Help Making Good Guys

[troqdor1316]

So I'm starting up a campaign soon, and I've got a few ideas for it, but not a huge amount. I could use some help. Here's the premise of the game:

A few years back, a bunch of terribly evil monsters (an ogre, a bargain devil, a vampire, a hydra, and the goddamn headless horseman himself) all met up (they probably all accidentally decided to raze the same village), and became fast friends. Since then, they've been hanging out and dealing with the problems of adventuring as a group of insanely evil and hated monsters. Right now, they're trying to build an underground flying dungeon of doom as a home base for entertainment, so they can watch hapless adventurers die on the way to their lairs.

My question is, what are some good ideas for good aligned characters to truly oppose these guys, and how can I give this game an actually interesting plot beyond "Y'all are monsters, go break a kingdom?" The game is ECL 10, gestalt, and these guys are probably on the mid to upper part of mid-OP.

[iTreeby]

i'm just going to take a word dump here, not really much mechanically but hey, ideas.

1) a Ranger with the right favored enemies?

2) an impressively pious Paladin with plenty of holy water. maybe even a whole holy order?

3) someone planar bindings the devil and traps him in a dramatic double cross.

4) Get Dragged into the bloodwars?

5) every headless horsemen needs an Ichabod, if he gets killed, bring him back as a ghost forever.

6) an evil cult needs all of their hearts as material components

7)

[mr_odd]

I am slightly confused. Are the PCs the bad guys (I'm assuming they are)?

For plot, I would start with figuring out the motives driving the bad guys. Is it power? Bloodlust? Greed? Desire to be respected/feared? Revenge? Have players come up with a motive behind their actions.

Now, what if there was a "Holy Hit Squad" to oppose the bad guys? They too could have individual motives, but work together for a common goal.

Sample idea: to the east lies a forgotten swamp, where only the fearless (or stupidest) adventures travel. Before the swamp became what it is today, it was a haven for humanoids. People traveled all across the land to live in the settlement that allowed them to prosper. Then one day, a dark and ancient evil corrupted the haven. It destroyed those who made their home there and turned the land into the marsh it now is.

In order to grow in power and complete their individual goals, the PCs must venture forth to attempt to obtain and control this evil. During this entire time, a group of heroes are dedicated to destroying this evil power and hope to restore the haven to its previous state.

The heroes can be comprised of your typical adventuring party but with specific motivations, character traits, and personalities. I'm thinking a Paladin of Heironeous seeking to destroy evil, a cleric of Kord wanting restoration, a bard/rogue/factotum/Ranger living for adventure/ and an intelligent druid/wizard/sorcerer/warlock seeking to learn more about this ancient power.

[daremetoidareyo]

So you Want some BBGGs for your BBEGs?

That ogre sure could use a walloping from one of those giantfighting gnomes from races of stone.

That bargain devil would have a hard time dealing with the onslaught that a human Bard1/conjurer 5/malconvoker 6 could dish out (spell focus conjuration, augment summoning, demon mastery, cloudy conjuration, metamagic school focus, imbued summoning, planar touchstone(library of something or other: summoning domain): summon 1d4+1 fiendish direweasels imbued with scorpion tails/unicorn horns/arms a plenty: draining ridiculous constitution away while rending/smiting/stinging. Actually the second level spell, mountain stance is way better on those direweasels.

That vampire could be challenged by any cleric with a sun domain in his arsenal.

That hydra may have trouble with some sort of fire themed sharpthingy wielding barbarian.

The headless horseman may best be challenged by whatever is good at killing undead horses. Somesort of TWF/rogue armed with two things I just made up called "crossbows of light" maybe.

[Promises Kept]

Well, while I don't exactly have a plot in mind, I do have some ideas for powerful recurring villains (err... heroes), the sorts of folks that a group of evil monsters would be liable to earn the ire of, who would work quite well together.

Let's say that the group of them comes barging into a small town like they own the place, not (yet) razing it (if they're the sort of Stupid Evil that won't manage to be civil that long, this can work, too. Just have the fellow come rushing out of the tavern.), just enjoying the terror. They make their way over to the tavern, where an immensely skilled bard is playing, enthralling the townsfolk. If you play the bard up enough with your description, they'll almost certainly confront him in some way, perhaps trying to bully him, perhaps attacking him outright. He calls for the guards (Probably Warrior 4-6), and then starts to play music while hurling fire at them. Quickly enough (call it 2-4 rounds), a group of guardsmen will arrive, small fry that the PC's would ordinarily be able to deal with easily - but these guards prove to be a serious threat, enough to require actual effort from the PC's. After a round or two, the PC's will wear the bard down, probably killing a few guards. Then the captain of the guard comes bursting onto the scene, with reinforcements, who seem to be similarly dangerous. The captain himself seems just as dangerous as the bard, but even together, they're defeated, and flee the scene together (probably through use of a teleport of some sort). The PC's proceed to raze the town, slaughtering the rest of the guards, who no longer pose a threat, after the departure of the pair.

The mechanics: The bard is a Dragonfire Inspiration & Words of Creation optimized Bard//Warlock, who grants ridiculous bonuses to attack and damage to his allies with bardic music, making petty guards an actual threat to the PC's. The captain is a Marshal//Crusader, a very solid tank with some serious support capability.

A short ways outside the town is a scholarly enclave dedicated to Wee Jas. If the PC's choose to attack it, the majority of its inhabitants prove to be middlingly powerful clerics, wizards, monks, and the like (single classed, level 5-8), who pose no real threat. The leader of the order, though, is considerably more dangerous, a Paladin of Wee Jas with serious magical prowess. With the aid of a small group of defenders, he should pose a serious threat to the PC's, but also be defeated. When he dies, his corpse winks out in some form of teleport.

The mechanics: The Paladin is a Paladin 14//Sorcerer 5/Incantatrix 9, who has a serious suite of persisted buffs and is capable of using Metamagic'd orb spells in combat when not using his sword.

In the ruins of the enclave, the group finds documents speaking of a great source of ancient power protected by a druidic order many miles to the east. Should they fight their way through the unnaturally dangerous forest, slay many druids and their golem protectors, and reach the Great Tree (ideally, the forest would be covered in some sort of Forbiddance effect, with Hurricane-strength winds above the treetops and great magical birds (perhaps a Phoenix or two) soaring above them, to prevent direct access), they'll find the Archdruid of the Enclave protecting (insert artifact of your choice here, preferably something dangerous to use, but powerful enough to be tempting, so they face a serious choice with possible plot hooks arising from it). He will attack them on sight, since they've slaughtered their way through his forest, and put up a good fight of it, shifting into innumerable creatures of all sorts and acting with uncanny alacrity. Should they clearly best him, he'll flee by melding into the ground and vanishing (Master Earth spell, SC).

The mechanics: The Archdruid is a Druid 15//Factotum 8/Master of Many Forms 7, with most of his feats sunk into Font of Inspiration (but also taking Natural Spell and Multiattack). Most turns, he can cast a spell and full attack as a powerful creature of some sort.

Some time later (several sessions and a few levels, ideally), the party is interrupted in their vile works (preferably at a very inconvenient time) by all of these foes, seeking revenge, led by an unfamiliar mage, who seems to harbor some personal grudge against them (Wizard 5/Dweomerkeeper 10//Cleric 15, perhaps). The combination of the group will prove to be extremely devastating - Buffs, battlefield control, and raw damage from the Mage and Paladin, combined with the auras and lockdown of the captain of the guard, combined with the ridiculous power of the druid, all enhanced by the bard, will make the group a near unstoppable force, likely forcing the party to retreat and think of a new way to deal with them.

Really, the specific situations in which each is encountered is immaterial, though. The point is to make a group of individually dangerous good guys that have a strong reason to want the party dead, who could plausibly team up with each other, who synergize well together. The realization that they face a whole group of previous foes is liable to make them more wary of wanton, unrestrained evil, and lead them to be more subtle and cautious. Or maybe not! It's just a thought, really.

[troqdor1316]

I really like all of these ideas...probably going to implement them all at some point. Keep 'em coming!

[mr_odd]

I really like all of these ideas...probably going to implement them all at some point. Keep 'em coming!

You could take a page from video games. Have one BBGG in command of these recurring "mini-bosses" of good guys. When one group dies, bring in the next group of determined adventurers, until it' s time to fight the BBGG.

Also, you don't need to have your PCs only fight good creatures. Set them up against monsters as well, but make sure you have a good reason for doing so.