Sphinx Excerpt

[obryn]

http://dnd.wizards.com/articles/features/excerpt_sphinx

Initial Thoughts:

Awesome art
Lair actions are neat.
Oh joy, a big list of spells :smallsigh: This is by far my least favorite thing from previous editions of D&D, and here it is again, even though "casts cleric spells" isn't the first thing that comes to mind when I think, "Sphinx." And why have Tongues on there, when you could just say, "speaks all languages."
DC 18 is pretty high; hope your fightmans are proficient in Wisdom saves.
Immunity to non-magical weapons again? I don't know if I love that this has been a feature of the last two monsters WotC has previewed. In an edition where magical weapons aren't supposed to be assumed, it seems sloppy.

[Mando Knight]

I liked that they included a riddle, even if the second line kinda gave away the answer...

[CyberThread]

Am really scared of this legendary mechanic , what happens when you get upper levels, then again from what I can tell, their won't be +1 magic weapons or anything.

[HorridElemental]

http://dnd.wizards.com/articles/features/excerpt_sphinx

Initial Thoughts:

Awesome art
Lair actions are neat.
Oh joy, a big list of spells :smallsigh: This is by far my least favorite thing from previous editions of D&D, and here it is again, even though "casts cleric spells" isn't the first thing that comes to mind when I think, "Sphinx." And why have Tongues on there, when you could just say, "speaks all languages."
DC 18 is pretty high; hope your fightmans are proficient in Wisdom saves.
Immunity to non-magical weapons again? I don't know if I love that this has been a feature of the last two monsters WotC has previewed. In an edition where magical weapons aren't supposed to be assumed, it seems sloppy.



I totally agree with you about long spell lists for monsters, there really isn't a need for it.

However, to be fair, I must say that some of the spells are things that will show up while the PCs are around or are very basic.

Cantrips: Easy to remember and Sacred Flame will be the only one actively used in battle or around PCs. Thaumaturgy is something a DM can just throw in without the spell.

1st level:(4): Command is the only spell PCs will see the Sphinx use.
2nd level:(3): Maybe zone of truth will be used? Lesser restoration.. Maybe?
3rd level:(3): Dispel Magic will be seen, tongues however... Not as much.
4th level:(3): Banishment is a maybe but Freedom of Movement will see a lot of playing time depending on the party's actions.
5th level:(2): Flame strike will see action, greater restoration not so much.
6th level:(1): Heroes feast... Probably won't be seen by PCs.

The spells that won't see much action will see action if the party befriends the Sphinx and asks the beast to use the spells and such.

So Sacred Flame, Command, Dispel Magic (party dependent), Freedom of Movement (party dependent), and Flame Strike will come up in battle. All the other stuff can be ignored during battle. This cuts down the list to something like...

At-Will: Sacred Flame
1st level:(4): Command
2nd level:(3):
3rd level:(3): Dispel Magic
4th level:(3): Banishment (depending on plane), Freedom of Movement
5th level:(2): Flame strike
6th level:(1):

Hot damn, at least 7 uses of command per day, not bad, could make a PC do the Hokey Pokey.

Flame Strike 3/day? Nice.

[Sartharina]

I have problem with the sphinx's art - why do they have the face and chest of the animal, instead of human?

[Yorrin]

Umm, why has nobody mentioned the time traveling? Because that's frikkin' sweet! I could design an entire campaign around that one feature!

[CyberThread]

Umm, why has nobody mentioned the time traveling? Because that's frikkin' sweet! I could design an entire campaign around that one feature!


You are all now 1 year olds, and die....


*rock falls on babies*

[Yorrin]

You are all now 1 year olds, and die....


*rock falls on babies*

I was referring to the one after that, where everything in the liar moves forward or backward 10years in time. So many possibilities :smallbiggrin:

[Sartharina]

Something to add to the list of "Things I may No Longer Do":

"May not have a Sphinx turn the party into little kids, then take them to Disneyland"

[HorridElemental]

I have problem with the sphinx's art - why do they have the face and chest of the animal, instead of human?

Because then the face couldn't remind me of Mufasa/Simba?

[akaddk]

Oh joy, a big list of spells :smallsigh: This is by far my least favorite thing from previous editions of D&D, and here it is again, even though "casts cleric spells" isn't the first thing that comes to mind when I think, "Sphinx." And why have Tongues on there, when you could just say, "speaks all languages."
Yeah, this is probably the biggest disappointment for me with this edition. Oh well, spell cards look like they'll be on my DM'ing list of tasks.


Immunity to non-magical weapons again? I don't know if I love that this has been a feature of the last two monsters WotC has previewed. In an edition where magical weapons aren't supposed to be assumed, it seems sloppy.

To be fair, everyone assumes that "magical items aren't assumed" means that everything is built around never having magical items. That's not the case. It's simply that the math isn't balanced around having magical item bonuses so that those bonuses are actually bonuses and not required to balance your character to their level.

[Chambers]

This is the second time in 5e I've seen a spell or effect related to aging the target (don't remember the first). As I recall, that was kinda a thing pre-3e with Haste aging the targets. The large time span of the change (10 years!) means this is effectively a plot device, which isn't necessarily a bad thing. I think it's kinda neat to see monsters have these kinds of powers, though like any plot device they should be use sparingly.

[Sartharina]

Because then the face couldn't remind me of Mufasa/Simba?So fine, they can keep the vaguely-humanized feline faces (Those look better than human faces anyway). But the Gynosphinx should have tits!

[Envyus]

I totally agree with you about long spell lists for monsters, there really isn't a need for it.

However, to be fair, I must say that some of the spells are things that will show up while the PCs are around or are very basic.

Cantrips: Easy to remember and Sacred Flame will be the only one actively used in battle or around PCs. Thaumaturgy is something a DM can just throw in without the spell.

1st level:(4): Command is the only spell PCs will see the Sphinx use.
2nd level:(3): Maybe zone of truth will be used? Lesser restoration.. Maybe?
3rd level:(3): Dispel Magic will be seen, tongues however... Not as much.
4th level:(3): Banishment is a maybe but Freedom of Movement will see a lot of playing time depending on the party's actions.
5th level:(2): Flame strike will see action, greater restoration not so much.
6th level:(1): Heroes feast... Probably won't be seen by PCs.

The spells that won't see much action will see action if the party befriends the Sphinx and asks the beast to use the spells and such.

So Sacred Flame, Command, Dispel Magic (party dependent), Freedom of Movement (party dependent), and Flame Strike will come up in battle. All the other stuff can be ignored during battle. This cuts down the list to something like...

At-Will: Sacred Flame
1st level:(4): Command
2nd level:(3):
3rd level:(3): Dispel Magic
4th level:(3): Banishment (depending on plane), Freedom of Movement
5th level:(2): Flame strike
6th level:(1):

Hot damn, at least 7 uses of command per day, not bad, could make a PC do the Hokey Pokey.

Flame Strike 3/day? Nice.

Heroes feast is stated to be a reward for people that complete it's quests.

[HorridElemental]

Heroes feast is stated to be a reward for people that complete it's quests.

Yes however outside of combat you have enough time to have as big of a spell list as you want. The problem with big spell lists comes while you are on the clock so to speak.

Besides, mists PCs would rather kill the thing than answer a question.

[warty goblin]

But the Gynosphinx should have tits!
You always say what I'm thinking, but lack the backbone to say. Thank you.

[JRutterbush]

Spells:
Let's not forget that, as a legendary creature, you're not going to just be whipping the sphinx out for a random encounter (unless you're really stretching for something). This is something you plan to put in your game. So of course you'll go over the creature's stats before actually using it, which means you'll already be familiar with the spells on its list before it ever comes into play. Jot down a note or two if you have to, but chances are you won't have to be looking up a bunch of spells in-game. Or, if you do, it's your own fault for not looking over the capabilities of the super-powerful monster you put into your adventure.

[akaddk]

This is something you plan to put in your game.

Actually, I'm a big fan of random creature encounter tables.

[AuraTwilight]

Can someone help me with what "On initiative 20 (losing all initiative ties)" means? I'm having trouble interpreting the language.

[archaeo]

Can someone help me with what "On initiative 20 (losing all initiative ties)" means? I'm having trouble interpreting the language.

Imagine that the Lair effects are another "monster" that always rolls 20 on initiative. If any other player(s) get(s) a 20 while rolling initiative, the Lair effect goes last.

[SiuiS]

http://dnd.wizards.com/articles/features/excerpt_sphinx

Initial Thoughts:

Awesome art
Lair actions are neat.
Oh joy, a big list of spells :smallsigh: This is by far my least favorite thing from previous editions of D&D, and here it is again, even though "casts cleric spells" isn't the first thing that comes to mind when I think, "Sphinx." And why have Tongues on there, when you could just say, "speaks all languages."
DC 18 is pretty high; hope your fightmans are proficient in Wisdom saves.
Immunity to non-magical weapons again? I don't know if I love that this has been a feature of the last two monsters WotC has previewed. In an edition where magical weapons aren't supposed to be assumed, it seems sloppy.


Spells: yeah. Tongues is handy, I feel, just the right amount of system engagement involved. But yes. Spell lists. Sloppy.

Magic weapons: the item may not be a thing so common but that just means things work as in fiction: either the spell to magic up items for a while becomes a plot point, or the one or two party members with weapons engage the beast while everyone else runs interference. That's good, given bound accuracy; "cannot hurt without magic" isn't as much of an obstacle anymore. In theory.


I have problem with the sphinx's art - why do they have the face and chest of the animal, instead of human?

They've slowly morphed. 3e had weird, breasted catwomen, for example. But a loss indeed. I miss the old art.


Something to add to the list of "Things I may No Longer Do":

"May not have a Sphinx turn the party into little kids, then take them to Disneyland"

That sounds amazing. Run it!

[AuraTwilight]

Imagine that the Lair effects are another "monster" that always rolls 20 on initiative. If any other player(s) get(s) a 20 while rolling initiative, the Lair effect goes last.


Haha, wow, Lair Actions are AWESOME.

[JRutterbush]

Actually, I'm a big fan of random creature encounter tables.
Sure, but a sphinx is not something that should be on a random encounter table. It's a legendary creature, those don't just pop in for a quick encounter on the way from Town A to Town B. There are lairs, regional effects to properly foreshadow, rumors and legends to hear around town. If you want just some random monster for a random fight because you randomly rolled 1-10 on a percentile, the sphinx is probably not the monster for you.

[1of3]

I suppose sphinx lairs will become points of pilgrimage. Provides youth for the worthy.


This is the second time in 5e I've seen a spell or effect related to aging the target (don't remember the first).

A wizard (specialising in Transmutation) did it.

[akaddk]

Sure, but a sphinx is not something that should be on a random encounter table.

I'm sorry, but you keep making these gross assumptions that everyone should play as you suggest as if playing any other way is "badwrongfun".

My encounter tables have Ancient Wyrm Red Dragons on them... for 1st-level characters.

The simple fact of the matter is that I find random fun. Randomness creates all sorts of interesting twists and turns that even the DM can't expect or predict. And I like to go with that flow. Sure, the ancient dragon will kill the PC's in the first round, but not every encounter has to be a combat and nor does it have to be balanced. Some of the whackiest, nonsensical, completely random combinations of factors have, for me, made the best and most fun sessions.

[Sidmen]

I'm sorry, but you keep making these gross assumptions that everyone should play as you suggest as if playing any other way is "badwrongfun".

My encounter tables have Ancient Wyrm Red Dragons on them... for 1st-level characters.
I'm not saying it's badwrongfun, but it certainly shouldn't be the default assumption for the game. If you want to have custom lists that include encounters with Sphinxes on their way to launder their headdresses or whatever - that's cool. But I don't think too much effort should be put into accommodating that kind of thing.

The default assumption should be that Ancient Red Dragons are major story elements, not something you casually and randomly bump into when trying to make your way to the tavern.

[akaddk]

I'm not saying it's badwrongfun...
Really? Because everything you say after that sure sounds like it, especially when combined with the snarky tone.


...but it certainly shouldn't be the default assumption for the game. If you want to have custom lists that include encounters with Sphinxes on their way to launder their headdresses or whatever - that's cool. But I don't think too much effort should be put into accommodating that kind of thing.

The default assumption should be that Ancient Red Dragons are major story elements, not something you casually and randomly bump into when trying to make your way to the tavern.

[Sidmen]

Really? Because everything you say after that sure sounds like it, especially when combined with the snarky tone.

Re-read it without imparting a snarky tone. There was none intended. There was supposed to be some humor, but it was meant to lighten the mood a bit, not be a jab at you.

[the_other_gm]

one thing was mentioned in another forum:

"say, a falling tree. Is it immune because it's not a magical weapon, or is it vulnerable because it's not a weapon at all?

If a giant picks it up, does it become a weapon?"

Personally, i took "Damage Immunities: bludgeoning, piercing, and slashing from nonmagical weapons" to be long-form for "immune to non-magical sources of damage" as otherwise you get weird scenarios of which a tree falling on a sphinx hurts it, but once it gets picked up by a giant the sphinx is immune to the drubbing it'll try to give.

[eastmabl]

Am really scared of this legendary mechanic , what happens when you get upper levels, then again from what I can tell, their won't be +1 magic weapons or anything.

Having run through Lost Mine of Phandelver, +1 weapons are there, and you'll get them reasonably early. Their scarcity is not to the players themselves, but the number available to the players themselves.

The difference between 3.5 and now is that you will no longer carry around a golf bag full of +1 weapons.

[Person_Man]

My guess is that they're making Resistance/Immunity common in reaction to the loud and frequent Bounded Accuracy criticism that a moderate number of commoners and house cats can kill high level monsters.

The problem with this is that it makes magic weapons mandatory-ish, when they're supposed to be optional. A DM can always hand wave the Resistances/Immunities away, but if the assumption that players will have +X bonuses are baked into the stats, then you also have to rejigger them, and Challenge Rating becomes even more useless.

It also means that if the DM is using magic weapons, you have to use the magic weapons the DM gives you. So if you're a Rogue that wants to use Unarmed Strike you're screwed. If you depend on a Feat and/or class ability that requires a Heavy weapon and the DM gives you a +1 longsword you're screwed. If you want to do something cool like knocking down a giant tree to fall onto the Sphinx or luring them into a falling rock trap, it's useless against them. And so on.

Also, Resistances and Immunities and Vulnerabilities were actually pretty common in 2E. (Or at least the 2E games I grew up playing). This was actually a very, very big deal, for fighting some enemies. The metagame of it strongly encouraged you to carry a Magic Blunt weapon, a Magic Piercing Weapon, AND a Magic Slashing weapon, and in some ways screwed Fighters (whose Specialization only applied to a single weapon - though on the plus side they had access to the best magic weapons and didn't have a limit on how many they could carry).

[HorridElemental]

New rule.

Immune to non-magical weapons used by creatures lower than X level or X CR.

Magic items no longer mandatory but commoners can't kill it without magic.

[IAmTehDave]

I'm sorry, but you keep making these gross assumptions that everyone should play as you suggest as if playing any other way is "badwrongfun".

My encounter tables have Ancient Wyrm Red Dragons on them... for 1st-level characters.

And your characters will be facing an Ancient Wyrm Red Dragon. But it won't be in its lair, so it doesn't get lair effects.

Same for the Sphynx. One thing people seem to be missing is that the monster itself isn't doing the time effects, that's a property of its lair. It's still Legendary so it gets Legendary actions, but outside of its lair you don't have to worry about the whole Plane Shift or Time effect. (Protip: Blow up the lair, fight the creature outside, no more lair effects!)

If you're fighting the Lair, that's because you, as an adventuring group, went into the creature's lair to fight the creature. And you will know that, because of the regional effects. Otherwise, your DM is probably screwing with you.

I wonder if the CR of these legendary monsters includes the lair, and what the CR should be if fought outside of their lairs.

[akaddk]

I wonder if the CR of these legendary monsters includes the lair, and what the CR should be if fought outside of their lairs.

Well the excerpt of the Sphinx was a direct page from the MM and I didn't see it mentioned anywhere. I would hope it isn't. I think the CR is based on the challenge being either to somehow find a way to fight it outside its lair. And if you can't... well... then you probably deserve the lair effects :D

[Sartharina]

They've slowly morphed. 3e had weird, breasted catwomen, for example. But a loss indeed. I miss the old art.
Sphinx have always had the head and breasts of a woman. The only thing it lost was the serpent tail.

[HorridElemental]

All this talk of Sphinx and art makes it hard to get this out of my head...

http://cdn-media.hollywood.com/images/l/sphinx-venture-bros.jpg