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View Full Version : Optimization Help make a Gray Man?



Qwertystop
2014-08-13, 10:10 PM
Specifically, the Wheel of Time sort (http://wot.wikia.com/wiki/Gray_Man) (not sure if something else used the name). Shorthand: a creature with the property of being so ignorable that they can assassinate people and not be noticed by anyone other than the person being stabbed, and even then not until they're well within reach. Presumably this would be a high Will save to see them.

I feel like the easiest way is homebrewing (make a mind-affecting version of invisibility, between normal and Greater - if you attack the person attacked sees you but nobody else does). That feels clumsy, though. Does anything for this exist in-rules, or can some such thing be cobbled together out of other abilities; or is this all in the territory of homebrew?

I'm trying to make a homebrew Invocation for the ability (has to stay weaker than Dark or there's no reason to take it over Retributive Invisibility), but as said the only way I could think of to do it feels clumsy. I was hoping for some ideas of already-extant ways to do this that could potentially inspire.

Flickerdart
2014-08-13, 10:13 PM
You want cloud mind (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/powers/cloudMind.htm) and the Mass version.

Thurbane
2014-08-13, 10:20 PM
Vecna Blooded template is great for being ignored. Maybe throw it on a Fiendish Skulk?

Nettlekid
2014-08-13, 11:55 PM
Combine the aforementioned Cloud Mind and other nondetection abilities (Psionics has several, I think) with Ebon Saint from CPsi. I love their "hit you and make you forget about them" abilities.

Zombulian
2014-08-14, 02:32 AM
Mongrelfolk sort of work for this. They have bonuses to Sleight of Hand, Hide, and Move Silently. It also talks about how they benefit from being hard to pin down as a race.

enderlord99
2014-08-14, 02:38 AM
I know it has already been mentioned, but Vecna-blooded is basically this, from what I've heard.

Cybris75
2014-08-14, 03:34 AM
(not sure if something else used the name)

I thought you were talking about the guys from Momo (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Momo_%28novel%29). These gray men steal time, in the form of flowers, roll the petals into cigars, and smoke it, in order to live on other people's time (probably because they don't have any of their own). Makes for very creepy monsters (time-stealing undead that age you, maybe?).

Qwertystop
2014-08-14, 08:59 AM
You want cloud mind (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/powers/cloudMind.htm) and the Mass version.
Mass Cloud Mind is actually perfect for this - exactly what I was going for. Now to figure out how much I can get away with expanding the amount of targets and dropping the duration to fit it in as Greater...

Combine the aforementioned Cloud Mind and other nondetection abilities (Psionics has several, I think) with Ebon Saint from CPsi. I love their "hit you and make you forget about them" abilities.
Problem is, that only works if you hit them nonlethally and then run away. Can't work to save you if you mess up an assassination attempt, because that'd be lethal damage and everyone else can still see you. Unless your plan is to club someone over the head, flee, come back in a minute, repeat until you finally manage to knock them out, and then kill them. If you can pull that off, I'm not sure how much there is stopping you from just stabbing them?

I know it has already been mentioned, but Vecna-blooded is basically this, from what I've heard.
More along the lines of immunity to divinations, isn't it? Does it do anything to stop someone from just seeing you standing there?

Thurbane
2014-08-14, 09:54 AM
More along the lines of immunity to divinations, isn't it? Does it do anything to stop someone from just seeing you standing there?
..........

Enigma Aura (Su): Once per day, as a standard action, a Vecna-blooded creature can wrap itself in an aura that makes creatures within 120 feet intermittently forget it’s there. At the start of each affected creature’s turn, that creature has a 50% chance to be unable to attack the Vecna-blooded creature in any way, including with spells and special abilities. The aura lasts for 1 minute after it’s activated.

Graypairofsocks
2014-08-14, 11:45 AM
The Void Incarnate PrC (found at the bottom of the page here (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ei/20030418a) and on page 34 of the PDF here (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ei/20030810a)) gains an ability (mind-affecting, but no save) at third level that makes their opponents ignore their presence.

However it is an Epic Level PrC.

Barstro
2014-08-14, 12:25 PM
Specifically, the Wheel of Time sort (http://wot.wikia.com/wiki/Gray_Man) not be noticed by anyone other than the person being stabbed.

For accuracy's sake, Graymen can be seen, just not directly. If I recall the books correctly, you'll never notice one if looking directly at it (as your eyes "slide right over them"), but you will notice him and/or his movement if you are looking at something else. Part of what makes them so useful in cities is that that last mentioned "weakness" is unnoticed amidst the bustle of city life.

I do not recall;
If Mat was able to fight one because he kept his eyes closed and used his other senses at first, or if he had a ter'angreal, or if I'm falsely remembering passages.

Graypairofsocks's idea seems closest to how I remember them to be.

Gildedragon
2014-08-14, 12:43 PM
Dark creature + Martial Stance: Child of Shadow
Get hide in plain sight active all the time. With high hide ranks you are all but invisible

nedz
2014-08-14, 01:02 PM
Shadow Creature Template (MotP p190) LA +3 though

TheGeckoKing
2014-08-14, 03:50 PM
The Void Walker (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/mm/20031219a) seems to be what you're looking for - it's invisible from all but True Seeing (and Void Disciples, I guess), and once it stabs its target it can revert back to invisibility as a free action to slink away.

Thurbane
2014-08-14, 05:42 PM
I actually own the WoT D20 game, I'l have a look and see how it stats Gray Men...

OK, they have an ability called "Beneath Notice". If it's not doing anything, it can basically use it's Hide skill to hide in plain sight without needing shadow or anything to hide behind. After it makes an attack or similar action, it takes a -10 penalty to further hide checks. They get a +8 racial bonus to Hide and Move Silently checks.

Honestly, a Dark Creature Vecna-Blooded Skulk is going to do a much better job of escaping notice using 3.5 rules.

Diachronos
2014-08-14, 06:29 PM
I do not recall;
If Mat was able to fight one because he kept his eyes closed and used his other senses at first, or if he had a ter'angreal, or if I'm falsely remembering passages..

Their "you don't notice anything" ability only really works until they attack, so fighting them isn't actually that hard. It's noticing them before they stab you that's the hard part. Mat only noticed he was there because he sawcthe door open and "nobody" came through.

Mechanically it'd probably be just Hide in Plain Sight with big Stealth bonuses until they attack something.