"Stop hitting yourself"? Why? It reduces metamagic costs!

[deuxhero]

Retreibution (http://www.archivesofnethys.com/WildbloodedDisplay.aspx?FixedName=Retribution) wildblood has an arcana that

Bloodline Arcana: Whenever a creature damages you, until the end of your next turn if you apply a metamagic feat to a spell that targets that creature, reduce the spell level increase of that metamagic feat by 1 (minimum 0).

Uh... yeah. They really didn't think this through did they? Punch yourself in the arm and get a free extend spell. Not great in combat (unless there is a way to damage yourself as a free action, which I wouldn't be surprised to find), but outside of combat free +1 metamagic is great.

[Fax Celestis]

Cast blood money (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/b/blood-money) for extra luls.

[Jormengand]

(unless there is a way to damage yourself as a free action, which I wouldn't be surprised to find)

Your friendly neighborhood truenamer can cause you to gain an attack action as his own swift. Truenamer cohort? :smalltongue:

[maximus25]

Doesn't cutting your hand with a knife deal 1 hit point of damage?

I know that Blood Money is cast before another spell and does deal hit point damage to you. That could work.

Edit: Swordage'd.

[deuxhero]

Bloodmoney should work. Truenamers (thankfully) don't exist in PF though.

[ArqArturo]

I can imagine a spellcaster with leadership to have a tiny monk follower that gives him/her tiny punches of fury.

[Drelua]

Just have your familiar perch on your shoulder and dig its claws into you right before you cast a spell!

Edit: having actually read the bloodline ability in question, I realize that you have to cast the spell on the creature that hurt you. Woops.

[Milodiah]

Talking is a free action.

Talking consists of moving one's mouth in order to produce words.

Logically this means the act of moving one's mouth must therefore be a free action.

One can also move one's mouth in order to bite; while attacking someone or something is a standard action, since none of the steps involved in a standard attack apply to biting one's own lip, it should therefore continue to be a free action. And given the stats on the natural attack of bite, one should deal at least one damage to one's own face.


Or, better yet, just make a magic item with a free-action command word activation that just casts Inflict Minor Wounds on you to hit for one damage, if you deliberately fail the save. A buddy of mine included this as the final step of his Badger MineTM, so that they would automatically enter Furious Dire Badger Rage Mode upon being summoned.

[Ravens_cry]

Yes, it's damn cheesy, but I like this for a Hell Knight style character. Self-Flagellation for the win!:smallcool:

[Andreaz]

As with most "retributive" buffs, one really just has to remember that "Wounds you take willingly do not count. It must be wounds you did not want to get" should be (and really kinda is, implicitly) a clause to follow forever.

[Ravens_cry]

As with most "retributive" buffs, one really just has to remember that "Wounds you take willingly do not count. It must be wounds you did not want to get" should be (and really kinda is, implicitly) a clause to follow forever.
I don't know. Yes, that's probably rules as intended, but self-damage to gain power certainly fits certain themes, and this allows you to emulate that. I'd allow it as a DM.

[1pwny]

Edit: having actually read the bloodline ability in question, I realize that you have to cast the spell on the creature that hurt you. Woops.

Just felt like this needed to be said again. :smallsmile:

But you can still bite your lip if you want to buff yourself...?

[Ravens_cry]

Just felt like this needed to be said again. :smallsmile:

But you can still bite your lip if you want to buff yourself...?
Yep! Also good if you need to, say, suddenly cast a Silenced or Still spell on yourself.

[AMFV]

As with most "retributive" buffs, one really just has to remember that "Wounds you take willingly do not count. It must be wounds you did not want to get" should be (and really kinda is, implicitly) a clause to follow forever.

Clearly you don't understand that real power comes from self-hatred and self-loathing. What could somebody hate that much to draw that much power from it other than the thing they know best.

[SiuiS]

Talking is a free action.

Talking consists of moving one's mouth in order to produce words.

Logically this means the act of moving one's mouth must therefore be a free action.

One can also move one's mouth in order to bite; while attacking someone or something is a standard action, since none of the steps involved in a standard attack apply to biting one's own lip, it should therefore continue to be a free action. And given the stats on the natural attack of bite, one should deal at least one damage to one's own face.


Or, better yet, just make a magic item with a free-action command word activation that just casts Inflict Minor Wounds on you to hit for one damage, if you deliberately fail the save. A buddy of mine included this as the final step of his Badger MineTM, so that they would automatically enter Furious Dire Badger Rage Mode upon being summoned.

That is a great way to reduce the cost of meta magic on spells you use on your magic item! Like, oh... Can't think of any.

Having an ally stick you works though, if you're buffing them.

[Andreaz]

I don't know. Yes, that's probably rules as intended, but self-damage to gain power certainly fits certain themes, and this allows you to emulate that. I'd allow it as a DM.
Clearly you don't understand that real power comes from self-hatred and self-loathing. What could somebody hate that much to draw that much power from it other than the thing they know best.And these tend to be very explicitly about self inflicted damage, not something you'd see in a bloodline focused around retribution.

[Fax Celestis]

And these tend to be very explicitly about self inflicted damage, not something you'd see in a bloodline focused around retribution.

Clearly you missed the sarcasm. This isn't a "Look at this new exploit". This is "Look at this hilarious broken thing that could've not happened with some proper phrasing."

[Ravens_cry]

And these tend to be very explicitly about self inflicted damage, not something you'd see in a bloodline focused around retribution.
They are so determined to get their vengeance, that they are willing to shed their own blood to further their goal, if required.

[AMFV]

And these tend to be very explicitly about self inflicted damage, not something you'd see in a bloodline focused around retribution.

Just because it's focused on retribution doesn't mean it needs to be outwardly focused. Self punishment is a thing and it's certainly thematically appropriate. It's retribution against yourself, for failing, for being weak. And it incites you to fail less or be stronger.

[Sith_Happens]

Not great in combat (unless there is a way to damage yourself as a free action, which I wouldn't be surprised to find)

Why does it have to be as a free action? More often than not you aren't using your move for anything remotely more important or worthwhile than free metamagic. Stick a caltrop in your shoe and go wild.

[AMFV]

Why does it have to be as a free action? More often than not you aren't using your move for anything remotely more important or worthwhile than free metamagic. Stick a caltrop in your shoe and go wild.

You could have the whole interior of your suit covered with them. It'd be very thematic and intense. And you'd scare the crap out of your foes.

[animewatcha]

Since persist spell in pathfinder is not the 24 hour thing of 3.5, is there a metamagic feat that 'replaces' it as 24 hour lasting?

[deuxhero]

Why does it have to be as a free action? More often than not you aren't using your move for anything remotely more important or worthwhile than free metamagic. Stick a caltrop in your shoe and go wild.

Because of how spontaneous casting with metamagic works you need to use for move action to cast (unless you can stick quickend on there)


If the spell's normal casting time is a standard action, casting a metamagic version is a full-round action for a sorcerer or bard. (This isn't the same as a 1-round casting time.) The only exception is for spells modified by the Quicken Spell metamagic feat, which can be cast as normal using the feat.

You don't have your move action (you could use a quick runner's shirt and do that, but that's 1/day).

[Thanatosia]

From the Blood Magus prestige class in complete arcane

Blood Component (Su): A blood magus can substitute
a drop of his own blood for a spell’s material components, if
any, and in so doing increase the spell’s power. The pinprick
or minor knife cut to draw the requisite blood is a free action
(just like using material components) that becomes a normal
part of casting the spell. Using this ability deals 1 point of
damage to the blood magus but raises the spell’s caster level
by 1. Damage reduction, if the character has any, doesn’t apply
to this damage.
Now the ability to use the blood to substitute for a material component is diffinately a class feature of the Blood Magus, but the ability to use a free action to cut yourself does not seem to be implied to be a class feature, just something it mentions the magus capable of doing to activate his class feature, so there is an in-game example/precident for being able to damage yourself as a free action.

[deuxhero]

Sadly it's mixing PF and 3.5 even if you just take the implied ability to cut yourself as a free action.


Just because it's focused on retribution doesn't mean it needs to be outwardly focused. Self punishment is a thing and it's certainly thematically appropriate. It's retribution against yourself, for failing, for being weak. And it incites you to fail less or be stronger.

In fact it's a variant of the Martyred bloodline, so it's completely appropriate.

[AMFV]

Sadly it's mixing PF and 3.5 even if you just take the implied ability to cut yourself as a free action.

Well you could chose not to cast defensively, and use your inward facing armor spikes on yourself in an attack of opportunity. I believe there's no rule forbidding that.



Sometimes a combatant in a melee lets her guard down or takes a reckless action. In this case, combatants near her can take advantage of her lapse in defense to attack her for free. These free attacks are called attacks of opportunity. See the Attacks of Opportunity diagram for an example of how they work.

Threatened Squares: You threaten all squares into which you can make a melee attack, even when it is not your turn. Generally, that means everything in all squares adjacent to your space (including diagonally). An enemy that takes certain actions while in a threatened square provokes an attack of opportunity from you. If you're unarmed, you don't normally threaten any squares and thus can't make attacks of opportunity.

Notably you threaten your own square, since you can attack things in your square and there is no prohibition against attacking an ally or yourself.

[deuxhero]

Actually: wouldn't this stack with itself on multitarget spells?



Notably you threaten your own square

Oh look, something else (http://www.archivesofnethys.com/TraitDisplay.aspx?ItemName=Mivoni%20Duelist) in that book just broke.


You gain a +1 trait bonus on damage rolls when you are the only one threatening your opponent.

Your opponent threatens themselves and makes this trait useless!

[AMFV]

Oh look, something else (http://www.archivesofnethys.com/TraitDisplay.aspx?ItemName=Mivoni%20Duelist) in that book just broke.



Your opponent threatens themselves and makes this trait useless!

Well under normal circumstances you aren't considered to be threatening allies... but you conceivably could, there is no restriction against that.

[Milodiah]

Well under normal circumstances you aren't considered to be threatening allies... but you conceivably could, there is no restriction against that.

Technically, you're not threatening the ally, you're threatening the square said ally is in. Which becomes an important distinction when the various rules for occupying the same space as an enemy come up, like being three or more size classes under them.

[AMFV]

Technically, you're not threatening the ally, you're threatening the square said ally is in. Which becomes an important distinction when the various rules for occupying the same space as an enemy come up, like being three or more size classes under them.

True, I stand corrected. It's also important because if you were squeezing with yourself you couldn't threaten yourself.