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Totema
2014-08-14, 12:09 AM
I'm going to start DMing this edition with my buddies this weekend. (Yay!) One of them wanted to know how rogues get sneak attack online, and I told him it's whenever they have advantage on attack rolls. Naturally, the next thing out of his mouth was, when does that happen? I could only tell him that it happens when your target can't see you (which also seemed vague; do you need to be hiding/invisible, or simply out of their field of vision?) I'm quite sure there are more, but I can't seem to find any more methods in the basic rules/PHB. Can anyone lend me a hand?

akaddk
2014-08-14, 12:24 AM
Rogues can also sneak attack when an enemy threatens the target.

Malifice
2014-08-14, 02:56 AM
I'm going to start DMing this edition with my buddies this weekend. (Yay!) One of them wanted to know how rogues get sneak attack online, and I told him it's whenever they have advantage on attack rolls. Naturally, the next thing out of his mouth was, when does that happen? I could only tell him that it happens when your target can't see you (which also seemed vague; do you need to be hiding/invisible, or simply out of their field of vision?) I'm quite sure there are more, but I can't seem to find any more methods in the basic rules/PHB. Can anyone lend me a hand?

Dip Barbarian 2. Advantage is there whenever you need it (at a cost, and you have to use strength with your finesse weapons). Get angry. Break stuff.

Dip Paladin (Vengance) 3. Once a short rest advantage for 1 minute against one foe. Go to town Dark Avenger.

Go mounted. Mounted Combat feat grants advantage when mounted when attacking anything not mounted. Grab a riding dog. Stab faces.

Dip Ranger 3. Grab a pet dog. Have it stay next to you. Sneak attack anyone the two of you threaten. Have a dog farm ready back in town to replace all the dogs your GM kills.

Combine the last two options. Profit.

Also, a few Battlemaster manouvers grant advantage for you swashbucking types.

Chaosvii7
2014-08-14, 03:17 AM
Before I list my ideas for ways to gain advantage, it should be made clear that Rogues gain Sneak Attack when they use an attack against an enemy that has at least on of their allies next to them. That means that any Rogue that isn't playing solo will have their sneak attack so long as they have a friend who fights primarily in melee.

Otherwise, here are some more ways to gain advantage:

Be a High Elf. High Elves gain a free cantrip of their choice from the Wizard list. True Strike is a spell that costs 1 action to cast that lasts for one round. You can cast it round one and advance, and then use it to deliver a sneak attack on the following round. This isn't overly optimal as it takes two turns to come online, but it doesn't require any help and you can certainly use it if you have a round to spare and don't think stealth will work.

Find familiar? I think so long as they familiar has a threat range, then you're fine. There's a few ways for Rogues to pick up Find Familiar; Arcane Tricksters can get it, but not until 8th level. A keen Rogue with the Magic Initiate feat can pick it up at 4th level to get the ability to cast it once per day. A bit of a waste of the feat, but you do also get a free cantrip that you can use to pick up an attack spell or some utility.

Excellent narration and description. A good DM ought to be keen with rewarding advantage for whatever circumstances that fit the narrative scenario and make relative sense to them. Don't be afraid to tell your rogue to think outside the box to get the job done if you're open to letting them give a one sentence narration that helps paint a quick scene of them attempting to gain the upper hand.

Frankly, looking at Advantage as a purely mechanical necessity that you've got to have the ability to get from abilities is, in my opinion, neither a realistic measure of the design intent of the edition, or very good reasoning on the part of the individual. It's an incentive that you use to embellish your storytelling experience while fairly rewarding excellent thinking. Like how some people toss out +1s and +2s for certain things, or how 3.5 had bonuses for the most miniscule of things like higher ground and tactical applications of items. It's not necessary, you can play by the books and not reward advantage for things that normally won't get it as part of their effect. But I think it really brings the group storytelling to life when somebody who tries to take a risk of the level of heavily characterizing their actions succeeds.

akaddk
2014-08-14, 04:05 AM
That means that any Rogue that isn't playing solo will have advantage so long as they have a friend who fights primarily in melee.
You're confusing sneak attack with advantage, they're not the same thing. A rogue can sneak attack a target that is in melee with an enemy (the specific wording means that it doesn't actually have to be the rogue's ally, it could be anyone the target is fighting), but they don't get advantage on that attack.

Malifice
2014-08-14, 04:17 AM
You're confusing sneak attack with advantage, they're not the same thing. A rogue can sneak attack a target that is in melee with an enemy (the specific wording means that it doesn't actually have to be the rogue's ally, it could be anyone the target is fighting), but they don't get advantage on that attack.

They could Aid another (use the Help action).

That works.

Chaosvii7
2014-08-14, 12:25 PM
You're confusing sneak attack with advantage, they're not the same thing. A rogue can sneak attack a target that is in melee with an enemy (the specific wording means that it doesn't actually have to be the rogue's ally, it could be anyone the target is fighting), but they don't get advantage on that attack.

Ohp, you're right, I said advantage when I meant sneak attack.

Either way, my point still stands; A rogue can throw a frog at somebody and then stab him in the jugular while he's distracted.

Person_Man
2014-08-14, 02:45 PM
The default method is to qualify for 5E Sneak Attack is to either "flank" an outnumbered enemy (though it doesn't use the word flank, and it's poorly worded, so RAW it allows for things like having mount threaten your enemy) or ambush your enemy, then use Cunning Action at the end of every turn to Hide, so that you can attack unseen at the start of your next turn. (Though this gives up your second attack from TWF, since it consumes your Bonus Action).

Though as other people have posted, there are lots of other ways.

Basically every status condition grants Advantage, which includes many different spells. You can also have a Str based party member use an attack action to Shove them Prone.

171akup
2016-02-16, 06:56 AM
Find familiar? I think so long as they familiar has a threat range, then you're fine. There's a few ways for Rogues to pick up Find Familiar; Arcane Tricksters can get it, but not until 8th level. A keen Rogue with the Magic Initiate feat can pick it up at 4th level to get the ability to cast it once per day. A bit of a waste of the feat, but you do also get a free cantrip that you can use to pick up an attack spell or some utility.


Ok Ok, so getting the feat at 4th level is possible but you can get it with human variant at first. Also this might be about 2 years old but I will correct your info so the future will know and not get confused.

Spells Known of 1st Level and Higher

You know three 1st level wizard spells of your choice, two of which you must choose from the Enchantment and Illusion spells on the wizard spell list.

It says only two of the spells are Enchantment or Illusion. I get it when ever I get Arcane Trickster.
Always read it because D&D 5e has very specific and also some what strange wording. :smallbiggrin:

Sir cryosin
2016-02-16, 09:12 AM
Grad the minor illusion cantrip. Use it to create a folder or rock whatever can fit within a five foot square then you could just sit inside and rain death with your bow that will give you a vantage giving you sneak attack and they won't know until they come in they inspect the rock

JackPhoenix
2016-02-16, 09:25 AM
An undead thread! Where did I put the holy water?

Oramac
2016-02-16, 09:32 AM
I made a post about this a little while back. Was hoping it'd get a sticky, but eh.

A (mostly) Exhaustive List of Advantage and Disadvantage (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?477392-A-(mostly)-Exhaustive-List-of-Advantage-and-Disadvantage)

Cybren
2016-02-16, 10:04 AM
Grad the minor illusion cantrip. Use it to create a folder or rock whatever can fit within a five foot square then you could just sit inside and rain death with your bow that will give you a vantage giving you sneak attack and they won't know until they come in they inspect the rock

Once they know arrows are shooting out of this rock they'll be aware enough not to give you advantage. They may not realize arrows are shooting out of that rock, but if I were your DM id put the onus on you to justify why not

hymer
2016-02-16, 10:07 AM
Was hoping it'd get a sticky, but eh.

Have you tried mentioning it to Daishain? He (?) has a thread (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?377491-Guides-Tables-and-other-useful-tools-for-5E-D-amp-D) for that sort of thing.

Sir cryosin
2016-02-16, 11:12 AM
You can use the rock like cover and then when they come over to get you just Hide in it. There should be no reason to investigate the rock if they saw you moving from behine the rock to shoot.

JackPhoenix
2016-02-16, 03:53 PM
You can use the rock like cover and then when they come over to get you just Hide in it. There should be no reason to investigate the rock if they saw you moving from behine the rock to shoot.

Shooting from or moving into the rock triggers the physical interaction clause and reveal the illusion.

Asmotherion
2017-02-11, 07:29 PM
For Sneak Attack, if you want to go stupidly Raw you could tachnically take the Find Familiar spell (Either with Arcane Trickster or Magic initiate/Ritual Caster), hide a frog familiar in your hat and go melee to quallify. Still, having a hawk use the help action (or an invisible Imp with a 3 level warlock dip) seems more appropriate, and feels better.

A fammiliar seems to be the best candidate for using the help action aka granting you advantage on your first attack roll that round. However, this is only good for damage that scales in one hit, such as Sneak Attack, Divine Smite, Firebolt or Finger of Death. Multi-hit builds such as the fighter's extra attack, eldritch blast and scorching ray don't benefit much of it, as it only applies to the first attack roll. However it's still better than True Strike, as it does not cost you an action.

Maximillian's Earthen Grasp can be usefull as it gives the Restrained Condition (both advantage to hit the target, and target's disadvantage to hit you), as long as the opponent is not proficient in Str saves, or otherwise a bulky Str focused character.

A grapler in the party can be very usefull for the same reason. Bigbi's hand too if you're a caster.

There is also Foresight in the broken 9th level spell category... but that's more of an "I win" button than a real spell, and I've seen people treat it as too cheap of a trick to take it or just feel they deserve it for surviving 17 levels of being a caster. Either way, you won't see it in regular play, unless you're like my group and play 1 out of 3 of your games at high levels (additionally to having long-term campains going on, were you actually do get there).

There is a variant rule about flanking, but it's not considered default, unless your DM specifically says so.

The (quite literally)direct approach would be Reckless Attack with a Barbarian (Bear Totem for lesser consequences). Combine with a Two-Weapon Fighter of at least 11th level to attack 6 times per turn with advantage... 12 if you use your action surge too. Add 2-3 Warlock Levels for a flavorfull AoA and Hex for when you're out of rages (and also because I love Warlocks), and you got yourself a nightmare Incarnate.

There are probably some other strategies, but I feel I gave enough contribution in this thread for one post, so I'll stop here :)