stacking rage bonuses because i can

[KingSmitty]

so i've noticed that rage-like abilities stack with barbarian's rage, pumping strength and constitution to amazing new heights!

So far I have only found a few that are worthwhile for a half ogre:

Barbarian (duh) +4 str and con +10 speed
Fist of the Forest + 4 dex +2 dmg magic claws at level 3 +10 speed and Con to AC (more on that later)
Berserk +6 str and con ability not unlike frenzied berserker, though the will save gets progressively harder to beat, also +10 speed

with the quick trait and being a large character, 80 ft movement speed, most likely going to get pounce with barbarian so i trade one of those fast movements

my google-fu isn't too strong, so thats the most i have found that are easily achieved
what other easily qualifiable ones are there?

+2LA Half Ogre
Barbarian1-rage 1/day,Pounce(SpiritLion),Power Attack, Improved Bullrush(flaw),Toughness(flaw),Great Fort(flaw)
Fighter1- Endurance
Barbarian 2- IUAS, ImpTrip(wolf totem)
DungeoncrasherACF fighter 2- 4d6 +2xstr from obstacles
FotF1-Con to AC, Feral trance 1/day, Fast movement, primal living
Berserk 1 -Battle fury 1/day, +10 ft. movement, SelfSufficient
FotF2-Uncanny Dodge, Untamed strike
FotF3-Feral trance 2/day, scent
Primeval 1 - Primeval form 1/day, animal empathy, Knockback
warblade 1-because ToB is great

with a few flaws this is doable, netting me somewheres in the 40's str when i activate all theses abilities at once combined with Primeval Dire Ape form which is the whole point of this build, +12 str and the ability to wield weapons still

all of the constitution modifiers to AC gives me somewhere around 30 ac unarmored, more with buffs such as cats grace and stuff and rings of shield/protection and stuff

if anyone has advice to cleaning this build up a bit i'd love them, with 3 flaws (allowed by my DM instead of the normal 2, though technically i can have more, idk which ones would be worth losing out on abilities but thats a different topic) this can be achieved. I still want to have improved bull rush and knockback picking up dungeoncrasher dice at fighter 2 but i can always say no to those dice and pick up knockdown at level 4 instead and trip attacks to everyone i deal 10 damage to

the downside to this is low amounts of rages per day, but with multiple different ones it isn't too bad, and with massive amounts of con most battles won't get that far before they run out
will saves are just gonna wreck me

If i can find a way to fit destructive and intimidating rage in here somehow frenzied berserker 10 would add a ton of win, if i am allowed to retrain my prereq feats we're in the money



my whole party died off at level 4 due to a severe miscalculation from our party's duskblade with burning hands and a ship IN THE MIDDLE OF THE FRICKIN OCEAN that we had no ability to control. either because of the lack of sails from a recent fire mishap and the fact the whole crew was killed because of said fire mishap and no ranks is profession:sailing..storm comes along and goodbye everyone, except the party druid who sailed off into the sunset on a dolphin.:smallfurious: i want to come back as a one man wrecking crew and perhaps be the next one to kill everyone off haha

[Ellowryn]

There is also Wildrunner, Bear Warrior (Changes your rage, but for the better), and Bloodclaw master.

Good luck getting everything to fit, but there is plenty of stuff to stack.

For something that is almost literally unstoppable you can go warforged barbarian 1, fighter 4, warforged juggernaut 5, berserker 10.

[KingSmitty]

unfortunately warforged is not allowed this go around, or else it wouldve been my first choice. Bear warrior! duh i totally forgot about that one...hmmmmmm

ill have to take a look at wild runner

[Extra Anchovies]

A question: From what book is the berserker, and what is it about its abilities that makes it superior to the Frenzied Berserker from Complete Warrior? Unless they're the same thing and I'm bad at reading :smallbiggrin:

[bjoern]

I had fun with a similar build once. I was a barbarian / frenzied berserker who was a natural lychanthrope crocodile.
He got another 2LA from lychanthrope and 3HD from his crocodile form and I think +8str, and a bunch of other nice buffs while in hybrid bipedal form so I could still use weapons and armor. And DR/10 silver.
I believe my str was
18
+2 race
+4 levels
+4 item
+4rage
+6 frenzy
+8 hybrid form

So like 46 I think. Not a perfect optimization but I had fun with it.

[KingSmitty]

A question: From what book is the berserker, and what is it about its abilities that makes it superior to the Frenzied Berserker from Complete Warrior? Unless they're the same thing and I'm bad at reading :smallbiggrin:


Berserk (Deities and Demigods p. 201) is not better than frenzied berserker by far, but an easy one level dip with no prereqs but proficiencies and BAB 5

[Ellowryn]

Sorry, i meant frenzied berserker for mine.

Yeah, bear warrior is awesome if you can get the Dm to allow you to use the un-errata'd version of his change shape so you don't have to waste a turn while someone puts on your gloves of man atfer you shift.

[TiaC]

There's also Sohei, Were-badger, Proto-creature and Shifter.

[Troacctid]

The Lost template (Magic of Incarnum p183-184) gives (among other things) +4 Str, +4 Con, and -6 Int, and causes you to fly into a "ragelike state" at the start of each combat that lasts 10 rounds and gives you temporary HP equal to twice your level and a bonus to damage rolls equal to half your level rounded up.

It is definitely not easy to qualify for, though, as the only way to gain it is by taking 6 points of intelligence damage within the bounds of a Lost Site associated with wrath.

[KingSmitty]

Yeah, bear warrior is awesome if you can get the Dm to allow you to use the un-errata'd version of his change shape so you don't have to waste a turn while someone puts on your gloves of man atfer you shift.

that shouldnt be as hard as saving up the money to buy them, theyre super costly, though i think that's the point. Thats why im taking Primeval, to get the Dire Ape form which with rage, gives me almost the same stat boosts and opposable thumbs with 1 level. Im still stumped at what my dice would be for the unarmed strikes with claw attacks

EDIT: Just looked over the Animal Devotion feat +2 profane/sacred bonus to str and increases by 2 for every six levels, +8 at level 18 for one feat isn't too shabby, and thats only one of the bonuses i can choose... decisions decisions

Warshaper is an obvious choice with primeval, 2 levels to become crit immune and an additional +4 str and con

so my half ogre so far with 12 levels: barbarian 2 / fighter 2 / FotF 3/ Berserk 1/ Primeval 1/ Warblade 1/Warshaper 2

plenty more levels to find ways to boost my rages but what im looking at without items or spells



StrDexConIntWisCha

Base Stats 2012 18101012

Rage+4+4

Primeval Dire Ape +12 +4 +4-8+2-4

Feral Trance +4

Battle Fury +6+6

Warshaper 2 +4+4

Animal Devotion Feat +6
----------------------------
Total5220362 :smalleek:128





i know there was an item enchant ive seen that when raging instead of +4's you get +6's but i cant seem to remember the name

[Immabozo]

Screw ogre, start with Anthromomorphic Baleen whale LA +0, 3 RHD, +6 str, +4 con, +4 dex, + 4 int, +6 wis, + 4 cha, 9 NA, size large


And then War Hulk 4 gives you +8 str and all attacks hit 3 squares.

[TiaC]

Screw ogre, start with Anthromomorphic Baleen whale LA +0, 3 RHD, +6 str, +4 con, +4 dex, + 4 int, +6 wis, + 4 cha, 9 NA, size large


And then War Hulk 4 gives you +8 str and all attacks hit 3 squares.

Add Wild and Proto-creature for another 6 Str.

[KingSmitty]

Imagining the laughter when i tell my party im a proto-whale of the wild baleen variety is almost enough for me to consider that. Though it would prevent me from dying on any more ships...

[Immabozo]

Imagining the laughter when i tell my party im a proto-whale of the wild baleen variety is almost enough for me to consider that. Though it would prevent me from dying on any more ships...

is this somehow a downside?

[KingSmitty]

is this somehow a downside?

any ability to prevent myself from dying is worth it in my book

[Ellowryn]

FYI primeval form only gives you the physical stats of the creature, so only Str, Dex, and Con. So no you don't become as dumb as an animal when you use it.

Also, as primeval form is a wild shape ability note that any item without a wilding clasp will get absorbed inot your new form.

[Elderand]

There's also bloodscaled fury from draconomicon which improves the bonus from rage.

On the other hand you need to be a dragon....and epic

[KingSmitty]

FYI primeval form only gives you the physical stats of the creature, so only Str, Dex, and Con. So no you don't become as dumb as an animal when you use it.

Also, as primeval form is a wild shape ability note that any item without a wilding clasp will get absorbed into your new form.

oh thats great news! and a wilding clasp isnt too expensive....is it?

EDIT: I could always steal one if not, because I will be scary strong.

[Ellowryn]

They are only 4k per, and can go on any item (MiCpg190 btw)

I would go Half-Minotaur Anthro Baleen whale for race.

For actual levels i would recomend barbarian 1/FotF 1(Feral Trance isnt that good)/Berserk 1/primeval 9/Warshaper 4.

For feats, Extra Rage, Extra Wild Shape, Reckless Rage, Ettercap Berserker

This gives you:
Str Dex Con Int Wis Cha
Base Stats +12 +4 +8 -2 +6
Rage +6 +8
FotF +4
Berserk +6 +6
Primeval (Base) +9 +5 +7 -3 -3 -3
Primeval (Wlid Shape) +12 +2 +2
Warshaper +4 +4
Total +49 +15 +35 -5 +3 -3

Not bad! :smalltongue:

Aaaand apparently the post doesn't like my table.... :smallfrown:

[Red Fel]

Well, a few other options for improving rage: Frostrager: Frostrager 1 adds a neat effect to your rage, giving you +4 natural armor, and 1d6 unarmed + 1d4 cold damage on your unarmed strikes (or 1d8 unarmed +1d4 cold if you're Large). Frostrager 2 gives you the effect of Whirling Frenzy at your option, at any time - even when not raging (but only unarmed). Frostrager 4 upgrades your rage again, increasing the natural armor, unarmed and cold damage. And Frostrager 5 gives you a rend attack. Black Blood Cultist: Really? Nobody mentioned this one? BBC levels stack with Barbarian levels for the purpose of calculating rage. BBC 1 grants you claw attacks while raging; BBC 3 adds a bite attack while raging; BBC 6 adds a rend attack while raging. BBC 7 gives you a damage upgrade to your claws and bites, and BBC 10 gives them to you even while not raging. Champion of Gwynharwyf: If you're Exalted, this is pretty neat. Righteous Wrath means you have self-control while raging and can intimidate by hitting evil enemies. CoG levels stack with Barb levels for purposes of calculating rage. Furious Casting means you can cast spells while raging, which is awesome. Fearsome Fury upgrades the intimidate effect to encompass any enemies within 30 feet while you rage. Apart from that, the class is basically a Barbarian-Paladin theurge. Runescarred Berserker: A bit awkward, because it doesn't progress rage, but it gives flat Extra Rage feats. Plus side, it lets you cast spells without being freaking Exalted, and as a bonus, scars are awesome on a Barbarian.
Personally, I'm a huge fan of Barbarian/FotF/Frostrager with Extra Rage, Instantaneous Rage, Intimidating Rage, Imperious Command, and Never Outnumbered. You do monster unarmed damage, can demoralize everything in the area just by getting cheesed off, and can flip out in an instant, even on someone else's turn - which means you can use your demoralization attempt to interrupt an action, such as spellcasting.

[Immabozo]

any ability to prevent myself from dying is worth it in my book

exactly


They are only 4k per, and can go on any item (MiCpg190 btw)

I would go Half-Minotaur Anthro Baleen whale for race.

For actual levels i would recomend barbarian 1/FotF 1(Feral Trance isnt that good)/Berserk 1/primeval 9/Warshaper 4.

For feats, Extra Rage, Extra Wild Shape, Reckless Rage, Ettercap Berserker

This gives you:
Str Dex Con Int Wis Cha
Base Stats +12 +4 +8 -2 +6
Rage +6 +8
FotF +4
Berserk +6 +6
Primeval (Base) +9 +5 +7 -3 -3 -3
Primeval (Wlid Shape) +12 +2 +2
Warshaper +4 +4
Total +49 +15 +35 -5 +3 -3

Not bad! :smalltongue:

Aaaand apparently the post doesn't like my table.... :smallfrown:

If you are going to go that far, Anthropomorphic Baleen Whale, Half Minotaur, Half Ogre (Templates from dragon mag) LA +1 RHD 3

Size: Large
Str +16 (+8 from antro. baleen whale, +4 from half mino., +4 from half ogre)
Dex +4
Con +6 (+4 from antro. baleen whale, +2 from half mino.)
Int = 11 (from anthropomprphic, I was slightly off on stat mods earlier), -2 from half mino, -2 from half ogre, INT 7 total
Wis +6 (from anthro. baleen whale)
Cha +2 (+4 from antro. baleen whale, -2 from half ogre)
NA 13 (+9 from antro. baleen whale, +2 from both half ogre and half mino.)
2D6 gore attack
darkvision
scent
Giant blooded (count as a giant)
other abilities and minor skill bonuses

level 2 of whirrling frenzy spirit lion totem barbarian, 4 levels of fighter (picking up Knockback and the various PA feats and shock trooper, Bear Warrior 1, Primeval 1 (megaraptor), War Hulk 4, War Shaper 3 is level 19

Str +46 (+8 from antro. baleen whale, +4 from half mino. +4 from half ogre +4 war shaper +8 bear warrior +8 War Hulk +10 primeval)

Dex +6 (+4 from antro. baleen whale +2 from bear warrior, +4 primeval)

Con +24 (+4 from antro. baleen whale +2 from half mino. +4 war shaper +4 from bear warrior +10 primeval)

Int 7 (= 11 (from anthropomprphic, I was slightly off on stat mods earlier), -2 from half mino, -2 from half ogre)

Wis +6 (from anthro. baleen whale)

Cha +2 (+4 from antro. baleen whale -2 from half ogre)

NA 21 (+9 from antro. baleen whale +2 from both half ogre and half mino. +2 bear warrior +6 primeval)

+2 dodge bonus to AC from rage

reach 15', all attacks hit 3 squares, pick up Steadfast Determination for con to will saves, Knockback gives you a free bull rush (where you dont move) with a full PA, 2 hand weapon and LA, at, at least, not counting starting stats, +71 (+8 size, +18 str, +45 PA)

[Ellowryn]

I'm not sure Bear warrior and primeval shape bonuses stack, as they are both effectively polymorph effects.

[Immabozo]

I'm not sure Bear warrior and primeval shape bonuses stack, as they are both effectively polymorph effects.

RAW, Bear warrior is not contingent on being in bear form to get the bonuses. The bonuses are given in rage in place of normal rage bonuses. As a separate sentence, you may turn into a bear. RAW, the stats are not contingent on being in bear form.

[KingSmitty]

RAW, Bear warrior is not contingent on being in bear form to get the bonuses. The bonuses are given in rage in place of normal rage bonuses. As a separate sentence, you may turn into a bear. RAW, the stats are not contingent on being in bear form.

"While in ____ bear form, he gains a __ bonus to Strength, a __ bonus to Dexterity, and a __ bonus to Constitution."

seems pretty solid to me, although i could be citing an errata'd source :smallfrown:

due to rage and primeval form netting the same str bonus, primeval seems to be slightly superior due to the slightly higher increase in dex along with the added benefit of fast movement with one level vs brown bear warrior at level 5. Although the bear warrior gains 2 extra con, this is negligible.



For actual levels i would recomend barbarian 1/FotF 1(Feral Trance isnt that good)/Berserk 1/primeval 9/Warshaper 4.....Aaaand apparently the post doesn't like my table.... :smallfrown:


feral trance may not be that great, but the increase in unarmed strikes for my claw attacks and picking up uncanny dodge and SCENT is my motivation to take all three levels of this d10 hd class. though looking at this build im questioning myself

yeah, it took me forever to get my table to look nice, not trying that again!


pick up Steadfast Determination for con to will saves

i didnt even know that feat existed, and i have to take endurance as a prereq anyway, winning!

being both crit immune and having a beastly will save will help me to destroy everything in my path, at that point taking righteous wrath seems almost unnecessary

[Immabozo]

"While in ____ bear form, he gains a __ bonus to Strength, a __ bonus to Dexterity, and a __ bonus to Constitution."

seems pretty solid to me, although i could be citing an errata'd source :smallfrown:

due to rage and primeval form netting the same str bonus, primeval seems to be slightly superior due to the slightly higher increase in dex along with the added benefit of fast movement with one level vs brown bear warrior at level 5. Although the bear warrior gains 2 extra con, this is negligible.

...

i didnt even know that feat existed, and i have to take endurance as a prereq anyway, winning!

Yes, the feat is beastly. Such a great one! The cant-autofail-saves-on-a-1 is nothing to sneeze at either! I had a level 15 character with that and a +30 fort save. I auto made every single fort save I was ever subjected to. It's effectively immunity to anything that requires a fort save, this side of a god casting spells on you.

at least according to the book, "The bear warrior retains the normal +2 to will saves and -2 penalty to armor class while raging, but the ability score bonuses granted by the rage or frenzy are replaced by the Strength, Dexterity and Constitution according to the bear form taken"

Damn, I guess I mis-read it before.

But, I guess a strict RAW reading says Bear Warrior gives him the +2 will during rage that Whirling ACF traded away!

[KingSmitty]

But, I guess a strict RAW reading says Bear Warrior gives him the +2 will during rage that Whirling ACF traded away!

i've noticed that as well. Unfortunately, "A character can’t use whirling frenzy at the same time that he uses any other form of rage (or similar ability)." i guess its just standard rage for me...unless i take ferocity and take rage from a different source like the ACF for druid, the Druidic Avenger. Theres another "form" of rage. This kinda works because Ferocity is closer to the fluff i'm looking for, and its an immediate action. Never again be suprised? yes.

So with all of this Dex my reflex saves are gonna rock, Fortitude is gonna be good regardless but now i can't auto fail, and then a single feat to boost my will saves to godlike proportions, immune to stunning and crits, and then retarded amounts of AC from con and dex basically makes me immune to attacks, all the while being unarmored.

ill have to build it up later, gotta take the lady out, but im looking at Ferocity, Feral Trance, Battle Fury, and then the DA's Rage, plus all of the other stat boosts and oh boy this is getting silly.

[Immabozo]

i've noticed that as well. Unfortunately, "A character can’t use whirling frenzy at the same time that he uses any other form of rage (or similar ability)." i guess its just standard rage for me...unless i take ferocity and take rage from a different source

It isn't another form of rage, it modifies the rage.

[Ellowryn]

Something else i don't understand, unless you have something homebrewed or is a feat somewhere in there that you didn't write down, is why should unarmed strike damage matter for your claw attacks? An unarmed strike is an unarmed strike while a claw is a claw, you don't add the damage together. And for FotF, all those last 2 levels give you is one bump up the damage category, you also gain scent from the 5th level of primeval, and yes uncanny dodge is good although i would recommend giving up levels of warshaper for them if you really wanted it that bad.

[Immabozo]

Something else i don't understand, unless you have something homebrewed or is a feat somewhere in there that you didn't write down, is why should unarmed strike damage matter for your claw attacks? An unarmed strike is an unarmed strike while a claw is a claw, you don't add the damage together. And for FotF, all those last 2 levels give you is one bump up the damage category, you also gain scent from the 5th level of primeval, and yes uncanny dodge is good although i would recommend giving up levels of warshaper for them if you really wanted it that bad.

If a PC has natural attack that he uses as his main attacks, he gets UA strikes up to full BAB as secondary attacks... or something like that, I think

[Red Fel]

If a PC has natural attack that he uses as his main attacks, he gets UA strikes up to full BAB as secondary attacks... or something like that, I think

Other way around. You can use your iterative attacks at regular BAB, and all natural weapons as secondary attacks. Which is fine, because you don't get iteratives with natural weapons. Also, you like UA because it receives the same benefits you gain to any other natural weapons, and because it's easier to switch between UAs and natural weapons than to drop a manufactured weapon and switch to natural weapons.

[Immabozo]

Other way around. You can use your iterative attacks at regular BAB, and all natural weapons as secondary attacks. Which is fine, because you don't get iteratives with natural weapons. Also, you like UA because it receives the same benefits you gain to any other natural weapons, and because it's easier to switch between UAs and natural weapons than to drop a manufactured weapon and switch to natural weapons.

Ah, I knew it was something like that, thank you.

and dropping the manufactured weapon is easy, going back is the hard part.

[AvatarVecna]

Bear Form (Su): Whenever a bear warrior enters a rage or frenzy, he can choose to assume bear form (similar to the polymorph spell). He must remain in bear form until the end of his rage or frenzy. When his rage or frenzy ends, the bear warrior immediately returns to his own form. The number of times a bear warrior can assume bear form is the number of times per day he enters a rage or frenzy.

The bear warrior retains the normal +2 bonus on Will saves and —2 penalty to Armor Class while raging, but the ability score bonuses granted by rage or frenzy are replaced by Strength, Dexterity, and Constitution bonuses appropriate to the bear form taken (see below). As normal for polymorph, the bear warrior gains the bear form's physical qualities (including size, movement, natural armor bonus, natural weapons, space, and reach), as well as any extra ordinary special attacks possessed by the form (such as improved grab in the brown bear or dire bear form). The transformation lasts for the duration of the rage or frenzy.

Firstly, you can't retain an ability you didn't have in the first place. If a PrC advances your spellcasting, but you don't have spellcasting to advance, you don't automatically get spellcasting. By the same token, if you traded away the Will save bonus for something, you can't get it back in bear form.

Secondly, the bear bonuses replace the bonuses for a rage or frenzy; when you rage or frenzy, you instead turn into a bear. The problem here is that you don't get to choose this, it just happens. This is only a problem if you have both rage and frenzy: bear form replaces them both, but unless your DM is particularly lenient/stupid, they won't let you stack bear rage with bear frenzy, as it doesn't work mechanically or fluff-wise. You'd get double the bear bonuses, which no DM will permit, because "fighters can't have nice things" mentality, so mechanics aren't allowed. As for fluff...what are you doing, turning into a double bear? I'm calling b.s. on that.

[Immabozo]

Firstly, you can't retain an ability you didn't have in the first place. If a PrC advances your spellcasting, but you don't have spellcasting to advance, you don't automatically get spellcasting. By the same token, if you traded away the Will save bonus for something, you can't get it back in bear form.

Secondly, the bear bonuses replace the bonuses for a rage or frenzy; when you rage or frenzy, you instead turn into a bear. The problem here is that you don't get to choose this, it just happens. This is only a problem if you have both rage and frenzy: bear form replaces them both, but unless your DM is particularly lenient/stupid, they won't let you stack bear rage with bear frenzy, as it doesn't work mechanically or fluff-wise. You'd get double the bear bonuses, which no DM will permit, because "fighters can't have nice things" mentality, so mechanics aren't allowed. As for fluff...what are you doing, turning into a double bear? I'm calling b.s. on that.

You are right, you can't retain something you never had. But I can still read it both ways. Not that I am ignorant to what is meant.

Double bear is just cool, that's why.

Beary Bearington anyone?

[AvatarVecna]

You are right, you can't retain something you never had. But I can still read it both ways. Not that I am ignorant to what is meant.

Double bear is just cool, that's why.

Beary Bearington anyone?

Why stop there? If you go Druidic Avenger (UA) instead of Barbarian, and then go into Frenzied Berserker/Bear Warrior, you can be a double bear who summons bears and has a bear animal companion and a werebear cohort.

Bears, bears, bears, bears, and more bears! You get bears! And you get bears! EVERYONE GETS BEARS!

[Ellowryn]

Well, you dont HAVE to change into a bear when you rage, there is a "can change" in there.

And while it is true that when you change into a bear it replaces both rage and frenzy, but if you frenzy after you change you get the benefits of frenzy. hardly a loophole, but still useful none the less.

[AvatarVecna]

Well, you dont HAVE to change into a bear when you rage, there is a "can change" in there.

And while it is true that when you change into a bear it replaces both rage and frenzy, but if you frenzy after you change you get the benefits of frenzy. hardly a loophole, but still useful none the less.


Bear Form (Su): Whenever a bear warrior enters a rage or frenzy, he can choose to assume bear form (similar to the polymorph spell). He must remain in bear form until the end of his rage or frenzy. When his rage or frenzy ends, the bear warrior immediately returns to his own form. The number of times a bear warrior can assume bear form is the number of times per day he enters a rage or frenzy.

The bear warrior retains the normal +2 bonus on Will saves and —2 penalty to Armor Class while raging, but the ability score bonuses granted by rage or frenzy are replaced by Strength, Dexterity, and Constitution bonuses appropriate to THE BEAR FORM TAKEN (see below). As normal for polymorph, the bear warrior gains the bear form's physical qualities (including size, movement, natural armor bonus, natural weapons, space, and reach), as well as any extra ordinary special attacks possessed by the form (such as improved grab in the brown bear or dire bear form). The transformation lasts for the duration of the rage or frenzy.

That may be true, Ellowryn, but by the same token, you don't get the ability bonuses for the bear form taken if you don't take bear form with the abilities mentioned. While you could bear-rage and then frenzy, or you could bear-frenzy and then rage, you still can't bear-rage and then bear-frenzy, since that would still require the "double-bear" explanation.

I'll point out that this just keeps someone from pulling off ridiculous strength bonuses while raging/frenzying; that said, if anyone's willing to argue hard enough to make double-bear work, they'd probably be just as happy with Cancer Mage shenanigans.

[Immabozo]

Why stop there? If you go Druidic Avenger (UA) instead of Barbarian, and then go into Frenzied Berserker/Bear Warrior, you can be a double bear who summons bears and has a bear animal companion and a werebear cohort.

Bears, bears, bears, bears, and more bears! You get bears! And you get bears! EVERYONE GETS BEARS!

An anthropomorphic bear, bear totem bearbearian, bear warrior, with vow of poverty and wild cohort bear, with a bear mount and fighting unarmed.

You are a bear, who fights for and worships bears, who gets so angry, he turns into a bear, rides bears into battle, followed by a bear, doesn't need treasure because he only needs the bear essentials, and fights with his bear hands for your right to bear arms.

It bears repeating.

[KingSmitty]

double bear eh? well there is a druid in the party named boo boo, he turns into bears too

i get the feeling you guys are trying to convince me it would be a good idea to turn into a bear

[super dark33]

An anthropomorphic bear, bear totem bearbearian, bear warrior, with vow of poverty and wild cohort bear, with a bear mount and fighting unarmed.

You are a bear, who fights for and worships bears, who gets so angry, he turns into a bear, rides bears into battle, followed by a bear, doesn't need treasure because he only needs the bear essentials, and fights with his bear hands for your right to bear arms.

It bears repeating.

How could you miss such a refrance. Thats unbearable of you. (http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=5dhSdnDb3tk)

[Immabozo]

How could you miss such a refrance. Thats unbearable of you. (http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=5dhSdnDb3tk)

I am disappointed in myself *cry*

[KingSmitty]

OK so after game night, half-ogre is out and a tweaked Half-Giant is in.

+1 LA +4str/+2con/-2int , i lose the racial bonus to fire damage and the psychic ability :smallfrown: , but gain power attack for free, Frost Resistance 5 and of course, i get powerful build so that extra d6 on my greatsword is nice.

still going ahead with my master plan of stacking rage-like abilties, with a feat slot open due to gaining power attack =)

[Immabozo]

OK so after game night, half-ogre is out and a tweaked Half-Giant is in.

+1 LA +4str/+2con/-2int , i lose the racial bonus to fire damage and the psychic ability :smallfrown: , but gain power attack for free, Frost Resistance 5 and of course, i get powerful build so that extra d6 on my greatsword is nice.

still going ahead with my master plan of stacking rage-like abilties, with a feat slot open due to gaining power attack =)

Still better than fighter, lol. Should be interesting

[KingSmitty]

Still better than fighter, lol. Should be interesting

I've already killed everyone I came across, enjoying it greatly. Since we are in the north, it fits in the area that i would be one of the norse-like men of the north, and now i get to have flowing blonde luxurious hair

[Immabozo]

I've already killed everyone I came across, enjoying it greatly. Since we are in the north, it fits in the area that i would be one of the norse-like men of the north, and now i get to have flowing blonde luxurious hair

Is your name Stark? Are you warden of the North?

[KingSmitty]

Is your name Stark? Are you warden of the North?

heh no, I am Ulfgar of the Northern Lion tribe.

at work i spent more time thinking of things to do with my character, and i remembered the spell Enlarge Weapon; increases the size of a weapon without the penalties.

I know theres an enhancement called sizing, but that doesn't negate the penalties... Would a wondrous item (gloves) with Enlarge Weapon be possible/legal? Im guessing that would be rather expensive too but I still haven't a grasp on magic item pricing because we always play low wealth campaigns and I never waste my gold on anything but the best (cheapest) enchantments

[Immabozo]

heh no, I am Ulfgar of the Northern Lion tribe.

at work i spent more time thinking of things to do with my character, and i remembered the spell Enlarge Weapon; increases the size of a weapon without the penalties.

I know theres an enhancement called sizing, but that doesn't negate the penalties... Would a wondrous item (gloves) with Enlarge Weapon be possible/legal? Im guessing that would be rather expensive too but I still haven't a grasp on magic item pricing because we always play low wealth campaigns and I never waste my gold on anything but the best (cheapest) enchantments

There are rules for custom magic items on the SRD