Ways to "Take Down" an Eberron Airship

[RolandDeschain]

Long, long story, but the quick and dirty version is this:

Our party is facing four or five inbound airships loaded with baddies(we're on an airship over the ocean - currently disabled). We have a 10th level wizard and a 10th level cleric, but no prepared Dismissal spells.

Just looking for any creative ideas, and don't have time to post all of the prepared spells available right now.

Thanks in advance guys/gals...

[Deadline]

Well, getting on board and using Charm Monster on the bound Elemental should get you control of the ship, IIRC. It should be a simple matter to crash it then. Bonus points for ramming it into the other ships. And use Invisibility + Fly to sneak on board.

[RolandDeschain]

Well, getting on board and using Charm Monster on the bound Elemental should get you control of the ship, IIRC. It should be a simple matter to crash it then. Bonus points for ramming it into the other ships. And use Invisibility + Fly to sneak on board.

Yep, Charm Monster is definitely on the spell list, and I'm considering that option. My wizard is a Domain Wizard, and I never really use my bonus Polymorph spell, but I thought about Polymorphing one of the other party members into some form of flying creature capable of carrying the other characters(don't have Mass Fly) so they could form a 'strike team' on one of the other airships.

[Dusk Eclipse]

If you have any sort of bird familiar I suggest polymorphing it as a Roc :smallwink: other options might be dissintegrating a hole in the hull or even the elemental's bonds.

[Forrestfire]

Tree token, detonated inside the ship :smallamused:

Oak trees have root systems 4-7 times the width of the canopy. A tree token creates a healthy tree, with a presumably full root system. Show your DM some information on root erosion.

[Werephilosopher]

Good old fireball is your friend. If it burns through the hull (which it should, if the hulls are wooden) it spreads inside.

[Deadline]

Good old fireball is your friend. If it burns through the hull (which it should, if the hulls are wooden) it spreads inside.

http://www.fantasymagazine.it/imgbank/ARTICOLI/dduna_delle_navi_volanti_di_eberron.jpg
Pictured: An Eberron Airship

I rather suspect they have ways of dealing with fire on board (if not outright immunity).

[RolandDeschain]

If you have any sort of bird familiar I suggest polymorphing it as a Roc :smallwink: other options might be dissintegrating a hole in the hull or even the elemental's bonds.

too high of hit die

[With a box]

Put a Wall of force (or something made of force) in front of it
Ship's momentum will crush the ship

[Threadnaught]

Disjunction.

What? The playground dislikes that Spell?

It'll completely break the binding that keeps the Elemental trapped in the Airship, turning it into a ship in mid air, with no form of propulsion or way to stay afloat. There's just the issue of getting in range.

[HaikenEdge]

Find a way to fire a thresher maw at it.

I think the idea applies, even if you can't fire an actual thresher maw at it. Maybe a giant squid?

[Deadline]

Disjunction.

What? The playground dislikes that Spell?


OP said 10th level characters. Disjunction is unlikely to be available.

[Threadnaught]

OP said 10th level characters. Disjunction is unlikely to be available.

Ah, I think I may have got the levels mixed with another thread, I was going to suggest getting a Scroll from an NPC.

[fishyfishyfishy]

All you need to do is break the crystalline lattice that makes up the Arcane Matrix. The Khyber shard at the heart of this Matrix is typically a Greater Khyber shard (6inch diameter, 8-14 inches long) and while no hardness or HP is given in Magic of Eberron where this information is found it can be safely assumed that it is easily damaged. Gathering up these shards takes great skill and failure results in damaging the shard, so imagine what a greataxe would do... Or better yet, a Soundburst or Shout spell. You could instantly shatter the Arcane Matrix and release the Elemental contained within. It is likely going to be very upset and wreck the ship as it falls out of the sky so I suggest a good escape method as well.

EDIT: Oh and keep in mind that the room containing this large object is likely protected. The door will likely be trapped and have an alarm spell on it and there are sure to be guards (Iron Defenders or some other homunculi is most likely).

[Werephilosopher]

http://www.fantasymagazine.it/imgbank/ARTICOLI/dduna_delle_navi_volanti_di_eberron.jpg
Pictured: An Eberron Airship

I rather suspect they have ways of dealing with fire on board (if not outright immunity).

Use Energy Substitution (Electricity) and Born of the Three Thunders then!


It'll completely break the binding that keeps the Elemental trapped in the Airship, turning it into a ship in mid air, with no form of propulsion or way to stay afloat. There's just the issue of getting in range.

The elemental only provides propulsion, it'll stay afloat because it's made of soarwood. And if the PCs get close enough to disjoin it, it won't matter, because the PC's ship is also disabled.

[...]

I don't know anything about airships, may I have some information on them so I can get you a good strategy?

[Darkweave31]

Airships are technically magic items... thus dispel magic should disable it for a few rounds.

[Feint's End]

I don't know anything about airships, may I have some information on them so I can get you a good strategy?

From the Explorer's Handbook:


Airship: Colossal vehicle; Airworthiness +6; Shiphandling
–4; Speed Fly 100 ft. (poor), Overall AC –3;
Hull sections 1,000 (crash 250 sections); Section hp
60 (hardness 5); Section AC 3; Ram 12d6; SA fi re
ring; SQ resistance to fi re 10, hover; Space 90 ft. by
300 ft.; Height 50 ft. (fi re ring has 110-ft. diameter);
Watch 20; Complement 150; Cargo 30 tons; Cost
92,000 gp.
Hover: Despite its maneuverability rating, an airship
can hover and has no minimum speed required to
maintain air travel. It cannot turn in place, however.
Ring: An airship can use either a fire or an air
elemental. A burning fire elemental bound into a
ring deals 3d8 points of fi re damage to any creature
or object passing it touches. When an air elemental is
used, the damage is bludgeoning.
Aura: Strong conjuration, CL 15th.
Construction: Bind Elemental, greater planar binding,
46,000 gp, 3,680 XP, 92 days.
Price: 92,000 gp.



Airships are technically magic items... thus dispel magic should disable it for a few rounds.

First off ... no they are not. They are nonmagical ships with an elemental bound to them.

Secondly (also from the Explorer's Handbook)


Suppression: While the elemental bound to the
airship is crucial for propulsion, the vessel’s soarwood
hull provides its lighter-than-air buoyancy. With the
elemental suppressed, the ship remains aloft but can
only move 1 mile per hour. The pilot always suppresses
the elemental before docking.

[Telonius]

Level 10, so 5th-level spells available.

30 ton weight limit, cargo presumably already on board.

... how much does a stone wall weigh?

EDIT: Aww, not nearly enough (http://www.northeaststone.com/faq.html), apparently:

Wall stone covers approximately 35-40 square feet of wall per ton of stone.

[...]

Set it on fire. That's all you need to do. Just set it on fire. If it doesn't work, use more fire.

[Feint's End]

Set it on fire. That's all you need to do. Just set it on fire. If it doesn't work, use more fire.

Resistance to Fire 10. Most likely that won't work since being on fire deals less damage than that.

[Darrin]

1. Buy five Chaos Flasks (Planar Handbook). 500 GP.
2. Fly up next to an airship.
3. As a free action, make a DC 13 Wisdom check to turn the contents of the Chaos Flask into a similar quantity of Flux Slime (Epic Level Handbook). Use an opaque container so the contents don't immediately explode.
4. Throw container against hull, arcane matrix, or the bound elemental.
5. In addition to a 20' radius antimagic field, any magic item hit by the Flux Slime is permanently drained of all its magical abilities. If exposed to sunlight, the Flux Slime will explode, and any creature within 50' may develop a random mutation.
6. Rinse & repeat with the other airships.

[...]

Resistance to Fire 10. Most likely that won't work since being on fire deals less damage than that.

Wait... If the ship has resistance to fire 10, but still can be set on fire... Set it on fire and burn the crew.

[Threadnaught]

The elemental only provides propulsion, it'll stay afloat because it's made of soarwood. And if the PCs get close enough to disjoin it, it won't matter, because the PC's ship is also disabled.

Ack, I forgot about the Soarwood.

You forgot about the range of Disjunction though. Minimum CL is 17, so minimum range is 65 feet, with a 40 foot radius of effect, that's 25 feet safe distance for casting. Not that it matters, since there's no way to get Disjunction at this low a level, without cheese.

[bjoern]

Get on the ship using invisibility or fly (or some other means) and use shrink object on some portion that will be disruptive.
Shrink the steering apparatus and throw it overboard. Be creative . There must be someway that fooling around like that can cause mayhem.
Maybe shrink a bunch of water and flood the compartments on the boat.

[MrConsideration]

OP will presumably struggle to buy items seeing as he's already on a disabled airship.

[Hecuba]

Any chance you have minor and major creation prepared? If so, you might be able to build a siege weapon or two.

[Hopeless]

1) Is there any reason you need to remain aboard?

I assume your Wizard can just simply cast Teleport and be able to move all of you somewhere much safer perhaps leave a few surprises for the baddies to find when they board your now emptied crippled airship?

2) Pick one of the approaching airships preferably the one farthest away from you, dimension door a few critters to distract the other ships and perhaps cover your airship with some kind of Fog spell?

3) What magical items does your group have?

4) How was your ship crippled?

5) Is any member of your party dragonmarked?

6) What do the bad guys have against you?
Can you parley and in exchange for say some treasure they'll tow your ship to a safe harbor for repairs maybe even a promise of owing them a favour at some later date?

7) How exactly is your ship crippled?
Can you set her down on the water say after casting a fog cloud or somekind of spell to hide your ship so they can't locate you immediately so you have a chance to effect repairs?

8) More a repeat but do you have an artificer aboard or member of your party?

9) Can you kidnap one off one of the other ships?

10) Can you board another airship and take that one instead whilst they're busy boarding yours?

11) Call in a few favours via Sending spells so they get called off?

12) Trick a monster into thinking they're coming after it?

[bjoern]

The teleport spell allows you to transport with you objects weighing up to your maximum load and creatures based on your level. Teleport onto an enemy ship with just enough friendlies to max out your creature limit.
Now, technically, the ship is lighter than air so its less than your load capacity. I'd say that the crew would count as "willing" hence why you brought enough people to max out your creature limit. Now just teleport the ship and yourselves out from under the enemy crew. They plummet to their doom and you now have a good ship right next to the disabled one. Quickly move supplies and crew over and take off . Run away or repeat as necessary.

[Feint's End]

Wait... If the ship has resistance to fire 10, but still can be set on fire... Set it on fire and burn the crew.

I like this idea :smallamused: ... Interesting question if it works like this but I doubt it. That would mean unlimited energy since the material doesn't get destroyed.

Generally Hopeless has some good suggestions. Try turning around the fight instead of waiting for them to attack.

[RolandDeschain]

I like this idea :smallamused: ... Interesting question if it works like this but I doubt it. That would mean unlimited energy since the material doesn't get destroyed.

Generally Hopeless has some good suggestions. Try turning around the fight instead of waiting for them to attack.

These are all good ideas guys/gals.

Teleport is banned, so we don't access to that spell.

I've avoided listing my wizard's prepared spell list because I was curious what ya'll could come up with.

The air ship that we are on is so massive it takes to bound elementals and one of them was hit with a Dismissal spell, so we're "dead in the water" so to speak.

My wizard does have two Wall of Force spells prepared so I'm thinking of dropping them directly in front of two of the oncoming ships so that they'll collide with it/them. If I turn them sideways, would it do more damage(as in cutting into the ship)? I can't tell you how fast they are going so I don't know how much momentum they have...

I'm thinking my third level Flahsburst spells might work "okay". They are long range and have an awesome area of affect. Blinding everyone on board for 2d8 rounds could definitely buy some time.

If you've got other ideas, keep 'em coming! You guys are awesome!

P.S. My wizard unfortunately can't call time out, and go buy a bunch of items at the local Magic-Mart...lol; I am going to cast Wand Modulation to turn a couple of his wands into Wands of Featherfall and pass them out to any low-level casters I can find on the decks(huge ship, not enough feather fall vests for everyone).

[toapat]

Oh and keep in mind that the room containing this large object is likely protected. The door will likely be trapped and have an alarm spell on it and there are sure to be guards (Iron Defenders or some other homunculi is most likely).

the struts holding the flotation rings are where all functional components of the ship are.

Asto soarwood being lighter then air, the ship isnt.

[bjoern]

Asto soarwood being lighter then air, the ship isnt.

So what keeps it airborne then? Sorry don't play ebberon. But what I read that was posted above made it seem like the only thing magical about the boat was its propulsion.

[Darkweave31]

So what keeps it airborne then? Sorry don't play ebberon. But what I read that was posted above made it seem like the only thing magical about the boat was its propulsion.

Combination of alchemy and the incredibly rare soarwood from arenial (elven lands)

[fishyfishyfishy]

the struts holding the flotation rings are where all functional components of the ship are.

Asto soarwood being lighter then air, the ship isnt.

That is not what magic of Eberron leads me to believe. It very clearly describes the arcane matrix which holds the elemental and the khyber shard contained within. I doubt this is on deck and instead located somewhere within the ship.

[toapat]

So what keeps it airborne then? Sorry don't play ebberon. But what I read that was posted above made it seem like the only thing magical about the boat was its propulsion.

that giant ring is its engine and provides lift and thrust. its only physical parts are the dragonshards which are mounted at the end of each strut. Shattering any of them will kill lift causing the ship to drop out of the sky,

theres the control surfaces which are controlled from the bridge but the flight systems are wholly vulnerable

[Hecuba]

So what keeps it airborne then? Sorry don't play ebberon. But what I read that was posted above made it seem like the only thing magical about the boat was its propulsion.

I'm ignoring, for the moment, the fact that the rules as written really should make a distinction between mass and weight but never do: the ability of the rules to comply with physics is always tenuous at best.

The rules are actually contradictory here: the soarwood hull makes an airship lighter than air, but any soarwood's actual weight is given as 1/4 of normal wood's weight.

Sadly, no weight is given in the rules for ships (naval or airborne) larger than a rowboat.

For a real world reference, 1 cu ft of most wood (normally dried, not green) tends to be between 23 lb and 45 lb for most species. There are, of course, outliers - balsa's a ~11 & Lignum Vitae hits the mid 80s. But if we stick with the pack, a cord of soarwood should be somewhere between 450 lbs and 1000 lbs.

Now, does anyone know how many cords of wood are in a 300 ft by 90 ft ship?

Edit to avoid double post:


that giant ring is its engine and provides lift and thrust. its only physical parts are the dragonshards which are mounted at the end of each strut. Shattering any of them will kill lift causing the ship to drop out of the sky,

No dice. The hull of ship is explicitly lighter than air, even without the elemental.


Rather than require an elemental to lift a vessel into flight, soarwood from Aerenal would allow an airship to float above the ground of its own accord. Using a bound elemental only to propel it

The hull is, however made of soarwood that has been (in some unspecified manner) enhanced. We do know that it is possible to damage the hull enough to negate this.


In rare instances, significant damage to an airship's soarwood hull can negate its floating properties.

[Nerd-o-rama]

So what keeps it airborne then?

If you couldn't tell from the other responses, it depends entirely on which sourcebook you're reading.

On the other hand, it doesn't really matter if you're attacking any part of the Binding Matrix that's holding the elemental - take that out and you've killed propulsion, putting the enemy in the same position as the OP's ship and leaving them unable to do much but trade ranged weapon fire and arcane boarding parties. Take out the Khyber Shard holding the elemental itself and you also set the Elemental free, where it will probably do some great damage to the ship/crew on its way out.

I honestly think the best bet here is to start with moving your party to board an enemy ship, Charming its elemental, and using it to take out the other enemy airships. A disabled airship is useless in the short term except as a floating platform to get bombarded on, so you need something to take on the other 3 or 4 bogeys with.

[Feint's End]

During the Premade Adventure "Whispers of the Vampire's Blade" a battle of 2 airships take place. One of the factions uses skiffs (smaller ships) which have no elemental propulsion but still manage to fly on their own. I agree with Hecuba that the line concerning weight is a little iffy but other than that it seems pretty clear to me that airships (in any form) can hover and even slowly move without an elemental bound. Note that skiffs can move 150 ft straight without any form of propulsion but I believe Airships are slower without elementals.

Destroying it's engine is still a viable strategy.

[toapat]

No dice. The hull of ship is explicitly lighter than air, even without the elemental.

actually, it isnt. While soarwood still has a mass and is supposedly enchanted to be lighter then air the majority of the structure of the ship is brass (as you can see in the depiction of both ships in the books), and brass is obscenely heavy.

[icefractal]

Wait a minute - I'm going to have to look it up when I get home, but from what I remember (3.5 Eberron):
1) Soarwood is not lighter than air. In fact, there are sailing ships built out of it, which do go faster than normal sailing ships but do not in any way fly.
2) The elemental / magic item is the only thing keeping the ship airborn. Fly an airship into a dead-magic zone, and it will fall out of the sky.

What's not entirely specified is how the elemental fits into this. Fire elementals can't normally fly at all, much less carry an object as heavy as an airship while doing so. So really it's more like a magic item powered by an elemental than just the direct use of one. Which gives us a couple options:
A) The elemental is crucial to the item's operation, and the ship will fall out of the sky if it's banished.
B) The elemental provides motive power, but the magic item (the ring) provides lift even without it. Banishing the elemental just makes the airship stop in place. Breaking the item would still make it fall though.

When I was running Eberron, I ruled that the item worked somewhat like a Fly spell, in that disabling it would cause the ship to fall down at a Feather Fall speed instead of plummet and smash immediately. Otherwise, airships are just too easily sabotaged to be worth the price. This is not mentioned anywhere explicitly though, so YMMV.

[bjoern]

I'm imagining soar wood forests. When small branches die and break off rather than fall to the ground, the float up. Over time creating an airborne wall of sticks all over the sky above the forest.

[Lightlawbliss]

get rogue to the helm of one of the ships and lock the steering with disable device

[Vogonjeltz]

Pyrotechnics?

[bjoern]

Pyrotechnics?

Yeah, it does say "source of the fire is extinguished."

[Hecuba]

actually, it isnt. While soarwood still has a mass and is supposedly enchanted to be lighter then air the majority of the structure of the ship is brass (as you can see in the depiction of both ships in the books), and brass is obscenely heavy.

I agree with the fact that that the weights don't work out: even the soarwood itself is contradictory on weight. I'll even agree that the ring must be capable of generating lift (since the airship can use it to gain or drop altitude.

Nevertheless, we have a statement in the Explorer's Handbook (quote and url of excerpt provided in my last post) noting that the airship relies on the ring only for propulsion and explicitly not to remain airborne. The wood, the brass, the passengers, the 30 tons of cargo: all of it explicitly stays airborne because of the hull, not the ring.

Presumably, this is a function of the attested but unspecified floating properties that come from "strengthen[ing] the soarwood's natural properties."


Wait a minute - I'm going to have to look it up when I get home, but from what I remember (3.5 Eberron):
1) Soarwood is not lighter than air. In fact, there are sailing ships built out of it, which do go faster than normal sailing ships but do not in any way fly.
2) The elemental / magic item is the only thing keeping the ship airborn. Fly an airship into a dead-magic zone, and it will fall out of the sky.
As I noted previously, there is inconsistently in the 3.5 materials on this subject. Presumably it is handwaved by the "strengthen[ing] the soarwood's natural properties." That strengthening may indeed be magical: it's not specified. Would presume it is, since this is Eberron.

If it is, a dead magic zone would indeed drop you or of the sky.

The Explorer's Handbook explicitly tells us however, that the ring and bound elemental are for propulsion only, not staying airborne. Selectively destroying those will leave the ship airborne but stranded (exactly as the OP is now).

[unseenmage]

For our Eberron game we figured that Soarwood's lift is partially generated by how much mass of Soarwood is close to other Soarwood.

Meaning the more Soarwood you have touching other Soarwood the more lift it generates.

But that was just our homebrewed solution.
It did allow the DM to 'brew us up some skiffs that retain the larger mass's lift for a time before becoming heavy again. Basically they're a cross between a bicycle and a rowboat and a glider and they work for an few hours before they need to be put back in contact with the ship again to regain their floating properties.

[toapat]

I agree with the fact that that the weights don't work out: even the soarwood itself is contradictory on weight. I'll even agree that the ring must be capable of generating lift (since the airship can use it to gain or drop altitude.

Nevertheless, we have a statement in the Explorer's Handbook (quote and url of excerpt provided in my last post) noting that the airship relies on the ring only for propulsion and explicitly not to remain airborne. The wood, the brass, the passengers, the 30 tons of cargo: all of it explicitly stays airborne because of the hull, not the ring.

Presumably, this is a function of the attested but unspecified floating properties that come from "strengthen[ing] the soarwood's natural properties."

this is contradicted in books. the only named ship only is able to remain airborn because of having 2 rings for lift.

[RolandDeschain]

Well, massive air combat scenario part one took four hours to play four rounds(the initiative list is a page long).

My wizard spent the first round casting Wand Modulation + Feather Fall, then giving he wand to one of the low-level casting crew members to start using on all the people milling around on deck.

Round 2 he dropped a Wall of Force in front of one of the four single-ringed airships moving in to attack us = 15d6 points of damage to the ship and pilot failed his check to keep the ship under control(he succeeded the next round).

Round 3 he got off two Flashburst spells, one on each of the two ships moving in on the flanks of the ship and blinded all of the barbarian fighters preparing to board our ship. Didn't get the pilots nor the ballista crews.

Round 4 he cast Fly on himself and moved off of our disabled ship and into position to drop more battlefield control type spells on the ships preparing to board us.

Things I'm considering:

Casting Polymorph on our party rogue(10 headed hydra) and dropping him on one of the ships full of blinded targets.

Casting Charm Monster on any of the enemy ships' Elder Elementals.

I was rather disappointed in the damage done by the Wall of Force in round number 2, but my wizard has two more WoF prepared