Paladin Oaths

[Angelalex242]

Do any of the oaths stand out as clear winners over the rest? My paladin hasn't hit 3rd level yet, so...

[Angelalex242]

Bumping. Cause 164 views and no answer is something I find irritating.

[andhaira]

All 3 are good. The Paladin is clearly an all around winner class this time, a lot fo thought and love was put into it. It's spell list is awesome, not only mostly unique spells, but most are bonus actions and require verbal components.

Anyhow, back to the Oaths. I would say the Oath of the Ancients slightly edges out behind the other 2 until level 20, when it is has the strongest of the Oaths final 20th level powers. At earlier levels though, it depends on your campaign. Most games have way more undead enemies than Fey enemies, so your turning (Turn the Faithless) may not be as useful. Aura of Warding though is awesome. Undying sentinel is ok, though being a level 15 ability it should offer more stuff, say an auto heal when you are reduced to 0 hp instead of simply coming back with 1 hp. The OFtA also has a great spell list. Given the way spellcasting work this edition, bonus spell lists are very very important. Basically, your bonus spells are added to your Pally's list pf prepared spells, so you can always cast them whenever you want, as long as you have slots to burn. So at 5th level your Paladin can teleport around with Misty Step. At 13th he can cast Stoneskin and Ice Storm, both excellent and something no other Paladin can do.


I personally prefer the Aura of Devotion, as Sacred Weapon can be quite useful at lower/mid tier levels against a BBEG type enemy. This Oath could have used a better spell list though, as the lower level spells are nothing to write home about. The other Oaths have far superior spell lists.

Hope that helps! :)

[EvilAnagram]

It's a toss-up, really. Flavor-wise, do you want a paladin, a warden, or an avenger? Mechanically, none of them dwarf the others.

[Angelalex242]

I did notice Avenger came with Haste, which is nice.

I would honestly default to Devotion, but if it was weaker then the other choices, I might've avoided it for Avenger.

[Infernally Clay]

I actually think the basic Oath of Devotion is better for lower levels.

Sacred Weapon is a Cha mod bonus to attack rolls for an entire battle and Channel Divinity only requires a short rest to use again, so a 5th level Oath of Devotion Paladin will get to attack twice per round with a pretty sizeable accuracy bonus basically every battle. They shouldn't really ever miss. In comparison, the Oath of the Ancients only allows you to remotely grapple an enemy, which is pretty lame, and the Oath of Vengeance lets you roll your attack twice and pick the better result... Except you can only pick one enemy per encounter to do it against. That's powerful against "boss" enemies and higher level battles, yes, since a 5th level Oath of Vengeance Paladin will essentially get to roll their attack four times per round (allowing for much more frequent critical hits), but it's not as useful as Sacred Weapon in lower level battles.

As for their 7th and 15th level benefits... Immunity to charm is better than moving up to half your speed after an opportunity attack, but I actually really like the Oath of the Ancients' Aura of Warding. Having resistance against spell damage is pretty huge. The Oath of the Ancients wins again as far as the 15th level benefit is concerned - not dying once per day is far better than what the other two Oaths provide. The capstones are kind of weird, though. Holy Nimbus and Elder Champion last a minute but Avenging Angel lasts an hour. Avenging Angel also has more power and utility, since flight that's twice as fast as a normal character's land speed is really useful, while Elder Champion is pretty awesome overall. Holy Nimbus is kinda lame, though, since all it really does is automatic damage.

So it seems that the Oath of Devotion is the best as far as Channel Divinity is concerned, but the Oath of the Ancients has much more powerful benefits at higher levels and Oath of Vengeance is probably the best if you actually hit 20th level. Gaining flight for an hour is one thing, but gaining advantage on attack rolls against any enemy within 30ft that fails their Wisdom saving throw is pretty huge.

tl;dr:
Low levels - Oath of Devotion
Medium levels - Oath of the Ancients
High levels - Oath of Vengeance

[andhaira]

Actually in my personal opinion, while the Avenger has the coolest 20th level ability (become a pseudo angel) the other two have better ones. They will be more useful in a tough fight, even if they can be used for 10 rounds 1/day. Elder Champion especially is quite powerful, as it enhances the Paladin's spell casting even more. And their 7th level ability is king. Magic resistance level 7-20 for you and anyone near you? Imagine combining that with the Mage Slayer feat...

However, the Avenger gets the Hunter's Mark Spell, which otherwise is a Ranger only spell. This is HUGE. At level 3-20 the Paladin can elect to gain an extra 1d6 damage on an opponent at will. When combined with Improved Divine Smite (+1d8 damage per attack) you can imagine the damage a Pally can dish out. If he chooses to alpha strike on top of that (smite + spell smite in the same round) well, no one can out damage him for that round, not even spell casters.

The Oath of Devotion finally, has the best lower tier ability, which gives you CHA bonus to attack rolls. With Bounded Accuracy, this is indeed a huge advantage, even though it can only be used 1/short rest (while the Hunters Mark spell can be used as many times as you have spell slots)

In the end go with whatever suits your character concept better. They are all equally powerful, just that their level of power varies at various levels.

[Chaosvii7]

Gonna say the oath of Ancients gets you the best mileage. Spellcasting is paramount once again, but not as powerful. A strong example of this is in fact this very oath - a Mage Slayer Paladin of Ancients isn't going to slouch when you're trying to toss spells at him. I would even argue that adding Gnome on top of that would just be overkill - Advantage on all mental saves against spells, CHA mod to all saving throws in general, an aura that grants resistance to damage from spells, and when you're within 5 feet of a target they're at disadvantage to cast spells from Mage Slayer, and then when you pick up your capstone that'll also make your spells harder to resist.

[Angelalex242]

With mage slayer, won't any spellcaster with any common sense at all just take a 5 foot step away before casting?

[hawklost]

With mage slayer, won't any spellcaster with any common sense at all just take a 5 foot step away before casting?

Sure, what 5' step are we talking about though? Is this his Disengage action Or part of his Move that provokes OAs?

[Chaosvii7]

Sure, what 5' step are we talking about though? Is this his Disengage action Or part of his Move that provokes OAs?

Exactly. They either can't cast spells or they risk getting the crud beaten out of them, followed by them potentially messing up their casting. One of the benefits of 5e's combat system with regards to denying spellcasters from just hopping back and blowing your mind up.

[Angelalex242]

Oath of the Ancients appears to be the clear winner, and it's meant to be combined with Mageslayer, it seems.

My human paladin took heavy armor first...damage reduction is king after all. At level 4, do I get Shield master first, or mage slayer first? (The other is for level 8, naturally)

[hawklost]

Oath of the Ancients appears to be the clear winner, and it's meant to be combined with Mageslayer, it seems.

My human paladin took heavy armor first...damage reduction is king after all. At level 4, do I get Shield master first, or mage slayer first? (The other is for level 8, naturally)

I think that option would depend on how you see the story playing out. Do you feel you will fight enough Casters in the 4 levels between 4 and 8 to need Mage Slayer or do you feel that you will fight more mundane enemies to make Shield Master worth more?

[andhaira]

Exactly. In fact, why don't you post up your complete build, including race, attributes, fighting style you plan to get at level 2, etc so we get a better idea.

Since the Oath of the Ancients magic resistance related stuff kicks in at level 7+, I would say take Mage Slayer at level 4 to hold you over until then, if your concept is of a character who is opposed to evil magic. Keep in mind Mage Slayer works on any 'creature' that casts spells, not just humanoid spellcasters. So it could work on a Pit Fiend for example. (unless if innate spellcasting feature of monsters specifically states something opposing this, which I believe it does not)

Shield Master will stack beautifully with Mage Slayer, I must say. :smallcool:

[Angelalex242]

He starts at level 1....

Human Noble Heavy Armor Master Paladin.

Str 14 (+2)=16
Dex 10
Con 14
Int 10
Wis 10
Cha 15 (+1) =16

He has nothing more complicated then that at the moment.

Persuasion, History Insight, Religion, Athletics (as the human bonus)

Fighting style, I thought to simply get +1 AC. Heavy armor wearer, naturally, so I'll want Full Plate as quickly as I can get the GM to dropping enough gold for me to buy it. Mithril Plate from the Test editions is even better, of course.

[Suichimo]

He starts at level 1....

Human Noble Heavy Armor Master Paladin.

Str 14 (+2)=16
Dex 10
Con 14
Int 10
Wis 10
Cha 15 (+1) =16

He has nothing more complicated then that at the moment.

Persuasion, History Insight, Religion, Athletics (as the human bonus)

Fighting style, I thought to simply get +1 AC. Heavy armor wearer, naturally, so I'll want Full Plate as quickly as I can get the GM to dropping enough gold for me to buy it. Mithril Plate from the Test editions is even better, of course.

I'm going to be playing this when my group gets everyone's time slots lined up for Hoard of the Dragon Queen:

Mountain Dwarf Paladin of the Ancients
Str 16(14+2)
Dex 7
Con 16(14+2)
Int 13
Wis 13
Cha 18

Athletics, History, Perception, Persuasion.

I'm going to reflavor the abilities to be mineral based rather than strictly nature, the entangling ability will use rocks to trap the opponents' feet instead. My character will basically be a scion of the planet and given the task to protect it by Ulaa.

[Angelalex242]

That's either dice roll or a HUGE point buy...

[Suichimo]

That's either dice roll or a HUGE point buy...

4d6, drop lowest

The recommended stat generation method, actually.

[Sylian]

However, the Avenger gets the Hunter's Mark Spell, which otherwise is a Ranger only spell. This is HUGE. At level 3-20 the Paladin can elect to gain an extra 1d6 damage on an opponent at will. When combined with Improved Divine Smite (+1d8 damage per attack) you can imagine the damage a Pally can dish out. If he chooses to alpha strike on top of that (smite + spell smite in the same round) well, no one can out damage him for that round, not even spell casters.Emphasis mine.

A Paladin can't actually do that, though, since Hunter's Mark requires concentration, and so do the Smite spells. Once they cast the Smite spell, they lose concentration on the Hunter's Mark spell.

[DrLemniscate]

4d6, drop lowest

The recommended stat generation method, actually.

It's only listed first in the PHB for tradition.

The recommended method is actually the 27 Point Buy. It's required for the Adventurer's League.

It gets you worse stats in general than 4d6,drop 1, but it lets you take your character to almost any game regardless of DM. Otherwise they would have to take you on your word that you rolled those awesome stats and your old DM definitely saw them.

[DrLemniscate]

Oath of Vengeance surprisingly doesn't offer too many combat perks. It sounds like it would, but they clearly didn't want there to be one 'best' option. I guess the main attraction for this Oath are the loose moral guidelines.

Oath of Devotion is appealing, just for the 24/7 Protection from Good and Evil.

[Hytheter]

Oath of Vengeance surprisingly doesn't offer too many combat perks. It sounds like it would, but they clearly didn't want there to be one 'best' option. I guess the main attraction for this Oath are the loose moral guidelines.

Oath of Devotion is appealing, just for the 24/7 Protection from Good and Evil.

How is it 24/7? It only lasts 10 minutes and you only get a maximum of 4 level 1 spell slots. :/

[Sylian]

How is it 24/7? It only lasts 10 minutes and you only get a maximum of 4 level 1 spell slots. :/Level 15 ability.

[Socko525]

How is it 24/7? It only lasts 10 minutes and you only get a maximum of 4 level 1 spell slots. :/

"Purity of Spirit
Beginning at 15th level, you are always under the effects of a protection from evil and good spell."

[Hytheter]

Level 15 ability.

Oh whoops I straight up missed that sorry

[Person_Man]

Its also worth noting that Smite is fueled by spell slots, which scale with any full caster class. So you're likely to see a lot of Paladin 2 or 5 or 6/Bard or Warlock X. (And maybe Cleric. I can't remember how Channel Divinity stacks or doesn't).

[Raxxius]

Its also worth noting that Smite is fueled by spell slots, which scale with any full caster class. So you're likely to see a lot of Paladin 2 or 5 or 6/Bard or Warlock X. (And maybe Cleric. I can't remember how Channel Divinity stacks or doesn't).

My first character is a variant human oath of ancients/faylock.

Dice roll was insanely kind to me so he's a bit of a monster, unlike my second character who is a real whelp of a half orc.

[JamesT]

Oath of Vengeance surprisingly doesn't offer too many combat perks. It sounds like it would, but they clearly didn't want there to be one 'best' option. I guess the main attraction for this Oath are the loose moral guidelines.

Oath of Devotion is appealing, just for the 24/7 Protection from Good and Evil.

I'd say the main attaction of Oath of Vengeance is the Channel Divinity ability to get combat advantage on one foe and the incredible spell selection. I think it's the best of the three from a pure damage focus, but the other two oaths provide perks as well that are very respectable.

[maxmcgloin]

Has there been any attempt to address the duplication of spells for the Oath of Devotion spell list?

[coredump]

Has there been any attempt to address the duplication of spells for the Oath of Devotion spell list?

Not sure I understand what needs to be addressed....

[Haruki-kun]

The Winged Mod: Thread Necromancy.