Sorcerer Discussion

[Vash9177]

So with the players handbook being out how do you like the sorcerer? What spell do you feel are the most powerful and any build advice on them as a whole?


Careful - Cost 1 point: Lets targets you choose auto succeed on saving throws for the spell
Distant - Cost 1 point: Double the range if range is 5 feet or make touch range of 30ft
Empowered - Cost 1 point: reroll damage dice equal to cha mod. Can be used with other metamagic
Extended - Cost 1: Double duration of spell if spell lasts for at least one minute
Heightened - Cost 3: Give one target disadvantage against spell
Quickened - Cost 2 points to make a spell a bonus action.
Subtle - Cost 1 point: remove verbal and somatic components
Twinned - Cost 1 point per spell level or 1 for a cantrip: use a single target spell and get to hit another creature in range.

1st: gives Base AC of 13 + DEX while not wearing armor
6th: CHA to damage of spells with the same type as your dragon and can send 1 sorcery point to gain resistance to that energy type for 1 hour
14th: Flight equal to your current speed as a bonus action and lasts until wings are dismissed
18th: Spend 5 sorcery points to put out an aura that forces a wisdom saving throw for up to a minute as a concentration spell. You select whether those who fail are charmed or frightened.

1st: DM may have you roll a d20 when casting a spell 1st or higher, if you roll a one roll on the wild magic table for a random effect. Also advantage on one save, skill, or attack roll per long rest, when you cast a spell of first or higher DM may let you roll on the wild magic table to regain use of this feature.
6th: Spend 2 points as a reaction to have anyone you can see get +/- 1d4 to a save, skill, or attack roll.
14th: When you roll on the wild magic table, roll twice and pick one.
18th: Once per turn you can when you roll the highest number on damage dice for a spell you may reroll one of those dice and add that result to the damage.

So far for blasting Twin seems cool, and quicken is nice as always IMO. I'd probably start with those two and then take heighten at level 10 and not really sure to take for the last one.

[Vash9177]

Added some more info to the OP and looking for more general discussion over the class as a whole.

Currently playing a gold dragonborn sorcerer with gold draconic origin. Only level 1 right now but thinking of picking quicken and twinned as my first two metamagic options.

[Yorrin]

I think the design on this class is interesting. As one might expect- Draconic is the more consistently useful of the two and Wild has potential for great good or great failure. Being the relatively conservative player that I am I'd probably go with the Draconic myself, but I can see how Wild would be a draw to some people.

I think the metamagic is also interestingly implemented. Some are obviously better than others for general use. Subtle, for example, is rarely worth a point, whereas extended, on the spells it applies to, is almost always worth it. Others are better for some spells and worse for others. For example the scaling cost makes twinned better for low level spells, and the high base cost makes heightened really only worth it on your big guns (level 7+ spells). I still need to do the math on empowered, but it looks bad to me. Anyone tried this out in-game?

[Falka]

I've been always interested in the RP fluff behind Dragon Disciples, so being able to tap into full arcane power while keeping that RP relevant as well is a win-win situation for me.

My character is going to be a Sorceress, in fact.

All Metamagic feats are good, imo. Subtle can help A LOT in several RPs. Also, Careful is great if you go down on the Evocation road.

[Demonic Spoon]

Being able to cast without verbal/somatic components is really awesome because Silence this edition does not have a save.

[akaddk]

The only thing I'm finding frustrating is getting a bloody answer from the DM about whether or not wild surges will be checked for every time. If I get to the table and he ends up saying that he'll only check once a session or something else ridiculous, I'll be ropeable.

[weaklyineffable]

I still need to do the math on empowered, but it looks bad to me.
It's pretty bad, in my opinion. Here's the expected damage for various dice, assuming you always use the empowered reroll when you roll below average damage:



normal
empowered


d4
2.5
3


d6
3.5
4.25


d8
4.5
5.5


d10
5.5
6.75


d12
6.5
8


For reference, a fireball cast from a 3rd level slot does an average of 28 damage, assuming a failed save. With empowered spell, the average damage jumps up to only 34 (actually slightly less, because you might roll poorly on more than Cha mod many dice). That's not a great increase in damage. For comparison, at 10th level evokers get the ability to add their Int mod to damage of all evocation spells. It's not quite as big of a bonus, but you can use it all day e'ry day.

The other problem with empowered spell is that it only lets you reroll damage dice. You can't use it on something like sleep, where it might actually be useful. Blasting spells seem pretty weak in 5e, since you have to cast them in higher slots to keep their damage competetive as you level. The extra damage from empowered spell isn't enough to keep up with scaling monster hit points. Sorcerers only get up to four different options for metamagic, and empowered spell just doesn't make the cut.

[Yorrin]

The only thing I'm finding frustrating is getting a bloody answer from the DM about whether or not wild surges will be checked for every time. If I get to the table and he ends up saying that he'll only check once a session or something else ridiculous, I'll be ropeable.

Yeah, this is another reason I'd pick Draconic over Wild- Wild is too dependent on the DM for actually letting you activate your class powers. Personally if I have a Wild Magic Sorc in a party I DM, I'll basically tell them "you can do this 1d4 times per combat and once between each combat" unless that gets out of hand.


helpful post

Yeah, that's about what I figured. Thanks for the post!

[weaklyineffable]

Yeah, that's about what I figured. Thanks for the post!No problem!

On the topic of sorcerous origins, am I the only one who feels that draconic sorcerers essentially getting free mage armor is a pretty big advantage, especially at low levels? Sorcerers get so few spells known that spending one to have higher than 10+Dex AC seems like a pretty steep cost. At first level that's half your spells known and half your spell slots per day.

[Yorrin]

No problem!

On the topic of sorcerous origins, am I the only one who feels that draconic sorcerers essentially getting free mage armor is a pretty big advantage, especially at low levels? Sorcerers get so few spells known that spending one to have higher than 10+Dex AC seems like a pretty steep cost. At first level that's half your spells known and half your spell slots per day.

Definitely on the same page with you there. Having a decent AC with minimal investment is a huge boon. Cha+Dex seems like the winner stat combo for a lot of classes in 5e (Sorc, Warlock, Bard, even some Pali builds).

[linklele]

The Dragon Origin sounds reliable, but personally i'd like more to play the wild one... well, just because it sounds fun to play! So you can chat with your friends like "Hey remember when we where going to crush our villain but then I lost all my hair?":smallbiggrin:

[Vash9177]

I do really like the armor boost, the extra 3 ac has saved me quite a bit in the first chapter of The Hoard of the Dragon Queen story. Also it comes kind of late but the constant flight looks really useful.

[Demonic Spoon]

For reference, a fireball cast from a 3rd level slot does an average of 28 damage, assuming a failed save. With empowered spell, the average damage jumps up to only 34 (actually slightly less, because you might roll poorly on more than Cha mod many dice). That's not a great increase in damage. For comparison, at 10th level evokers get the ability to add their Int mod to damage of all evocation spells. It's not quite as big of a bonus, but you can use it all day e'ry day.

The other problem with empowered spell is that it only lets you reroll damage dice. You can't use it on something like sleep, where it might actually be useful. Blasting spells seem pretty weak in 5e, since you have to cast them in higher slots to keep their damage competetive as you level. The extra damage from empowered spell isn't enough to keep up with scaling monster hit points. Sorcerers only get up to four different options for metamagic, and empowered spell just doesn't make the cut.


And what if you only, say, roll 20 on your damage? That's 14 extra damage with zero extra expenditure in actions. It's to protect you from crap damage rolls, it's not supposed to, by itself, allow your 3rd level spell to scale up to a level where you have access to 9th level spells. That's what your 9th level spells are for.

[Human Paragon 3]

I'm not the biggest fan of the sorcerer class. Compared with Warlock, it seems too similar to wizard. It's nice that they get to hack their spells and create extra slots and stuff, but it has this sort of "whatever" feel to it.

I also wish there was a third option beyond Wild and Draconic. Warlock gets 3 and 3 pacts. Wizard gets 8 subclasses! Sorcerers either have to have dragon fluff or take a set of features built around randomness. Either of these sound fun, but I don't agree that they appeal to all players.

I probably will never play a sorcerer with warlock and wizard as juicy options with better flavor and features. Not to mention Bard.

[weaklyineffable]

And what if you only, say, roll 20 on your damage? That's 14 extra damage with zero extra expenditure in actions.It's true that empowered spell skews the probability distribution away from really low rolls. But it doesn't really make sense to compare a specific roll to the average across all rolls. You should compare a specific roll to the expected damage given you choose to reroll some of those dice. Suppose you cast burning hands as a 1st level spell and roll a 1, a 3, and a 4 for a total of 8. Using empowered spell to reroll the 1 and the 3, you would have an expected damage of 11, for a difference of 3 extra damage. That's the comparison you should make, not the comparision to 12.75, which is the average damage across all rolls.

From how I understand the rules, you have to choose to use empowered spell before you see the results of the roll. The PHB says "when you roll damage for a spell, you can spend 1 sorcery point to reroll..." This is slightly different verbiage than the other metamagic options, which read "when you cast a spell that..." However, for those you have to choose to use the metamagic before you see the effect of the spell; e.g. you can't use heightened spell after your foe has rolled a save. By analogy, you would then have to choose to use empowered spell before you see the results of the damage roll. So you can choose to use it after you see that your attack roll succeeded, but you can't choose to use it after you see the damage you rolled. It also lacks the verbiage seen in abilities that explicitly allow you to make decisions after the roll is seen. Compare to the wild magic's bend luck ability: "You can do so after the creature rolls, but before any effects of the roll occur."

If you could choose to use empowered spell after you see the damage roll, it would get a little better. You'd be able to choose to use it when you roll multiple really low values and you get the most bang for your buck.

[Demonic Spoon]

Empower specifically allows you to reroll after you see the results of the first roll

[EvilAnagram]

I'm really excited about this class. One of my favorite characters from last edition was a chaos sorcerer with a WIS 8 named Prudence. She was a fun one.

And I love the wild table. It's pure awesome!

[weaklyineffable]

Empower specifically allows you to reroll after you see the results of the first roll

Could you show me where in the PHB it says that?

[ImperiousLeader]

Can one spend the point to Empower after casting the spell, though? That'd make it a bit more worthwhile.

ETA: Huh, the wording is that you can spend the Sorcery point after you roll damage, which would indicate that you do indeed spend the point after casting the spell. That indicates to me that you can use it after casting the spell. That also tracks with the idea that Empower is the only Metamagic that explicitly allows you to use it with another Metamagic.

I actually quite like Subtle Spell, it won't see everyday use, but casting unobtrusively could be quite good in an intrigue campaign. I'd sooner take the Spell Sniper feat than Distant Spell ... unless there's a good array of touch spells. I dunno, maybe if I were a Bard, Cure Wounds at range would be good. Heighten is definitely a solid take. I like Quicken more in a multiclass build, as casting as a bonus action does not override the limit on casting spells, but if I had more do to with my action, like attack, then it'd be solid. I'll have to do the math on Twin Spell ... casting two spells may deal more overall damage than using the same Sorcery points for a higher level spell slot. But it's overly restrictive ... I'd love to launch two fireballs, even if I can't overlap their areas.

Right now, I'm working on homebrewing some Sorcerer-specific spells. And I think my first PC is going to be a Sorcerer. I've written up a street Urchin human Sorcerer. Basically Aladdin, though I'm going to snap my fingers with every fire spell I cast, like Roy Mustang.

[EvilAnagram]

Could you show me where in the PHB it says that?

The PHB says, "When you roll damage for a spell, you can spend 1 sorcery point to reroll a number of damage dice up to your Charisma modifier (minimum of 1)."

That implies that you have rolled, and you can now choose to spend that point to reroll.

[weaklyineffable]

The PHB says, "When you roll damage for a spell, you can spend 1 sorcery point to reroll a number of damage dice up to your Charisma modifier (minimum of 1)."

That implies that you have rolled, and you can now choose to spend that point to reroll.

Yes I saw that part of the PHB and even quoted it in my above post. Allow me to quote myself:


From how I understand the rules, you have to choose to use empowered spell before you see the results of the roll. The PHB says "when you roll damage for a spell, you can spend 1 sorcery point to reroll..." This is slightly different verbiage than the other metamagic options, which read "when you cast a spell that..." However, for those you have to choose to use the metamagic before you see the effect of the spell; e.g. you can't use heightened spell after your foe has rolled a save. By analogy, you would then have to choose to use empowered spell before you see the results of the damage roll. So you can choose to use it after you see that your attack roll succeeded, but you can't choose to use it after you see the damage you rolled. It also lacks the verbiage seen in abilities that explicitly allow you to make decisions after the roll is seen. Compare to the wild magic's bend luck ability: "You can do so after the creature rolls, but before any effects of the roll occur."

[EvilAnagram]

I would still go with roll damage, then decide. With Bend Luck, doing so after effects occur would break immersion and encourage a more meta approach to the ability. With this, being able to say, "I want a reroll," after the dice hit the table makes more sense than just guessing whether or not you'll need to use it. As it's written, it's a little vague and open to interpretation, but I don't think that you can safely apply one ability's restrictions to another ability in this game, even by analogy.

[Demonic Spoon]

It's poorly-worded regardless. However, the fact that it is specifically called out as being different (and can specifically stack with other metamagic) seems to imply that it doesn't follow the same rules as the others.

[Vash9177]

Can one spend the point to Empower after casting the spell, though? That'd make it a bit more worthwhile.

ETA: Huh, the wording is that you can spend the Sorcery point after you roll damage, which would indicate that you do indeed spend the point after casting the spell. That indicates to me that you can use it after casting the spell. That also tracks with the idea that Empower is the only Metamagic that explicitly allows you to use it with another Metamagic.

I actually quite like Subtle Spell, it won't see everyday use, but casting unobtrusively could be quite good in an intrigue campaign. I'd sooner take the Spell Sniper feat than Distant Spell ... unless there's a good array of touch spells. I dunno, maybe if I were a Bard, Cure Wounds at range would be good. Heighten is definitely a solid take. I like Quicken more in a multiclass build, as casting as a bonus action does not override the limit on casting spells, but if I had more do to with my action, like attack, then it'd be solid. I'll have to do the math on Twin Spell ... casting two spells may deal more overall damage than using the same Sorcery points for a higher level spell slot. But it's overly restrictive ... I'd love to launch two fireballs, even if I can't overlap their areas.

Right now, I'm working on homebrewing some Sorcerer-specific spells. And I think my first PC is going to be a Sorcerer. I've written up a street Urchin human Sorcerer. Basically Aladdin, though I'm going to snap my fingers with every fire spell I cast, like Roy Mustang.

Quicken also seems good since it would let you use the disengage action and then throw a spell out. Also love the character concept, after all fire is always fun.

[Demonic Spoon]

With regards to the earlier discussion about Empower Spell's usage allowing you to see the damage dice before you reroll them, here is the full text of the entry:


When you roll damage for a spell, you can spend 1 sorcery point to reroll a number of the damage dice up to your Charisma modifier (minimum of one). You must use the new rolls

You can use empowered spell even if you have already used a different Metamagic option during the casting of the spell

Bolded the relevant bit. It makes no sense if you haven't seen the dice before you choose to reroll them.

[HorridElemental]

Bolded the relevant bit. It makes no sense if you haven't seen the dice before you choose to reroll them.

Hey now, this is WotC we are talking about. The same company that allowed drowning to heal.

So I could see them screwing this up -_-

[Soras Teva Gee]

I had the opportunity to browse the PHB and my instictive reaction is that Sorceror might just be the strongest caster and therefore strongest class on the strength of metamagic.

See I noted that the new "default" method for a spell seems to be Duration:Concentration and I did not find any options to subvert the rule that casting a spell breaks Concentration... meaning that you have a lot fewer options to just cover the battlefield with magic. No mulitple summon spells (and the DM runs them now apparently) no multiple area effects all over the place, etc. A lot of buffs/debuffs looked to be single target too. That says to me that making sure that one spell works is suddenly a premium and playing with it with metamagic is a big booster.

Also I noted Grease is notably not subject to the above though I can't speak to the saving throw dynamic but I'll be unsuprised to learn in six months or so that say battlefield control is dominated by Quickened Grease combined with another spell or two like Evard's Hentai Show as your Concentration spell. Or just spamming Grease until out of Sorcery points.

[akaddk]

Also I noted Grease is notably not subject to the above though I can't speak to the saving throw dynamic but I'll be unsuprised to learn in six months or so that say battlefield control is dominated by Quickened Grease combined with another spell or two like Evard's Hentai Show as your Concentration spell. Or just spamming Grease until out of Sorcery points.

Grease isn't on the Sorcerer spell list.

[ImperiousLeader]

Also, casting a spell as a bonus action means you can't use your action to cast a spell, unless it's a cantrip. Quicken spell does not negate that, so two spells per round isn't going to happen.

[Soras Teva Gee]

Grease isn't on the Sorcerer spell list.

Well that takes care of that at least. Only browsing I didn't even check that the lists were different.

I still expect that sooner or later something will slip through that Quickened will make absurdly useful. Though a much reduced potential for that is far more manageable.

[akaddk]

Well that takes care of that at least. Only browsing I didn't even check that the lists were different.

I still expect that sooner or later something will slip through that Quickened will make absurdly useful. Though a much reduced potential for that is far more manageable.

To be honest I'm not even sure why you think casting two Grease spells a turn is absurdly useful. It's been my experience, throughout every edition, that AoE spells of any type tend to shut down the PC's more than the monsters. The only exception to that being when the entire party works with the spellcaster to exploit their spell selection, which is a scenario that regardless of the system being used is going to create problems.

[Soras Teva Gee]

To be honest I'm not even sure why you think casting two Grease spells a turn is absurdly useful. It's been my experience, throughout every edition, that AoE spells of any type tend to shut down the PC's more than the monsters. The only exception to that being when the entire party works with the spellcaster to exploit their spell selection, which is a scenario that regardless of the system being used is going to create problems.

Hammer and Anvil tactics. Cast a spell to prevent retreat/advance/movement, and then another spell (overlapping or right beside the block) to do the "attacking" in whatever form be it damage or debuffing. Leave the only way out to be right into the concentrated party formation after being weakened. Or not even that open. Finish off by adding disposable summons that are just tough enough after what you already did to the enemies and that's where "one man party" claims start.

That's the theory anyways its never been my play style on tabletop but I see the potential since I did it in BGII all the time with things like Web+Cloudkill as the latter was static there. Its why people rave about certain Wall of X spells and Grease is a low level movement stopper if you can't make the save you can plop in a bottleneck. And as long as you're either not allowing saving throws, or they just are very poor options then battlefield control should often work. Depending on level and environment and how the enemies are set up.

However if you can't keep multiple spells going you can't get that going at all. So anything you don't need to Concentrate on would be the only way to get that going without multiple casters. And Quicken was generally the broadest way to get out 2 spells a round. Unless of course the one AoE spell is sufficient on its own.

[EvilAnagram]

To be honest I'm not even sure why you think casting two Grease spells a turn is absurdly useful. It's been my experience, throughout every edition, that AoE spells of any type tend to shut down the PC's more than the monsters. The only exception to that being when the entire party works with the spellcaster to exploit their spell selection, which is a scenario that regardless of the system being used is going to create problems.

I have the opposite experience most of the time. I had a 4e group with three wizards, and we faced a nasty group of drow in a cramped corridor. We laid down two Fountains of Flame and a Phantom Chasm, then spent the rest of the encounter pushing the would-be drow assassins through all three zones. It was glorious. Then there was my shielding swordmage who spent half a session teleporting a spider web golem into fire bursts. Or the cultists of a god of murder who were trapped between two nasty bursts with a fighter on each side keeping them from running through them while the thief and wizard fired at them indiscriminately.


Also, casting a spell as a bonus action means you can't use your action to cast a spell, unless it's a cantrip. Quicken spell does not negate that, so two spells per round isn't going to happen.
What? Why?

[akaddk]

That's the theory anyways its never been my play style on tabletop but I see the potential since I did it in BGII all the time with things like Web+Cloudkill as the latter was static there.
Yeah, I get the theory, I've just never seen it play out like that at the table.


I have the opposite experience most of the time.
I think your DM was being generous. I'm not that kind of DM :)

[EvilAnagram]

I think your DM was being generous. I'm not that kind of DM :)

It was more that our party knew each other's spells and abilities insanely well, so we would combo the hell out of everything while the DM watched open-mouthed.

[kattahn]

Wild sorcerer seems to be terrible. I get the fun fluffy flavor of it all, but it just seems like it will almost never trigger. Having your class defining ability trigger once a month would kill it for me. I like the idea of a chaos sorc, id just like it to happen more often. I heard a suggestion on the WOTC forums of requiring you to roll at or under the spell level of what your casting to trigger it, which would make way more sense.

Dragon sorc seems really strong, good inherent abilities.

Metamagic overall seems weak, except for twin spell or the swift spell. Careful metamagic seems bad, as it only makes a 100% save chance, rather then excluding damage like an evocationist's sculpt spell.

Spell list doesn't have grease...this would probably make me never play a sorc. Grease is just one of my favorite(and one of the most powerful spells) in the game. I think ive cast it more than any other spell, between 3.5, PF, and the next alpha/beta.

[EvilAnagram]

Wild sorcerer seems to be terrible. I get the fun fluffy flavor of it all, but it just seems like it will almost never trigger. Having your class defining ability trigger once a month would kill it for me. I like the idea of a chaos sorc, id just like it to happen more often. I heard a suggestion on the WOTC forums of requiring you to roll at or under the spell level of what your casting to trigger it, which would make way more sense.
I can see where you're coming from on this. I've already had it save my ass, so I'm inclined to like it. That said, I was easily rolling more than twenty spells a session (counting cantrips), so I think it'll go off more often than you think.


Metamagic overall seems weak, except for twin spell or the swift spell. Careful metamagic seems bad, as it only makes a 100% save chance, rather then excluding damage like an evocationist's sculpt spell.
Metamagic is pretty situational, but I think you get enough options to enjoy it.

[kattahn]

I can see where you're coming from on this. I've already had it save my ass, so I'm inclined to like it. That said, I was easily rolling more than twenty spells a session (counting cantrips), so I think it'll go off more often than you think.


Metamagic is pretty situational, but I think you get enough options to enjoy it.

FYI, its only supposed to trigger off 1st or higher spells.

[EvilAnagram]

FYI, its only supposed to trigger off 1st or higher spells.

Then I guess we accidentally houseruled it. *shrug*

In that case, yeah, it needs to occur more often.

[1of3]

If you cast spell as a bonus action (the effect of Quicken) you can cast no other spell that turn, except for cantrips. See chapter about spells.

That's also the reason why Twin is much more expensive. Or at least one of the reasons.

[kattahn]

Then I guess we accidentally houseruled it. *shrug*

In that case, yeah, it needs to occur more often.

Triggering off cantrips would make it much cooler, but then you run into the trouble of the person sitting there casting prestidigitation over and over again until they get a surge with the effect they want.

I wonder if multiclassing into warlock and taking one of the invocations that allows casting 1st level spells at will would be a loophole?

[Twelvetrees]

I wonder if multiclassing into warlock and taking one of the invocations that allows casting 1st level spells at will would be a loophole?
I doubt it. Wild Magic Surge triggers off sorcerer spells, and I don't think spells that you got from being a warlock would qualify.

[EvilAnagram]

Triggering off cantrips would make it much cooler, but then you run into the trouble of the person sitting there casting prestidigitation over and over again until they get a surge with the effect they want.

That wouldn't be a problem because in addition to the fact that you'll still only hit it 5% of the time, you still have a d100 table to roll off of.

[kattahn]

I doubt it. Wild Magic Surge triggers off sorcerer spells, and I don't think spells that you got from being a warlock would qualify.

I'd have to read the multiclass ruling, but general spells count as a class spell if its on that class list. I know MC sorc/warlocks can cast sorc spells through warlock spell slots and acan cast warlock spells through sorc spell slots, so it should count. I just don't have the book on me and would have to check a few things.

[Human Paragon 3]

It would be cool if there was a bigger table, say, 1,000 results. Maybe as a supplemental PDF or something.

[EvilAnagram]

It would be cool if there was a bigger table, say, 1,000 results. Maybe as a supplemental PDF or something.

...how so?

[Twelvetrees]

I'd have to read the multiclass ruling, but general spells count as a class spell if its on that class list. I know MC sorc/warlocks can cast sorc spells through warlock spell slots and acan cast warlock spells through sorc spell slots, so it should count. I just don't have the book on me and would have to check a few things.
Really? That would be awesome.

Hmm...I wonder if I could associate fey pact and wild magic...

[Human Paragon 3]

...how so?

It just doesn't seem wild enough as is. "With the strangeness of wild magic, anything could happen! It's the power of chaos! It's totally unpredictable and could be ANYTHING... as long as it's one of these few dozen things."

[pwykersotz]

It just doesn't seem wild enough as is. "With the strangeness of wild magic, anything could happen! It's the power of chaos! It's totally unpredictable and could be ANYTHING... as long as it's one of these few dozen things."

One of my DM's does a great job improvising this kind of thing. You summon Modrons? Well, this place is more tied to chaos...so you get Slaadi. You turn into a plant in the underdark? It's a mushroom instead. I'm not doing him justice, he's way more spontaneous than me, but you get the idea. Just take the concept and fit it to the situation.

[kattahn]

Really? That would be awesome.

Hmm...I wonder if I could associate fey pact and wild magic...

Yeah. Warlocks get the short end of the stick for mulitclassing with other casters, but it *does* all stack. Just read the multiclass section on all the spellcasting types and you see that they can all intermix their stuff.

[DireSickFish]

What? Why?

PHB Pg 202 under Casting Time and Bonus Action


A spell cast with a bonus action is especially swift. You must use a bonus action on your turn to cast the spell, provided that you haven't already taken a bonus action this turn. You can't cast another spell during the same turn, except for a cantrip with a casting time of 1 action.

Bold emphasis mine.

[EvilAnagram]

It just doesn't seem wild enough as is. "With the strangeness of wild magic, anything could happen! It's the power of chaos! It's totally unpredictable and could be ANYTHING... as long as it's one of these few dozen things."

Right, but insofar as it's a simulation, the few dozen things are really all you need. You're suggesting making a 1000 thing pamphlet that will provide you with more things you won't need. The Wild magic is wild because random crap can happen in amusing and awesome ways. Having a 1000 item pamphlet would slow things down considerably without adding any actual benefit.

[Twelvetrees]

Yeah. Warlocks get the short end of the stick for mulitclassing with other casters, but it *does* all stack. Just read the multiclass section on all the spellcasting types and you see that they can all intermix their stuff.
I had just been going off of the part where it stated that each spell was associated with one of your classes when you have two classes with the spellcasting feature, but it does appear that Warlock is different.

[Human Paragon 3]

Right, but insofar as it's a simulation, the few dozen things are really all you need. You're suggesting making a 1000 thing pamphlet that will provide you with more things you won't need. The Wild magic is wild because random crap can happen in amusing and awesome ways. Having a 1000 item pamphlet would slow things down considerably without adding any actual benefit.

An app then. It'd be faster and better.

[Soras Teva Gee]

An app then. It'd be faster and better.

I think a large part of the point of table top is still that you don't have to have technology to play it.

(Yes calculators help but they're still strictly supplements for a lazy generation that doesn't like scratch paper)

[Human Paragon 3]

I think a large part of the point of table top is still that you don't have to have technology to play it.

(Yes calculators help but they're still strictly supplements for a lazy generation that doesn't like scratch paper)

I frequently see people use (or use myself) digital die rollers and character sheets. Adding a supplemental wild mage app would be fun, and not everyone would have to use it.

[Soras Teva Gee]

I frequently see people use (or use myself) digital die rollers and character sheets. Adding a supplemental wild mage app would be fun, and not everyone would have to use it.

Dude I mostly roleplay online, I still stand by my point that its not going to be table-top anymore if you literary need a piece of electronics to play the game.

The solution you are looking for isn't "app for random effect" its "the DM makes crazy **** up, have fun" which is much simpler to implement.

[Malifice]

Well that takes care of that at least. Only browsing I didn't even check that the lists were different.

I still expect that sooner or later something will slip through that Quickened will make absurdly useful. Though a much reduced potential for that is far more manageable.

Might want to read the section about 'spells cast as bonus actions' (like quickened spells) in the spellcasting section.

Expressly states that you cant cast another spell that round with your regular action.

So no 2 x spells per round with quicken spell (you'll need a two level fighter dip and Action surge for that)

[TheSethGrey]

It would be cool if there was a bigger table, say, 1,000 results. Maybe as a supplemental PDF or something.

http://rpggeek.com/thread/505946/dd-4th-edition-totally-random-magic-effects-table

I used to use that for Random Effects in 4e, not sure if it still holds up in 5e, or if all of them are balanced or make sense. (There's 1,000 of them, ain't nobody got time for that.)

[oncnawan]

Overall, I love the sorcerer class. The biggest failure of the class, however, is the unbalanced options available for elemental spell casting. Sorcerers get good fire spells every level. How many acid, how many cold, how many lightning? Very, very few, and far spaced. Any draconic origin sorcerer that wants to take advantage of the sixth level feature is going to go fire-based (red or gold or brass dragon). Spells on the list that sorcerers don't get? Off the top of my head, Melf's Acid Arrow and Otiluke's freezing sphere. For a class that is supposed to be the blaster, how do you justify leaving elemental blasting spells off the list? That is poor design.

[akaddk]

Overall, I love the sorcerer class. The biggest failure of the class, however, is the unbalanced options available for elemental spell casting. Sorcerers get good fire spells every level. How many acid, how many cold, how many lightning? Very, very few, and far spaced. Any draconic origin sorcerer that wants to take advantage of the sixth level feature is going to go fire-based (red or gold or brass dragon). Spells on the list that sorcerers don't get? Off the top of my head, Melf's Acid Arrow and Otiluke's freezing sphere. For a class that is supposed to be the blaster, how do you justify leaving elemental blasting spells off the list? That is poor design.

The first splat book will be entirely elemental based, according to rumour.

[Yorrin]

The first splat book will be entirely elemental based, according to rumour.

I have heard a similar rumor. I'm hoping that it gives us new Sorc + Warlock origin/patron options, and it's almost been guaranteed that it's got some new backgrounds and races.

[oncnawan]

It's good to hear that there will be material to shore up that weakness. However, I still don't understand the decision to publish elemental spells and then deny them to the sorcerer, unless they are intentionally leaving incomplete areas in core to promote sale of splat books.

My DM gave my sorcerer access to Melf's A.A. and Otiluke's F. S., so I'm not too broken up about it.

[ImperiousLeader]

I'm surprised that Energy Substitution isn't a Metamagic option.

[Demonic Spoon]

I'm surprised that Energy Substitution isn't a Metamagic option.

Seems like it would be too trivial a way to counteract energy resistant/immune monsters (and make useless the feat that lets you ignore resistance).

[Sartharina]

Triggering off cantrips would make it much cooler, but then you run into the trouble of the person sitting there casting prestidigitation over and over again until they get a surge with the effect they wantI thought preventing this was the point of the baneful effects, like fireball