Durkula is going to return to the Dwarven homelands as part of Hel's plot

[esorscher]

1) Hel is planning things involving the dwarves, against Thor. (OOTS 946)
2) The party is headed North, which is where the dwarves live.
3) The Oracle told Durkon he would return home "posthumously," and he is currently posthumous.

[factotum]

Durkula will return to the Dwarven homelands as part of visiting the last Gate--it's Kraagor's Gate, so it must be built closest to Kraagor's homeland, and Kraagor was a dwarf. There's no need for Hel's plot to involve the Dwarven homelands at all, since it's the Gate she's interested in.

[Gift Jeraff]

Durkula will return to the Dwarven homelands as part of visiting the last Gate--it's Kraagor's Gate, so it must be built closest to Kraagor's homeland, and Kraagor was a dwarf. There's no need for Hel's plot to involve the Dwarven homelands at all, since it's the Gate she's interested in.

Being "closest to" doesn't mean being in. Roy said Kraagor's Tomb is past Dwarven Lands and Haley told her dad she's going to the North Pole.

[Jaxzan Proditor]

Durkula will return to the Dwarven homelands as part of visiting the last Gate--it's Kraagor's Gate, so it must be built closest to Kraagor's homeland, and Kraagor was a dwarf. There's no need for Hel's plot to involve the Dwarven homelands at all, since it's the Gate she's interested in.

We don't know for certain that she is interested in the Gate. I think that Durkon's other prophecy makes it likely that she is up to something in the Dwarven Lands.

[cybishop]

Durkula is going to return to the Dwarven homelands as part of Hel's plot
1) Hel is planning things involving the dwarves, against Thor. (OOTS 946)
2) The party is headed North, which is where the dwarves live.
3) The Oracle told Durkon he would return home "posthumously," and he is currently posthumous.

I don't understand the point of this thread. Of course he will. What part of that or the three numbered points is news? I'll bet 50 Internet points that someone figured out that posthumousness included vampirism in the thread about the strip where he died. They're already back in the North, judging by the storm. We don't know yet whether "the North" and the Dwarven homelands are coextensive, whether Kraagor's Gate is within the Dwarven homelands or merely near it, or the details of Hel's plot, but Durkula is already in the area of the Dwarven homelands as part of Hel's plot.

[evileeyore]

We don't know for certain that she is interested in the Gate.
Some of us do.

[Jaxzan Proditor]

Some of us do.

I would love to know what extra information tells you that she, in fact, is.

[evileeyore]

I would love to know what extra information tells you that she, in fact, is.
We have the same information. You just aren't processing it as I am.

[Jaxzan Proditor]

We have the same information. You just aren't processing it as I am.

I see no mention of the Gate. It seems very likely that Hel's plans involve the Gate, but it is not certain. You are adding words that aren't there.

[evileeyore]

I see no mention of the Gate. It seems very likely that Hel's plans involve the Gate, but it is not certain. You are adding words that aren't there.
No added words, just the logical conclusion.

[Jaxzan Proditor]

No added words, just the logical conclusion.

Until Hel or her High Priest comes out and says that they are after the Gate, there is always the possibility they are after something else.

[factotum]

Until Hel or her High Priest comes out and says that they are after the Gate, there is always the possibility they are after something else.

The rest of the Order are after the Gate. Hel, and her High Priest, will know this. Therefore, there is no reason for Durkula to stay with them unless he also has the same objective.

[dancrilis]

Therefore, there is no reason for Durkula to stay with them unless he also has the same objective.

Just because you don't know a reason doesn't mean a reason doesn't exist.

Likely the gates are involved - but the possibility remains that they are not - for example if the plan is to turn most of the clerics of Thor into vampires and setup a Necrocracy, the gate might not be involved at all - and associating with the Order could simply be to ensure that they don't hunt him down and stake him to revive Durkon.
We simply don't know with certainty.

[Jaxzan Proditor]

The rest of the Order are after the Gate. Hel, and her High Priest, will know this. Therefore, there is no reason for Durkula to stay with them unless he also has the same objective.

Could be that all they need is transportation headed to the North. Also, just because we don't know of another reason doesn't mean that one doesn't exist.

[factotum]

Could be that all they need is transportation headed to the North. Also, just because we don't know of another reason doesn't mean that one doesn't exist.

Maybe, but I like to go with the simplest available explanation which fits all the facts, which at the moment is that Durkula is staying with the Order because he's going to the same place they are--e.g. the Gate. My record on being correct on future comic plot predictions is not stellar, but this theory will do until we get some information that disproves it. :smallsmile:

[Jaxzan Proditor]

Maybe, but I like to go with the simplest available explanation which fits all the facts, which at the moment is that Durkula is staying with the Order because he's going to the same place they are--e.g. the Gate. My record on being correct on future comic plot predictions is not stellar, but this theory will do until we get some information that disproves it. :smallsmile:

Personally, I also think it's pretty likely that Hel's plan involves the Gate. I just want to stay away from making any definite statements about it. I do hope we get some more concrete details at some point.

[Jasdoif]

Maybe, but I like to go with the simplest available explanation which fits all the facts, which at the moment is that Durkula is staying with the Order because he's going to the same place they are--e.g. the Gate. My record on being correct on future comic plot predictions is not stellar, but this theory will do until we get some information that disproves it. :smallsmile:See, I'd look at it more like he's staying with the Order because he's going to the same place they are: the region where the Gate is located.

It would be very straightforward if he's going after the Gate as well, but misdirection (of the type that promotes inaccurate plot predictions) works by making it easy to come to highly plausible assumptions (that are inaccurate).

[Chronos]

It's possible that Hel doesn't want anything to do with the Gates, and would prefer that everyone stay far away from them, because she's afraid of what will happen if the last one is destroyed. So she's ordering her high priest to stay with the Order so he can try to steer them away from the Gate. Is this the most likely scenario? I don't know. But it's just as consistent with the facts as the hypothesis that she does want to meddle with the Gate herself.

[factotum]

Is this the most likely scenario? I don't know. But it's just as consistent with the facts as the hypothesis that she does want to meddle with the Gate herself.

I don't think it *is* as consistent, because it doesn't explain how doing this will lead to bringing the world to ruin and Thor to his knees, which is Hel's stated objective.

[Gift Jeraff]

If his goal was to steer them away from the Gate his best options were
A) team up with Nale and/or Tarquin to help kill them
B) do nothing and let the silicon elemental/Linear Guild/Tarquin kill them
C) be his own force and kill them himself; maybe vampirize Z

[137beth]

Some of us do.


I would love to know what extra information tells you that she, in fact, is.

evileeyore is The Giant's secret alternate account.

My hunch is that Hel is interested in the Gate, but I think it is possible that she wants something completely unrelated. It could be as simple as the top clerics of Thor and Odin being killed.

[factotum]

It could be as simple as the top clerics of Thor and Odin being killed.

Again, how would that be tantamount to "bringing the world to ruin"? Unless Hel is speaking of "world" in the extremely narrow sense of "the world of the Dwarves", which I suppose is possible, but I think a bit of a stretch.

[Keltest]

Again, how would that be tantamount to "bringing the world to ruin"? Unless Hel is speaking of "world" in the extremely narrow sense of "the world of the Dwarves", which I suppose is possible, but I think a bit of a stretch.

Without knowing what roles the high priests play in the hierarchy of the clergies and/or the dwarves, it could very well end up with a Witcher 2 style event where

The intent is simply to cause infighting and chaos by taking out the leaders until another seemingly uninvolved party comes in to wipe the table with the formerly strong and united groups.

[...]

The prophecy in OOPC said that the next time Durkon came to the dwarven lands, he would "bring doom upon us all," so it is extremely likely that Hel's plan does involves Durkon's hometown.

[evileeyore]

The prophecy in OOPC said that the next time Durkon came to the dwarven lands, he would "bring doom upon us all," so it is extremely likely that Hel's plan does involves Durkon's hometown.
You do realize D's hometown is "in the world" and thus bringing ruin to the entire world would, by default, bring ruin to his hometown?

[Jaxzan Proditor]

The prophecy in OOPC said that the next time Durkon came to the dwarven lands, he would "bring doom upon us all," so it is extremely likely that Hel's plan does involves Durkon's hometown.

The essential meaning is the same, but the phrase is "death and destruction" which lead to some people arguing they were referring to his new domains. This is an argument you couldn't make if it was just "doom".