[3.5] Is it possible to get 7 specific feats at 1st level?

[HaikenEdge]

I'm looking to create a gestalt build that requires both Mark of the Dauntless and Born of the Three Thunders to function; however, I'd like to be able to get this functional at first level, meaning I'd need Energy Substitution (Electricity), which requires another metamagic feat and Knowledge (Arcana) 5, which in turn means I'll need Primary Contact, which itself requires Favored, while still needing Least Dragonmark to qualify for Mark of the Dauntless.

So, to recap, is it possible to get this specific set of feats at first level, given that it'll be a gestalt build?

Least Dragonmark
Mark of the Dauntless
Favored
Primary Contact
Unspecified metamagic feat
Energy Substitution (Electricity)
Born of the Three Thunders

[Feint's End]

Possible? Yes. Cheesy. Hell yes.

The question is how far would you go?

It can be done by dark chaos shuffling racial proficiencies (4 feats via elf) ... just add 2 flaws and the regular feat and you are golden.

[HaikenEdge]

If you could be so kind, could you walk me through that?

[sleepyphoenixx]

Human (2 feats), Flaws (2 feats), Faustian Pact (FC2, up to 2 feats), 1 level of Wu Jen (1 metamagic feats)

I'd like to see how you manage to get access to the Dark Chaos spells at first level.

[A.A.King]

I'd like to see how you manage to get access to the Dark Chaos spells at first level.

Simple, have someone else cast it on you. Part of the reason it is so very cheesy to use is the fact that you don't cast it your self, you just say someone casted them on you.

[sleepyphoenixx]

Simple, have someone else cast it on you. Part of the reason it is so very cheesy to use is the fact that you don't cast it your self, you just say someone casted them on you.

There's rules for getting spells cast on you. Specifically, how much those spells cost you. Dark Chaos shuffling is way out of a first level characters price range.

[Feint's End]

If you could be so kind, could you walk me through that?

Well 2 flaws is obivious as is the regular feat. So we sit at 3. If flaws are not allowed faustian pact is also an option and can push this whole idea to 9 feats.

Now for dark chaos shuffle. In the racial description of elves it says: "Elves receive the Martial Weapon Proficiency feats for the longsword, rapier, longbow (including composite longbow), and shortbow (including composite shortbow) as bonus feats."

This means they get 4 feats which are weapon proficiency feats but we don't care about that. Get a spellcaster to cast 4 times Embrace the Dark Chaos (http://dndtools.eu/spells/fiendish-codex-i-hordes-of-the-abyss--66/embrace-the-dark-chaos--1163/) on you. This spell replaces a feat with an Abyssal heritor feat of your choice. With me so far? Good.
Next get another friendly spellcaster (or the same really ... it doesn't matter) to cast Shun the Dark Chaos (http://dndtools.eu/spells/fiendish-codex-i-hordes-of-the-abyss--66/shun-the-dark-chaos--1146/) on you. This spell replaces an Abyssal heritor feat with a feat of your choice you qualify for.

This process is called the Dark Chaos shuffle. Essentially you start with 4 proficiencies and get 4 feats of your choice.

If you get ;this + 2 flaws + regular feat + 2 via faustian pact + 2 via classes (with bonusfeats at first); you can get up to 11 feats.

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

If you could be so kind, could you walk me through that?

The Dark Chaos Shuffle involves having the spells Embrace the Dark Chaos and Shun the Dark Chaos from FC1 cast on you. The first replaces any feat you have with an abyssal heritor feat, the second replaces any abyssal heritor feat you have with any feat you qualify for. Both of those are 8th level spells and each one costs the caster 250 xp, so the standard NPC spellcasting fee to have that done once is 4,900 gp, so to use that to swap out four Elf martial weapon proficiencies it should cost you 19,600 gp. I'm sure you could pull some creating wealth shenanigans to afford it at 1st level, or just come up with a silly background story for it or similar, but don't count on any DM allowing that on a 1st level character.

[Feint's End]

There's rules for getting spells cast on you. Specifically, how much those spells cost you. Dark Chaos shuffling is way out of a first level characters price range.

First off this whole territory is TO. And in TO there are enough ways to break WPL even at first level (quarterstaffs come to mind). Secondly make it part of your backstory (no sane DM is gonna allow that but who would allow 7 feats at first level anyways?). Faustian Pact too is DM dependant.

[Ehcks]

The Dark Chaos Shuffle involves having the spells Embrace the Dark Chaos and Shun the Dark Chaos from FC1 cast on you. The first replaces any feat you have with an abyssal heritor feat, the second replaces any abyssal heritor feat you have with any feat you qualify for. Both of those are 8th level spells and each one costs the caster 250 xp, so the standard NPC spellcasting fee to have that done once is 4,900 gp, so to use that to swap out four Elf martial weapon proficiencies it should cost you 19,600 gp. I'm sure you could pull some creating wealth shenanigans to afford it at 1st level, or just come up with a silly background story for it or similar, but don't count on any DM allowing that on a 1st level character.

Call it a loan with interest. As you gather gold, you pay it off a bit at a time until you've paid back twice that much or so.

[Chronos]

First off this whole territory is TO. And in TO there are enough ways to break WPL even at first level (quarterstaffs come to mind).
You can't use quarterstaves to break WBL. Nothing in the crafting rules says that you can make them from thin air; just that the materials to make them cost 0 GP. If you're planning on crafting quarterstaves and then selling them for firewood (I'm pretty sure that that's what you're referring to), then really what you're getting paid for is the service of gathering firewood, and at that point you might as well just use a profession skill.

[Yael]

Most of the time, when TO'ing, WBL is broken and there come the shuffle, however, by backstory means (and because those spells aren't that expensive anyway) you could manage to have your DM say: yes-yes if you don't abuse it that much... (the total cost should be around 5000gp for both spells)

[HaikenEdge]

Primary Contact lets you choose one skill to raise the max rank by 1.

[Invader]

Primary Contact lets you choose one skill to raise the max rank by 1.

I saw that when I reread you OP i just wasn't fast enough deleting my question lol

[Feint's End]

You can't use quarterstaves to break WBL. Nothing in the crafting rules says that you can make them from thin air; just that the materials to make them cost 0 GP. If you're planning on crafting quarterstaves and then selling them for firewood (I'm pretty sure that that's what you're referring to), then really what you're getting paid for is the service of gathering firewood, and at that point you might as well just use a profession skill.

It was just the first thing that came to mind. There are numerous other ways to break wpl at first level.

I agree with urashima though. Just have a well enough backstory. I could see the dark chaos shuffle being allowed for this purpose since The whole combination, while powerful, isn't totally broken in a mid-high op group.

The point I was trying to get across is: yes ... the dark chaos shuffle works even at first level if we assume the basic optimisation rules (permissive dm who goes by raw) since there are ways to earn that money.

[The Insanity]

Human gives you 2, 5 flaws gives you 5.