Free metamagic

[Max Caysey]

Yeah so... I have been looking around for some time now, to see if I could find help in this department of metamagic feats. I am specifically looking for ways to reduce the cost of metamagic cost to zero. I have looked through handbooks and this forum, but have been unable to find ways. It seems that everything comes with the claus of (minimum +1). Basically everything I could find. Arcane Thesis does the job, but only for one spell, and I am interested in gaining that on a metamagic feat and not single spells.

So in short... How do I get to memorize all my spells maximized/exteded/enhanced/etc...?

As always thanks in advance.

[Vaz]

Divine Metamagic and Incantatrix (allows a few to be used for free per day, but only on existing effects, on those cast by others, or just a general reducer - considered broken in that it doesn't really take anything away from a wizard) are the two big ones. There's an Incarnum one as well, but it's not that powerful. There is also Anima Mage, but that's 3/day at most.

Aside from that, not much. It's kind of the more broken things in the game, and using the same level spell slot for one that has abilities that are several levels higher in ability throws any pretence at balance out the window.

[Forrestfire]

Spelldancer and Incantatrix both let you add as much free metamagic to your buffs as you like.

[bjoern]

Yeah so... I have been looking around for some time now, to see if I could find help in this department of metamagic feats. I am specifically looking for ways to reduce the cost of metamagic cost to zero. I have looked through handbooks and this forum, but have been unable to find ways. It seems that everything comes with the claus of (minimum +1). Basically everything I could find. Arcane Thesis does the job, but only for one spell, and I am interested in gaining that on a metamagic feat and not single spells.

So in short... How do I get to memorize all my spells maximized/exteded/enhanced/etc...?

As always thanks in advance.

Thesis is the only way that doesn't have the "cannot be reduced below 1" limitation that I know of. You can take it multiple times for different spells.

Metamagic rods can give you one free MM per spell.

Incantatrix 2 and 3 can give you free MM with a spellcraft check. Really only practical out of combat.

[prufock]

You say you've read the handbooks, but I'll post my go-to for metamagic (http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=9876.0) in case you haven't seen it.

[Chronos]

My favorite high-op trick is to cast all of your spells on a plane with the Enhanced Magic trait for the appropriate sort of spell and metamagic feat(s). If the plane doesn't already exist, make it yourself. If the spell needs to be cast someplace else (like in combat on another plane), use Planar Bubble cast on some trinket of a construct that you made on the enhanced plane. The best part about this method is it doesn't even require any feats or PrC levels: Every 17th-level wizard can do it.

[Rebel7284]

In addition to the ones mentioned before, I also like Ultimate Magus's ability for free metamagic.

But yeah, Arcane Thesis and Metamagic School focus are the only ones I know that reduce to 0.

Also, the handbook seems to be missing that artificer infusion.

[Max Caysey]

You say you've read the handbooks, but I'll post my go-to for metamagic (http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=9876.0) in case you haven't seen it.

This was the exact one I have been looking through... But as I can see nothing lets you reduce metamagic feats to zero for all spells so that I could memorize all my spells maximized. Both offencive and defencive. I am aware of how powerful this would be, but it would fit some of the, lets call it TO, Im dabbling with...

I have found one apparent thing that would work, but I rather not use it since its 3rd party. I say rather because 3rd party is not banned in my house, but just frowned upon.



Metamagic Cradle (Metamagic)

You can dedicate a portion of your spell energy to hold prepared metamagic effects, allowing you to cast with greater speed and efficiency.

Requirements: Cha 19+

Benefits: At the beginning of each day, following a normal period of rest, you can dedicate spell slots for the day to holding metamagic effects for later use. The spell slot dedicated must be of a level at least equal to the level penalty associated with the metamagic effect to be stored. So, for example, a sorcerer with the Maximise Spell feat could choose to store it in a spell slot of 3rd level or higher. A spell slot dedicated to storing a metamagic feat in this fashion cannot be used for any other purpose, it is considered to be a precast spell. In addition, once it cradled, the metamagic effect cannot be altered, so a cradled Maximise Spell metamagic feat cannot be exchanged for an Empowered Spell feat.

The benefits of cradling metamagic effects are two fold. First, when you wish to modify a spell with a cradled metamagic effect, the casting time of the spell is not modified. So, a fireball spell modified by a cradled Maximise Spell feat requires only a single action to cast, rather than a full round. Second, a spell modified by a cradled metamagic effect does not require a higher level spell slot. So, for example, a magic missile spell modified by a cradled Maximise Spell feat uses a 1st level spell slot and the 3rd level spell slot, rather than a 4th level spell slot. Cradled feats and the slots that store them, are expended after a single use.

Here's the Link (http://www.purpleduckgames.com/qsor4)

This is clearly meant for sorcerers, but does not have any requirements of having an ability to cast spontaneously, by raw. As I have said, I dont particular like this feat, and therefor are looking for any and all official 3.0/3.5 D&D ways of getting all my spells mazimised or enhanced or intensified...

Cheese is also very welcome is anyone would know of ways of doing this.

[sleepyphoenixx]

Circle Magic gets you free Empower, Maximize and Heighten, among other things. Needs at least 5 levels in Hathran, Red Wizard or Halruaan Elder.
There's also the Circle Magic feat (GW) that does the same but is limited to divine casters, requires worshipping some god no one ever heard of and is a little lower powered (only heighten to 9th instead of 20th, only raise CL to 20 instead of 40).

Druids get what amounts to a free +1 metamagic on their SNA spells with the Ring of the Beast (CC).

Mind Mage (Dragen #313) can pay for metamagic with power points instead of using higher level slots (among other things). One of the few theurge classes that's actually worth it.

[Aliek]

Other than the usual ways(DMM, Incantatrix, Spelldancer~~), I'm quite fond of using action points for Free Metamagic(tm) with anima mage. More specifically this part:

Activate Class Ability

A character can spend 1 action point to gain another use of a class ability that has a limited number of uses per day. For example, a monk might spend an action point to gain another use of her stunning fist ability, or a paladin might spend an action point to make an additional smite attack.

At Anima Mage 4, you can apply a metamagic feat for free to a spell once per day(with a 5 rounds 'cooldown time'). Then action points get past that once per day limit.

After that, it's just a matter of persisting Unfettered Heroism, from Races of Eberron, for a temporary action point per round :smallbiggrin:

[ZamielVanWeber]

Dweomerkeeper also cuts down of metamagic costs. My vote goes for Anima mage. Vestige Metamagic is eventually usable 3/day and boy does that get crazy.

[Segev]

I may have missed it, but is there a reason you can't use Divine Metamagic? (Are you a wizard, specifically, or is this for casters in general?)

[Bronk]

Dragon 294, p75 has 'Dust of Maximization'... 6800g gets you enough dust for three uses of free spell maximization.

[Max Caysey]

I may have missed it, but is there a reason you can't use Divine Metamagic? (Are you a wizard, specifically, or is this for casters in general?)

Ohh sorry... This was relating to arcane yes. :smallsmile:

[Segev]

I had a build once wherein I was able to use Illumian sigils (one combo does specifically do the DMM thing) on my sorcerer spells, but I don't recall what hoops I had to jump through to make that work.

Incantatrix is very good at this, though. I heartily recommend it.

[Max Caysey]

I had a build once wherein I was able to use Illumian sigils (one combo does specifically do the DMM thing) on my sorcerer spells, but I don't recall what hoops I had to jump through to make that work.

Incantatrix is very good at this, though. I heartily recommend it.

Incantatrix you say... As far as I can tell, and please correct me if I'm wrong, the incantatrix cant lower the cost of meta-magic below +1. And the rest is quite limited in uses per day or to only persistent spell effects. What I' looking for is simple. I want my wizard to be able to prepare all his spells as maximized, without them increasing in level, so that I can prepare all my spells that way. Not just some spells, or 3 times per day or only one school or something like that. I'm looking for way of, for lack of a better word, 'break' the meta-magic system, so I would end up with an automatic maximize spell or automatic extend spell effect, like that of the epic feats of the same name (automatic still) counterparts from ELH.

So far though... it seems impossible! :smallfrown:

[Deadline]

So far though... it seems impossible! :smallfrown:

Multiple Metamagic Rods of Maximize Spell.

And there have been tons of suggestions here for how to reduce metamagic costs to zero.

[Segev]

Incantatrix you say... As far as I can tell, and please correct me if I'm wrong, the incantatrix cant lower the cost of meta-magic below +1. And the rest is quite limited in uses per day or to only persistent spell effects. What I' looking for is simple. I want my wizard to be able to prepare all his spells as maximized, without them increasing in level, so that I can prepare all my spells that way. Not just some spells, or 3 times per day or only one school or something like that. I'm looking for way of, for lack of a better word, 'break' the meta-magic system, so I would end up with an automatic maximize spell or automatic extend spell effect, like that of the epic feats of the same name (automatic still) counterparts from ELH.

So far though... it seems impossible! :smallfrown:

Yeah, that's deliberately not possible. If it were intended that you could maximize all of your spells at no cost, they wouldn't have variable effects to begin with, I'm afraid.

Lots of rods of Maximize?

Maybe Ultimate Magus with a ton of 3rd level Pearls of Power to burn spontaneous slots for Maximizations of your prepared spells?

[Max Caysey]

Multiple Metamagic Rods of Maximize Spell.

And there have been tons of suggestions here for how to reduce metamagic costs to zero.

Really for all spells? I'm sorry I have missed that. As far as I could tell they were all limited in some way. Either in how many times, what kind of spell or only a certain specific meta-magic feat. I see that Circle magic could be used to bring maximized down to zero... and yes that would work. I was hoping to find something that was not limited to any kind of meta-magic feat- empower, maximise heighten - though, even tough I used maximized as an example of what I was looking for.

And make no mistake... I dearly appreciate every contribution.


Yeah, that's deliberately not possible. If it were intended that you could maximize all of your spells at no cost, they wouldn't have variable effects to begin with, I'm afraid.

Lots of rods of Maximize?

Maybe Ultimate Magus with a ton of 3rd level Pearls of Power to burn spontaneous slots for Maximizations of your prepared spells?

You are probably right... I do see the problems of having that. Especially when applied to intencify spell, which actualle was the end goal of this little experiment...

[Aliek]

circle magic is your best bet, get some simulacrums or followers who can host circles and drop you a 20th level heightened spell or two

[StoneCipher]

Yeah, that's deliberately not possible. If it were intended that you could maximize all of your spells at no cost, they wouldn't have variable effects to begin with, I'm afraid.

Lots of rods of Maximize?

Maybe Ultimate Magus with a ton of 3rd level Pearls of Power to burn spontaneous slots for Maximizations of your prepared spells?

So, Pun-Pun is WOTC's version of an easter egg?

[Dread_Head]

Really for all spells? I'm sorry I have missed that. As far as I could tell they were all limited in some way. Either in how many times, what kind of spell or only a certain specific meta-magic feat. I see that Circle magic could be used to bring maximized down to zero... and yes that would work. I was hoping to find something that was not limited to any kind of meta-magic feat- empower, maximise heighten - though, even tough I used maximized as an example of what I was looking for.

Did you see this method?


My favorite high-op trick is to cast all of your spells on a plane with the Enhanced Magic trait for the appropriate sort of spell and metamagic feat(s). If the plane doesn't already exist, make it yourself. If the spell needs to be cast someplace else (like in combat on another plane), use Planar Bubble cast on some trinket of a construct that you made on the enhanced plane. The best part about this method is it doesn't even require any feats or PrC levels: Every 17th-level wizard can do it.

[bjoern]

Get the DM to house rule that your character Has a class feature of "add maximize for free to every spell he casts"

Best I can think of is using residual magic to get half of your spells maximized for free. Take practical metamagic maximize, get the reducer from incantatrix to make it a +1. use residual to get two maximized spells for a total of a +1 level.

Residual has the limitation that it has yo be the same spell. So you might as well take thesis to make it +0 at the point but just for one spell.

[otakumick]

well, for truly free metamagic(or as near to free as it practically pays you) there is the Mind Mage Prestige class from Dragon 349... you can pay for metamagic with power points, add in some method of recharging your power points and you have all the metamagic you could possibly want(though it helps if you have some method of getting a lot of feats seeing as you need to use at least two on psi-spell feats to get into the mind mage class and probably a feat or two on metapsionic stuff for a recharge trick)

[Aliek]

If just maximizing spells is what you're looking for, you don't even need anima mage! Just a way of persisting unfettered heroism, and using your free action point per turn to Emulate feat!

Emulate Feat

At the beginning of a character’s turn, he may spend 1 action point as a free action to gain the benefit of a feat he doesn’t have. He must meet the prerequisites of the feat. He gains the benefit until the beginning of his next turn.

Then select Sudden Maximize as your feat of choice, every turn :smallbiggrin:

arguably this won't work since you already used sudden maximized that day, but since you're getting the feat, losing it then gaining it again, a case can be made in its favor

[Deadline]

Really for all spells? I'm sorry I have missed that. As far as I could tell they were all limited in some way. Either in how many times, what kind of spell or only a certain specific meta-magic feat. I see that Circle magic could be used to bring maximized down to zero... and yes that would work. I was hoping to find something that was not limited to any kind of meta-magic feat- empower, maximise heighten - though, even tough I used maximized as an example of what I was looking for.

Yes, at least a couple have been applicable to all spells (including my suggestion of multiple metamagic rods, which you can easily afford with WBLmancy). And there have been several suggestions that, while limited by themselves, are not mutually exclusive, so you could chain them together.

[Max Caysey]

Yes, at least a couple have been applicable to all spells (including my suggestion of multiple metamagic rods, which you can easily afford with WBLmancy). And there have been several suggestions that, while limited by themselves, are not mutually exclusive, so you could chain them together.

Indeed... I guess I couldn't see the forest for all the trees. In all my eager for someone to say: "yes... this feat does what you're looking for" i simply forgot to think of combinging all the mentioned solutions.

[otakumick]

And now I'm imagining a mage with no wisdom chaining metamagic rods together and calling them spellchucks(or something equally inane)

[Telok]

Metamagic Song will do it. All arcane spells, any metamagic, just need bardic music and loys of it.

[Melcar]

And now I'm imagining a mage with no wisdom chaining metamagic rods together and calling them spellchucks(or something equally inane)

Rod... Ha... Make Ioun Stones of each Meta-Magic feat (including Epic) and call it a day! ANd make sure that when you make these stones there are no number of limits to how many times per day they can be used. Yes this would be an EXPENSIVE item, but hey. Or just make one Iounstone of greater meta-magic intensify spell. A single wish spell should be enough to actually accuire such an item.

Heres a question for you. Whould you really think this fun?

[Anthrowhale]

Metanode spell can provide free metamagic to any spell with the limitation that you must cast the spell in a specific location.

[Vaz]

Other than the usual ways(DMM, Incantatrix, Spelldancer~~), I'm quite fond of using action points for Free Metamagic(tm) with anima mage. More specifically this part:


At Anima Mage 4, you can apply a metamagic feat for free to a spell once per day(with a 5 rounds 'cooldown time'). Then action points get past that once per day limit.

After that, it's just a matter of persisting Unfettered Heroism, from Races of Eberron, for a temporary action point per round :smallbiggrin:

The two Action Point systems are completetly seperate. Eberron Action Points do not allow your use.-