long range snipe

[With a box]

rules for it..
1. no useing gate as window(too obvious answer..)
2. lt must be sniping, not nuclear bomb. AoE must be smaller then 1mile.
3. your can summon or mind control things, but they also cannot go in terget closer then 5mile
4. target is 1lv commoner.

[Zombulian]

Inb4 Tippy Grey Elf Invisible Fist Decisive Strike Martial Monk 2/Factotum 18 with Font of Inspiration as many times as possible.

edit: Missed the "spell" part. Ignore me.

[Tohsaka Rin]

Targeteer/Craigtop Archer

Have a friendly cast True Strike on you.

If Psionics are an option, then use Fell Shot to make your attack as a touch attack.

???

Profit!

[Fuzzy McCoy]

If the target's a level one commoner, then really a level 2 mystic ranger or level 6 ranger can pull it off. It takes two rounds.

Necessary things

Wis of 12
Biggest masterwork bow you can wield with the longest range, with as much strength damage as you can pile on without sacrificing dex.
Access to spell compendium


Round 1: cast hunter's mercy
Round 2: cast guided shot, fire.

If you hit (probable, considering your target AC is most likely 10), you auto crit, which should kill pretty much any level 1 commoner.

[Segev]

I'm not sure I'm parsing this correctly. What is the 5-mile limitation? Is that the minimum range from which the shot is to be taken?

If it's not, then a simple wizard or sorcerer with a heavy crossbow at 600 feet, using Invisibility or other magic to hide, and True Strike. 1d10 will almost certainly kill a 1st level commoner, and with +10 to +12 to hit (minimum), the chances of missing are reduced to the proverbial nat 1. (600 feet is 5 range increments, so -10 to hit.)

[Extra Anchovies]

Guided Shot is a must, of course.

Longest range increment I've found is the Great Crossbow from Sword and Fist, at 150 feet. However, Races of Stone has a weapon of the same name with a range increment of 120 feet. Since Races of Stone is post-3.5 and Sword and Fist is pre-3.5, I think the RoS Great Crossbow supersedes the one in SaF.

That leaves us with the Composite Greatbow (Complete Warrior) as our longest-increment weapon, at 130 feet. With Far Shot or the distance ability, that goes up to 195. Not too shabby, considering that with Guided Shot you gain a range of almost 2,000 feet without any penalties when using Guided Shot (or Near Horizon, a second-level Ranger or Assassin spell from Complete Mage that does the same thing for three rounds).

Since NPC class characters don't get max HP at level 1, the commoner (if restricted to the PHB races) could have no more than 9 HP (base 2, +4 Con, +3 Toughness), or 10 if they're Dwarf or Gnome. Using the Elite Array they could have 7 or 8 HP, and assuming all 10s (before racial modifiers) they'd have 5 or 6. The most likely scenario, though, is that they have the ability score array normally used for NPC class characters (13/12/11/10/9/8 in any order), which would give them a maximum of 6 or 7. Let's aim for 11 damage, just to be sure.

Composite Greatbow deals a d10, and triples on a critical. Hunter's Mercy lets us auto-hit and threaten a critical; a natural 1 on a confirmation roll means its a normal hit, so let's take Victor's Luck (Complete Scoundrel), which allows a critical threat confirmation reroll at the cost of a luck reroll. That knocks the chance of not scoring a critical down to 1 in 400. Since we've taken one luck feat, we might as well take another. Fortuitous Strike allows us to expend one luck reroll to reroll damage, or two to reroll an attack. We now qualify for Dumb Luck, which allows the use of a luck reroll to treat a natural 1 on attack as a natural 20 instead. This entirely eliminates the chance of not scoring a critical hit.

Now on to damage. Here's a table for damage dealt by a critical, based on d10 roll and Strength bonus.


Strength Bonus->
0
1
2
3


d10 Roll
-
-
-
-


1
3
6
9
12


2
6
9
12
15


3
9
12
15
18


4
12
15
18
21


So if we roll 4 or better, and/or have strength of 16 or better, we get the kill. We can reroll damage as a swift action, too, so let's assume we don't get our intended result of 11 or better. Having a strength modifier of 0, 1, or 2 leaves us with respective 30%, 20%, and 10% chances to not get the kill. After one reroll, this is 9%, 4%, and 1% respectively. Any other bonuses to damage (favored enemy, weapon specialization, magic, etc) can be factored into the table as an increase in Strength.

[Jormengand]

DWK truenamer 14, I should point out, can hit anyone, anywhere, ignoring concealment, even if he can't see them.

One does this by using the DWK to acquire Distant Shot (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/epic/feats.htm#distantShot) (because DWKs can get epic feats as they count as true dragons). You should by level 14 have enough feats and enough DEX to do this. (EDIT: Sorry, you need to be level 17 to get the spot ranks without cheating gratuitously.)

The truenamer then utters Sensory Focus, and acquires blindsight. Not blindsight 30 ft. Not blindsight 60 ft. Nope, bona fide unlimited range blindsight.

But what about that pesky concealment? Utter archer's eye on yourself, and you ignore concealment. Even total concealment. So yes, you can shoot through walls, and no, there's not a penalty for doing so.

Now, once our truenamer hits level 18 through taking pot-shots at commoners, a wizard gets involved, and decides to make all the world's commoners ethereal. No matter, because we can utter ether reforged on ourselves. Our weapons and armour now affect ethereal and material creatures. Forever. The duration isn't even permanent, it's instantaneous - that means it can't be dispelled (except, of course, by a truenamer), not that it only actually lasts for an instant (consider True Creation). Oh, and I make myself ethereal too. Instantaneously. Then I keep shooting commoners.

Incidentally, this does mean that if I take the Throw Anything feat, I can chuck a 15-lb orc double-axe to the other end of the universe without even really trying. While I'm on another plane. And hit my target. Pre-epic. With 4 strength.

Thanks, WotC!

[Frostthehero]

I think the problem here is that you want to take a 5 mile shot. This would be a feat using the greatest sniper rifle of today, let alone a crossbow or normal bow. I see no reason that any spell would allow you to do this, regardless of how many enhancements it was given. Unless you roll a natural 20, you are guaranteed to miss.

[KingAtomsk]

Love's Pain (http://dndtools.eu/spells/book-of-vile-darkness--37/loves-pain--184/)

Kidnap their significant other and then kill them from literally anywhere in the multiverse.

[Jormengand]

Love's Pain (http://dndtools.eu/spells/book-of-vile-darkness--37/loves-pain--184/)

Kidnap their significant other and then kill them from literally anywhere in the multiverse.

That requires that they have a SO, or you have mind rape. Also, the DM is specifically stated to choose who Love's Pain actually hits.

[geekintheground]

Inb4 Tippy Grey Elf Invisible Fist Decisive Strike Martial Monk 2/Factotum 18 with Font of Inspiration as many times as possible.

edit: Missed the "spell" part. Ignore me.

actually, tippy has solved this one with his "bird of prey" (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?286818-Bird-of-Prey-(Tippy-s-Awesome-Flying-Sniper)). its why he's the emperor i guess

[Zombulian]

actually, tippy has solved this one with his "bird of prey" (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?286818-Bird-of-Prey-(Tippy-s-Awesome-Flying-Sniper)). its why he's the emperor i guess

Right I forgot he did that one. Before his Bird of Prey build, what I said was what he said for anyone who wanted to be an assassin of some sort.

[HaikenEdge]

What are we even trying to achieve here? The task seems incredibly vague.

[KingAtomsk]

That requires that they have a SO, or you have mind rape. Also, the DM is specifically stated to choose who Love's Pain actually hits.

Play the long game. Elaborately set up your target on a date with someone you know you'll be able to kidnap later, and then intervene behind the scenes to make sure they hit it off perfectly. Then systematically kill everyone else the date loves so that your target will be the only one left and you'll know that Love's Pain will work.

All it takes is your imagination.

[WhamBamSam]

DWK truenamer 14, I should point out, can hit anyone, anywhere, ignoring concealment, even if he can't see them.

One does this by using the DWK to acquire Distant Shot (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/epic/feats.htm#distantShot) (because DWKs can get epic feats as they count as true dragons). You should by level 14 have enough feats and enough DEX to do this. (EDIT: Sorry, you need to be level 17 to get the spot ranks without cheating gratuitously.)

The truenamer then utters Sensory Focus, and acquires blindsight. Not blindsight 30 ft. Not blindsight 60 ft. Nope, bona fide unlimited range blindsight.

But what about that pesky concealment? Utter archer's eye on yourself, and you ignore concealment. Even total concealment. So yes, you can shoot through walls, and no, there's not a penalty for doing so.

Now, once our truenamer hits level 18 through taking pot-shots at commoners, a wizard gets involved, and decides to make all the world's commoners ethereal. No matter, because we can utter ether reforged on ourselves. Our weapons and armour now affect ethereal and material creatures. Forever. The duration isn't even permanent, it's instantaneous - that means it can't be dispelled (except, of course, by a truenamer), not that it only actually lasts for an instant (consider True Creation). Oh, and I make myself ethereal too. Instantaneously. Then I keep shooting commoners.

Incidentally, this does mean that if I take the Throw Anything feat, I can chuck a 15-lb orc double-axe to the other end of the universe without even really trying. While I'm on another plane. And hit my target. Pre-epic. With 4 strength.

Thanks, WotC!Taking Epic feats only requires they be an Old or older Dragon. Venerable Dragonwrought Kobolds can do it regardless of your stance on the True Dragon argument.

Distant Shot requires line of sight. So you can't do it from across planes or from anywhere that you can't make the spot check from, and probably can't get around total concealment, even with things that would ordinarily let you do so (though that depends on how exactly Archer's Eye is worded). Throw Anything does indeed work though.

I think the kobold cheese build that I came up in the last sniper thread I got involved in was a Decisive Strike Monk/Dragonblood Sorcerer/JPM/Bloodstorm Blade using the maneuver variant Wyrm of War to double dip initiator levels on Jade Phoenix Mage so he could pick up Strike of Perfect Clarity through Martial Study. His MO was decisive striking a pet undead, then using Celerity to make a Distant Shot Strike of Perfect Clarity for +200 damage (there was some other bonus damage stuff too, but I can't remember what exactly it was, also getting all the necessary feats at the right times involved a lot of Chaos Shuffling).

But if we're just trying to kill commoners, we probably don't need that much cheese. A regular everyday Venerable Dragonwrought Kobold with Distant Shot will do. :smalltongue:

[Piggy Knowles]

DWK truenamer 14, I should point out, can hit anyone, anywhere, ignoring concealment, even if he can't see them.

One does this by using the DWK to acquire Distant Shot (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/epic/feats.htm#distantShot) (because DWKs can get epic feats as they count as true dragons). You should by level 14 have enough feats and enough DEX to do this. (EDIT: Sorry, you need to be level 17 to get the spot ranks without cheating gratuitously.)

The truenamer then utters Sensory Focus, and acquires blindsight. Not blindsight 30 ft. Not blindsight 60 ft. Nope, bona fide unlimited range blindsight.

But what about that pesky concealment? Utter archer's eye on yourself, and you ignore concealment. Even total concealment. So yes, you can shoot through walls, and no, there's not a penalty for doing so.


Doesn't work for a few reasons, unfortunately.

First, Blindsight requires that you have line of effect in order to discern an object or creature. So, unlimited blindsight still won't let you see through a wall.

Second, the issue with firing through a wall isn't just concealment (although that's part of it, as you can't make a ranged attack against someone with total concealment). It also has total cover, and you can't make an attack against something with total cover.

Finally, blindsight's description specifically says it works out to the range specified in the ability description. With no range specified, one could just as easily argue that it works to no range as to unlimited range. You're left in a gray area, and assuming the "unlimited range" option isn't actually RAW any more than assuming it just doesn't function at all.

[Jormengand]

Distant Shot requires line of sight. So you can't do it from across planes or from anywhere that you can't make the spot check from, and probably can't get around total concealment, even with things that would ordinarily let you do so (though that depends on how exactly Archer's Eye is worded). Throw Anything does indeed work though.

I can do it across planes because I can see the prime material. I have blindsense, so I just have to have line of effect. I can get around total concealment because archers' eye just ignores all conealment when I have a ranged weapon, and if I Throw Anything then orc double axes are ranged weapons.

It also just occurred to me that I can still throw an orc axe through a hole too small for it to fit.


Finally, blindsight's description specifically says it works out to the range specified in the ability description. With no range specified, one could just as easily argue that it works to no range as to unlimited range. You're left in a gray area, and assuming the "unlimited range" option isn't actually RAW any more than assuming it just doesn't function at all.

The utterance specifically says that it gives blindsight, and if your blindsight doesn't do anything then you don't have blindsight, because if you had blindsight it would do something.

[StoneCipher]

Archer's eye says nothing about giving line of effect for blindsight, only that you can ignore concealment.

Also, blindsight rules state that you USUALLY do not have to make spot or listen checks within range, but range is normally defined, alluding to a need for spot and listen in cases of extreme distance.

In addition, blindsight does not work in a vacuum so you cant throw it through space.

[Malroth]

Pay a burglular or con man to get an object belonging to the target.
Cast Scrying on the target untill you get one that allows vision spells to penetrate.
Cast a Snow casting,Flash frost,fell drain Detect magic through the sensor to deal no save cold damage and negative levels to whoever is on the other end of your scrying sensor.

[Jormengand]

Archer's eye says nothing about giving line of effect for blindsight, only that you can ignore concealment.

Okay, fine, but I can still throw things through walls if there's even the tiniest of gaps in them. And if I want to be really cheesy, I can point out that I probably have a subatomic line of effect through the wall due to how big atoms are and how little stuff is in them.


Also, blindsight rules state that you USUALLY do not have to make spot or listen checks within range, but range is normally defined, alluding to a need for spot and listen in cases of extreme distance.

Which is not actually defined anywhere in the rules, and presumably is in case a monster has blindsight, but the description says specifically that it has to make listen checks anyway.


In addition, blindsight does not work in a vacuum so you cant throw it through space.

True enough, but I can still throw it quite a ways, across the ethereal into the other end of the prime material, even if not into space.


Pay a burglular or con man to get an object belonging to the target.

No-one's allowed within 5 miles of him, though.

[Piggy Knowles]

Under the rules for cover:


Total Cover
If you don’t have line of effect to your target he is considered to have total cover from you. You can’t make an attack against a target that has total cover.


...which brings us to the rules for line of effect:


Line of Effect
A line of effect is a straight, unblocked path that indicates what a spell can affect. A line of effect is canceled by a solid barrier...

An otherwise solid barrier with a hole of at least 1 square foot through it does not block a spell’s line of effect. Such an opening means that the 5-foot length of wall containing the hole is no longer considered a barrier for purposes of a spell’s line of effect.

Where are you getting that any hole, even the subatomic space between particles, is enough for you to gain LoE? Archer's eye might ignore concealment, but if someone still has total cover, you'll need another way to bypass it.

[Tohsaka Rin]

With an ability from Craigtop Archer, you can shoot up to 15 range increments.

With another, you can ignore distance penalties.

With a Dragonbone Greatbow of Distance (and the Far Shot feat) you can get a range increment of 300.

Totaled alltogether, you can ALMOST shoot a single mile away.

...Have I made any mistakes? Missed anything?

[Jormengand]

Under the rules for cover:



...which brings us to the rules for line of effect:



Where are you getting that any hole, even the subatomic space between particles, is enough for you to gain LoE? Archer's eye might ignore concealment, but if someone still has total cover, you'll need another way to bypass it.

Okay, fine, but that passage means that if it has a hole of at least 1 sq ft anywhere in that five foot bit of the wall, I can shoot through it.

In any case, it doesn't really matter, because I can just... I dunno, stand somewhere where I have line of effect?

And anyway, do walls on the prime material really block my line of effect when I'm on the ethereal?

[StoneCipher]

Ethereal jaunt only allows 60 ft of vision and hearing onto the material, so that would limit you to that, even with blindsense.

Also, ethereal objects are counted as physical, as such, you may be able to technically hurl great distances on the ethereal plane, but sooner or later, you will not have line of effect. Whether it be some ethereal structure or creature, something will eventually be in the way, so you cannot say it's unlimited.

[Jormengand]

Ethereal jaunt only allows 60 ft of vision and hearing onto the material, so that would limit you to that, even with blindsense.

Blindsense (and blindsight, more to the point) is neither sight, nor hearing.


Also, ethereal objects are counted as physical, as such, you may be able to technically hurl great distances on the ethereal plane, but sooner or later, you will not have line of effect. Whether it be some ethereal structure or creature, something will eventually be in the way, so you cannot say it's unlimited.

Still, it is quite likely that there is a way of throwing something from one end of the ethereal to the other end of the prime material, even if you have to stand on a mountain to...

Wait, stand on a mountain? Screw it, I'm a truenamer, I can fly.

[Piggy Knowles]

And how are you doing that? Ether Reforged does not allow a creature on the ethereal plane to effect a creature on the material. There are only a small handful of effects that can do that - pretty much just the Ninja's level 8 ability and a specific magic sword in (IIRC) Complete Psionic. I guess Throw Anything with an Ethereal Reaver might work?

[Jormengand]

And how are you doing that? Ether Reforged does not allow a creature on the ethereal plane to effect a creature on the material.

Except that that is the entire point of ether reforged - it specifies I can use weapons against both corporeal and incorporeal foes, and people on the material are corporeal. I then use reversed ether reforged to become ethereal.

[StoneCipher]

Blindsight doesn't cross planes since you cannot actually perceive the physicality of things on the material while ethereal. You would have to somehow enchant your blindsight to effect the material plane, which I doubt there are rules for.

[Beardbarian]

A natural 20 (the d20 comes up 20) is always a hit.

Surge of Fortune (http://dndtools.eu/spells/complete-champion--57/surge-of-fortune--630/) + True Strike (Time Domain) + Spot maxed out

[Jormengand]

Blindsight doesn't cross planes since you cannot actually perceive the physicality of things on the material while ethereal.

Uhm... yes, I can?

Also, I have line of effect to them. Even if I normally wouldn't (which I doubt, since you can still magic missile ghosts in the face), Ether Reforged allows me to attack them, so I must have line of effect to them, so my blindsight works because it works on things I have line of effect to.

[Piggy Knowles]

Except that that is the entire point of ether reforged - it specifies I can use weapons against both corporeal and incorporeal foes, and people on the material are corporeal. I then use reversed ether reforged to become ethereal.

People on the prime are corporeal, but they're on a different plane. Attacks don't cross planar boundaries. If you're on the ethereal, you can't effect anything on the material not because they're corporeal and you're not, but because they're not on the same plane as you. You need an effect that specifically crosses planar boundaries, such as the Ethereal Reaver, for that to work.

[StoneCipher]

Uhm... yes, I can?

Also, I have line of effect to them. Even if I normally wouldn't (which I doubt, since you can still magic missile ghosts in the face), Ether Reforged allows me to attack them, so I must have line of effect to them, so my blindsight works because it works on things I have line of effect to.

No, planar boundaries always block line of effect, even beyond that, unless otherwise noted by the spell. While you may be able to physically attack someone, that doesn't extend to your senses. You can magic missile ghosts because it is a force and force is a special case.

If you could extend your senses to other planes, you'd have gone mad blindsensing everything on adjacent planes.

In addition, ghosts are special because they are an ethereal being manifested on the material. That's what incorporeal creatures are.

[Jormengand]

But... the entire point... is so that you can hit things between planes... because that's why it's called ether reforged... so you can hit... ethereal... things... with... it...

Gah, I'm not having this argument. I can still throw an axe I can barely lift to the other end of the plane. Are you happy now? ARE YOU ENTERTAINED?

[StoneCipher]

But... the entire point... is so that you can hit things between planes... because that's why it's called ether reforged... so you can hit... ethereal... things... with... it...

Gah, I'm not having this argument. I can still throw an axe I can barely lift to the other end of the plane. Are you happy now? ARE YOU ENTERTAINED?

I'm not even commenting on interplanar attacks, which I'm sure can be done. I'm just saying your logic is flawed because you have the line of effect order reversed.

I can attack them via a plane, therefore giving me line of effect. If I have line of effect, therefore my senses do.

That does not make any sense since your weaponry and your senses are two ENTIRELY separate things.

You must have line of effect to sense them, which in turn would give you line of effect to attack them.

Edit: Furthermore, you have to sense the vibrations and noises coming from a creature to blindsight them, which simple physics can tell you, there's a certain point to where vibrations completely stop and dissipate, never being able to reach you, so no, you can't hurl things to infinity and beyond.

[Jormengand]

Edit: Furthermore, you have to sense the vibrations and noises coming from a creature to blindsight them, which simple physics can tell you, there's a certain point to where vibrations completely stop and dissipate, never being able to reach you, so no, you can't hurl things to infinity and beyond.

Stop killing catgirls.

[StoneCipher]

Stop killing catgirls.

*hands you an umbrella for your rained on parade*

Edit:Goes without saying though, that the DM wouldn't allow such shenanigans anyways.

[Jormengand]

*hands you an umbrella for your rained on parade*

No, seriously. You're trying to apply... physics and... common sense to the biggest case of RAW abuse since Pun-pun himself. There's nothing in the rules which actually stops my blindsight working.

The important parts of the machine are the blindsight, the ability to Throw Anything, and the Distant Shot. The whole "From another plane, through a wall" thing was really just for style points.


Edit:Goes without saying though, that the DM wouldn't allow such shenanigans anyways.

I'm sorry, I thought the whole "Infinite blindsight" and "Throwing an axe I can barely lift" might have clued you in to the fact that it was TO.

[Piggy Knowles]

But... the entire point... is so that you can hit things between planes... because that's why it's called ether reforged... so you can hit... ethereal... things... with... it...

Gah, I'm not having this argument. I can still throw an axe I can barely lift to the other end of the plane. Are you happy now? ARE YOU ENTERTAINED?

Names aside, it... doesn't actually do that. You get what the ability says it gives you, and no more. So, despite the name, Ether Reforged either lets you hit incorporeal creatures normally, or it lets you turn ethereal. It doesn't let you effect things on the Material while ethereal, however.

Planar boundaries have a bunch of wonky rules surrounding them, which is part of what makes them so frustrating. For example, there are a ton of ways to get effects to cross planar boundaries from the Material to the Ethereal (such as force effects or Transdimensional Spell), but none of them work in reverse.

But yes, if you have unlimited line of sight and the Distant Shot feat, you can attack anything on this plane that does not have total cover. I still think that it's a bit of a stretch to say that Sensory Focus gives you unlimited LoS - as far as I can tell, by RAW, the ability simply doesn't work, since blindsight specifies that it only extends as far as the range specified in the ability description, which means you have blindsight with a range of null. But that's really a DM call at that point.

EDIT: The thing about TO is that it has to follow RAW, or it is meaningless. Unlimited blindsight isn't RAW, nor is Ether Reforged allowing you to effect the Material from the Ethereal. You need DM adjudication to get Sensory Focus to work at all, or to get Ether Reforged to function as you described, and DM adjudication is the last thing a TO build wants to rely on.

[StoneCipher]

I'm sorry, I thought the whole "Infinite blindsight" and "Throwing an axe I can barely lift" might have clued you in to the fact that it was TO.

My point is that the DM has to determine in this case, what is in the way. There is no mountain you can climb that will ever give you 100% LoE, even if you had unlimited blindsight.

[Jormengand]

My point is that the DM has to determine in this case, what is in the way. There is no mountain you can climb that will ever give you 100% LoE, even if you had unlimited blindsight.

This is, of course, why I fly, among other things. If my DM says that there is a wall that tall between me and the commoner... well, very few of our builds would work, anyway.


I still think that it's a bit of a stretch to say that Sensory Focus gives you unlimited LoS - as far as I can tell, by RAW, the ability simply doesn't work, since blindsight specifies that it only extends as far as the range specified in the ability description, which means you have blindsight with a range of null. But that's really a DM call at that point.

Well, I'm going on the assumption that the ability, you know, works. To be honest, the idea of getting unlimited blindsight isn't exactly game-breaking compared to the stuff a wizard can do, in any case.

[Piggy Knowles]

I'm not saying that Sensory Focus is overpowered, or that it shouldn't work. I'm just saying that, as written, it's dysfunctional, because the blindsight ability needs a range to work. That means that you need a DM to rule on what the range is, since it was omitted and the errata for ToM is so cursory it's practically non-existent.

If you pre-suppose that the lack of a listed range means being able to "see" everything without total cover on the entirety of the Material Plane, then it won't make the truenamer as a class broken any more than Conjunctive Gate already does, but it'll still be pretty insanely good. Forget about scrying - you can see everything in the world. If I were DMing, I'd rule that since it mentions giving you blindsight and true seeing, that you have blindsight out to the range of your true seeing ability (which IS listed, at 120').

[StoneCipher]

Even though it doesn't explicitly state a range, you cannot, as a PC arbitrarily say "it must be infinite" since it does not explicitly state it is infinite. With pun-pun, for example, EVERYTHING is working as explicitly stated. There are no real gray areas.