you so it can be done in the background; if it's full-on being played, then it's really just talking to the DM about what you want and targeting your adventure so the treasure dropped is what you were looking for.)

[bjoern]

Our DM assigns each town we visit a value number. Our current town is 60k. That means that any item worth 60k or less is available for purchase.

Anything that costs more than that would have limited availability or even unavailable. Might even cost more than the listed price due to supply and demand.

[Doug Lampert]

Thanks I'll show that book to him and see what he thinks :)

DMG wealth by community size guidelines says explicitly that everything up to the community price limit "magical or mundane" is usually available, and that communities that are exceptions are rare and short lived (in that extra goods arrive, or are sold away as needed to restore the balance).

You don't need MIC, it's in the core rules in black and white.


Our DM assigns each town we visit a value number. Our current town is 60k. That means that any item worth 60k or less is available for purchase.

Anything that costs more than that would have limited availability or even unavailable. Might even cost more than the listed price due to supply and demand.

That's the by the book rule straight out of the DMG. It gets really absurd when you calculate how many of each item are available using their rules, the numbers are absurdly large unless you assume "available" means you can order it and it shows up within a few days or weeks rather than sitting on a shelf in a shop (and even then they're probably too big unless you assume brokers with teleport at larger towns, which is entirely possible given the rest of the system).

[sleepyphoenixx]

The general assumption in D&D is a high magic world. Basic supplies like 1st level scrolls & wands and common magical items like +1 weapons & armor are assumed to be available in all but the smallest settlements.
Think of it as an equivalent to a mundane marketplace. Most villages will have one, the bigger the settlement is the more expensive and exotic the wares available will be.

[Tvtyrant]

Which of course makes attacking a village suicide, as it is outfitted to the gills with ebery low llevel magic item. A city defends itself with luck blades and staffs of Erupt. All hail the magic RAW!

[Extra Anchovies]

So I'm pretty new to the game (as is my group). When I've looked on forums or asked questions about fixing character problems like stats or healing or something, a lot of people respond with something like "Oh, just pick up a BLANK". Is getting magical items that easy? Can you just go to a town and get whatever you want? Is that common with most DMs? I get the feeling mind wouldn't make things quite so easy.

As pretty much everyone has said, this varies a lot by the DM. If you want help finding a way to fix some weakness or flaw through feats/skills/class features/etc., it might be a good idea to specify in advance that you don't want to have to resort to magic items to solve the problem.

[Trasilor]

Remind your DM that not having access to magical items punishes players who survive.

Imagine, at level 5 your character dies a heroic death. You ask your DM if you can bring in another character as you were tired of that one. The DM is reasonable, and agrees. You use the DMG to find the Wealth by Level and outfit your character.

Now your new level 5 character has exactly the correct gear he needs. - as if he was able to go to a magic shop and buy the stuff.

[sleepyphoenixx]

Which of course makes attacking a village suicide, as it is outfitted to the gills with ebery low llevel magic item. A city defends itself with luck blades and staffs of Erupt. Yay RAW!

Because of course being able to buy a Luckblade means everyone in the city is equipped with one.:smallannoyed:

It's a simple fact that equipment factors as much into the ability to complete level appropiate challenges as character level does. Denying the party basic items means the DM has to adjust encounters down.


If you want to buy something not described in this chapter, the
general rule is that you can buy anything that costs as much as 3,000
gp. Buying a more expensive item, such as a +2 longsword, means
either going to a big city where rare things are for sale, making a
special deal with someone who makes or can provide the item, or
paying a premium price to a merchant who makes a special effort to
get you what you want.
That's the general assumption. Basic magic items are far from rare in a standard campaign setting.

[Fouredged Sword]

In most game I run, almost any item can be obtained within a number of days equal to the market value /1000gp. Basically, magic items are rare, but magic item crafters are not. Creating a magic item is hard enough and costly enough that you don't do it without a buyer set up ahead of time. Half up front and half on delivery will get you any item crafted, so long as the city has a craftsman able to make it. Seeing how artificers are not uncommon in my worlds, almost anything is available in a good sized city.

Keep in mind, most of the craftmen spend their time crafting potions and scrolls. You can get one to drop that and craft really valuable stuff fairly easily.

[Fax Celestis]

In addition, the fundamental framework of the game assumes that you have access to a specific amount of wealth, as determined by the Wealth By Level chart in the back of the DMG. Deviating from this will cause the game to break down, particularly at extremely low and extremely high levels, when equipment matters the most. Mostly this means that classes that don't depend upon equipment (like spellcasters and incarnum users) end up at the top, while those that do require equipment to function (primary combatants and skill-focused characters) end up at the bottom.

Not that this doesn't happen anyway, but too little wealth exacerbates the problem.

Funnily enough, too much wealth doesn't have a similar direct effect--the margin doesn't narrow proportionally to how it widens when under wealth (so I guess this is one problem that throwing enough money at it won't eventually solve). It just makes what the game considers to be appropriate challenges to no longer be appropriate (as they're too easy), which requires scaling up a couple notches on the CR belt.

[daremetoidareyo]

This is a DM's taste sort of deal. I personally don't like the idea of unfettered access to magic and I tend to stick to 2nd edition DMG approach to crafting magic items. Especially if a PC wants to tweak a magic item or make a custom item (touch of idiocy arrows, dancing whips that do lethal damage, etc). The thing that I like about 3.5 rules is that you don't need to cast permanency on everything and get that constitution drain.


Having a stock of magic items for sale in a small town strains my disbelief suspension, as they wouldn't be readily sold, (i.e. yeah, I'll sell my grandfathers +3 vorpal greatsword for a market price), as most magic items would be special to the individuals that have them. The kid in the village with the boots of striding and springing would be a local legend. Magic should be curtailed a bit, otherwise, why the hell are the people in the middle ages? Don't you think that the world would be way more...modern and convenient? If anyone could just buy what they wanted, easily, why the hell are the PCs considered special?


In the magic poorer scenario, though, treasure drops have to be a little more tailored for the PCs, (if the fighter is specialized in two handed swords, it would make sense to drop a magic two handed sword at some point)


The other benefits of slight magic item starvation is that one could quest for holy swords and magic armor and whatnot: One of the most effective storyline and adventuring hooks to mitigate some of those ADHD parties that seem to do anything but the night's prepared material; "are you sure you want to attempt to murder the shopkeeper then sleep outside the town for the night?" Further, all of the weird wondrous items, wands, and potions actually saw use, rather than being sold for healing belt money. 3.5 gameplay seems to be strongly influenced by computer games (warcraft, diablo) so magic has seen some inflation since earlier editions.


And then there is gameplay balance. The ability to buy any and all magic items, paired with the ability to super optimize in 3.5 definitely help to widen the power imbalance between classes. Keeping a tight lid on magic items for purchase helps to keep from arguments about favoritism and character imbalance. That said, if the characters have specific magic item requests; a purveyor of magic goods who tracks down leads based on what is requested is easy to introduce as a way to meter power/wealth/optimization by level. Maybe there is an NPC guy who has a bunch of connections that helps supply the PCs whose price tends to mirror the DMs guide but also has shortages of availability (to keep all PCs from having redundant magic uniforms) and occasional price hikes (for weird requests, character unbalancing items) who connects the PCs to the venders who can provide the items, rumors for how to hunt down the item in old ruins, or straight up buy the items for them with a small wait period (if the item renders the next plot hook totally inert). A guy like this is also helpful to DMs who want make a "homebase" city that adventures begin from and end at: PCs return there.


As a PC, out of character, you should approach the GM with the stuff you would like to be outfitted with, so it is on his radar when making treasure drops. GM is the final arbiter of this stuff, he is the one charged with story ark and world development. However, this is collaborative storytelling, and players naturally want their characters to be bad A mofos, not kept in the corner, so there is an element of compromise involved. Asking for 30 qual's feather tokens probably wont be honored, nor will other outlandish things, but you know, it's a way to make your part of the story feel good to you.

[Tvtyrant]

Because of course being able to buy a Luckblade means everyone in the city is equipped with one.:smallannoyed:

It's a simple fact that equipment factors as much into the ability to complete level appropiate challenges as character level does. Denying the party basic items means the DM has to adjust encounters down.


That's the general assumption. Basic magic items are far from rare in a standard campaign setting.

Its also a fact that a city has more items in it than people by those rules, even though they make pennies a day. WBL is also ludicrously abusable, perhaps more than anything else in the system.

[sleepyphoenixx]

Its also a fact that a city has more items in it than people by those rules, even though they make pennies a day. WBL is also ludicrously abusable, perhaps more than anything else in the system.

D&D is an adventuring game, not a world simulation. The idea is that you (the PC) can get minor magic items reliably, not that every village has tons of items lying around.
WBL being abusable has nothing to do with the fact that a certain amount of magic items is necessary.

If you want to play a game where that's different there are actually variant rules in the MIC iirc. Just drastically reducing wealth or the ability to spend it doesn't solve anything, it just makes the problems worse.

To get an idea just how bad that is take a look at any VoP discussion. Even with tons of big boni, free abilities and free feats not having items is pretty bad for most classes.
Just removing the items outright certainly doesn't improve matters. If you want to play a low magic or low wealth game D&D isn't the system to use unless you make a lot of changes.

[Chronos]

Personally, I prefer for the players to tell the DM out-of-game generally what they want, and the DM then has more-or-less that stuff show up in the loot the party finds. This rewards some degree of flexibility, and lets the DM tweak the treasure as needed (for instance, if the casters are overshadowing the mundanes, then you can give the mundanes a little more than they asked for, and the casters a little less).

[Sith_Happens]

So I'm pretty new to the game (as is my group). When I've looked on forums or asked questions about fixing character problems like stats or healing or something, a lot of people respond with something like "Oh, just pick up a BLANK". Is getting magical items that easy? Can you just go to a town and get whatever you want? Is that common with most DMs? I get the feeling mind wouldn't make things quite so easy.

The base assumption of the game is that you can eventually* find an arbitrary item for purchase provided that it costs no more than a specific amount determined by the population of the area you're searching for it.

* Key word "eventually." You're usually talking a decent portion of a day at least, and that's if you only want one or two things.

[nedz]

The book just sounds like a Custom Item providing a competence bonus to a skill check — one or more Knowledge skills in this case.

Cost is X2 x 100 gp; where X is the skill bonus (Max 10) — per skill.
So 2,500 gp for a +5 to one Knowledge skill.

[VoxRationis]

This forum would say yes, it is that easy. I know many personally who would disagree, myself included.

[Milodiah]

I choose to think of it this way:

If the settlement is too small to have a magic items shop, then either A) no you can't get a magic item here, or B) if there just so happens to be a private citizen who just might happen to have an item that just might happen to be what you need an just might happen to be willing to part with it for a preposterous amount of money you just might happen to have, sure, knock yourself out. Note the amount of 'just might happens' in there to get my attitude on the subject.

If the settlement is large enough to have a magic items shop or two, then I've already stocked them with specific magic items, and that's the list they have to pick from. But I understand that practically nobody else is as psychotic a worldbuilder as me, so that might not apply well to you.

If the settlement is a right proper city, with a dozen or more of them, then sure, they can get what they need. If it's a particularly exotic one, you can commission it.

[robgrayert]

I love those campaigns where you're getting paid to defend a city with magical gear that you bought IN that city! As if nobody was around to use it themselves... ;)

Seriously, though, magic items suspend disbelief PERIOD. PC's should be able easily purchase most of them, artifacts excepted maybe.

[Zanos]

A lot of people go into the assumption that D&D is like Lord of the Rings, a setting in which magic items are fairly rare, mysterious items with a storied past and meaningful names.

D&D isn't quite like that, especially as you get higher in levels. Sure at low levels you'll have somewhere between none and three or four magic items, but eventually you get all your slots filled, and by level 10 you're probably decked out in 10+ with a couple sitting in your backpack in case you need something different. Nearly everything you fight at this point will drop something of magical value. A level 5 wizard with some spare experience points and a feat can craft a +1 sword. They're not artifacts forged in the pits of the highest mountain drenched with the blood of legendary dragons or gifted to the world by deities. It's just a sword that does a bit more damage, but apparently people make a big fuss about it and find no problem that the low level wizard summons monsters to do his bidding or creates semi-real objects at level 1.

As mentioned above, the system assumes that the players have access to a certain GP value of magic items at various levels, and deviating from that tends to break the game even more than it already is. It especially hurts the classes that don't have natural access to magical effects.

If you don't like magic items, use Soul Points. Instead of having magic items at all, characters have a SP reservoir equal to their WBL for their current level, which they can spend points from to acquire magic item effects. Remove all magic items from the game, have anything they do find be an artifact, and boom. Magic items are special.

[VoxRationis]

A lot of people here have bought into the opposite assumption that D&D is DotA.

[sleepyphoenixx]

A lot of people here have bought into the opposite assumption that D&D is DotA.

It's not really an assumption if it's right there in the PHB.

[Segev]

This forum would say yes, it is that easy. I know many personally who would disagree, myself included.

That's a valid position, but it does risk throwing off balance as defined by Wealth-By-Level, since a party carrying technically the right amount of gp worth of stuff is still under-geared if that stuff is either not useful to their builds or is not useful at all.

As an example, if the party has appropriate WBL, but it's all in "trade goods" and coins, they're still under-equipped to handle a CR-appropriate threat. The whole point behind rewards in the form of gp and trade goods (which are gp described differently for fluff purposes) is to be able to go buy what you want with it the next time you're "in town."

The joke about the "magic mart" is mostly just that; in practice, what is supposedly happening is that you're shopping around and finding relatively unique items if you're purchasing at the high-end, or you're going to really specialized high-end shops. The low-end stuff is actually supposed to be relatively common, in that most moderate-sized towns will have somebody who has some of what you need, or a specialist who can make it. (scrolls, wands, potions, etc.)

[Chronos]

On the other hand, even DotA requires you to go to the Secret Shop to find some high-end items.

[Milodiah]

I mean, I've even sold lower-grade potions out of an inn in one of my campaigns.

Granted, the innkeeper decided in his vast alchemical wisdom to cut the Cure Light Wounds potions with laudanum (read: opiates) for pain reduction. Without telling anyone. It was interesting.

[Sith_Happens]

It's not really an assumption if it's right there in the PHB.

I'm pretty sure it's in the DMG, actually.

[sleepyphoenixx]

I'm pretty sure it's in the DMG, actually.

I actually quoted the relevant section on the last page. :smalltongue:

[Sith_Happens]

I actually quoted the relevant section on the last page. :smalltongue:

That only covers the cheap stuff, DMG covers everything up to 200k.