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SixWingedAsura
2014-08-13, 01:37 PM
The thread title says it all. How do you make your players metaphorically (or literally for some cases) s**t themselves?

I was playing a Pokemon Tabletop Adventures game set as a Crime Drama, leaving slight hints of the region champion (Cynthia) all about the city, always one step ahead of them and working against them (albeit, unknowingly). It got to the point where I was able to make all of my players very nervous and quite jittery when I so much as mentioned the mere scent of her perfume.

Any other examples for you guys?

Segev
2014-08-13, 01:46 PM
I give them 2 wishes to use as they please.

Brookshw
2014-08-13, 01:54 PM
It usually starts with me smiling :smallbiggrin:

Silus
2014-08-13, 01:56 PM
With regards to my current group...

"Don't worry guys, I have a plan."

Segev
2014-08-13, 02:32 PM
Another thing I could do is ask for a listen check. When they succeed, I tell them, "Don't worry, it's nothing. It's just a wolf."

Spacebatsy
2014-08-13, 03:48 PM
It usually starts with me smiling :smallbiggrin:

this :smallamused:


And also, mentioned it before in different threads but: Sound effects
I’ve had players screaming as they’ve failed to notice the monster that now announces it’s attack with a terrible roar (cougars work nicely)
I’ve had players screaming at another PC to RUN! Simply by gradually adding crows cawing while he walked further out in a dark wildness (in his defense spotting eye-less crows that had appeared to be “watching” the group for some days contributed to that)
I’ve had players generally freaked out by the sound of a creature eating tearing and chewing at something, footsteps, doors creaking open, a soft lullaby being hummed and something that they could not identify

Good times

scurv
2014-08-13, 04:07 PM
The thread title says it all. How do you make your players metaphorically (or literally for some cases) s**t themselves?


Any other examples for you guys?

I ask for copies of their character sheets to 'stress test' a homebrew before i introduce it to them.

Jakodee
2014-08-13, 04:36 PM
Have a really hard dungeon. On the last room ask for a bunch of spot checks. Then tell them the room is empty.

saxavarius
2014-08-13, 05:00 PM
BUILD UP! Watch any older horror movie (Psycho is a good one) and notice how long it takes for anything "scary" to actually happen, but for almost the whole movie your are being slowly drawn into how creepy it seems.

Jump scare tactics don't work you gotta put in the effort and build the scene.

draken50
2014-08-13, 05:05 PM
I had two of my players begin an investigation while the third went to get food.

They were investigating a bunch of deaths that had been occurring, one player was pretty much going through the motions. She plainly assumed it was all filler to kill time until the other player got back. So the players find a shiny silver eyeglass. When one of the players looks through they see the blurry image of a naked dwarf woman. Neither player is overly intrigued, and place it in their pack as an oddity to sell later.

They continue on their way to a blacksmiths forge that had practically exploded when lit in the morning, burning him quite badly. They were pointed to the local police, as the constable's wizard had already investigated and mentioned some theories related to "fo-ser-puss?" After arriving at the watch house and heading up stairs to talk to the wizard. The wizard explained that it was caused by a sort of chemical compound, and this injury and other reported deaths seem related to a cult dedicated to a prankster god that had been turned insane. One of the players then brings up the eyeglass they found and hands it to the dwarven wizard, who in turn whistles appreciatively and turns the mechanism to bring the image into focus.

The players hear a wet "Thunk" and blood runs down from the eyeglass as the wizard collapses, dead, blood dripping down from his eye, where his lifeless hands still clutch the eyeglass.

Both of my players turned white, covered their mouths with their hands, looked at each other, and promptly freaked the hell out. "Is there a window we can jump out of!?" "Crap! all the guards saw us come in!" "WhatdowedoWhatdowedoWhatdowedo?" "I DON'T KNOW!!!"

It... was... awesome...

(Un)Inspired
2014-08-13, 05:13 PM
My players were being led into a trap by a murder. The killer knew that she couldn't take the pcs in a head on fight so she was nude rearing townsfolk to lure the pcs into a trap.

The party followed tracks she had left to a sleepy little house on the edge of town. They knew it was a trap. They knew she was somewhere in the house. They knew she was waiting for them.

I had the lights around our gaming table turned down low and the party started getting anxious as they were exploring a decrepit wine cellar beneath the house.

What my party didn't know was that I had my little brother hide in the closet near our gaming table while the party took a break for dinner.

In the middle of their cellar exploration my brother burst out of the closet and scare the ever loving crap out of them.

Jay R
2014-08-13, 05:24 PM
"Nothing apparent happens."

the OOD
2014-08-14, 01:05 PM
this :smallamused:


And also, mentioned it before in different threads but: Sound effects
I’ve had players screaming as they’ve failed to notice the monster that now announces it’s attack with a terrible roar (cougars work nicely)
I’ve had players screaming at another PC to RUN! Simply by gradually adding crows cawing while he walked further out in a dark wildness (in his defense spotting eye-less crows that had appeared to be “watching” the group for some days contributed to that)
I’ve had players generally freaked out by the sound of a creature eating tearing and chewing at something, footsteps, doors creaking open, a soft lullaby being hummed and something that they could not identify

Good times

you have mentioned the crows before (in another thread) and it sounds wonderful! can you share what sound software you were using to adjust separate sounds?

Lord Torath
2014-08-14, 01:43 PM
Weeping Angels. And my kids haven't even seen "Blink." (Yes, I DM for my kids).

I had them terrified to pass a portion of woodland trail with rustling noises and half-seen shadows.

kyoryu
2014-08-14, 02:06 PM
Powerlessness.

Since a game built on overall powerlessness is going to suck a lot, it's probably better to make something that the players cannot directly oppose, but they *can* evade (or possibly move against in a more indirect way).

Powerlessness doesn't just have to be bigger numbers, either - an enemy that is *always* one step ahead of them can have the same impact. But you need the players thinking "we can't win here" if you want them to be scared. As soon as they think "we can beat them", terror goes byebye.

Red Fel
2014-08-14, 02:13 PM
Powerlessness.

This.

I've said it before, I'll say it again: I find the best way to terrify the players is to remove their characters as intermediaries.

Whether they're fighting dragons, infiltrating a megacorp, or piloting their way through a hostile sector, the players can rest comfortable in the knowledge that between them and certain death is a list of numbers and words known as a character. As long as that character exists as a mechanical construct, the player has nothing to fear.

So I make the mechanics irrelevant.

I invent a scene in which the characters' powers and skills are meaningless. Where being able to throw a fireball won't help you. Where knowing seventeen ways to disable an opponent with your thumb won't accomplish anything. Where thermal imaging and sub-sonic scans reveal nothing.

I create scenes where the players know something is off. It's creepy. The wind rattles through the rafters. The ship's engines grind ominously. Comms are picking up unusual static. All perfectly explicable, all nonetheless creepy. I have my players run checks - Knowledge, Spot, Listen, Perception - and turn up nothing unusual.

All that power, all that knowledge, all of their abilities and skills and experience - and it's useless against atmosphere.

And just like that, the entire construct of the character vanishes. It's no longer a comforting shield of numbers and words between the players and this little mental world I've constructed - it's just the players, alone, defenseless, and frightened.

valadil
2014-08-14, 02:17 PM
1. The unknown. My players know the rules inside and out. Throw some rule defying horror at them that comes from your sadistic mind, not a sanctioned WotC source book.

2. Close brushes with death. I don't mean combats that they barely survive. I mean let them bump into some strange situation. Only when they've gotten out of it let them figure out what it was. I'm thinking the hobbits hiding from the black riders and then finding out what Nazgul are. I've seen players get goosebumps when this is done right.

Millennium
2014-08-14, 03:01 PM
It usually starts with me smiling :smallbiggrin:
I tend to throw in an "Eeeexcellent" with folded hands, like some twisted cross between Mr. Burns and Gendo Ikari.

jedipotter
2014-08-14, 03:35 PM
Any other examples for you guys?

1. Character Death. This is a great one. Let the players know: your character might die, at any time.

2. Random Rolls. This is a great unknown. And the idea that a single roll might cause something bad....

3. No information. I reduce the usefulness of things like knowledge rolls or any other game way for a character to get free information. The unknown is scary by it self, but it also sets up the following...

4. The unknown. When you don't know what something is, a mind and make up all sorts of things. This works really well in games with even medium rules. A player takes great comfort knowing what a thing or creature is, and knowing what might or might not happen rule wise. But take that comfort away....

5. Powerlessness. Not only ''in character'', but also ''playing the game''.

It goes without saying, I run a terrifying game. And that is what makes it great fun.

Segev
2014-08-14, 04:13 PM
1. Character Death. This is a great one. Let the players know: your character might die, at any time.

2. Random Rolls. This is a great unknown. And the idea that a single roll might cause something bad....

3. No information. I reduce the usefulness of things like knowledge rolls or any other game way for a character to get free information. The unknown is scary by it self, but it also sets up the following...

4. The unknown. When you don't know what something is, a mind and make up all sorts of things. This works really well in games with even medium rules. A player takes great comfort knowing what a thing or creature is, and knowing what might or might not happen rule wise. But take that comfort away....

5. Powerlessness. Not only ''in character'', but also ''playing the game''.

It goes without saying, I run a terrifying game. And that is what makes it great fun.

Sorry, none of this is horror-inducing. It isn't atmosphere-creating. It's just frustrating and anti-immersive. "What's this we're facing?" "You don't know!" "Okay, what's it doing?" "Attacking you with its [description of things]." "So it's a [whatever]?" "Stop metagaming, and no." "Okay, um... I use my ability?" "You died because you guessed the wrong ability to use." "Well, that's lame. Let me get out my next character sheet..."

It's just a frustrating grind. There's no fear; I know from the get-go that trying to do anything is futile.

Horror movies stop being horrifying when the characters give up hope. Hope, and a sense that you CAN do SOMETHING meaningful, but it's hard and risky, is critical. Your description of how you run your games lacks this. It is just waiting for the DM to decide how you're going to die this time. It honestly sounds like it has more in common with Numberwang meets Dokuro-chan than, say, Mirrors.

Angelalex242
2014-08-14, 05:04 PM
Abusing character death leads to a 'tomb of horrors' mindset.

Characters become disposable commodities, and players get detached from their characters.

"Tell me who your character's parents are." "Why should I care, he's gonna die in 15 minutes anyway..."

You might get away with demanding extensive background the first time, but the second or third time a character dies and doesn't get rezzed, the player starts calling his character 'redshirt' with no background whatever.

That said, you don't have to terrify people with lack of knowledge. Perfect knowledge of 'inappropriate ECL for our level' is just as good.

You see a Beholder.

But we're only level 4.

I know. :smallbiggrin:

kyoryu
2014-08-14, 05:06 PM
Abusing character death leads to a 'tomb of horrors' mindset.

Characters become disposable commodities, and players get detached from their characters.

"Tell me who your character's parents are." "Why should I care, he's gonna die in 15 minutes anyway..."

You might get away with demanding extensive background the first time, but the second or third time a character dies and doesn't get rezzed, the player starts calling his character 'redshirt' with no background whatever.

On the other side, if characters succeed at everything they accomplish, all of the time, there's no tension or excitement in the game.

It's almost like there's an excluded middle.

Angelalex242
2014-08-14, 05:14 PM
There is an excluded middle...

And that middle, I think, is NPC death.

If you demanded a 5 page background, you don't have failure to do X kill the PCs off, you kill off Family Member A. Or lover B. Or child C, if they're parents.

This is similar to the concept, in Order of the Stick, of the Black Dragon threatening Vaarsuvius's spouse and children. This led to a deal with the devil, because V got that scared.

Then again, overdoing that leads to the very common perception of "NPC stands for No Point Crying."

Silus
2014-08-14, 05:55 PM
Clever use of a Modify Memory spell and Suggestion. Start screwing with the PCs with what they know, what they don't know, and what they don't know they don't know.

As petty as it sounds, I'm gonna pull this in my campaign as way of revenge on some of the PCs who pulled a similar thing on me during our Palladium game.

jedipotter
2014-08-14, 07:06 PM
Sorry, none of this is horror-inducing. It isn't atmosphere-creating. It's just frustrating and anti-immersive. "What's this we're facing?" "You don't know!" "Okay, what's it doing?" "Attacking you with its [description of things]." "So it's a [whatever]?" "Stop metagaming, and no." "Okay, um... I use my ability?" "You died because you guessed the wrong ability to use." "Well, that's lame. Let me get out my next character sheet..."


It's only frustrating and anti-immersive to the problem player. Your paragraph describes just that type of person, and what will likely happen in my game. But only to the problem player. The good player has no problem.

Angelalex242
2014-08-14, 07:07 PM
All of that is based on a will save...so the party cleric, especially, is going to laugh at that. Possibly the party Paladin too, especially in Pathfinder. And if you arbitrarily rule all the saving throws to be natural 1s, expect player revolt.

kyoryu
2014-08-14, 07:23 PM
There is an excluded middle...

And that middle, I think, is NPC death.

So, PCs should never ever ever die?

That seems to be what you're saying. Is it?

Angelalex242
2014-08-14, 07:27 PM
Nah. They should die when they want to, mostly. If my Paladin dies, it shouldn't be by accident. Rather, I want him to die singlehandedly fighting off hordes of demons straight from the Abyss while the Casters seal the portal behind him. Ya know. Book of Exalted Deeds 'martyrdom' type stuff.

Player:*rolls percentile dice* And my paladin that was left behind killed...43 demons before they finally take him down. Cool.

kyoryu
2014-08-14, 07:48 PM
Nah. They should die when they want to, mostly. If my Paladin dies, it shouldn't be by accident. Rather, I want him to die singlehandedly fighting off hordes of demons straight from the Abyss while the Casters seal the portal behind him. Ya know. Book of Exalted Deeds 'martyrdom' type stuff.

Player:*rolls percentile dice* And my paladin that was left behind killed...43 demons before they finally take him down. Cool.

So, PCs should only die when the player says they can?

And if the player doesn't say they can, then they should be unable to die?

Angelalex242
2014-08-14, 08:02 PM
Well, PCs are like characters in a novel. They die when they're supposed to die, not, ideally, by random accident. Nobody wins when the player dies in a random encounter because he rolled a natural 1 at the wrong time.

jedipotter
2014-08-14, 08:16 PM
Well, PCs are like characters in a novel. They die when they're supposed to die, not, ideally, by random accident. Nobody wins when the player dies in a random encounter because he rolled a natural 1 at the wrong time.

See, this would be a very non-terrifing game. And it's just fine. It's like watching a Disney movie....you know nothing ''too bad'' will happen. It's fine for a light hearted game.

But real terror needs death. Random death.

Angelalex242
2014-08-14, 09:00 PM
Doesn't need to be Disney Movie.

Most any heroic fantasy movie will do.

Boromir does not die 'randomly.' No indeed.

In King Arthur movies, characters die when Alfred Tennyson says they do, and not a moment sooner.

And ya know...even in most slasher films, characters do not die randomly. The bad guy picks a character out, then chases them down. It more resembles sending a beholder after a level 4 party then it does 'random death.'

Sir_Leorik
2014-08-14, 09:09 PM
Find out what scares your players. Then use that in the game. I was running a Ravenloft campaign last year, and the villains of the first adventure were a pair of Red Widows (shapechanging spider-women). One of the players was arachnophobic, though I wasn't aware of that before the game session. But he made the mistake of telling me and the other players about his fear of spiders during a combat with a swarm of spiders. So I described in detail the skittering of the swarm, mentioned the size of the webs the Red Widows had spun, described the desiccated husks of men and Reavers (Sahaugin-like sea monsters) left in the webs... It definitely scared him.

If a player is scared of heights, require her PC to scale a mountain or cross a swaying rope bridge. Afraid of rats? Rat swarms! And of course, there's Triskadekaphobia! Schedule the game session on a Friday the 13th! Of course if the player is getting really uncomfortable, pause the game and let everyone take a break. It is, after all, just a game.

Sir_Leorik
2014-08-14, 09:14 PM
See, this would be a very non-terrifing game. And it's just fine. It's like watching a Disney movie....you know nothing ''too bad'' will happen. It's fine for a light hearted game.

But real terror needs death. Random death.

Real terror needs the possibility of death. If the players are confident you won't kill them, they'll act like their PCs are invincible. You don't need to randomly kill them, but you need to indicate that they are in danger, and that the dice will be allowed to fall where they may.

That being said, there are other ways to scare someone other than fear of death. Mind games, making the PCs question who they are, attacking their loved ones; these are all effective ways of ramping up the tension in a game.

Likewise the lighting in the room, the music you play during the game, the use of sound effects and props, can all create a scarier atmosphere. They go a long way to unnerving your players, without needing to kill off a PC.

Esprit15
2014-08-14, 11:11 PM
My GM last semester was good at making a game scary. "Okay, so your Thri-Kreen is going I have to prove himself to take over his tribe. First challenge is going to be a fight with some monsters that will attack this point." What's the worst that could happen? Third round: Gigantic scorpion. There was much panic.

Best moment though, I described before: Our party was at the final battle of the game. GM tossed us a super healbot of a cleric. We hear a scream from the wall where he was watching and the familiar voice of the recurring BBEG. NPC death can absolutely become scary when you have the NPC's working with you for extended periods. They become part of the party, they help you in battle and save your life. Their death is just as scary as PC death because it shows what can happen to you in this fight, and it avoids the problem of a player getting upset about death. They can absolutely still be killed, but the sudden jarring "From the far end of the wall, you hear a familiar, feline roar, followed by Thury giving out a cry. *BBEG laugh* A voice you've run into too many times calls from the end of the wall: 'Hello, cart drivers,'" works well for setting the mood. Nobody has died, yet, but it is very much a possibility.

Diachronos
2014-08-15, 12:40 AM
One of my friends is a really creative DM. And, oddly, a lot of his best (and scariest) ideas come to him when he's in a certain place doing a certain thing.

You never want this DM to say "I just had an idea" when he gets back from the bathroom.

jedipotter
2014-08-15, 12:59 AM
Doesn't need to be Disney Movie.

Most any heroic fantasy movie will do.

Boromir does not die 'randomly.' No indeed.

In King Arthur movies, characters die when Alfred Tennyson says they do, and not a moment sooner.

And ya know...even in most slasher films, characters do not die randomly. The bad guy picks a character out, then chases them down. It more resembles sending a beholder after a level 4 party then it does 'random death.'

Most fiction does not have random death. Even 'slasher' films. They are all boring, safe fiction. It is what most people like in fiction: no death, but ''sort of pretending'' it ''might happen''(but never does).

Esprit15
2014-08-15, 01:16 AM
Most fiction does not have random death. Even 'slasher' films. They are all boring, safe fiction. It is what most people like in fiction: no death, but ''sort of pretending'' it ''might happen''(but never does).

Imagine that: People like it, that's what the fiction they create has. And there's nothing wrong with it. Some people like Attack on Titan, so their games show that. That's fine, so long as everyone knows what they are getting into.

Gamgee
2014-08-15, 01:31 AM
Randomly look like your rolling the dice. Even if its not for anything at all. (I think I got this one form a GM on here or another forum. Thanks for the tip.)

Pass notes with nothing on them or a joke for the player. And dont let the other see it.

Smile evilly.

Say the word nerf.

Edit
My players are now pretty paranoid. I've gotten real good at it. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=50agA5EPJfo) To the point they dread a lot of my unpredictability. It also helps that I can improvise extremely well when it comes to actions and consequences. So there is always the chance of something horrible happening.

jedipotter
2014-08-15, 01:38 AM
Imagine that: People like it, that's what the fiction they create has. And there's nothing wrong with it. Some people like Attack on Titan, so their games show that. That's fine, so long as everyone knows what they are getting into.

Sure lots of people like the false danger in fiction. They like to ''pretend'' the danger is ''real'' in the fiction, and like to forget that it is all fake and made to be rated G or worse.

But a role playing game can be so much more...with pure terror.

Prince Raven
2014-08-15, 01:47 AM
After they make a decision roll a die, stare at the number and go "hmm, interesting".

Creepy music is always good.

Gamgee
2014-08-15, 01:59 AM
As for myself on the other spectrum? It's pretty hard. I'm not one of those easy to crack people. My GM can scare the others into inaction and I have to crack the whip and put boot to ass and put the spine back in them.

Our bridge was taken over by warp ghosts or spirits of some kind in Rogue Trader. Everyone was terrified to go in and hadn't even failed a will save. So I ask my men who wants to go in and they all cower. So what do I do?

Grab the heavy blessed flamethrower myself (I'm a ****ty shot) and charge into the darkness myself (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uDjZceUNr3E). Ordering the cowards in after me, or I would defeat the ghosts myself. That put some spine into them. Also we were close to a death per session at this point (40k) so people had genuine reason to be afraid.

Consequently my characters are usually high willpower to match mine. I've held my team together against extreme odds, including them witnessing a deamonic possession of a close friend which made them take a huge willpower penalty on a fear test.

Same guy who saved and conquered a planet with his wits, the autoquill, his right hand senechal, and his trusty sidearms bolt pistol and plasma pistol. Killed the planetary governor and planetary general in one quick meeting (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vU8eL2CjzHw). The spoils from this one planet are so rich I could probably afford a cruiser a huge jump up from my meager Frigate. On top of this the Imperial Navy is in debt to me for saving their planet, stopping a Wagggh, and saving one of their prized Captains.

When it came time for the climactic battle with the orc warboss on his ship I had disabled. What did I choose to do? I blasted it to pieces. Why would I be such a fool to fight the boss in his own turf. The GM was extremely upset that I decided to just blow the ork ship away with the power of my fleet.

On top of this I was so badass I was willing to walk into a Dark Eldar ship and bargain with them for some of their Khymera warp beasts I was going to use as a shock weapon against my enemies.

Entire crew intimidated by an Inquisitor. All I want to do is get her name, hunt her down, and get our stuff back as soon as I have the means to do so. And see if she really is an Inquisitor. I had my doubts. She took a Tau Shield drone, and a shipment of Pulse Rifles I wanted for my crew. It's telling when the "Inquisitor" is worried about what you'll do.

I don't get scared. I scare the GM.

Jay R
2014-08-15, 11:05 AM
Sorry, none of this is horror-inducing. It isn't atmosphere-creating. It's just frustrating and anti-immersive. "What's this we're facing?" "You don't know!" "Okay, what's it doing?" "Attacking you with its [description of things]." "So it's a [whatever]?" "Stop metagaming, and no." "Okay, um... I use my ability?" "You died because you guessed the wrong ability to use." "Well, that's lame. Let me get out my next character sheet..."

It's just a frustrating grind. There's no fear; I know from the get-go that trying to do anything is futile.

Horror movies stop being horrifying when the characters give up hope. Hope, and a sense that you CAN do SOMETHING meaningful, but it's hard and risky, is critical. Your description of how you run your games lacks this. It is just waiting for the DM to decide how you're going to die this time. It honestly sounds like it has more in common with Numberwang meets Dokuro-chan than, say, Mirrors.

Fascinating. You have given a detailed description of a game you've never seen, complete with quotations, based only on a previous description of it, while telling the person who has seen the game that the description he or she gave is wrong - when that description is the only knowledge you have of the game.

Note that you claim the description of the game lacks hope - but there is no description at all of the player's state of hopefulness.

Even if you don't want to play in it, will you at least consider the theoretical possibility that a game might be atmosphere-inducing and immersive even with random rolls, unknown dangers, and possible character deaths?


Well, PCs are like characters in a novel. They die when they're supposed to die, not, ideally, by random accident. Nobody wins when the player dies in a random encounter because he rolled a natural 1 at the wrong time.

That is certainly one view. Other people think that the characters in this game are like, well, characters in a game. They die when the other side kills them.

Nobody wins or loses if the players survives only because there was no way for them to not survive.

"If you can't lose, it's not a game."

I'm not saying that this is the only view of D&D. I'm denying your statement that a novel is the only view of D&D by showing another one.

Raimun
2014-08-15, 11:40 AM
Beats me.

I've never been terrified in a game.

Most games aren't terrifying, even if they are exciting or unpredictable. Those games where the GM tries to make it terrifying just ain't. If I'm supposed to play what is basically a horror movie victim, how can that terrify me if I already know on some level there is a very good chance to die or worse?

Instead, it most likely inspires me to go in a blaze of glory. If I'm lucky my bravado might be just enough to go through the obstacle, I kill before I'm killed and the day is saved. If I'm not lucky I'll get an awesome Boromir-esque moment. This assumes there is a chance of success.

However, if there's no chance of success, the element of unpredictability is gone with the terror and it's replaced by boredom. If things can only lead to total defeat, it's a foregone conclusion and you only feel pity for your character.

Of course, one could try outsquicking the players but all that would accomplish is that the players find the inner workings of the GM's head terrifying and not the actual game itself.

DM Nate
2014-08-15, 12:13 PM
One of my friends is a really creative DM. And, oddly, a lot of his best (and scariest) ideas come to him when he's in a certain place doing a certain thing.

You never want this DM to say "I just had an idea" when he gets back from the bathroom.

Man, I thought I was the only one.

Also, I do most of my session planning in that state in-between wakefulness and sleep, when random thoughts come freely. It also helps me find the right elements for atmosphere.

I never try to terrify my players. I just try to unsettle them. That's a lot more achievable, and still just as memorable.

Jay R
2014-08-15, 12:20 PM
Doesn't need to be Disney Movie.

Most any heroic fantasy movie will do.

Boromir does not die 'randomly.' No indeed.

In King Arthur movies, characters die when Alfred Tennyson says they do, and not a moment sooner.

And ya know...even in most slasher films, characters do not die randomly. The bad guy picks a character out, then chases them down. It more resembles sending a beholder after a level 4 party then it does 'random death.'

Applying This argument only to deaths is invalid logic, because it doesn't only apply to deaths.

It is equally true that each weapon strike hits or misses when the author says that they do. They do not hit 'randomly.' No indeed.

Every diplomatic argument that works, every lock that is picked, every wall that is climbed, every single action of any sort that succeeds, succeeds only because the DM author decides that it does. They do not succeed 'randomly.' No indeed.

Gandalf solves the riddle, Gollum convinces Frodo to spare him, Aragorn tracks the orcs, Sam beats the spider, Pippin finds Gandalf, when Tolkien says they do, and not a moment sooner

So if you find this argument convincing, then you will never roll any dice at all, for any reason.

But if you are willing to accept that the success of a sword strike is random, and roll a "to-hit" roll, and if you are willing to accept that the amount of damage it does is random, and you roll a damage roll, then the argument above gives no logical justification for not applying that roll consistently, even if it knocks a PC down to -10 hit points.

Grim Portent
2014-08-15, 12:29 PM
Genestealers.

How do my GMs scare me in turn?

Genestealers.

kyoryu
2014-08-15, 01:38 PM
But if you are willing to accept that the success of a sword strike is random, and roll a "to-hit" roll, and if you are willing to accept that the amount of damage it does is random, and you roll a damage roll, then the argument above gives no logical justification for not applying that roll consistently, even if it knocks a PC down to -10 hit points.

Exactly. "I don't like random PC death" is a fine argument, you don't need to find a principle to back it up.

That said, there's definitely a middle ground where you can discuss what the appropriate frequency, circumstances, and likelihood of PC death are.

Palegreenpants
2014-08-15, 04:59 PM
Genestealers.

How do my GMs scare me in turn?

Genestealers.

Genestealers *shudder.*

Anyway, I tend to accidentally scare my players. I have, however, made a list of what has scared them the most.

1. They are afraid of large spaces (no idea why,) and seriously awesome boss monsters. For example, one of my players had his monk killed by a Naussian Relic warrior, who backhanded him unconscious, and burned him to death with eldritch fire. This PK took place in a very large space.

2. My players are terrified of this phrase: "Place to be forgotten, Things to be forgotten." Every time they have seen or heard this phrase, one of their characters has died within the session. That's what I call conditioning.

3. Finally, they fear holes in walls. This is because they are frequently and horribly attacked by giant species of Toothy Worm while passing by these holes. Thusly, the players accuse me of having a worm fetish.

Tweekinator
2014-08-15, 09:54 PM
I terrify my players by putting their lives at risk.

jedipotter
2014-08-15, 10:01 PM
I terrify my players by putting their lives at risk.

Um....putting your players lives at risk?

Tweekinator
2014-08-15, 10:10 PM
Um....putting your players lives at risk?

That's what those words say.

Segev
2014-08-15, 10:34 PM
It's only frustrating and anti-immersive to the problem player. Your paragraph describes just that type of person, and what will likely happen in my game. But only to the problem player. The good player has no problem.

So, if I understand you, players who have any issue with your GMing style, and who do not respond as you expect them to emotionally, are problem players. That's your definition: if they don't do what you want them to on every level, including emotional reaction as you dictate, they're problem players.

If I don't understand you, then I am not sure where the line is drawn.

Seriously, "wanting to use your character's abilities," and "not being able to read the GM's mind," don't make you a "problem player." And, if you go along with all of that, but respond by being emotionally distant from it because it basically is futile to bother trying, that's not a problem player. That's a player who's been told that the only thing that matters is the DM's whim.

But it's even worse than a fiction where the writer decides who lives and who dies; it lacks the atmosphere.


And yes, I am assuming a lack of atmosphere. Jedipotter stated his techniques are about randomness and high lethality and not permitting players to use their character's abilities as the rules say they should. This is how he creates fear. He mentioned nothing about atmosphere; he said "the unknown is scary, and knowing you can die at any moment is scary." Sadly, that's not true when playing a game.

Prince Raven
2014-08-15, 10:50 PM
Genestealers.

How do my GMs scare me in turn?

Genestealers.

The merest mention of genestealers terrifies my players, just saying that a genestealer cult has been uncovered on the other side of the sector gets them nervous.

Oddly enough, they've yet to actually encounter any genestealers.

jedipotter
2014-08-15, 11:41 PM
So, if I understand you, players who have any issue with your GMing style, and who do not respond as you expect them to emotionally, are problem players. That's your definition: if they don't do what you want them to on every level, including emotional reaction as you dictate, they're problem players.

If I don't understand you, then I am not sure where the line is drawn..

Well, yes, if a player has an ''issue'' they must take it up outside the game. They may not ground the game to a halt and whine and complain. I don't think I care about ''emotions'', they just have to respond.







Seriously, "wanting to use your character's abilities," and "not being able to read the GM's mind," don't make you a "problem player." And, if you go along with all of that, but respond by being emotionally distant from it because it basically is futile to bother trying, that's not a problem player. That's a player who's been told that the only thing that matters is the DM's whim.

But it's even worse than a fiction where the writer decides who lives and who dies; it lacks the atmosphere.

There is nothing wrong with using a characters abilities....I wish they would use them to fight the monster and not do skill checks to get free information though.

I don't want players to read my mind. I'm not sure where the ''whim'' comes from...



And yes, I am assuming a lack of atmosphere. Jedipotter stated his techniques are about randomness and high lethality and not permitting players to use their character's abilities as the rules say they should. This is how he creates fear. He mentioned nothing about atmosphere; he said "the unknown is scary, and knowing you can die at any moment is scary." Sadly, that's not true when playing a game.

It's accurate to say I have houserules that ''don't let a player use/do everything they can in a by-the-book game.''

Character death is scary. Lots of players don't want that to happen to a character....and they get quite scared if it is a possibility.

And the unknown is very scary. The ''average gamer'' at best freaks out when encounting the unknown, and at worst gets very scared.

If by ''atmosphere'' your talking low lights and scary music....then no, I don't do that.

Arbane
2014-08-16, 01:13 AM
Sure lots of people like the false danger in fiction. They like to ''pretend'' the danger is ''real'' in the fiction, and like to forget that it is all fake and made to be rated G or worse.

But a role playing game can be so much more...with pure terror.

Dude, it's a game. All your 'RANDOM DEATH ANYWHERE ANYTIME' is going to produce is either apathy, or paranoia-style black humor. There's only so many scares you can wring out of a peril once players have had apathy in the face of random death beaten into them.


There is nothing wrong with using a characters abilities....I wish they would use them to fight the monster and not do skill checks to get free information though.

I do NOT understand what your problem is with letting players use the skills they spent points on to get information about the world their characters are in. But this is not the place to have THAT argument again.

raspberrybadger
2014-08-16, 02:50 AM
Best thing to scare players with - the realization on their part that you are giving them enough rope to hang themselves with, and that their character's death, fate worse than death, or what have you will be entirely their fault. Mix that with creepy atmosphere, creepy offers of even creepier aid, and evidence that far more wise and powerful beings fear certain things they are only just now learning about, and you can get real fear. It helps to have players with imagination though - without that, I think you'd need a PC death (or worse) at least every once in a while just to give them an idea what is being threatened.

jedipotter
2014-08-16, 02:59 PM
Dude, it's a game. All your 'RANDOM DEATH ANYWHERE ANYTIME' is going to produce is either apathy, or paranoia-style black humor. There's only so many scares you can wring out of a peril once players have had apathy in the face of random death beaten into them.

Well remember it's ''all the time'' when in dangerous events. It's not like ''Oh Ponal walks across the road and dies''. Not just combat, but anything dangerous.






I do NOT understand what your problem is with letting players use the skills they spent points on to get information about the world their characters are in. But this is not the place to have THAT argument again.

I just don't like giving away free information. And I like clueless characters.

SixWingedAsura
2014-08-16, 04:03 PM
In my (admittedly lacking) experience, terrifying players doesn't necessarily have to come from something big. Players get jumpy and nervous and cautious when you introduce an NPC of much renown power who is working against them unknowingly, and having said NPC being friendly or even helpful. This gets nerve-wracking because while the NPC is being nice, all it'll take is one wrong step, or one wrong word and suddenly the threat of character death DOES become real. You don't give them a guaranteed death, you give them a very possible death, one that can only be avoided with the most cautious of acts. Even if the meeting goes totally well, as long as the players know who they were dealing with, it's still a scenario regarded with almost dread.

Segev
2014-08-16, 04:17 PM
Well, yes, if a player has an ''issue'' they must take it up outside the game. They may not ground the game to a halt and whine and complain.We agree here! ^_^


I don't think I care about ''emotions'', they just have to respond.Perhaps I am misunderstanding something you said earlier, then. When I indicated that I would not feel fear from your DMing style, merely frustration and disengagement, you indicated that I was a textbook "problem player." Is this not because I would not respond emotionally the way you expect me to?


There is nothing wrong with using a characters abilities....I wish they would use them to fight the monster and not do skill checks to get free information though.Define "free" information. Do you at least tell your players not to bother taking the knowledge skills in question so they don't waste resources on something you won't let them use?

I will note that this still isn't scary. It's just reduced it to a guessing game rather than a tactics game. And I'll still figure it out if I remain interested enough to keep trying to fight your monster. Unless I guess wrong too many times before I guess right, and I die, in which case I may have to make a new PC. Knowing that this is a high probability, I stop being afraid of my PCs dying, because I know they're not worth becoming invested in emotionally. Doing so is a waste of emotional effort, because I won't get to keep the PC for very long.


I don't want players to read my mind. I'm not sure where the ''whim'' comes from...You indicate that failure to respond the way you want them to is a sign of a "problem player." Perhaps I am misreading something.


Character death is scary. Lots of players don't want that to happen to a character....and they get quite scared if it is a possibility. If they're emotionally invested in their character, sure. But that quickly stops being the case when the characters die too easily and frequently. If life is cheap, having your next character around the corner is normal and expected, and it stops being scary.

When my character is as likely to die because I guessed wrong when I tried to play him wisely as he is if I charge in and make my guesses like a Red creature in M:tG, it's just not worth being scared of his death. He's going to die soon anyway, and there's nothing I can do about it.


And the unknown is very scary. The ''average gamer'' at best freaks out when encounting the unknown, and at worst gets very scared.Not...really. You're conflating "I don't know what this monster is; best take standard attack approaches until I discover its quirks" with "spookiness." I know, you're not thinking necessarily in terms of "spookiness," but that's what you're going for if you want players to actually be afraid. "I don't know what this is; I just know that I have a 0.5^(number of rounds) chance of dying in this fight and having to bring in another character," doesn't make people scared. It might, the first time, but after the 4th or 5th character in as many sessions, players get numb to that kind of thing.

The unknown is scary because it's a change from the norm. It is stumbling blindly in the dark with real sense of consequence. When characters' lives are cheap, they're not of consequence. When every fight is really just "hit it as hard as you can, because we don't know anything about it to make different tactics worthwhile," at best you've created a puzzle fight. This may not be a bad thing! Puzzle fights, where the challenge is as much in figuring out HOW to hurt it (and how not to die), can be great fun! But they're not "scary." If PCs' lives are cheap, it's mildly frustrating to lose one in such a fight, but not frightening. You just bring out the next one.

If you want scary, you need the unknown to be of greater consequence than "yet another fight we can't prepare for." That's still "big damn heroes" territory. What you want, for scary, is atmosphere.

If by ''atmosphere'' your talking low lights and scary music....then no, I don't do that.
Nope! I mean the atmosphere of the telling of what's going on. I, personally, find low lights and scary music and other OOC efforts at "atmosphere" to be comedic and cheesy, at best. So that doesn't work.

Atmosphere is about storytelling. It's about how you present things. Frightening/spooky atmosphere is about the unknown in the form of not even knowing where the monster is. It's about not knowing when or how the danger will strike. The tension is high but unresolved because you don't know if it's "go time" yet. Races against the clock are scarier when you don't know when the clock will run out, but that it's ticking closer the longer you take. But when you actually are facing the monster, it's not "scary" in that sense anymore. Combat is what PCs in most RPGs do. Even against a "mysterious" creature the players are not given enough information to identify, they still have a target.

Once you have a target to attack, you're out of "the unknown." You know which and where, even if you can't quite say what. Now it's just another problem to solve by violence.


I'm not claiming you CANNOT induce fear with the threat of PC death, but you have to have PC death be something rare enough that investing emotionally in the character is worthwhile. You have to let the wounds from the last one heal, and inflict the new ones in a fresh and vulnerable place, lest scar tissue grow numb to it. If you can do that, the threat of PC death can get scary, especially if you've shown it CAN happen while managing to do it relatively rarely. But it's hardly the best way to induce fear in one's players.

Jacob.Tyr
2014-08-16, 04:50 PM
Yeah, there isn't anything scary about the "unknown" monster you're currently sticking a sword in. That said if you have some knowledge (cheese) character, I don't think there's anything wrong with not letting them immediately identify everything they encounter. It just isn't particularly scary to fight a thing you haven't made a a knowledge check to identify, though.

Something snatching up NPCs in the dungeon I'm currently trying to escape from? Great for terror. Monster in the Darkness and all that. Keep that umbrella up! I heartily encourage having throw-away PC's as well, if you can. Someone who starts with a quickly made character that you kill off in the start. Have them work with you, and don't let the other players know what is going on. When they die, apologize and offer to find a way to introduce a new character for them.

Dying to a monster I'm not allowed to know the name of but fought for a few rounds? Eh, it happens.

This thread seems to be divided between DM-cackling "scares" and actual terror games, though. The former just annoys me in most cases, especially since it tends to crop up in bog-standard fantasy instead of horror games. If I need to be worried about my character dying every time the DM rolls, I'm going to stop caring about the game. A roll from the DM should induce excitement, you should want to know where the story is going and what is going to happen.

Samshiir
2014-08-16, 04:54 PM
I ask one of my players where his characters family lives. No, don't bother coming up with stats for them.

Spacebatsy
2014-08-17, 04:03 AM
I have a hard time understanding the character death debate when related to horror. To me a terrifying setting is all about tension. When you actually get into combat the tension is released, whatever lurking monster that haunted you is now explained and mortal, even if you don’t know what it is. If the setting itself is terrifying then combat is a pause from it, where you can deal with something you understand and mostly out of character (this is a personal experience since I always have a hard time getting immersed when dices are rolling and HP is being calculated, it may not be shared by everyone)
The closest combat get me is anxiety. If I like my character then naturally I don’t want it to die, but the amount of emotional investment I make into a character is based on how long I expect it to survive. If I’m in a game where characters drop every other session then I’m not going to care much for my character and thus feel even less anxious, making character death hold less of an impact.

I realize now it’s pretty much:


I'm not claiming you CANNOT induce fear with the threat of PC death, but you have to have PC death be something rare enough that investing emotionally in the character is worthwhile. You have to let the wounds from the last one heal, and inflict the new ones in a fresh and vulnerable place, lest scar tissue grow numb to it. If you can do that, the threat of PC death can get scary, especially if you've shown it CAN happen while managing to do it relatively rarely. But it's hardly the best way to induce fear in one's players.

Things that have scared me in non-explicit games are foremost large bodies of water. Drop my character in deep water (even if it can swim and even if nothing indicates that something lurks below me) and I’ll freak out. Don’t know where that originated. Oh wait, I do! (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3D4AA_l6c3w)
All my characters tend to follow one rule: Any water or fluid that reaches over the ankles is too deep to enter. I have never found a reason to think otherwise.

I had one GM who was particular good at creating tension in subtle ways. Something about his voice and how he choose to describe certain details. Anyway manage to make quite mundane things scary because of this. He made one player (not character) scream out load at the glimpse of a cleaning droid for example.
Me he freaked out when I was carefully examine a skull that seemed odd. The atmosphere in the place was already really creepy and the skull in particular made me tense. While I examined it the DM looked me dead in the eye while describing in, paused for a second or two and then snapped his teeth together. That simple gesture gave me goose bumps. I don’t know if there really was something going on with that skull, if it had closed it jaws on its own accord or not, I did not ask. The rest of the scene I just stayed with the group and did not touch anything, just in case.

All in all it seems to come down to knowing the players and what makes them tick

valadil
2014-08-17, 06:29 AM
Here's my general advice on getting emotional responses from your players.

This is one of those places where you need to show instead of tell. If you tell the players how to react to something they won't. Often they'll even be defiant about it.

For instance if you tell them the dragon is scary and they should all roll will saves, not a single player will be afraid and not a single player who make his saving throw will do anything but charge into battle. Being brave in the face if danger is what PCs crave.

Description and mood will do a better job spooking your players. As the players enter the dragon's cave maybe they'll hear it snoring and each time that happens a wave of hot air passes by the party. As they get closer each of those snores is enough to get everyone sweaty.

Ok that came out as "the dragon is big and hot" rather than scary. I think it is still a more visceral than if you'd just stated the facts.

DM Nate
2014-08-17, 07:02 AM
I roll to seduce the dragon.

Palegreenpants
2014-08-17, 07:16 AM
I agree with Spacebatsy on several points. A good DM can make a situation unnerving or even terrifying. Occasionally, I reach this point of fear-perfection myself. Problem is, its almost always an accident. Its also totally true that fear of a creature diminishes once you enter into battle with it. As a result of this, I never use battle grids when my players fight a monster that I mean to be scary.

As for fear of unknown monsters, I do it all the time. None of my world's monsters come from a MM. When described correctly, a suitably unique monster is actually very unnerving. Finally, I've observed that player death can be scary, but only if a party member (not necessarily the dead one) saw it coming. It should be forewarned, however, and be (reasonably) avoidable.

Necroticplague
2014-08-17, 09:36 AM
It depends on exactly what you mean by "terrify". I've managed to get players that are extremely paranoid and go through every detail with a fine-tooth comb. I manage to do this by ensuring that they can always win. Not that they always do, but winning is always a possibility within all situations they find themselves in. And when they don't win, its because they screwed up. After every loss, I always explain how they could have avoided it. Repeated enough, they learn that any situation, even seemingly intractable ones, can be solved. Thus, they never get an apathetic "whelp, we're screwed". They always look for some way to get around, over, or through. Of course, thanks to how f****** big the systems I play are, the solution isn't always obvious, thus making them desperate. Take a simple 50-foot wide pit. Is there an invisible bridge? if so, where is it? Would such a bridge be straight, or does it bend to throw of those incoming. Are we expected to climb across the walls? Should we try having the flier take us across one-by-one? Is there gonna be an ambush on the other side?

Combine with being very consistent about asking for clarification for any out-of-combat actions ("You sure you wanna do that?"), and their knowledge of how much I think SoDs (whether the S is Skill or Save) are bad design, and they always continually hone and add new strategies and come up with ways to surprise me sometimes.

DM Nate
2014-08-17, 10:25 AM
This, and other ways to make a closed wooden door take up 2 hours of real time!

Jacob.Tyr
2014-08-17, 11:36 AM
I agree with Spacebatsy on several points. A good DM can make a situation unnerving or even terrifying. Occasionally, I reach this point of fear-perfection myself. Problem is, its almost always an accident. Its also totally true that fear of a creature diminishes once you enter into battle with it. As a result of this, I never use battle grids when my players fight a monster that I mean to be scary.

As for fear of unknown monsters, I do it all the time. None of my world's monsters come from a MM. When described correctly, a suitably unique monster is actually very unnerving. Finally, I've observed that player death can be scary, but only if a party member (not necessarily the dead one) saw it coming. It should be forewarned, however, and be (reasonably) avoidable.

Really love the ditching the battle grid idea for scary situations. Hadn't actually considered it, but forcing the players to imagine the space probably helps get them in a better mindset to be scared. Take away the chunk of their focus that would be doing tactical thinking on the grid, and hand it over to imagination.

Narren
2014-08-17, 03:10 PM
Dude, it's a game. All your 'RANDOM DEATH ANYWHERE ANYTIME' is going to produce is either apathy, or paranoia-style black humor. There's only so many scares you can wring out of a peril once players have had apathy in the face of random death beaten into them.

There's a big difference between "RANDOM DEATH ANYWHERE ANYTIME" and "My character can't possibly die unless I say it's ok, so I have nothing to fear." The trick is to find that happy middle ground. And you don't need a TPK, one character dying on a rare occasion will remind people the combat is serious and death is a real possibility.

And of course, there are many styles of play, and what works for one group may not work for the next.

kyoryu
2014-08-17, 04:36 PM
There's a big difference between "RANDOM DEATH ANYWHERE ANYTIME" and "My character can't possibly die unless I say it's ok, so I have nothing to fear."

It's worth noting that only the former has actually been seriously espoused in this thread.

The latter is an *opinion* of old-school play that most old-school players would disagree with.

Madfellow
2014-08-17, 05:00 PM
Ask for a Listen check. Tell the player, "It's quiet. Too quiet."

Lord Vukodlak
2014-08-17, 06:29 PM
The party is exploring an underground ruin, they soon discover that this was once an Illithid(Mind Flayer) enclave, the find the bodies of mind flayers scattered about the ruins.
Now some magic in the area is preventing them from teleporting out, so that alone made them a bit nervous.

But what really made them **** themselves was the writing on the walls. "From beneath us it devours." that didn't scare them at first.... until they realized the mind flayers and written it before they died. Something that terrifies mind flayers is truly something to be feared.

GPuzzle
2014-08-17, 08:31 PM
One of the most intense was when some characters were down in a dungeon (this was like, the first 15 minutes of the game, we were playing Dark Sun) because an old trio of Psions that seemingly had figured out the last piece of God power - a Paladin (one of the players). They enter the tomb, and the Psions start reading what was written on the symbols on the wall.

You know that scene at the end of Raiders of the Lost Ark, when the Ark is opened? More specifically, when Toht, Belloq and Dietrich die (head explodes, face melts off the head, head shrinkels)? So, I tell them that something like that happened.

And the Tomb starts falling down. The players still inside.

You should've seen the Mage's player face. I think he left a brick-shaped hole in his chair.

"WE'REALLGONNADIEWE'REALLGONNADIEWE'REALLGONNADIE."

...
2014-08-17, 10:20 PM
The best way to terrify people in D&D isn't to kill them or important NPCs, it's to scare them in a different way. Here's a list because I'm bored.

1. There are countless innocent people who have nothing to do with the story in any adventure. Use them. Or more accurately, their body parts.

2. A monster's society can be as scary as you want. On the one hand, you can have a race that is evil because they are evil, or evil because they kill sentient beings. Or you could go deeper than that...

3. Be creative with your monsters. I have a great idea for an evil man-eating nymph that I'm waiting to use, for example.

Milodiah
2014-08-18, 10:05 AM
The most success I've ever had with this type of thing is with Metro 2033 (book, not game) style environmental horror. Giving the players a sense of subtle wrongness about the world around them. NPCs statted up like terminators easily wiping out the first wave of monsters from a newly-opened cave whose mouth is obscured by supernatural darkness, but then rushing to seal it off before something far, far worse comes out. The NPC guide they hired to navigate them through the woods invoking the specifics of his contract to collect his pay and leave immediately at a certain specific point on the road, looking over his shoulder.

Then once they've blundered in anyway, I hit them. When they make camp, nightmares written out and personalized for their characters, handed out to the players. As they travel down the road, they see things they really shouldn't, but never enough to make them entirely sure of what it was they shouldn't have just seen. Passing the dead without knowing how they died, or what could have caused the wounds or lack of wounds that they see.

Sure, the first few times your players will just assume it's a genius loci or some illusion caster, but after a while...mine are on edge. Which is good. And the most important thing is to never give them a solid answer as to what's causing this to happen. If they find out they just have to go slay a mind flayer in a cave, or kill a druid in a tower, then it all evaporates. But if it's just like that, and no-one in the game world can fully explain to them why, it's much more tense, because they don't know the rules for it. It doesn't have stats or HP, they can't attack it. It's just there.

Granted, you can't do this often. But in my setting, the deep, dark woods in the center of the country mean more than just higher CRs. It means mild to moderate warping of reality.

Segev
2014-08-18, 10:20 AM
Sadly, sometimes you do have to tell rather than show. You may just not be able to come up with a way to make out that dragon as being pants-dampening scary to the players. Nor that lich. But they have magical (or almost-magical) fear auras. Sometimes, it is okay to call upon your players to RP a certain level of fear that the player may not be experiencing, just as it's okay to call on them to play an attraction they know OOC is bogus (you failed your Charm Person save).

There is responsibility on the part of players to RP emotions they are not themselves feeling, or which they may even know are unwarranted on a logical level.

However, it's not their fault if they, the players, are not scared. And the mechanics should dictate IC consequences of those enforced feelings. The dragon inflicts the Shaken condition; the lich causes you to turn and flee. The enchantress gets to ask you to do favors for her, and if the player wants to say his character "wouldn't," the enchantress gets an opposed Charisma check to override his personal desires with his desire for her approval.

So if you want to terrify your players, you need to be good at showing, rather than telling.

Jay R
2014-08-18, 10:29 AM
There's a big difference between "RANDOM DEATH ANYWHERE ANYTIME" and "My character can't possibly die unless I say it's ok, so I have nothing to fear." The trick is to find that happy middle ground. And you don't need a TPK, one character dying on a rare occasion will remind people the combat is serious and death is a real possibility.

Exactly. "The character might die" does not imply random death anywhere anytime. To my mind, the ideal adventure is one in which we think we're about to die, but we manage to save ourselves. It's not that I want my character to die; it's that I want to triumph over that risk. There is no triumph over complete safety.

Similarly, when I fence, I want an opponent who really fences with me, not one who lets me win. That doesn't mean I don't want to win each bout; I do. But I want to win over a real threat, and that means that I don't always get the win I want.

Mexikorn
2014-08-18, 03:11 PM
I hit them with a club. And sometimes I lock them up in my cellar without food or water.

LimSindull
2014-08-18, 03:54 PM
I try to use decent descriptions, normally the players will scare themselves with ideas that I never came up with.

mikeejimbo
2014-08-18, 08:00 PM
I try to use decent descriptions, normally the players will scare themselves with ideas that I never came up with.

This is my experience.

When that doesn't work, I threaten them with puns.

Brookshw
2014-08-18, 08:08 PM
The party is exploring an underground ruin, they soon discover that this was once an Illithid(Mind Flayer) enclave, the find the bodies of mind flayers scattered about the ruins.
Now some magic in the area is preventing them from teleporting out, so that alone made them a bit nervous.

But what really made them **** themselves was the writing on the walls. "From beneath us it devours." that didn't scare them at first.... until they realized the mind flayers and written it before they died. Something that terrifies mind flayers is truly something to be feared.

Gotta ask, what was it? Kytons, please say Kytons.

Ravian
2014-08-18, 08:29 PM
You know how people say the unknown is scary? Well I sometimes find that knowledge can be all the more terrifying, if used in the right moderation. Darkness isn't scary, it's what we imagine is inside the darkness, but to do that we have to find something to associate it with.

For example, imagine that the monster is able to travel through mirrors. The player's will feel that they have a point of safety, if they avoid mirrors, they avoid the monster. But at the same time, you've made them utterly terrified of mirrors. Now imagine the feeling of walking into a dark room, when suddenly the lights flash on to see every wall covered in mirrors. Suddenly it turns into a frenzied rush to smash every mirror before the monster appears. With the complete unknown, all they can do is try to be on edge at all time, which is more like the common adventurer mindset. Knowledge makes them think they have an edge, but it also gives you so many more tools to use against them. I once had a player who was a werewolf without control of his other half, the party boarded a ship bound for another world just a few days before the new moon. When it turned out the moon's phases in the other world were reversed and they were stuck on a small ship with a werewolf with a few days before the full moon, you can imagine the sudden freakout about how they could contain him during his change.

Fear is best used in bursts or it dulls over time. Its when the feeling of safety is shattered, when the chest-burster comes out during dinner time or the psycho turns out to be in the room with you that the comfort turns into terror.

Leon
2014-08-19, 05:51 AM
An old Wooden Box.

Mastikator
2014-08-19, 09:10 AM
An old Wooden Box.

Or worse, a gazebo!

The only thing I can actually think of is to tell my players that I need them to try to roleplay their character's emotions, even if it's status effect game mechanic. "If your character rolls on fear and becomes afraid, I want you to act afraid, don't think of it as a mechanical hinder, think of it as an actor's cue."

If that does not get them into the spirit of things then anything I'll do to create the atmosphere is wasted.

DontEatRawHagis
2014-08-19, 12:17 PM
When I was running my Dark Sun game, one of my players killed a Nobleman and left evidence that pointed to him(signing his name on the walls right near the dead body wasn't his best plan).

In response the guys son sent a Tembo(intelligent giant sabertooth tiger creature with magic) to kill him. The Creature Catalogue said the Tembo was such a bad omen it was known as a curse and that instead of killing its target it would kill everyone around them, such as family and friends.

As such thePC who was an Elf raised by dwarves found that every dwarven camp they came to was mysteriously massacred. It got to te point where any dead they saw on the road they blamed on the Tembo. So much that they would always walk with weapons at the ready.

Cheers
2014-08-19, 04:17 PM
I dislike telling my players their characters are afraid. If the players doesn't feel the same it creates a disjunct between player and character.
It is far easier to scare the player, and his character will follow suite (There is little difference between a cautiously played character and a cautious charcater).

When it comes to scaring my players there are two methods depending on the opposion they face:

If it is a human:
Confidence and arrogance. An old man surveying a burning city with his back to the PCs, calmly talking, is scary because he APPEARS to have incredible powers. Nevermind they have never known him to cast anything higher than a level 2 spell. "No person that certain of victory could be weak".
Alternatively, though you can't tell your PCs to be afraid, you can tell it to your NPCs. If everyone is afraid of someone, there has got to be a reason for it, right? The principle of these two is the same: do not show or describe the power. Once it is known, it becomes calculable, counterable. Hide the power but give them a reason to assume its pressence, and let their imaginations do the rest. Nobody knows how to scare you better than you yourself.

If it is a monster:
As always, uncertainty is your ally. As mentioned in previous posts, descriptions are your best friend here. Describe the sound of its roar echoing across the valley. Describe the sight of the the bones of its many previous prey, some remarkably large, strewn across the ground. Describe the stench carried by the wind coming towards them etc.... Without showing the monster, they can use neither OC or IC knowledge to preparte themselves. Do this sparingly and well enough, and you'll find your players (and their characters) running away from what, theoretically, couldbe anything.

Leon
2014-08-20, 01:43 AM
Or worse, a gazebo!

The only thing I can actually think of is to tell my players that I need them to try to roleplay their character's emotions, even if it's status effect game mechanic. "If your character rolls on fear and becomes afraid, I want you to act afraid, don't think of it as a mechanical hinder, think of it as an actor's cue."

If that does not get them into the spirit of things then anything I'll do to create the atmosphere is wasted.

A old Wooden box in an otherwise bare room was enough to freak the party out and more so when it just collapsed into dust and splinters when touched

Beneath
2014-08-20, 03:22 AM
A funny thing happened when I started running Dungeon World, having only played D&D before: The players got a lot more terrified of the monsters.

I've only run Dungeon World play-by-chat so I don't have facial expressions to go on, but that seems to be the reaction. Even in D&D, I've seen people tend to approach things that are much bigger and more dangerous than them, things that were meant to scare them as tactical/strategic challenges (I've done that too, as a player) where the fear only comes from fighting them unprepared, not fighting them at all.

Why I think this happens is that when you see a D&D monster, it's a pile of stats, a wargame piece, that behaves in a certain way and works by certain rules. It might have powers you don't know about, but nonetheless there are rules (like turn order) that it fundamentally obeys. Monsters don't do much in the way of permanent harm, either (ability & level drain are reversible).

In Dungeon World the fundamental rules are different. Any time you do anything, the world, including the monster, responds. You don't know what the monster is going to do, you can't predict when it will do it. The spider has poisonous fangs and sprays silkstuff out its rear end, and the poison might have a defined effect (or not), but the silkstuff can do anything. It can spin webs, entangle you, gum up your weapons, whatever the GM needs it to do at the time.

That's what's scary. The monster doesn't have a narrowly-defined list of abilities, it has a bunch of Things It Does which can have varying effects on the players.

Esprit15
2014-08-20, 04:31 AM
I was going to add something, but then I found it to already be said in a better form: While the unknown is scary, knowing what you're fighting can be just as terrifying, as with the mirror example.

Anything that shapeshifts is another good choice, especially if the party is separated for a little bit by accident and knows that they are hunting for... Let's say a Changeling assassin. Queue everyone accusing everyone else of being the shapeshifter. For best results in IRL, talk to one person away from the game about it so they can play the part well. For more interesting results, don't tell anyone, but let them think you did, if you want to avoid any of your players reading each other too well. The former lets you possibly kill the character, leaving less issue with explanation for why they disappeared, but the latter is so much more fun to watch.

JetThomasBoat
2014-08-20, 05:53 AM
I've found a few DMs who made clever use of darkness. Because if there was one thing you could count on from my first D&D group, it was that not a one of us had darkvision. Combine that with a room that's too big for your torchlight to reach the walls of and it would start to unsettle me.

I also am one of those people that can be scared off by creatures that I know are too powerful for us to face.

kyoryu
2014-08-20, 11:35 AM
On the Dungeon World front, I recommend this as for any GM:

http://www.latorra.org/2012/05/15/a-16-hp-dragon/

Fumble Jack
2014-08-21, 03:25 PM
In my high school years behind the screen, I used to set up a sort of boss monster to continuously chase the pc's and show when they least expected it. Think the Nemesis creature from the Resident Evil 3 game or Pyramid Head of Silent Hill 2 game. I have grown and learned from those experiences. Now if I want to terrify my players, I set up the atmosphere of the game.

I do remember a scene I ran in a game, where the players were investigating an abandoned house. I wanted to give the implication that the house was haunted without just stating it. I did my best to imitate the noises of doors opening and closing, steps up and down stairs with something heavy being dragged and incoherent whispering. I even mentioned differences in temperature and the feeling as if something stood behind them only to have nothing there. One of my players, big guy actually had to get up to shake off the jitters.

Ironically their characters were safe, nothing was really happening to them but they felt so in danger and scared they couldn't wait for the chance to get out of the place.

Silus
2014-08-21, 08:18 PM
I personally tend to favor unpredictable creatures. Where you think you have a handle on how they operate, all their powers and abilities, and they pull something out of left field that you were not expecting. Or homebrew monsters. They may look like one thing but operate in ways the PCs (or their characters) have never seen creatures act. "Wait, Orcs aren't monks/Why are those Centaur using rifles and shotguns/What do you mean those Drow weren't evil/What do you mean Drow as a race aren't evil?!" You start messing with the order of things as a DM, and the PCs will start walking on eggshells.

Case in point, this bad boy I've been working on the last week. (https://docs.google.com/document/d/1drOCUAsNeTmR2mL8s70wSmPJPyDY5-yx5jhPQSmrj6E/edit?usp=sharing) (It's a Google Doc)

The short of it? Check these abilities (keep in mind this is in the body of a Kaiju, so it's already tough as nails to kill and keep dead):


Breath Weapons: Once every 4 rounds as a standard action, Agranor may breath a 600ft cone of one of the following:

Raw, wild magic. Any creatures caught in the cone must succeed a DC 42 Reflex Save or suffer a random magical effect (as per Rod of Wonders) along with 20d6 points of Force damage and have all spellcasting run wild (See Primal Magic table) for 1d4 rounds. A successful saving throw halves the damage and negates the Primal Magic and Rod of Wonder effects.
Eldritch green flames. Any creatures caught in the cone must succeed a DC 42 Reflex Save or take 20d6 fire damage and be lit on fire, dealing 2d6 fire damage each round until put out (A full round action to stop, drop and roll will put out the flames and leave the target prone). A successful saving throw halves the damage and prevents the target from catching fire.
Intense cold. Any creatures caught in the cone must succeed a DC 42 Reflex Save or take 20d6 cold damage and be staggered for 1d4 rounds. A successful saving throw halves the damage and negates the staggered condition.
A radioactive cloud. Any creatures caught in the cone must succeed a DC 42 Reflex Save or make an immediate DC 30 Fortitude save vs Severe Radiation. A successful saving throw lowers the DC to 17 and the Radiation is treated as Medium.

Mana Armor: Once every 4 rounds as part of a move action, Agranor may burrow and cover itself in raw Mana. Doing so increases Agranor's Spell Resistance from 27 to 37, and lowers its AC from 46 to 36. These changes last 1d4 rounds.

Magic Cysts: When attacked with a melee weapon, there is a 10% chance that one of Agranor's many cysts is hit and ruptured. Damage is dealt as normal, but the attacker must make a DC 42 Reflex save or be splashed with raw magic. If so splashed, they immediately come under the affects of a Rod of Wonder and must make a DC 35 Fortitude save or be nauseated for 1d4 rounds as "Oh Gods some of it got in my mouth!".

Chaos Enchantment: Whenever a magic weapon or armor has an ability activated that affects Agranor, the item must make a DC 25 Will save or take on new properties as Agranor’s chaotic magic affects the enchantments. Magic weapons that fail must roll a d6 with each number corresponding to the following:

1) Lesser Minor Magic table
2) Greater Minor Magic table
3) Lesser Medium Magic table
4) Greater Medium Magic table
5) Lesser Major Magic table
6) Greater Major Magic table

These tables can be found on pages 117 (Armor and shields) and 135 (weapons) of Ultimate Equipment. Roll the corresponding percentages and apply the results to the new weapon. Reroll in the case of “Specific Magic Weapon/Armor”. If an enchantment is ineligible (such as Keen on a blunt weapon), reroll. DM note: Ensure that all players have a copy of the tables to expedite combat.

Primal Weather: Should a spell cast against Agranor that requires a SR check, and should said spell not manage to bypass the Kaiju’s SR, it is absorbed into the Kaiju’s being (the spell fizzles as per normal). After absorbing four (4) spells, a Primal Magic Event is triggered (as per the Spellscar Oracle). The CR used is Agranor’s.

Tides of Magic: Every other round, the agitated kaiju pulses with energy, either erupting with writhing streamers of wild magic, or swelling as the magic in the area is sucked back into it. These effects occur even if the kaiju is polymorphed or otherwise incapacitated (Effects end should the Kaiju be killed).

Round 1: Eruption of wild magic, 600'r. All magic use must make a DC 42 concentration check or be subject to a wild magic surge. Existing spells must weather a CL 26 dispel check or erupt into wild magic surges (the kaiju is immune to the effects of these surges). Has no effect on magic items.
Round 2: Magic is normal as the excess magic stabilizes.
Round 3: Anti-magic Shell, 600'r as the magic in the area streams back into the creature, swelling it with light and power. This is powerful enough to affect even supernatural and mythic powers that might be immune to anti-magic normally.
Round 4: Again, the magic stabilizes and returns to normal.

Soul Sight: Agranor possesses the ability to perceive the connectivity between the living, undead and the flows of magic on the Barrier World. This functions as Blindsight, but does not affect or work on creatures of the Construct type. In other words, Constructs such as robots or Golems do not register via Soul Sight (Despite Golems being powered by magic).


Now imagine you're going against this colossal creature and these abilities start kicking in. Magic isn't working right, your enchanted items are going haywire, and the thing is battering away at you with such a random assortment of effects that it's impossible to guess exactly what will come next.

Oh, and whereas most Kaiju have 3 Int, this puppy's got 10.

So we have 1) Big nasty hard to kill monster, 2) unpredictable, unknowable attacks and abilities, and 3) it's clever.

Ionbound
2014-08-21, 08:49 PM
What scares me, as a player, isn't actual character death. If my character dies, and it's memorable, then it's just a story coming to a close. It's subversion, and random subversion at that. A cleric who's life mission it is to free her town from it's vampire overlord being attacked by werewolves and being infected.

That kind of thing, I think, scares players more than anything else, even when they're totally okay with it.

dilepoutee
2014-08-22, 04:53 AM
The thread title says it all. How do you make your players metaphorically (or literally for some cases) s**t themselves?

I was playing a Pokemon Tabletop Adventures game set as a Crime Drama, leaving slight hints of the region champion (Cynthia) all about the city, always one step ahead of them and working against them (albeit, unknowingly). It got to the point where I was able to make all of my players very nervous and quite jittery when I so much as mentioned the mere scent of her perfume.

Any other examples for you guys?

Playing hard and rash..

Metahuman1
2014-08-22, 03:42 PM
Imagine that: People like it, that's what the fiction they create has. And there's nothing wrong with it. Some people like Attack on Titan, so their games show that. That's fine, so long as everyone knows what they are getting into.

Though Ironically since as much as it pretentiously pretends otherwise, there's 3-5 characters that are main cast in that show on the hero's side who are not gonna die before the end. If they were it would have happened many times before now, and in at least one case it did happen and the guy came back from the dead.

That might change of the author goes with his originally intended ending, but if he changes it as he's indicated he's now thinking of doing cause the sales are so good, then that will have remained a constant.


So, if you really want to play Attack on Titan, it should just be a game were Everyone except the PC's is dieing all the time until the last session of the campaign. Which might or might not be scary. In me it would very rapidly induce Apathy, possibly to the point of making me stop going to that campaign all together.

FabulousFizban
2014-08-22, 07:18 PM
I smile...

Laughingmanlol
2014-08-23, 02:31 AM
I've started to introduce horror elements to the megadungeon I'm running, with some success.
There is a site where you can procedurally generate dungeons, complete with treasure and encounters, that I've been using to adapt to their unexpected detours. (http://donjon.bin.sh) One feature is that it will sometimes give a little extra detail for a room, such as that the floor consists of perfect hexagonal tiles.
Having found a very flavourful magic item, the Stalker's Mask, and seeing a room with "Don't sleep" written in blood on the walls, I decided to improvise a surprise for them.
They entered to see a room with three corpses in, each recently dead with their faces removed, and the Mask on the floor facing them. This, along with the bloodied writing on the wall, served to put them on edge, but in true PC fashion they looted the bodies, leaving the mask there, and went on to the next room.
"A demonic idol with ruby eyes is in this room", so I had it face the previous room. They gouged out the gems and on a whim decided to return to the Mask room.
Once they entered, they saw that the other door through which they had enentered the first time and left open was now closed, the corpses were missing, the Mask was again facing them, and on the wall "Or else" had been added. (I'd expected to have longer to prepare any changes)
They were now panicking slightly, and tested a wand of magic missiles on the Mask (little effect) then the door to see a shadowy figure turning the corner at the end of the corridor. They ran after, concerned by the fact that the halfling would fall behind, and stopped as soon as they lost sight of it. Returning to the room, I decided that this deserved preparation to do the current atmosphere justice, and described the door as almost scabbed up at the edges, with blood flowing under. Of course, the slayer had to peek through the keyhole, so I improvised a (somewhat gaudy, in retrospect) horror cliché and had him make a reflex save to dodge a spurt of boiling blood. At that, they decided to find another route and return to the mercantile area by the entrance that had seemed a safe place.
The first junction they chose was a dead end, leading them through a wraith and some rooms with demonic masks and another idol, again facing the Mask room and again immediately defiled. Unfortunately the wraith was far less scary than I'd hoped, since they didn't fail a single save to avoid the constitution damage, and the fetchling started singing Ghostbusters.
The second one, though, led them eventually to a set of stairs, which they were very happy to ascend. We ended the session with them camping in the atrium by the stalls, and I've already come up with some ideas for next time.

Beneath
2014-08-23, 04:25 PM
I've started to introduce horror elements to the megadungeon I'm running, with some success.
There is a site where you can procedurally generate dungeons, complete with treasure and encounters, that I've been using to adapt to their unexpected detours. (http://donjon.bin.sh) One feature is that it will sometimes give a little extra detail for a room, such as that the floor consists of perfect hexagonal tiles.
Having found a very flavourful magic item, the Stalker's Mask, and seeing a room with "Don't sleep" written in blood on the walls, I decided to improvise a surprise for them.
They entered to see a room with three corpses in, each recently dead with their faces removed, and the Mask on the floor facing them. This, along with the bloodied writing on the wall, served to put them on edge, but in true PC fashion they looted the bodies, leaving the mask there, and went on to the next room.
"A demonic idol with ruby eyes is in this room", so I had it face the previous room. They gouged out the gems and on a whim decided to return to the Mask room.
Once they entered, they saw that the other door through which they had enentered the first time and left open was now closed, the corpses were missing, the Mask was again facing them, and on the wall "Or else" had been added. (I'd expected to have longer to prepare any changes)
They were now panicking slightly, and tested a wand of magic missiles on the Mask (little effect) then the door to see a shadowy figure turning the corner at the end of the corridor. They ran after, concerned by the fact that the halfling would fall behind, and stopped as soon as they lost sight of it. Returning to the room, I decided that this deserved preparation to do the current atmosphere justice, and described the door as almost scabbed up at the edges, with blood flowing under. Of course, the slayer had to peek through the keyhole, so I improvised a (somewhat gaudy, in retrospect) horror cliché and had him make a reflex save to dodge a spurt of boiling blood. At that, they decided to find another route and return to the mercantile area by the entrance that had seemed a safe place.
The first junction they chose was a dead end, leading them through a wraith and some rooms with demonic masks and another idol, again facing the Mask room and again immediately defiled. Unfortunately the wraith was far less scary than I'd hoped, since they didn't fail a single save to avoid the constitution damage, and the fetchling started singing Ghostbusters.
The second one, though, led them eventually to a set of stairs, which they were very happy to ascend. We ended the session with them camping in the atrium by the stalls, and I've already come up with some ideas for next time.

They're camping after the dungeon warned them "don't sleep or else"?

Lord Vukodlak
2014-08-23, 11:23 PM
Gotta ask, what was it? Kytons, please say Kytons.
Please Chain Devils are going to threaten illithids let alone an Elder Brain.

Imagine a colossal sized twelve headed Hydra with 40HD, with the capability of manifesting psionic powers as a 25th level psion without limitations to powers known and various immunities associated with an Elder Evils.

But honestly these (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?144812-Goo-Bangs-a-3-5-monster) things terrified my players.

DM Nate
2014-08-23, 11:30 PM
Terror, for me, involves more than just "this monster is even bigger than the last!"

Last time I terrified my players, I pulled a John Carpenter and had a Thing-like creature stalking the party. They eventually realized what was going on when they found the unconscious body of someone who was still standing behind them. As they turned around, I told the respective player "Your character is temporarily unplayable" and had the shapeshifter break apart into a fairly nasty monster.

After that, they were constantly watching each other, becoming suspicious the moment any of them left sight for even a second. They didn't even know if THEY were the monster themselves, unknowingly roleplaying the monster until such time as I decided it struck.

Sadly, the device was perhaps too effective. It exacerbated issues the group was having in real life, and the campaign only lasted for two more sessions before one of the party cracked and TPK'd everybody. The group broke up after that.

Silus
2014-08-24, 12:26 AM
Please Chain Devils are going to threaten illithids let alone an Elder Brain.

Imagine a colossal sized twelve headed Hydra with 40HD, with the capability of manifesting psionic powers as a 25th level psion without limitations to powers known and various immunities associated with an Elder Evils.

But honestly these (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?144812-Goo-Bangs-a-3-5-monster) things terrified my players.

Pretty sure they meant Kythons:

http://i868.photobucket.com/albums/ab249/crafty-cultist/Kython.jpg

the_david
2014-08-24, 04:55 AM
I had two of my players begin an investigation while the third went to get food.

They were investigating a bunch of deaths that had been occurring, one player was pretty much going through the motions. She plainly assumed it was all filler to kill time until the other player got back. So the players find a shiny silver eyeglass. When one of the players looks through they see the blurry image of a naked dwarf woman. Neither player is overly intrigued, and place it in their pack as an oddity to sell later.

They continue on their way to a blacksmiths forge that had practically exploded when lit in the morning, burning him quite badly. They were pointed to the local police, as the constable's wizard had already investigated and mentioned some theories related to "fo-ser-puss?" After arriving at the watch house and heading up stairs to talk to the wizard. The wizard explained that it was caused by a sort of chemical compound, and this injury and other reported deaths seem related to a cult dedicated to a prankster god that had been turned insane. One of the players then brings up the eyeglass they found and hands it to the dwarven wizard, who in turn whistles appreciatively and turns the mechanism to bring the image into focus.

The players hear a wet "Thunk" and blood runs down from the eyeglass as the wizard collapses, dead, blood dripping down from his eye, where his lifeless hands still clutch the eyeglass.

Both of my players turned white, covered their mouths with their hands, looked at each other, and promptly freaked the hell out. "Is there a window we can jump out of!?" "Crap! all the guards saw us come in!" "WhatdowedoWhatdowedoWhatdowedo?" "I DON'T KNOW!!!"

It... was... awesome...This is great, I could see myself using this for my own two-player group if it wasn't so deadly. I could see a player killing his own character very easily. I suppose you'd treat this as a trap, right?
Oh great, now I've got to stat this thing up as a trap. So, that would be an attack roll vs. flat-footed + touch and it's not unlike a sneak attack/coup de grace as it targets a vital area...

emeraldstreak
2014-08-24, 08:54 AM
I can naturally transition sessions I DM to a horror atmosphere even in games that normally don't give in to it (Exalted). Not quite sure how to give advice on it though. Part is tone, part is fear of the unknown, part is subtle forebodings.

Silus
2014-08-24, 03:07 PM
So a question regarding setting up a horror atmosphere, any suggestions on getting the PCs to roll their own perception/listen/spot checks instead of prompting them? Aside from telling them straight up I mean.

emeraldstreak
2014-08-24, 03:53 PM
So a question regarding setting up a horror atmosphere, any suggestions on getting the PCs to roll their own perception/listen/spot checks instead of prompting them? Aside from telling them straight up I mean.

Neither. Answer their inquiries but don't break the atmosphere with rolls unless they are crucial.

ReaderAt2046
2014-08-24, 09:30 PM
A great thing to borrow would be the "bubbles of evil" from the Wheel of Time series. Basically, as the Dark One stirs in his prison, bubbles of nastybadness drift up into the real world. Where they burst, something horrifically bizzare happens. Some examples (these are all from the books):

* A character's reflection steps out of the mirror and attempts to kill him. It is an exact duplicate of him, with the same stats, abilities, hp, etc.
* The figures on a bunch of playing cards come to life and try to kill you.
* Every weapon in the party animates and starts attacking its owner. They can only be defeated by touching them to dirt (which renders them inert).
* A guy starts turning into molten obsidian from the inside out.
* Everyone in a certain village turns into a berserk lunatic at sundown, only to wake up unharmed in their bed at sunrise. Any attempt at suicide doesn't work, with the victims "respawning" just as normal in the morning. Any visitor from the outside killed in these rampages wakes up in a random bed and is thenceforth part of the curse.

You get the idea.

Brookshw
2014-08-25, 07:42 AM
Pretty sure they meant Kythons:

http://i868.photobucket.com/albums/ab249/crafty-cultist/Kython.jpg

You're right, misspelled that one. Yes, kythons.

...
2014-08-25, 02:22 PM
You're right, misspelled that one. Yes, kythons.

Why are Kythons in BoVD anyways? I don't have it, but I have BoED and I thought I knew what to expect from it...

Anyways, I'm planning a campaign that revolves around an Astral Stalker trying to manipulate events to make the PCs' lives as bad as possible before killing them all without a single one of them knowing who they were up against in their entire lives. Will the Astral Stalker accomplish his task? That's up to the PCs' deduction skills.

S@tanicoaldo
2014-08-25, 03:27 PM
I believe the first step is to actually find out what terrify your players. Do they have some kind of fear or phobia that you can work with it in your game?

If not you can use the Primal Fears Like getting old and death.

From Tv tropes: "Some fears are universal. The dark, heights, blood, enclosed spaces, snakes, spiders, psychopaths, loud sounds, pain, death, monsters, humiliation, loneliness; these fears have always been with us. They are the dangers our early ancestors faced, and their shadows still haunt our nightmares. Most people are a little nervous about such things - not many people could walk on a glass bridge over the Grand Canyon without any railings, and not feel a little anxious - and full-blown phobias are easily enough induced."

But it is kind of hard to do that in a world where you can defend yourself using your weapons and magic so you need to transport the object of fear and what makes it terrifying. You need to do something so that the players can do nothing to remove that source of fear.

Taboos and repulsive acts are also effective like cannibalism in the form of the undead(when the players are forced to be undead and feed on other humans).

Segev
2014-08-26, 01:32 PM
I greatly enjoy being up high. I have no fear of heights at all...as long as I feel secure. But a sense of being about to fall - no matter how intellectually obviously false - makes me uneasy. I have trouble with wobbly ladders and with standing on such without hands to support me, and it doesn't matter how high or not they are.

Just as an example of how fear sometimes works: it's the sense of unease, of lack of control, more than anything else.

Qwertystop
2014-08-27, 07:17 AM
Phrasing helps. If they roll Spot, Listen, or Search, don't say there's nothing there (even if there isn't), say they don't see anything. That one popped up last time I saw one of these threads.

One that probably only works in a pbp: text flow. Not crude formatting things like a "creepy" font, though. You can do a lot to make something seem crazy

mad


disjointed
three track mind//what's going on//trains of thought//off the rails//let me out//pennyonthetrack//droppedchange//helpme//changingdoom
RUN

I can't quite do it right, but the source for that style, City of Angles, is a good one to look at for mad chaos in text form. Wound Up Toys is an especially good chapter for it, as I recall.

Jay R
2014-08-27, 08:29 AM
I believe the first step is to actually find out what terrify your players.

Be careful. This can lead to real problems.

I once introduced some giant spiders, and put some plastic spider toys as miniatures on the table. One look at one player's face showed me a strong fear of spiders.

So they became the wimpiest giant spiders in the history of D&D. The first two died to a single hit, the rest ran away, and I got the miniatures off the table.

That kind of fear is not fun.

S@tanicoaldo
2014-08-29, 11:50 AM
Be careful. This can lead to real problems.

I once introduced some giant spiders, and put some plastic spider toys as miniatures on the table. One look at one player's face showed me a strong fear of spiders.

So they became the wimpiest giant spiders in the history of D&D. The first two died to a single hit, the rest ran away, and I got the miniatures off the table.

That kind of fear is not fun.

It really depends... The majority of time I'll make a game with horror elements the players are aware of that. To throw around elements of horror in the middle of a game that had being so far only unicorns and rainbows is both silly and uncalled-for. You need to set the mood. And my players like horror so it is fine.

That is the main difference between terror and horror, fear and horror, to scare and to horrify. It is not easy to Jumpscare in rpgs but you can make the players feel uneasy and uncomfortable. (Some people love that) When I watch Saw for exemple I don't get afraid. I get horrified. That is what a fun horror game should do. And you need to know what is hideous for them to make it work.

Take my group for instance: We all live in a small and quiet town, most come from extremely traditional and religious families and we spent almost our entire childhood in forests and woods. So a dark forest is not going to be as effective as a big metropolis for a horror setting. As lovecraft said “The oldest and strongest emotion of mankind is fear, and the oldest and strongest kind of fear is fear of the unknown”. I remember the first time I visited a big city. It was extremely scary for me. All those tall towers, the sky filled with gray smoke a place filled with bars, beggars, trash, prostitutes looked like a modern version of Mordor.

TandemChelipeds
2014-08-29, 12:07 PM
Every so often, look at your notes(even if you don't have any), smile, and chuckle to yourself. When the players ask you what it is, say "Nothing."
Their imaginations will fill in the blanks.

megabyter5
2014-08-30, 03:08 AM
Once, in an urban campaign, my players had their first encounter with Filth Row, the sewers where the Peacekeepers would toss those they deemed unfit for their city. They fought and killed the Peacekeepers trying to toss a young man into the pit, but failed to catch him when he fell.

Their response was to send down a rope, but the man ran from them. They chased him for only one round, before a Living Spell (Cloudkill, I believe) appeared and instantly skeletonized the poor sap.

They had a lot of fun in Filth Row.

Leon
2014-08-30, 04:02 AM
On the Dungeon World front, I recommend this as for any GM:

http://www.latorra.org/2012/05/15/a-16-hp-dragon/

only 16 hp, my Halfling Fighter would eat that for a snack. My DM found mobs were the way to threaten my Fighter ~ 40 elves in groups of 10 did more than any one creature ever could

Arbane
2014-08-30, 03:22 PM
only 16 hp, my Halfling Fighter would eat that for a snack. My DM found mobs were the way to threaten my Fighter ~ 40 elves in groups of 10 did more than any one creature ever could

I suspect 16 HP goes a lot further in Dungeon World than it would in D&D.

Beneath
2014-08-30, 05:36 PM
I suspect 16 HP goes a lot further in Dungeon World than it would in D&D.

It does, depending on the creature. Mostly because the way the scene was narrated, getting an actual attack against the dragon was extremely difficult. Dungeon World doesn't have a "it's my turn, so I'm going to attack the thing" mechanic, and it's not built around ablating hit points from your enemies until they fall over (the link explains). Instead, a situation is presented, the PCs react, and a new situation is presented based on how the previous situation evolved in response to their actions. If the situation doesn't give you room to stick your sword into the dragon somewhere where you'll hit something other than armored scale, then you can't roll Hack&Slash (the attack roll mechanic).

The story explains it better than I could.