lonedrow1
2014-08-13, 04:06 PM
Hey all, I've been going to these forums for a while now to check out info, feats, book sources, etc. and its been great and all, but now it is time for me to make my first post. It is a really big wall, and a bit of a doosey though.
I'm not even asking this for an arguing point. Right now I am simply curious. As the DM, it is his world after all.
Currently I am a bit concerned about the DM in our current campaign (we are using 3.5 rules, etc, but we are doing the Heart of Night Fang Spire 3.0 campaign). I am not sure of his exact class levels, other than the fact that he has Cleric levels, is level 10, and has taken 1 or 2 multi-class levels.
We killed some Girallons (quite a few, actually) on the third and fourth floors. He used the spell Animate Dead ( http://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/SRD:Animate_Dead ) to raise two of them, which is no biggie, as zombies.
Then he used the spell, as a scroll, Awaken Undead ( http://dndtools.eu/spells/savage-species--47/awaken-undead--3212/ ) in order to allow them to gain skills, skill points, and feats, etc. But because they are Girallon Zombies, with 18 Hit Dice, they have a whopping 7 feats to spend, both being treated as level 18 characters in terms of feats (he boosted the monsters from 7 to 9 HD because we were destroying everything else in the tower thus far).
To be fair, I dont think he even has the ability to use the scroll yet. He does not have access to the spell yet (too low of a level), thus he does not know the trigger/etc. of the spell, so he must make a UMD check to use it. He does not have any points in UMD, and even if he did, it would require a UMD check of 31 (unless if I am wrong on that, someone correct me).
However, that's not the issue I have. He has given both of his Girallons equipment - one of them has 3 Large Bastard Swords and a tower shield. It has some sort of feats through some monster book somewhere that allows it to attack with multiple weapons - allowing it to do 2d8 + 8 (str mod) 3 times. The attack modifiers for all three attacks including modifiers are as follows:
+14 (primary) +14 (first secondary strike) +14 (second secondary strike) EDIT: listed the wrong modifiers. His girallons have multi-weapon fighting and oversized dual wielding, so he takes -2 for these attacks.
My issue is that they were animals in their previous lives. Awaken Undead does not grant sentience, but lets previous sentient monsters behave as if they did have sentience. Furthermore, Girallons can not be granted more than 2 intelliegence, because as the spell states that the intelligence of an undead affected by this spell cannot be higher than a typical version of its species.
Because the girallon are not sentient and do not understand manufactured weapons, etc., can they even use the equipment he has given them. The only case I know of that an animal can be granted humanlike sentience is through the Druid Awaken ( http://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/SRD:Awaken ) spell.
However, even presenting this sort of argument to him, he said that he saw pictures of a girallon using a shield and a spear, specifically this picture ( http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-kcv6naUKwA0/UUDDWoMFvrI/AAAAAAAAAQQ/64A6bHXRBaw/s1600/PZO9039-Girallon.jpg ), to which I believe is either a Girallon ancestor (who were intelligent enough to so) or a girallon who has been awakened through the Awaken spell.
He also said that he was commanding his undead to "hit things with the pointy end" so they understand how to use the weapons.
Can he even do this? He literally has control of two monsters that are more powerful than several of our characters combined - both of which have DR5/slashing, 110+ HP, the ability to make three attacks in a single attack without taking a full-round action due to feats, and 10' reach.
Please sate my curiosity, and endure my wall of a post.
I'm not even asking this for an arguing point. Right now I am simply curious. As the DM, it is his world after all.
Currently I am a bit concerned about the DM in our current campaign (we are using 3.5 rules, etc, but we are doing the Heart of Night Fang Spire 3.0 campaign). I am not sure of his exact class levels, other than the fact that he has Cleric levels, is level 10, and has taken 1 or 2 multi-class levels.
We killed some Girallons (quite a few, actually) on the third and fourth floors. He used the spell Animate Dead ( http://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/SRD:Animate_Dead ) to raise two of them, which is no biggie, as zombies.
Then he used the spell, as a scroll, Awaken Undead ( http://dndtools.eu/spells/savage-species--47/awaken-undead--3212/ ) in order to allow them to gain skills, skill points, and feats, etc. But because they are Girallon Zombies, with 18 Hit Dice, they have a whopping 7 feats to spend, both being treated as level 18 characters in terms of feats (he boosted the monsters from 7 to 9 HD because we were destroying everything else in the tower thus far).
To be fair, I dont think he even has the ability to use the scroll yet. He does not have access to the spell yet (too low of a level), thus he does not know the trigger/etc. of the spell, so he must make a UMD check to use it. He does not have any points in UMD, and even if he did, it would require a UMD check of 31 (unless if I am wrong on that, someone correct me).
However, that's not the issue I have. He has given both of his Girallons equipment - one of them has 3 Large Bastard Swords and a tower shield. It has some sort of feats through some monster book somewhere that allows it to attack with multiple weapons - allowing it to do 2d8 + 8 (str mod) 3 times. The attack modifiers for all three attacks including modifiers are as follows:
+14 (primary) +14 (first secondary strike) +14 (second secondary strike) EDIT: listed the wrong modifiers. His girallons have multi-weapon fighting and oversized dual wielding, so he takes -2 for these attacks.
My issue is that they were animals in their previous lives. Awaken Undead does not grant sentience, but lets previous sentient monsters behave as if they did have sentience. Furthermore, Girallons can not be granted more than 2 intelliegence, because as the spell states that the intelligence of an undead affected by this spell cannot be higher than a typical version of its species.
Because the girallon are not sentient and do not understand manufactured weapons, etc., can they even use the equipment he has given them. The only case I know of that an animal can be granted humanlike sentience is through the Druid Awaken ( http://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/SRD:Awaken ) spell.
However, even presenting this sort of argument to him, he said that he saw pictures of a girallon using a shield and a spear, specifically this picture ( http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-kcv6naUKwA0/UUDDWoMFvrI/AAAAAAAAAQQ/64A6bHXRBaw/s1600/PZO9039-Girallon.jpg ), to which I believe is either a Girallon ancestor (who were intelligent enough to so) or a girallon who has been awakened through the Awaken spell.
He also said that he was commanding his undead to "hit things with the pointy end" so they understand how to use the weapons.
Can he even do this? He literally has control of two monsters that are more powerful than several of our characters combined - both of which have DR5/slashing, 110+ HP, the ability to make three attacks in a single attack without taking a full-round action due to feats, and 10' reach.
Please sate my curiosity, and endure my wall of a post.