OOTS #422 - The Discussion Thread

[The Giant]

New comic is up.

[Daracaex]

God comic! I've heard of double length, but double wide?

And Xykon just got told!

[Rinion]

Woot! New comic! Now in widescreen.

[Fus.Weapon 1337]

"...you whiny, crybaby sack of undead crap..."

Classic.

[HomerHT]

Awesome freakin' comic! GO REDCLOAK! Show that bag of bones who the Crimson Mantle is :D

[S.ilver]

Wow, impressive splash page Giant.

Nice showing of a spine by Redcloak too :P

[13_CBS]

I think this calls for a certain link:

xykon.justgotowned.com

[Tricycle_Knight]

GO REDCLOAK!:redcloak:

[Alex Kidd]

Is it wierd how everyone of the bad guys is so sympathetic in this one.

Anyway, go get em Redcloak!

[Dolash]

Holy baloney! I mean really! Redcloak's becoming the bigger villain than Xykon all of a sudden!

[Darkspear]

:xykon: shouldn't put up with :redcloak:'s flack! He's the main bad guy!

But this is getting very, very interesting (even more than usual).

[Behold_the_Void]

Interesting, I like the two page layout although it is a bit hard to read.

Minor nitpick: "regenerate" is missing an "r" in the bottom left panel of the left page.

[AtomicKitKat]

"Egenerates" bottom left panel.

[BardicLasher]

That last panel is the single most sympathetic thing Redcloak's ever said, that whispered phrase...

I'm not rooting for him.

[The Anti Hero]

Holy Crap! I feel like this is The Lord Of The Rings all over again, except cooler. Damn.

P.S. What about the undead dragon? I didn't see it in the big picture, but I know its going to play somekind of a part in the battle. And another thing, what the hell is Redcloak up to? I think that Xykon's going to sacrifice himself to take down the wall, or maybe Redcloaks got Xykon in a catapult or something. IDK, I can't wait to find out though.

[Porthos]

When the heck did A) Redcloak grow a pair and B) Xykon become so dismissive? :smalleek:

The Redcloak thing I could see... But Xykon??? :smalleek: :smallconfused:

BTW: Awsome new never-before-seen-online layout style for the strip!

[Jamie Fameflame]

Brilliant!!

"Infernal Hippie!" :smallbiggrin:

[Tilian]

I'm so confused!

I really wasn't expecting quite that big a turnaround in the relationship. Wow. And how about that last panel?

The Redcloak speculators are going to go nuts.

Looks like the Order has a more high-risk mission on their hands than I thought too...


Cry Havoc!

And that's a Xykon-ish decoy if ever I saw one. OotS will so bite on this bait

Gah, of course!

[Deuce]

Cry Havoc!

And that's a Xykon-ish decoy if ever I saw one. OotS will so bite on this bait

[Nightmarenny]

Oh my god. I hope your all being sarcastic. That ain't Xycon folks. he's a duplicate being used as a bullseye drawing the high level order away from main combat.

[farraday]

Hmmm


Okay there's no way that's Xykon.

Take a skeleton put him in a robe and you've got your big target for them to go after.

[Siberys]

:xykon: shouldn't put up with :redcloak:'s flack! He's the main bad guy!

But this is getting very, very interesting (even more than usual).

No, I think we've all been led on - :redcloak:'s been the real mastermind the whole time, with :xykon: as a decoy/pawn - whether willingly or unwillingly, I don't Know.

[MReav]

So, what the hell just happened*?

*Re: Redcloak and Xykon.

[The Wanderer]

I HIGHLY doubt that was really Xykon, but either way it was hilarious! Go Redcloak!

[The Extinguisher]

Obviously.

Theres a difference between this Xykon and the regular Xykon. It's a fake

[Shott]

Wow, owned. Even if it was a doppleganger. And I have a feeling its Redcloak's turn for some plot development. Wow, I don't even know who to root for. :)

[DomaDoma]

So Redcloak would be aiming for the throne room, then. No idea why I didn't expect that, but anyway, holy crap.

[JT]

Certainly glad I have a widescreen monitor. :)
Great strip ... er ... swath ... um ... yeah, whatever.

Well, it's clear and obvious what Redcloak's plan is/was.
I wonder if Xykon's actually naked as a skeleton?

[Gyron]

Redcloak has a history with the high and mighty, stick-in-arses Sapphire paladins. Though you could guess from his indignant speech to Miko.

[Paramajic]

The "widescreen" format for the approach is fantastic. A little odd about :xykon: and :redcloak:, it's almost as if they had switched bodies.
Oh well.....

GET READY TO RUMBLE!

[Eldritch Knight]

Holy!!!! That is just sweet. I Love the panoramic view, and the motivation behind Redcloak.

[Sky_Schemer]

Best. Layout. Ever.

[Porthos]

he's a duplicate being used as a bullseye drawing the high level order away from main combat.

Hmmm.... That is the only speculation that makes any sense, doesn't it?

I wonder if it is a Illusion, Clone, Or Something Else

[Druid]

So what, is Red Cloak the actualy leader? As surprising as that would be, it wouldn't make much sense.

[The Anti Hero]

****, I just realized something. Xykons got a necklace on that wasn't there before... Hmmm... What's that all about?

[Turcano]

Holy sideways-scrolling action, Batman!

Oh, and familial vengeance.

[Tyrmadris]

Yeah, it's not really Xykon there, but... damn, for a minute there, I had thought Redcloak grew the biggest pair ever to grace a stick comic.

I always thought Redcloak was rather charmingly amusing (in the "you may have more Intelligence than me as a Lich, but guess who owns the Wisdom department" sort of way), but this one I have to agree is his finest moment.

Love how the hobgobbos are all marching along talking about it as if it was a walk in the park, along with the zombie shuffling in the same direction muttering Brains.... you go, zombie! It's clear that no one around you can sate your hunger, that's for sure. ;)

Infernal hippies? I'm not so sure that would change a cockroaches worldview that much.

[shaddy_24]

HOLY CRAP! Redcloak just told Xykon off! Even if it was a fake Xykon, that was an awsome sight.
Also, Redcloak is coming into his own as a character. "This one's for you mom." Who wants to bet his mom wore the crimson mantle before him. He already said that they were killed by the paladins. If it was his mother that would give him even more incentive to take them out. I like where this is going.

[ShneekeyTheLost]

Okay, so the hobgoblins have a serious Morale advantage over the humans, as well as a numerical advantage. Using siege weapons to counter the walls.

Redcloak actually growing a spine? Wewt!

The party may be going after the wrong critter though. They're focusing on Xylon and not on Redcloak, who has a LOT more invested in this and is the main strategic general for the whole campaign. While Xylon is indeed a force to be reckoned with, Redcloak may ultimately be the more dangerous foe. Plus if you kill Redcloak and destroy his pendant, you bag Xylon in the process.

[DomaDoma]

No, that was definitely Redcloak - he's the one with the grudge against the Sapphire Guard. But no, I don't think it's Xykon either.

[Glarx]

Meh. If I were Xykon, and God do I wish for that, I would use whatever high-powered spell I had in my disposal to slay Redcloak. And then, after that, rent a movie under his name and NEVER RETURN IT! Fwuhahahahaha! The overdue fees would make Redcloak think twice about accepting that resurrect!

[Porthos]

****, I just realized something. Xykons got a necklace on that wasn't there before... Hmmm... What's that all about?

Something that provides a Permenant Illusion, maybe? Or something that disguises the voice, ala V?

[Thanatos]

Some version of Magic Jar, perhaps... http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/magicJar.htm

[Porthos]

Some version of Magic Jar, perhaps... http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/magicJar.htm

Now that is an interesting speculation there.

10/10 for a great guess!! :smallbiggrin:

[Hallavast]

You Fools! In the words of Admiral Ackbar, "it's a trap!"
The exchange between the archvillains is all for show. Don't be taken in by this Giant/kobold's antics.

Edit: and btw, Nice comic Giant. You sly devil you.

[Kyace]

Not much of a guess, but...
I wonder if :xykon: is loaded onto a catapult.
I wouldn't understand the point, but it would be rather funny.

[SteveMB]

So, what the hell just happened*?

*Re: Redcloak and Xykon.
I'm guessing that if that's the real Xykon, I'm the King of Spain.

[Bluefin]

This comic is great, I loved the symmetry between the two sides, right down to panel size and characters per panel. Woo, let's get it on.

[Nazzo, the 102nd]

I don't really know if that's the real Xykon or not, but I can see that he's wearing a new thing, that orange necklace.

Dun dun DUNNNN! :smallbiggrin:

Edit: Aw. Ninja'd.

[Wikkin]

Oh the anticipation. Way to grow a pair, Redcloak!

[mikeejimbo]

Beautiful! Yay for parallelism! Yay for Redcloak!

[TheSultan]

Redcloak is the best. Rock on, Giant.

[Lizard Lord]

When the heck did A) Redcloak grow a pair and B) Xykon become so dismissive? :smalleek:

The Redcloak thing I could see... But Xykon??? :smalleek: :smallconfused:


Xykon suddenly decided to repect his minnion's plan when the guy in charge of his phlactory(sp?)(you know the key to his imortality) decided to assert himself.

[Erimore]

Awesome!

And do I detect a centerfold in this one? *lol* That would be SO COOL!

Great job....I love the opposing views too. :)

Peace.

[Shadic]

Wow, if that was the real Xykon, and not just a dummy, Redcloak is very badass right about now.

What IS this plan of his, anyways?

[Mr._Wilson]

Very interesting. I loved the layout of the strip as well. And, I wonder if part of Redcloak's plan was to have Xykon act subserviant for troop morale?

[Nightmarenny]

I don't really know if that's the real Xykon or not, but I can see that he's wearing a new thing, that orange necklace.

Dun dun DUNNNN! :smallbiggrin:
What? Two characters acting conpletly out of character, a change in the balance of power isn't enough to convince you something is off? I hope the Giant resolves this fast or it will become the next CG Belkar.

[Porthos]

Xykon suddenly decided to repect his minnion's plan when the guy in charge of his phlactory(sp?)(you know the key to his imortality) decided to assert himself.

Actually, that was just my spur-of-the-moment thoughts. Upon reflection, I'm now firmly set in the This Is Not The Jedi Xykon You Are Looking For Camp. :smallsmile:

I blame the fact that I'm fairly exahusted right now, and therefore I got a heavy negative modifier to my Sense Motive (Comic) check. :smallwink:

[Professor Tanhauser]

*Sniff* I just realized that every NPC I ever killed had a mother. Just like poor redcloak. *sniff*.

[Nightmarenny]

Wow, if that was the real Xykon, and not just a dummy, Redcloak is very badass right about now.

What IS this plan of his, anyways?
This isn't brain surgury.

Fake Xycon(There should be no doubt about this) is the Bullseye. All the high level characters flock to him while the real Xycon takes the gate.

[rosebud]

I thought lich meant never having to say you're sorry. :smallsmile: So the previous comments make sense.

As for the rest, I like the double wide, but I don't understand why there's no Gods getting involved.

[Amotis]

brains. cool comic. let's get to the action.

[the_tick_rules]

Redcloak is a man now!!!

[Pax_Chi]

At this point, I could see that being either the real Xykon or another skeleton dressed up to act like him, though to my knowledge normal skeletons don't have the brains to pull that off.

Redcloak has been getting more and more of a spine as the series has progressed, and remember, technically it is him that rules the Hobgoblins, not Xykon. In fact, Redcloak has really done most of the planning since acquiring the army. It was him that decided to attack the city and the current battle strategy is based almost entirely off of his ideas. Given all the Redcloak speculation, he could finally be revealed as the master villain.

[Alsadius]

Freakin' sweet. I wish my resolution was a tad wider so I could encompass it all, but I guess I'll live with a mere 95% awesome by width. That said, fix the typo in "egenerates" - bottom left panel.

[Nightmarenny]

At this point, I could see that being either the real Xykon or another skeleton dressed up to act like him, though to my knowledge normal skeletons don't have the brains to pull that off.

Redcloak has been getting more and more of a spine as the series has progressed, and remember, technically it is him that rules the Hobgoblins, not Xykon. In fact, Redcloak has really done most of the planning since acquiring the army. It was him that decided to attack the city and the current battle strategy is based almost entirely off of his ideas. Given all the Redcloak speculation, he could finally be revealed as the master villain.
No. This can't be the real Xycon. You see when a character changes completly from one side of the spectrum to the other its to be presumed that something is a miss.

[Haruki-kun]

YAY, DOUBLE WIDTH!!!!!!
I have newfound respect for Redcloak.

[Nazzo, the 102nd]

What? Two characters acting conpletly out of character, a change in the balance of power isn't enough to convince you something is off?

Sincerely? No.

We don't know what they talked in between that comics. They may have discussed strategy. Redcloak clearly had a plan, and more reasons to ground-level Azure City than anyone in that army. Also, "Xykon" is talking with Xykon's voice (the black balloon).

The theory of the bullseye is really interesting, but it's still a theory.

I may be utterly wrong here, but I will not say that that's not Xykon. But I will not say the opposite either. I just... don't know. :smalltongue: It's odd, but it's not certain.

[AznEclipse]

An awesome strip. I wasn't sure how to read it (i just read it left to right all the way down), but I guess it doesn't really matter.

Hinjo's last words with O-Chul are amazing. Rich is an awesome writer.

[Pryodex]

While I have a feeling this is reading entirely too far into everything, Ill like to just point out the differences in comic #148, #300, and the most recent ones, directing your attention to Redcloaks amulet. Just more speculation. Time will tell if Im just making connections that shouldnt be make.

[DrowWolfrider]

That wispered phrase at the end acctually got me thinking, is it justified to go arround killing sentent monsters in the way the Saphire Guard does, or hell any adventuring party? And what happened to Xykon, I mean what happened to his spine, I think Redcloak has a really good but really disasterous if it fails kind of plan, kind of like one of Nales plans if any were good.

[Hawkeye]

First of all, sweet comic...the battle of sheer awesomeness is just getting closer.

Second, I won't put in a spoiler what umpteenth people have put before because of the glaring obviousness of it all.

Thirdly, and perhaps most pondering...would V's "Protection from arrows" spell protect them from catapult fire?

[Pvednes]

Holy crap!

That was awesome. Go Redcloak!!

[Nazzo, the 102nd]

While I have a feeling this is reading entirely too far into everything, Ill like to just point out the differences in comic #148, #300, and the most recent ones, directing your attention to Redcloaks amulet. Just more speculation. Time will tell if Im just making connections that shouldnt be make.

That... is one cool thing you noted, Pryodex.

I have to admit that the odds of that skeleton containing the real Xykon's soul are pretty low... :smallsmile:

[farraday]

We don't know what they talked in between that comics. They may have discussed strategy. Redcloak clearly had a plan, and more reasons to ground-level Azure City than anyone in that army. Also, "Xykon" is talking with Xykon's voice (the black balloon).


Except that exact same scheme is used for the zombies "brains" war cry earlier, so obviously it's not unique to Xykon.

[Alysar]

"Xykon's" new necklace is casting an illusion spell. My bet is that it's one of the Hobgoblin redshirts.

[Nightmarenny]

Sincerely? No.

We don't know what they talked in between that comics. They may have discussed strategy. Redcloak clearly had a plan, and more reasons to ground-level Azure City than anyone in that army. Also, "Xykon" is talking with Xykon's voice (the black balloon).

The theory of the bullseye is really interesting, but it's still a theory.

I may be utterly wrong here, but I will not say that that's not Xykon. But I will not say the opposite either. I just... don't know. :smalltongue: It's odd, but it's not certain.
No, that not how writing comics works. When something changes the characters in a huge way you don't skip over it. That anyone questions this is infuriating. Oh he's talking in Xykons bubble? OH my that certainly negates the fact that if thats really Xykon than nothing that just happened makes any sense.
I can't believe the pain's giant goes to hint this. He freaking hits you over the head with it. Yet everyone misses it. My god.

[Thortok2000]

I'm not sure what order I'm supposed to read the panels in, it stretches my screen off to the side, and 'egenerates' should have an R in front of it, but it's still great storytelling, loving the plot progression!

[Ted_Stryker]

I'm in the "it's a fake Xykon" camp. The fake Xykon has big, round eye sockets. The real Xykon has narrower eye sockets with points at the outer ends.

[Kresalak]

I'm guessing that if that's the real Xykon, I'm the King of Spain.
Hail, majesty!

"Brains" was totally the best line of the comic.

[Alysar]

That wispered phrase at the end acctually got me thinking, is it justified to go arround killing sentent monsters in the way the Saphire Guard does, or hell any adventuring party?

:belkar: "Well I just figured we'd wander around, kill some sentient creatures because they had green skin and fangs and we don't, and then take their stuff."

[Winterking]

Love the widescreen format!

Boo enormous evil undead hordes...
Hooray Goblinoid Vengeance!

[Nightmarenny]

I'm not sure what order I'm supposed to read the panels in, it stretches my screen off to the side, and 'egenerates' should have an R in front of it, but it's still great storytelling, loving the plot progression!
You could read it one comic at a time or all the way from left to right, it doesn't really matter.

[Pvednes]

I mean look at that morale difference between the two armies.

Go Team Evil! Now under new management!

[Tharr]

Great edcloak got pair by egenation them back.

[Ampersand]

My favorite part of this comic was really the second panel on each side. Seeing the breaking morale of the Azure City defenders (speculating on Shojo's death and Hinjo's rise to power) contrated with the cocky hobgoblins was gold.

[Haruspex]

Hope the actual battle starts soon. Can't wait to see how the oddities resolve.
Cunning devious plan from Xykon's camp?
Will the MitD finally reveal itself?
Prison break during the battle?

I can't wait!

[Mr Teufel]

I'm in the "it's a fake Xykon" camp. The fake Xykon has big, round eye sockets. The real Xykon has narrower eye sockets with points at the outer ends.

That's Xykon's usual expression, but in frame 6 of #416 Xykon's eyes widen to be round.

Having said that, I'm in the "Xykon's a fake" camp. Probably an illusion from his nifty new necklace.

I didn't work it out myself, tho. I just made sure I read all this thread, and accepted the logic of it.

[Alysar]

I'm in the "it's a fake Xykon" camp. The fake Xykon has big, round eye sockets. The real Xykon has narrower eye sockets with points at the outer ends.

That depends entirely on what facial expression Xykon has at the moment. Look at the second to last panel of #95 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0095.html). He normally has the pointy eyes because he's always kind of pissed.

That does not alter the fact that it's not the real Xykon.

As I mentioned in an earlier post, it's a Hobgoblin peon. The necklace he's wearing is new. It's casting an illusion spell on him

Edit: Well crap. Mr Teufel said you can see Xykon's round eyes in 416. I didn't have to go searching through the archives after all. I knew I had seen them round recently.

[Rhuna_Coppermane]

1) That ain't Xykon.

2) I can see where telling him off would have been all sorts of fun anyway.

[Neofite]

Great comic!!!

Man, I thought he would blast Redcloak into dust!!! Props to Redcloak for his stand!!

[Haruspex]

No, that not how writing comics works. When something changes the characters in a huge way you don't skip over it. That anyone questions this is infuriating. Oh he's talking in Xykons bubble? OH my that certainly negates the fact that if thats really Xykon than nothing that just happened makes any sense.
I can't believe the pain's giant goes to hint this. He freaking hits you over the head with it. Yet everyone misses it. My god.

You know, pointing out this "how writing comics works" theory probably means that the Giant will do something else entirely. e.g. Miko's blackguard theory.

[Senko]

Is it just me or does that look like the shiny gold amulet of supreme leadership in 149?

[timbot]

There are only three possibilities:

• Redcloak just got REALLY brave
• Redcloak and Xykon switched entities
• That thing is just some character designed to look like - WAIT!
MiTD is something really powerful that LOOKS like Xykon! That would explain his behavior toward Redcloak, and Xykon would obviously PRETEND to be confused and dumb. Dun Dun Dun! (I still like my idea that MiTD is part of the Snarl, but that could still work since perhaps the MiTD can shape-shift, or that necklace shape-shifts the wearer.)

[SupraGuy]

Y'know, I always suspected that there was more to :redcloak: than being :xykon:'s lackey.

Oh, and I know that I'm far from typo free, but Rich, you might want to fix the little typo about when Xykon 'egernerates'.

Double width is harder to deal with on the 'net, but obviously works better in book format. S'alright this way, too.

[Jamie Fameflame]

Am I the only one guessing...


Death of O-Chul is approaching swiftly? He said he was going to defend Soon's Gate... I'm guessing that's the rock in the throne room, right? Or is it just a city gate??? Argh, it seemed such a plausible theory... :smallannoyed:

[Nightmarenny]

You know, pointing out this "how writing comics works" theory probably means that the Giant will do something else entirely. e.g. Miko's blackguard theory.
No that was completly different . I'll put it differently.

Changing a character completly "off-camera" is crappy story-telling.

[Eaquae Legit]

I've been lurking for months. This comic finally made me register so I can splutter a bit.

$@&#^^@%$ SUSPENSE!

Why isn't it Wednesday yet?

[Tyrael]

I'm in the "it's a fake Xykon" camp. The fake Xykon has big, round eye sockets. The real Xykon has narrower eye sockets with points at the outer ends.

El-wrong-o. Xykon uses that facial expression sometimes.

Refer to:


http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0193.html
http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0371.html
http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0376.html
http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0416.html

[Haruspex]

No that was completly different . I'll put it differently.

Changing a character completly "off-camera" is crappy story-telling.

Fair enough. The exact nature of this character change probably won't be what people think, if previous events are anything to go by.

[Aerysil]

This is gonna be good.

[mycophage]

Um...has someone gotten "magic jarred"?

[Mystitat]

My first impression was that Xykon and Redcloak had switched bodies. But looking at the specific speech of "Xykon" in this comic, it doesn't sound like something the Redcloak of the last few comics would have said (considering his comments about having a plan and bullseyes and all).

Thus, I plant myself firmly in the it's-a-redshirt-goblin-spelled-to-look-like-Xykon. That would also explain the "surprisingly therapeutic" line. ^_^

[StickArc]

It could be Xycon, it could be a fake for the OOTS to target. The latter theory makes sense, in that Redcloak's idea involves a giant bull's eye on Xycon. And Xycon does seem to have less kohones than usual. Or redcloak grew some. Either way, same thing.

However, there's just two things that bug me about that theory. Redcloak retorts "Yes, for the billionth time, I'm certain". I doubt even Redcloak would create a fake Xycon that would ask him about this plan a billion times.

Also, Xycon states that "Its... uh... its just that this plan doesn't really seem condusive to my long-term well-". He speaks as if he was Xycon, and its only him, Redcloak, and the coolest hidden bad guy ever. No reason to conceal his identity.

Its a true neutral situation. It can go both ways.

Edit: Also, redcloak is on uber-revenge mode. He's fighting for his mom against his most hated enemies. Xycon probably seemed intimidated because Redcloak has so much passion for killing the paladins.

I'm sort of hoping he gets a semi-happy ending. Redcloak's cool.

[Bunny]

Giant, I loved the panoramic perspective in the top panels! Wow, that was fun to look at!

I also enoyed O-chul's "We'll share a drink" comment. I've always liked O-chul for some reason, and that farewell made me like him even more. Cheers, O-chul!

[Edit: I think I like O-chul so much because he is willing to undertake the lousy, unglamorous jobs that must be done and no-one else will do. Like cleaning out the litterbox.]

And finally, I really dug Redcloak's whispered "This one's for you, Mom". Can't wait to learn more about that comment.

:redcloak:
Bunny
(Who also loves his Mommy)

[dragongirl13]

And now I have to wait until Wednesday to see the next comic...

Redcloak seems to have some grudge against Azure City... I wonder what the "this one's for you, mom" stuff was all about. Was his mom killed by paladins?

Ooooo, Xykon just got PWND!

[Alysar]

There are only three possibilities:

• Redcloak just got REALLY brave
• Redcloak and Xykon switched entities
• That thing is just some character designed to look like - WAIT!
MiTD is something really powerful that LOOKS like Xykon! That would explain his behavior toward Redcloak, and Xykon would obviously PRETEND to be confused and dumb. Dun Dun Dun! (I still like my idea that MiTD is part of the Snarl, but that could still work since perhaps the MiTD can shape-shift, or that necklace shape-shifts the wearer.)

Text is in white - highlight to see.


How do you explain the fact that we see MITD and whatever it is that looks like Xykon in the same panel?

By the way, spoilers are done like this

[spoiler]spoiler text[/spoiler]

[dragoncmd]

wtf just happened?!?! Either thats not xycon, thats not redcloak, or redcloak grew some balls, I I hope its not the latter.

[joehein]

anyone get that sudden crap hit the fan feeling? i can only imagine something like the linear guild coming back and somehow completely destroying all. or it could be something silly like a giant foot coming from the sky and squishing all of xykons army. there are so many characters that just kind off feel off the map that it could go anywhere but i'm almost certain there's not going to be a clear winner between the two.

[Jade_Tarem]

"This doesn't really seem conductive to my long term, well -"

-health." :smalltongue:

[The Wanderer]

And now I have to wait until Wednesday to see the next comic...

Redcloak seems to have some grudge against Azure City... I wonder what the "this one's for you, mom" stuff was all about. Was his mom killed by paladins?

Ooooo, Xykon just got PWND!

Saving this snippet of comic 277 has really paid off.

This is from when Shojo was telling the OoTS about the nature of the Gates and the formations of the Sapphire Guard (http://x1b.xanga.com/dc6d342703730108062392/w76629008.jpg)

Note the color of the cloak of the goblin being beheaded, and the Redcloak listed his mentor as one of the people he lost to the crusades of the paladins here in comic 371 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0371.html).

[Alysar]

wtf just happened?!?! Either thats not xycon, thats not redcloak, or redcloak grew some balls, I I hope its not the latter.

It's not Xykon. Read the thread.

[Alysar]

Saving this snippet of comic 277 has really paid off.

This is from when Shojo was telling the OoTS about the nature of the Gates and the formations of the Sapphire Guard (http://x1b.xanga.com/dc6d342703730108062392/w76629008.jpg)

Note the color of the cloak of the goblin being beheaded

Yeah. Purple. Possibly a rival sect? :smalltongue:

[KeiranHalcyon]

Ok, so, my thoughts on the Xykon/Not Xykon debate:

Yes, completely out of character for Xykon - and the interrupted concern for it's "long-term well-[being]" confirms that it is a decoy - but if it was a hobgoblin, why would Redcloak threaten it with rebuking? It was said too seriously for it to be a jab at the speculated illusion. It could be a simulacrum of lesser level than Redcloak, which would give it reason to fear him. Yes, I think I'll go with simulacrum. The extra amulet, I can't explain.

Also, to add to the amulets point, I notice that somewhere between strips 376 and 414 the center of Redcloak's amulet has gone from black to white. Let's wait and see if this means anything....

[Nightmarenny]

It could be Xycon, it could be a fake for the OOTS to target. The latter theory makes sense, in that Redcloak's idea involves a giant bull's eye on Xycon. And Xycon does seem to have less kohones than usual. Or redcloak grew some. Either way, same thing.

However, there's just two things that bug me about that theory. Redcloak retorts "Yes, for the billionth time, I'm certain". I doubt even Redcloak would create a fake Xycon that would ask him about this plan a billion times.

Also, Xycon states that "Its... uh... its just that this plan doesn't really seem condusive to my long-term well-". He speaks as if he was Xycon, and its only him, Redcloak, and the coolest hidden bad guy ever. No reason to conceal his identity.

Its a true neutral situation. It can go both ways.
No it could not be Xykon.
1.Who said he created something? There are about a billion ways to create a fake Xykon from tieing together a skeleton, to taking a Skeleton(monster) and putting him in ropes, to Illusioning a Goblins. You call that proof? Something that sorta disproves one way to make a fake Xykon?
2.A Goblin and many other creatures would fear for their life if they were made a bullseye. Xykon? Never. He's the freaking Demi-god. He is epic level and he could crush Azure city himself with a few days. Xykon has never ever feared for his life and certainly doesn't fear Red Cloak as he is much to high a level to be rebuked.

[Scott Haley]

Would a hippie roach smoke with a "human clip?"

[Alysar]

Also, to add to the amulets point, I notice that somewhere between strips 376 and 414 the center of Redcloak's amulet has gone from black to white. Let's wait and see if this means anything....

Whoa. I never noticed that. (Ok, I don't notice 90% of the little details that Rich puts into the comics). That has got to mean something.

[Maerad of Pellinor]

Wow!

Looks like someone on Xykon's side didn't role a natural one on his "Inspire big army" check.... :p

It would be great if "Xykon" is actually the MitD and the real Xykon is standing under the umbrella right now....

Oh, and I like the new layout!

[Trevalyan]

The comic has been made of unadulterated win since Elan broke out of prison. And it's never really been bad. :D

As for Xykon:
He's fundamentally a bully. It's easy to pick on people when they aren't as strong as you, or when you have the advantage over them. The tables have turned since our villains were last in Dorukan's Fortress, and Xykon very firmly needs Redcloak to have a hope in heck of winning this. Redcloak's fiery passion, combined with his tactical skill and obvious spellcasting power, have just been reinforced by confidence. Put bluntly, Xykon may have just blinked. Unless it IS a decoy, things aren't going back to normal after a battle like this.

[Nightmarenny]

Wow!

Looks like someone on Xykon's side didn't role a natural one on his "Inspire big army" check.... :p

It would be great if "Xykon" is actually the MitD and the real Xykon is standing under the umbrella right now....

Oh, and I like the new layout!
Natural 1's arn't instant fails. That is all.

[Halrin]

I actually think thats probably the real Xykon. His response to me seems like a lazy teenager when he realizes he has a test today and he hasn't studied. He slacked off from planning the attack so now Redcloak has things under control and Xykon is left playing catch-up hence being more startled/worried/confused instead of being irked at Redcloaks jabs.

Clearly the necklace is something important, and if it isn't actually Xykon then its probably granting an illusion. If it is Xykon I would suggest it holds some kind of power that will aid in distracting a large portion of the defenders, perhaps even an item to aid him in raising fallen Azure soldiers as undead.

My prediction at this point is that Azure is lost, the morale problems alone seem to ensure this. I would also not be surprised at all if O-Chulls words rang true in that important characters, perhaps even members of the order (Durkon?) are going to die in the comming conflict. Even if Azure city beats back the hobgoblins, I think Xykon and/or Redcloak will destroy or remove the sapphire from the throne and the snarls rift will begin widening.

After the battle is over I can see the Order searching for a means to re-seal the gate, perhaps seeking out more of Dorukan's lore, or even trying to find Lirian.

Anyways, I'm probably 100% wrong, but my thoughts right now is that even if Azure city wins, they will lose. Either the hobgoblins overrun the city, or they are repulsed but the snarls rift is opened and begins to grow and destroyt the castle and surrounding city.

[StickArc]

No it could not be Xykon.
1.Who said he created something? There are about a billion ways to create a fake Xykon from tieing together a skeleton, to taking a Skeleton(monster) and putting him in ropes, to Illusioning a Goblins. You call that proof? Something that sorta disproves one way to make a fake Xykon?
2.A Goblin and many other creatures would fear for their life if they were made a bullseye. Xykon? Never. He's the freaking Demi-god. He is epic level and he could crush Azure city himself with a few days. Xykon has never ever feared for his life and certainly doesn't fear Red Cloak as he is much to high a level to be rebuked.

You have a point, but for argument's sake, let me respond.

1. By "create", I mean, summon, assemble, order from amazon.com, etc. I don't necessarily, litterallyy mean to create a psuedo-xycon. You're kinda vauge though, I think you missed my point. It may not be Xycon at all. I'm only offering a contradictive reason just to make you think about it.

2. Yeah... you're kinda proving my point there. Xycon wouldn't fear being targetted by the OOTS like a giant bulls-eye. As you said, he's the freaking demi-god. He doesn't necessarily mean to imply he fears Redcloak, just that he may realize arguing with Redcloak on revenge mode may not be the best tactical descision.

Yeah, it could be a false Xycon. But don't rule out the possibility Redcloak may actually just be planning to stick Xycon in the middle of the fray, and go for the gate himself.

[Nightmarenny]

The comic has been made of unadulterated win since Elan broke out of prison. And it's never really been bad. :D

As for Xykon:
He's fundamentally a bully. It's easy to pick on people when they aren't as strong as you, or when you have the advantage over them. The tables have turned since our villains were last in Dorukan's Fortress, and Xykon very firmly needs Redcloak to have a hope in heck of winning this. Redcloak's fiery passion, combined with his tactical skill and obvious spellcasting power, have just been reinforced by confidence. Put bluntly, Xykon may have just blinked. Unless it IS a decoy, things aren't going back to normal after a battle like this.
Uh no. Am I suddenly the only one that remembers that we've seen both character fight and know the strength difference? Xykon out-classes RC easily and being epic doesn't really need an army. It just makes the job easier.

[CervantesTheDefenestrator]

This comic has re-affirmed a few half-formed suspicions I have had about Redcloak for a while, starting when he and Miko had a little chat. I believe one of two things will happen, maybe both. But first I must explain a little bit
more about our green friend, and how his mind works.

Redcloak is a very interesting person. It is apparant that he lost his mother at a rather young age to the paladins, whether or not she was evil or not is immaterial, he obviously loved her, and that is all that matters. In fact, I would be very surprised if she was evil, I don't know if any of you have ever read the webcomic Goblins, but I think it represents Redcloak's point of view very well. I also highly doubt that he views himself as evil, evil people rarely do. If he was evil, I also doubt that he is wholly and irredemably evil, such things rarely exist. He sees the paladins as blind fools who use their so-called holyness to destroy those who they label as 'evil' without a second thought, and he is partly right, as evidenced by Miko. Now we know that not all paladins are like that, but he doesn't. Very likely he sees the destruction of the paladins as good and just, or perhaps he is just after revenge.

1) Redcloak will be the new big boss bad guy.
Sorry to all you Xykon fans, but he is just too stereotypical a villain. Yes, I am aware that this is mainly a humor webcomic and that Rich draws a lot of funny materials from fantasy stereotypes. But there is a very serious underlying story, and Xykon does not fit well into it. He is not a very deep person, just a lich sorcerer who is evil because it is fun and is trying to find a way to seek ultimate power through tampering with the stability of reality.
Yawn. Which means that everyone wants him dead (um, deader) and no one would object to his destruction. Redcloak on the other hand, can be sympethized with. Most of us will agree that if someone you loved was killed, you would be right to want retribution for the ones who did it. We cannot fault him for that, only perhaps his methods. This creates an interesting situation. I have no doubt that the Order of the Stick will soon know all of Redcloak's past, and his reasons for wanting to destroy the paladins. I think that this may cause a dilemma. The Order may not want to kill him. Stop him from destroying innocent people of course, but I think that a few of them may not want to kill him unless he gives them no other choice.
He joined up with Xycon to gain power, or to have something to do while he gathered it. But there is a major difference between our goblin and Xykon. Redcloak seeks power, not for power's sake as Xycon does, but to right a wrong, or for vengeance. That makes for a far more interesting villain than a lich.

2)He will join up with the Order.
For any one or more of several reasons. Destroy Xycon, destroy the Blackguard Miko, stop the Snarl from getting out, destroy the corrupt paladins. Take your pick. Now that doesn't have to mean that they like each other, or get along well. Probably will be an alliance of neccesity, to accomplish a mutual goal.

Whatever happens, I look forward to events invloving our crimson mantled friend with great anticipation. I beleive that he will become one of my favorite characters in the comic.

[NovaNightmare]

Go :redcloak:

Oh! And the :roach: s are awesome!

Why is my deception sense tingling so...

Gawwww! Suspense! (Falls over and hits head on floor, crushing hat)

[timbot]

revision of above theory:

Xykon's necklace is a life entity switcher, and now the real Xykon is as powerful as the MiTD, and the MiTD posing as Xykon has taken a back seat to Redcloak. Now Xykon will be able to defeat everything in his sight, and will get to the gate. Perhaps this is the end of the mystery of MiTD, although Rich always looks like he's in a corner and manages to keep the secret. Although, there have been a lot of lon-running plot lines being sewn up lately...

[Nightmarenny]

You have a point, but for argument's sake, let me respond.

1. By "create", I mean, summon, assemble, order from amazon.com, etc. I don't necessarily, litterallyy mean to create a psuedo-xycon. You're kinda vauge though, I think you missed my point. It may not be Xycon at all. I'm only offering a contradictive reason just to make you think about it.

2. Yeah... you're kinda proving my point there. Xycon wouldn't fear being targetted by the OOTS like a giant bulls-eye. As you said, he's the freaking demi-god. He doesn't necessarily mean to imply he fears Redcloak, just that he may realize arguing with Redcloak on revenge mode may not be the best tactical descision.

Yeah, it could be a false Xycon. But don't rule out the possibility Redcloak may actually just be planning to stick Xycon in the middle of the fray, and go for the gate himself.
Uh no on "2" I was pointing out why Xykon wouldn't fear for his well being. No matter what the plan Xykon wouldn't be afraid. And if a plan was formulated that offered to much personal risk in his opinion R.C. would be back to the drawing board because in a battle between the two, R.C. is outmatched and knows it.

[Balathustrius]

I just had to add my $.02.

Fake Xykon? Um, I seriously doubt it. The MitD is even surprised, and he's just about always nearby Xykon - he'd know if there'd been a switch.

Redcloak has been dreaming of this for most of his life, and he's not about to let this lich, who is basically dependent on him, after all, stand in his way.

Redcloak just got much more interesting.

[StickArc]

Uh no on "2" I was pointing out why Xykon wouldn't fear for his well being. No matter what the plan Xykon wouldn't be afraid. And if a plan was formulated that offered to much personal risk in his opinion R.C. would be back to the drawing board because in a battle between the two, R.C. is outmatched and knows it.

Who said Xycon fears for his well-being? Mabye he worries that his plan is at risk. And he probably feels that its too much hassle to hassle Redcloak about it. Redcloak is the tactical superior of Xycon, and Xycon knows it. Xycon DOES need Redcloak to win this.

[Mr.Burn]

At 1st I was "whow, Redcloack is gona get a beating." But now when I think about it, redcloack always was a bigger villan than Xykon, where Xykon sees only amusmante in harming others, Redcloack actually has a hidden goal: revange, and nothing can turn a guy more sinister and bloodcraving than revange.

[Artega]

Yay for spewing theory!

When you look at it from a certain perspective, why would Xykon be taking that sort of tongue from his trusted lieutenant? Simple. As many have said before-hand, its a double meant to look like Xykon.

Now, being in the position of a nameless solider who's sole intent is to draw fire from several higher level characters, I would not be willing to risk my hide that severely. I would be a few rows of troops back, as anyone else who wanted to have a chance of surviving the engagement, or any spellcaster with Wisdom higher than that of an amoeba and wanted plenty of breathing room between him or herself and the target. If the Order does manage to make its way to "Xykon", then it might as well be said that he is as good as dead.

After this point, two things are fairly clear. The ruse should have been found out, and that now the Order would no undoubtedly find itself surrounded by enemies.

Enter The Inverse Ninja Law.

Taken that it is not strictly applied to Ninja alone, would it be a far cry to say that this would be a poor move on Redcloak's part if in fact it is a ruse? The Order would undoubtedly strike down a significant number of soldiers before being forced to retreat. They are not likely to simply keel over and die through sheerly being outnumbered. Many of the characters have shown competent ability in pointing out genre conventions, and as such, seems to put Redcloak at a significant disadvantage in terms of figuring out what a henchmen, when assigned a job, will react. A way of removing will would most likely solve the problem, but it is after all a nameless character with little to no usefulness, that will die namelessly anyway.

[Mystitat]

I just had to add my $.02.

Fake Xykon? Um, I seriously doubt it. The MitD is even surprised, and he's just about always nearby Xykon - he'd know if there'd been a switch.

Redcloak has been dreaming of this for most of his life, and he's not about to let this lich, who is basically dependent on him, after all, stand in his way.

Redcloak just got much more interesting.
The MitD is also the one who keeps going "What gate?"
I have no doubt in Redcloak's abilities to switch Xykons without him noticing.

[Nightmarenny]

Who said Xycon fears for his well-being? Mabye he worries that his plan is at risk. And he probably feels that its too much hassle to hassle Redcloak about it. Redcloak is the tactical superior of Xycon, and Xycon knows it. Xycon DOES need Redcloak to win this.
Um, read the comic, maybe?

"This may be bad for my my well(being)"

That's fear. That guy thinks he may die. Being a low level replacement he's quite right.

[CervantesTheDefenestrator]

I would like to point out two things. That is the real Xykon, and Redcloak did not suddenly "grow a pair". Redcloak has always put up with Xykon for no other reason that he is a means to an end. He is determined to accomplish the goal, driven by his hatred and desire for revenge. Xykon is just in it for kicks, and does not take it, or anything, very seriously. Redcloak has had to humble himself in order to grow more powerful, now that he is powerful, he doesn't really need to take sh!t from the lich anymore. He doesn't need Xykon anymore, just the army. Which I might add, is loyal to him, not Xykon. What you are seeing is not really a new Redcloak, rather the old one come out of hiding again. Xykon is surprised and thrown off balance by this sudden re-amergence. Despite all his magical power, he is in fact a weak minded fool.

[kabbor]

someone noticed that redcloak's necklace now has a white center. what does this mean?

The now white center of Redcloak's necklace is a very important point: when did it last turn white? When Zykon got zapped by the gate! and it turned black again in comic 190 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0190.html), when Xykon returned to the land of the .. existing.

So, I think we have nearly the whole story: Xykon is safe in his soul-hidey-place, and a nameless goblin is inhabiting the skeleton.

[StickArc]

Um, read the comic, maybe?

"This may be bad for my my well(being)"

Must have misinterperated the comic. It seems he was about to say well-being. And don't come off at me so harsly, I was only pointing out an alternate theory. Nobody likes a predictable story.

Edit: And you're all absolutly right about Redclaok's pendant. Good catch. Allthough predictable stories are no fun.

[Nightmarenny]

I would like to point out two things. That is the real Xykon, and Redcloak did not suddenly "grow a pair". Redcloak has always put up with Xykon for no other reason that he is a means to an end. He is determined to accomplish the goal, driven by his hatred and desire for revenge. Xykon is just in it for kicks, and does not take it, or anything, very seriously. Redcloak has had to humble himself in order to grow more powerful, now that he is powerful, he doesn't really need to take sh!t from the lich anymore. He doesn't need Xykon anymore, just the army. Which I might add, is loyal to him, not Xykon. What you are seeing is not really a new Redcloak, rather the old one come out of hiding again. Xykon is surprised and thrown off balance by this sudden re-amergence. Despite all his magical power, he is in fact a weak minded fool.OH GOD. NOnononononononononononononononononononononononono no A thosand freaking times bloody no. Check the submissive way he speaks, the way he fears for his well being, the way R.C. threatens him with a rebuking. You think he could rebuke Xykon?

Repeat after me

Xykon is an epic level demi-god. He plays with life like a toy.

Red Cloak is a high level character roughly equivelent to a Palidin that got beaten down by Roy.

[Nightmarenny]

Must have misinterperated the comic. It seems he was about to say well-being. And don't come off at me so harsly, I was only pointing out an alternate theory. Nobody likes a predictable story.

Edit: And you're all absolutly right about Redclaok's pendant. Good catch. Allthough predictable stories are no fun.
This insanity is getting to me.:smalleek:

[kierthos]

Way to go, Redcloak!

Oh, and I really doubt that Xykon is one of the catapult loads. Redcloak said fire the catapults. I mean, if you're going to launch a lich with a seige weapon, what else could you possibly launch that wouldn't be underwhelming in comparison?

I'm guessing either the standard "large rocks", hornets nests, or some sort of incindiery or explosive catapult round.

[StickArc]

This insanity is getting to me.

What insanity? The insanity of my post (which was reasonable) or the suspense? The latter is understandable. I wanna freeze myself to wednsday.

[Nightmarenny]

What insanity? The insanity of my post (which was reasonable) or the suspense? The latter is understandable. I wanna freeze myself to wednsday.
The insanity of everyones post.

"dispite what we've scene in the past I believe that Xycon has completly changed to a submissive twurp that fears for his life"

My god. The staging of this comic makes it painfully obvious. One of the jokes is even based around it.

[eilandesq]

Whatever the (obviously fake) Xykon is, it isn't a skeleton, and probably isn't even a lesser intelligent undead. My money's on it being a moderately high level hobgoblin (allowing for the fake to take some punishment before croaking) disguised with an illusion.

[StickArc]

The insanity of everyones post.

"dispite what we've scene in the past I believe that Xycon has completly changed to a submissive twurp that fears for his life"

My god. The staging of this comic makes it painfully obvious. One of the jokes is even based around it.

Sorry for posting then. I guess me and everyone else with a theory different than yours will go sit in a corner now. Go have a cookie, you win.

[Juron Pilo]

Hrm. The exchange between O-Chul and Hinjo might have as yet unexplained importance to my prophecy theory.

(Gah, had this in the wrong thread, sorry. I'm getting silly.)

[Turcano]

Are there really people who still think that this "Xykon" isn't a decoy? It doesn't make sense at any level:
Liches don't scare easily, and Xykon is no exception. First of all, you do not threaten a lich with a rebuke check; they have turn resistance, so you need to be at least four levels higher to even hope to pull off a successful rebuke check. If you threaten a lich, you threaten to smash his phylactery (which Redcloak just happens to possess) into small pieces.
Xykon isn't the kind of person to act in a subordinate manner to anybody, much less someone who is a frequent subject of his abuse.
There are other types of intelligent undead, even in the SRD, and they tend to be much easier to rebuke (ghouls come to mind).If that's the Xykon that I know and love, then I'm Bonnie Prince Charlie.

[Nightmarenny]

Sorry for posting then. I guess me and everyone else with a theory different than yours will go sit in a corner now. Go have a cookie, you win.
This isn't about a theory. You have a bunch of people ignoring the facts because they, you know what I don't know.

Just explain to me two things

-Why yelling at the Lich thing would be oddly Theriputic if it were the real thing, would it be normal theriputic?

-Why would Xykon talk like that. Explain his dialouge in a way that doesn't assume that he's complety defferent then before.

[N0-1_H3r3]

Xykon is an epic level demi-god. He plays with life like a toy.
Really? Where's that stated. He got torn apart by a fighter of only moderate level (the OotS are clearly around level 15 - high enough to be powerful, but not so high they're invulnerable and fearless). He's an undead wizard or sorcerer of high level... that's all. Which essentially means lots of damage-dealing spells, but not necessarily that many command/control/create undead spells (those, traditionally, are the realm of the Cleric - Wizards don't get the same spells until later levels)


Red Cloak is a high level character roughly equivelent to a Palidin that got beaten down by Roy.
Redcloak is an undead cleric of some level or another - we don't know for certain, but its above 10, given how casually he uses Slay Living. Clerics are notorious for being skilled anti-undead characters... and this is a Cleric who appears to have been hiding layers of motivation and purpose for quite a while, so he's likely to be a lot more powerful than we first imagined.

[Ariko]

Ooh! I know! Its Xyclon or Xycon or Zycon while the actual Xykon is elsewhere :smallwink:

[StickArc]

This isn't about a theory. You have a bunch of people ignoring the facts because they, you know what I don't know.

Just explain to me two things

-Why yelling at the Lich thing would be oddly Theriputic if it were the real thing, would it be normal theriputic?

-Why would Xykon talk like that. Explain his dialouge in a way that doesn't assume that he's complety defferent then before.

As I've just said, you win. Have your cookie. I'm wrong. You're right. I missed key facts in the comic that properly hint at the fact that this particular Xycon, is indeed, a facade. A fake. A decoy. A phoney. A psueo-Xycon. A puppet. An illusion. A summon. A lesser undead. A goblin in disguise.

The phylacter's color, the subordinate personality, and Redcloak's manner of speaking all point to a phoney. I must have taken stupid pills this morning by mistake.

Sorry for posting.

[Green Bean]

Sweet. Everything's better in widescreen.

Plus the Giant just gave us enough discussion fodder to last us until the next one.

[Turcano]

As I've just said, you win. Have your cookie. I'm wrong. You're right. I missed key facts in the comic that properly hint at the fact that this particular Xycon, is indeed, a facade. A fake. A decoy. A phoney. A psueo-Xycon. A puppet. An illusion. A summon. A lesser undead. A goblin in disguise.

The phylacter's color, the subordinate personality, and Redcloak's manner of speaking all point to a phoney. I must have taken stupid pills this morning by mistake.

Sorry for posting.

Ooh! A pity party! Am I invited? :smalltongue:

[Nightmarenny]

As I've just said, you win. Have your cookie. I'm wrong. You're right. I missed key facts in the comic that properly hint at the fact that this particular Xycon, is indeed, a facade. A fake. A decoy. A phoney. A psueo-Xycon. A puppet. An illusion. A summon. A lesser undead. A goblin in disguise.

The phylacter's color, the subordinate personality, and Redcloak's manner of speaking all point to a phoney. I must have taken stupid pills this morning by mistake.

Sorry for posting.Oh settle down, that wasn't directed specificaly at you.

[WarDragon]

Unlike most people here, I can very well believe that Xykon would reverse like that. Think about it; he's used to being on top, holding all the cards, and suddenly, his "lackey" grows a spine, and turns on him. Not only that, but Redcloak is more than capable of carrying out his threats. Not only does he hold Xykon's phylactery, we haven't seen anything that indicates Xykon is above 16th level (since he's cast one 8th level spell, and no 9th) making him ECL 20; Recloak, even assuming he's a cohort, could have up to ECL 18, all of it actual cleric levels.

EDIT: And Redcloak's amulet is the same as it was last time we saw him. It's an art upgrade.


The comic has been made of unadulterated win since Elan broke out of prison. And it's never really been bad. :D

As for Xykon:
He's fundamentally a bully. It's easy to pick on people when they aren't as strong as you, or when you have the advantage over them. The tables have turned since our villains were last in Dorukan's Fortress, and Xykon very firmly needs Redcloak to have a hope in heck of winning this. Redcloak's fiery passion, combined with his tactical skill and obvious spellcasting power, have just been reinforced by confidence. Put bluntly, Xykon may have just blinked. Unless it IS a decoy, things aren't going back to normal after a battle like this.
Agreed, on both counts.

[StickArc]

Ooh! A pity party! Am I invited?
You sure are. Grounding speculations to the ground always deserves some sort of party.


Oh settle down, that wasn't directed specificaly at you.
I know, I know. It was directed at everyone who was posting a simmilar theory to mine. We're all in the wrong together.

(I'm just busting chops. You seemed to come down a little hard on me so I retaliated with some sarcastic humor.)

[Xartyve]

Duo-wide! AWESOME AWESOME AWESOME AWESOME AWESOME AWESOME COMIC!!!! 10/10

[SPoD]

OK, put me down on the side of, "Not only is that a decoy, but I can't fathom how you could think it was NOT a decoy."

What does Rich have to put into a comic to get such a point across? Have Redcloak turn to the audience and wink?? It's obvious that these two characters have undergone a complete change of role literally overnight. Last night, Redcloak had to provide amusement to even rate one minute of Xykon's attention. And you think that this morning, anything has changed?

To anyone who says that because Redcloak wears the phylactery, I would point out that destroying it does NOT kill a lich who is still in one piece. Destroying it prevents the lich from reforming AFTER he is destroyed. So if Redcloak smashed the phylactery, Xykon would simply obliterate him with one spell and make a new phylactery. The fact is, Xykon can wipe the floor with Redcloak, and has never shown fear for his life from his lackey before.

Besides which, he starts the conversation with, "Excuse me?" before Redcloak even threatens him. Since when did Xykon have manners?

This is no different than the Nale-Elan twin swap, only this time, Rich isn't explicitly letting us in on it. But come on, Xykon is suddenly wearing a new necklace, is acting completely out of character, and Redcloak threatens to rebuke him (something he physically cannot do)?

Uh, yeah, it's a decoy. Or Rich had a stroke and turned into a much worse writer over the weekend.

[K'tai]

Holy crap. As much as I had considered Redcloak to be...well, the REAL threat, I...I'm speechless. God, I love you Rich.

[SPoD]

Not only does he hold Xykon's phylactery, we haven't seen anything that indicates Xykon is above 16th level (since he's cast one 8th level spell, and no 9th)

Xykon casts Meteor Swarm in one of the bonus strips in No Cure for the Paladin Blues.

[Turcano]

You sure are. Grounding speculations to the ground always deserves some sort of party.

Hurray! I'll bring the Sun Chips!

[Nightmarenny]

Unlike most people here, I can very well believe that Xykon would reverse like that. Think about it; he's used to being on top, holding all the cards, and suddenly, his "lackey" grows a spine, and turns on him. Not only that, but Redcloak is more than capable of carrying out his threats. Not only does he hold Xykon's phylactery, we haven't seen anything that indicates Xykon is above 16th level (since he's cast one 8th level spell, and no 9th) making him ECL 20; Recloak, even assuming he's a cohort, could have up to ECL 18, all of it actual cleric levels.

EDIT: And Redcloak's amulet is the same as it was last time we saw him. It's an art upgrade.


Agreed, on both counts.
Ok fine whatever. You believe he could change like that. Lets ignore Xykons laid back nature and ability to kill everything he fights like nothing(only losing to Roy because he touched the gate.) Ans all his power.

Lets look at this literaly. Liruraly does this make any sense? If someone made a story about this. Written like it has do you think it would be scene favorably? don't you think the timing a execution is abit off? Especialy for someone of Rich's talents? Does this seem oddly paced to anyone else? It should. It really should.


Edit-
my writings starting to suffer, I'm going to bed.

[Haruspex]

Uh, yeah, it's a decoy. Or Rich had a stroke and turned into a much worse writer over the weekend.

I like how there are only two choices here. Occam's Razor, if I recall correctly.

[StickArc]

What SPoD said

Yes! I know! We're all wrong! Please forgive us O merciful beings in the right!

Again, let me apologize. I already know. You don't have to prove it anymore.

[Demented]

Xykon will be...

...hidden inside a coconut custard pie!

[Haruspex]

Xykon will be...

...hidden inside a coconut custard pie!

With acid-spitting beetles?

[K2]

woot, go red

[Turcano]

Xykon will be...

...hidden inside a coconut custard pie!

With acid-spitting beetles!

Edit: Ack, I got ninja'd.

[BlueWizard]

Redcloak speaks!
Badass!

[ReaganStorme]

Its so obvious everyone!!! the ORANGE goblin in the second LH panel has a necklace!! He's the one that says "Oh man, I can't wait!!".. Thats the fake Xykon.

[Aiani]

That was confusing (:redcloak: and :xykon:) but I'm sure there will be some kind of interesting explanation for why they are acting that way. I felt bad for Azure City's troops. They are all so down and in need of a good battle speech (not like Elan's).

[Demented]

With acid-spitting beetles?

Close!

But it does have a "siege engine disposition" written all over it. :smallwink:


(Poor Turcano, post faster!)

[Phylactery]

Really interesting comic :smallsmile:


-Why would Xykon talk like that. Explain his dialouge in a way that doesn't assume that he's complety defferent then before.

explain his dialogue in a way that isn't at least slightly inconsistant with him being a fake.

the first panel with xycon in is completely in discord with the 'fake xycon' theory:

X: "can i just get a minute?"
RC:"no"
X:"great." (carries on speaking anyway)


that sounds like xycon to me :smallbiggrin: , as does the fact that redcloak has allready explained this plan to him 'a billion' times... if he were a low-level undead inposter, he'd just be told what to do once, surely?

the second panel with xycon is completely out of charector tho, but it's possible that he's actually scared of RC (who commands an army. xycon & couple-hundered undead v redcloak and 30,000ish goblins = dead xycon). plus RC has his phylactery... maybe there was some arm-twistage going on: 'go and draw fire, and i'll keep your phylactery safe so it matters not if you die, or dont do as i say, and i'll be breaking your phylactery whilst these 30,000 hobgoblins dismantle you'

-----------

anyhoo, reason i joined was to ask a couple of questions about the amulet on 'xycon', what with me not knowing all that much about dnd amulets:

is it possible it's some kind of control-undead amulet? ie, one that's letting RCs control/intimidate undead clerical-thingy be more effective against xycon? maybe he tricked it onto him?

is there such a thing as an amulet of +5 int for undead? if it's a fake xycon, it must be an actual undead for RC to have threatend to rebuke it... is it possibly an amulet that allows a normal skeleten to act intelegently enough to pass off as xycon?

ta

[WarDragon]

Xykon casts Meteor Swarm in one of the bonus strips in No Cure for the Paladin Blues.
Still need to get the books, but my point stands. If Xykon is 18th level (not counting the +4 LA from being a lich), then Redcloak can be as high as 20th. Remember, he was able to heal himself without assistance after fighting Miko, so she couldn't have beaten him too badly, not to mention that he wanted to lose that one.

Again, Xykon is a bully. Bullies back down when people stand up to them. He's got a high Charisma, but rather low Wis and Int, meaning he's basically weak-willed.

[The Wanderer]

Just like Xykon backed down and completely caved into fear when Roy and the rest of the Order confronted him?

[WarDragon]

Just like Xykon backed down and completely caved into fear when Roy and the rest of the Order confronted him?
The two situations are hardly similar. With the Order, he held all the cards up until Roy hulked-out. Here, he needs Redcloak more than Redcloak needs him, and he just now realized that.

[tanonev]

the first panel with xycon in is completely in discord with the 'fake xycon' theory:

X: "can i just get a minute?"
RC:"no"
X:"great." (carries on speaking anyway)


that sounds like xycon to me :smallbiggrin: , as does the fact that redcloak has allready explained this plan to him 'a billion' times... if he were a low-level undead inposter, he'd just be told what to do once, surely?


(1) You're missing the rest of the panel: "Excuse me, uh, Redcloak?" Since when did Xykon use either "excuse me" or "uh" in that manner? In fact, notice that most of the time, Xykon doesn't even refer to Redcloak by name. He wasn't this spineless even when he was, well, spineless and stuck in his phylactery.

(2) Redcloak had to do some major negotiating to tell Xykon his plan ONCE. I don't recall Xykon ever wanting to hear about the plan again (it puts him to sleep, remember? :smallwink:).

[Nightmarenny]

Still need to get the books, but my point stands. If Xykon is 18th level (not counting the +4 LA from being a lich), then Redcloak can be as high as 20th. Remember, he was able to heal himself without assistance after fighting Miko, so she couldn't have beaten him too badly, not to mention that he wanted to lose that one.

Again, Xykon is a bully. Bullies back down when people stand up to them. He's got a high Charisma, but rather low Wis and Int, meaning he's basically weak-willed.
No Xykon is a psyko. A Chaotic evil caracter the has no fear and no respect for life. Everyone who is a jerk is not a bully and not all bullies actural are cowards. Have you ever stood up to one? it doesn't end like you'd think.

[totalnerduk]

Hah. Awesome. I got up early to get my fix before heading to work, and it was oh-so worth it. Sweet, sweet. candy for the mind.

[tanonev]

The two situations are hardly similar. With the Order, he held all the cards up until Roy hulked-out. Here, he needs Redcloak more than Redcloak needs him, and he just now realized that.

Two words: Goblin zombies. (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0096.html)

[Nightmarenny]

The two situations are hardly similar. With the Order, he held all the cards up until Roy hulked-out. Here, he needs Redcloak more than Redcloak needs him, and he just now realized that.
No he doesn't. He's strong enough to take Azure city himself if he did things right but that requires more work.

Why would Xykon need Red Cloak? Because he commands the Hobgoblins? Your forgeting how you become commander. If Xykon wanted to he could easily.

[SPoD]

Yes! I know! We're all wrong! Please forgive us O merciful beings in the right!

Again, let me apologize. I already know. You don't have to prove it anymore.

First, it takes a while to type a long post like mine, and you changed your mind in the middle of me typing.

And second, there are still people arguing that the Xykon in this strip is the real Xykon, so your capitulation changes nothing.

EDIT: Xykon isn't a bully. Bullies inspire fear through intimidation. Xykon has never cared what ANYONE thinks of him, for good or ill. He just kills them and animates their corpses. Did he waste even one word threatening the ogres who were unhappy with their employment deal? No, he just killed them. That's not bullying.

[warmachine]

When the maths says it's an even fight, troop morale becomes very important. It's not looking good for the good guys.

[Aquillion]

someone noticed that redcloak's necklace now has a white center. what does this mean?

The now white center of Redcloak's necklace is a very important point: when did it last turn white? When Zykon got zapped by the gate! and it turned black again in comic 190 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0190.html), when Xykon returned to the land of the .. existing.

So, I think we have nearly the whole story: Xykon is safe in his soul-hidey-place, and a nameless goblin is inhabiting the skeleton.
Nope. Check out here (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0414.html)--just a few comics ago, but it was before they had their battle plans down regarding 'targets', and the Xykon there is plainly the real Xykon. Redcloak's necklace is already white there.

Since Redcloak indicates that they haven't done any planning for the battle, it follows that the phylactery's change of color can't have anything to do with it. Possibly they stashed Xykon's phylactery somewhere in case something happens to Redcloak in the battle.

Remember, Azure city has access to very good seers--the first thing they'll do when trying to fight a lich is scry for his phylactery. The change of color might just have something to do with that.

...although, liches and phylacteries don't seem to be very common knowledge here. Miko didn't even seem to recognize what a lich was, at least on sight. Could be that nobody knows about how a phylactery works.

[Amon Star]

WOW :smalleek: There was some major power reversal in this one. Why on earth did :xykon: let :redcloak: talk to him like that?

Also, I like the "This one is for you, mum" comment by :redcloak:. Remember, even villains have families.

[Nightmarenny]

WOW :smalleek: There was some major power reversal in this one. Why on earth did :xykon: let :redcloak: talk to him like that?

Also, I like the "This one is for you, mum" comment by :redcloak:. Remember, even villains have families.
These are threads for a reason man. We've been discussing this since the begining.

[Illsbane]

Wow. o_o What does it say about me that I found Redcloak to be a lot more sympathetic in today's instalment than Roy? And for the record, I always wondered how Redcloak managed not to blow up and Rebuke Xykon; they must be close to each other in level and he does have the power ...

[Shatteredtower]

Bah. If the Giant wants that portrayal to be consistent with Xykon, he'll find a way, regardless of what we presume must be for proper storytelling. Whether most people think otherwise, or most smart people think otherwise (assuming there's a difference) matters not a whit.

Obvious and properly characterized don't matter (though since Xykon doesn't seem in the least afraid, I don't see evidence that this can't possibly be him). Xykon or Velma, what matters is that the strip entertains me.

[Nightmarenny]

Bah. If the Giant wants that portrayal to be consistent with Xykon, he'll find a way, regardless of what we presume must be for proper storytelling. Whether most people think otherwise, or most smart people think otherwise (assuming there's a difference) matters not a whit.

Obvious and properly characterized don't matter (though since Xykon doesn't seem in the least afraid, I don't see evidence that this can't possibly be him). Xykon or Velma, what matters is that the strip entertains me.
"proper storytelling" no. Bad. Bad. There isn't a way to justify this and Rich isn't going to.

[Phylactery]

(1) You're missing the rest of the panel: "Excuse me, uh, Redcloak?" Since when did Xykon use either "excuse me" or "uh" in that manner? In fact, notice that most of the time, Xykon doesn't even refer to Redcloak by name. He wasn't this spineless even when he was, well, spineless and stuck in his phylactery.

heh...

tbh, when i first read it i took it as sarcasm at the fact that RC was doing the leader-type stuff, whilst xykon's the one that's actually in charge; the fact he ignores the 'no' makes the fawning look even less sincere.

anyway, if RC has somehow gotten the upper hand, you might expect xykon to speak somewhat submissively.


(2) Redcloak had to do some major negotiating to tell Xykon his plan ONCE. I don't recall Xykon ever wanting to hear about the plan again (it puts him to sleep, remember? :smallwink:).

I'm sure he'd take more interest in the plan if it involved something that wasn't conducive to his long-term well-being

tbh, the only thing i find out of charector is the 'ok, ok, sorry sorry!' bit. i think he's probably a decoy, but i'm not sure. i cant really explain 'xycons' first panel if he's just a low-level undead skeleton in xykon's cloak...

I hope he's a decoy... that'd mean xykons wandering around with no cloak on... a naked xykon would look hilarious :smallbiggrin:

[atteSmythe]

This thread needs more [spoiler] tags. :/

I love the layout (I mean, the content mostly, of course, but the layout is unique this time). Mirroring the exact panel layout is a nice touch. I can't wait to see it in book form!

[Shatteredtower]

"proper storytelling" no. Bad. Bad. There isn't a way to justify this and Rich isn't going to.Mr. Burlew will do as he pleases, what his readership knows about rules and proper writing be damned. He's shown that time and time again, sometimes to mixed review, but the point remains: no reader gets to speak on his behalf.

[Mr Teufel]

If that's the real Xykon, I promise to post "Redcloak Spanks Xycon" in my sig for a week.

[tanonev]

tbh, when i first read it i took it as sarcasm at the fact that RC was doing the leader-type stuff, whilst xykon's the one that's actually in charge; the fact he ignores the 'no' makes the fawning look even less sincere.

It is an OotS requirement that any sarcastic statement made be reflected in the eyes/eyebrows of the speaker ;)

(I think I'm gonna regret saying this...)


I hope he's a decoy... that'd mean xykons wandering around with no cloak on... a naked xykon would look hilarious

o_O

I'm hoping that's a duplicate/illusionary cloak...

[Nightmarenny]

Mr. Burlew will do as he pleases, what his readership knows about rules and proper writing be damned. He's shown that time and time again, sometimes to mixed review, but the point remains: no reader gets to speak on his behalf.
He will do as he please's. Thats irrelavent. Even if by some sort of weird chance your right this part of the story will still be out of character to Xykon(you can't make inconsistence consistant by saying "I'm writer it works!) and still be bad story telling. Which prooves its not the case because the Giant is a much better storyteller than that.

[Phylactery]

o_O

I'm hoping that's a duplicate/illusionary cloak...

c'mon, just imagine it... thin, uber-powerful stick-skeleton walking round in the nuddy, it'd be funny :smallbiggrin:


He will do as he please's. Thats irrelavent. Even if by some sort of weird chance your right this part of the story will still be out of character to Xykon(you can't make inconsistence consistant by saying "I'm writer it works!) and still be bad story telling. Which prooves its not the case because the Giant is a much better storyteller than that.

the behaviour is out of charector, and theres a new amulet that i doubt is coincidental. both of these will probably be explained.

as long as the explination fits, it'd be good story-telling. it being a dupe would explain it, but there are other possible explanations.

conscider this:

Xycon wants to penetrate the defenses, and sieze and hold the gate for a couple of weeks so that he can gain control of it.

RC wants to annhiolate the paladin.

different objectives... X would be happy with driving the paladin off, which RC wouldn't be, and RC would be happy with a total massacre, wiping out both sides, which X wouldn be happy with as he probably wants some troops to defend the gate whilst he works on it.

so, it's possible that RC is positioning to coup-de-grace X in order to achieve his objective, and has somehow gained some power over him allready, by threatening his phylactery or getting a funny amulet onto him. it's even posible that RC has been forsing X towards the azure gate, in order to deal with the paladin... dont forget it was him that burnt down the elfish gate, forsing them to move on to another gate. he might have somehow gotten the oots to the original gate, again forsing them to choose another gate, untill azure city was the target.

[Golem]

Gentlemen, Ladies, please, PLEASE! There are some who theorize that that Xycon is a phoney, decoy, doppelganger, what have you; and there are those who theorize that Redcloak, Leutenant that he is, has gotten serious and realized that he's on the cusp of accomplishing his life's dream--REVENGE, on those who took everything he knew, everything he loved and cared about, the driving force behind his evil, the reason he breathes and lives--But these theories are neither mutually exclusive, nor are they provable with anything save time. They are, in fact, distractions from the big picture, the thoughts of which I have after the spoiler tag.

Before us lie two diametrically opposed armies numbering not in the hundreds, but in the literal THOUSANDS. Like it or not, NPCs or not, it is impossible to think that this battle will not have massive, long-reaching reprocussions for the members of the Order that survive and on the story to come. Yes, you made your listen check, I said SURVIVE--There is no guarantee that all the members of the Order will survive, PCs or not, in the midst of chaos like war. Haley sensed that, after being told off a while back, and her priorities changed to reflect the true face of the matter: She did not know who would live, and who would die. She could not predict it, she could not be *sure*--levels or no levels, She could be killed, or Elan could; and the thought of losing him so soon after opening her heart and language again must have been especially troublesome.

It has been hard to ignore the cold, cruel reality--so to speak--of the battle that's slowly working into its grand opening. We see what is truly important to the characters, in moments like this: Some change not at all, some pause and reflect, wondering what the future will bring. Some, like Redcloak, show facets of their personality we haven't seen before, which surprise us. We were told to buckle our seat belts for this year, and if this battle is any sample, we'd better have our tray tables in the upright position and feather fall at the ready--It looks to be an incredible ride.

[Alcino]

Wow, that was really interesting, from an artistic point of view.

And thanks for justifying my recent purchase of a large widescreen monitor.

[Max_Sinister]

I liked the "parallel" structure. :)

[BlueWizard]

Again! Yeah Redcloak. Such a minor character at first, and has blossomed into my favorite villain of the strip. Even if he dies horribly here... it is great to see worthy villains go down in a great fight.

[Archangel62]

Odd thought involving the catapults. If they made another phylactery and put it on the Ersatz Xykon they plan might be to launch him (false Xykon) into the city. The necklace will be found by someone, maybe taken as plunder to the lord. Xykon slowly regrows in the throneroom or nearby and launches an attack from within.

That or Redcloak is using multiple Xykons to confuse the order and force them to waste resources. Redcloak has been more assertive lately but Xykon wouldn't back down that easily by previous track record.

That and I also had a rather funny thought of a report going something like this:

"Sir they're firing arcane casters at us!"

"Respond in Kind!"

And from Vaarsuvius "What the....PUT ME DOWN!"

[Alex Kidd]

It would be great if "Xykon" is actually the MitD and the real Xykon is standing under the umbrella right now....

I like it, "Xykon" is acting like the MiTD and if Xykon didn't tell Redcloak about the switch, he'd probably be shocked at how Redcloak was treating him.

[erewhon]

Okay.

This strip.

This one right here?

This stuff is genius, folks. I'm talkin' Winsor McCay genius in the making. Rich Burlewe is getting more and more confident with his layouts and perspective, taking more risks, moving forward so that the story is overcoming the format, changing it.

He's had splash pages before, but the scaling here, the paralellism, all very groundbreaking. Combined with the perspective he tried out in the prison scene, its obvious his craft is maturing strongly.

Incredible stuff, for a stick-figure comic. :D

EXCELLENT. Keep it up, sir!

[Eldhrin]

As far as I'm concerned, the art difference means it's not Xykon, even without the major personality alteration.

I wonder who it is, but I think Redcloak is still Redcloak. He's just come up with some sort of Xykon decoy.

[TheAnimal]

He's had splash pages before, but the scaling here, the paralellism, all very groundbreaking. Combined with the perspective he tried out in the prison scene, its obvious his craft is maturing strongly.

Incredible stuff, for a stick-figure comic. :D

Second this opinion. The mirroring between the despairing defenders of Azure City vs. the gleeful Goblinoid hordes is pure comic genius.
And way to create suspense by getting us guessing if Xykon has suddenly become possessed by Stanley the Tool or if it's really a simulacrum.:smallcool:
Can't wait for the next update.

[Pronounceable]

GO REDCLOAK! WOOOOOOOOO!

I can't belive myself writing that but...

RECLOAK IS DA GOBLIN! GO REDCLOAK GO! WOOHOOOOOO!

[Delgarde]

While I have a feeling this is reading entirely too far into everything, Ill like to just point out the differences in comic #148, #300, and the most recent ones, directing your attention to Redcloaks amulet. Just more speculation. Time will tell if Im just making connections that shouldnt be make.


Intriguing... I'm not sure quite what to make of it, but yes, I think your observation is at least a valid one. The differences do seem consistent - i.e the strips shortly before and after the ones mentioned match...

So yeah, good spotting - I'd never have noticed that myself...

[Pretamanteau]

OK guys, this may just be because I have an interest in Royal Navy history but I have a feeling that the invading army are about to get a *very* big shock!

There is a very good reason that the Navy use the word "Shoot" when it comes to making the big guns go bang, that's because the verb "Fire" has *two* very distinct meanings, one of which is definitely bad for your health!!

(Long time lurker, registered just for this!!)

[Delgarde]

Intriguing... I'm not sure quite what to make of it, but yes, I think your observation is at least a valid one. The differences do seem consistent - i.e the strips shortly before and after the ones mentioned match...

Actually, scratch that last remark. #415 and #416 are inconsistent with what you seem to be suggesting.

[factotum]

Intriguing... I'm not sure quite what to make of it, but yes, I think your observation is at least a valid one.

Except, as already pointed out, Redcloak's amulet already had the centre filled in in strip 416, where Xykon was most definitely acting like his usual self--and furthermore, before Redcloak apparently had his "revelation" about using Xykon as a distraction target.

However, I'm one who believes that is NOT Xykon. Has to be an undead of some kind, because otherwise Redcloak couldn't threaten to Rebuke him, but not Xykon, noway, nohow.

[Shara_Littlebottom]

Awesome double wide comic! :-D

[Delgarde]

If you threaten a lich, you threaten to smash his phylactery (which Redcloak just happens to possess) into small pieces.


Well yeah, but while it might be more realistic, threatening to break the phylactery doesn't sound half as good as threatening to rebuke his ass into the middle of next week...

[Yorkiebar]

Well the way I see it there are two rational possibilities:

1) Redcloak > Xykon. Redcloak has been trying to give submissive and supportive leadership until now rather than dominant leadership but this has gradually made Xykon more and more lazy (very obvious in recent strips, e.g. 416 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0416.html)). But now Redloak has finally snapped and asserted himself as the real leader all along.

2) Xykon is and always has been the leader, but he's become relaxed and lazy in authority (416 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0416.html) again) so that Redcloak is the one with the troops' support and the real power. Xykon is so laid back in his attitude that he didn't bother to assert himself when Redcloak took charge today.

..Though it's probably something much more random and shocking. :D

[TheAnimal]

There is a very good reason that the Navy use the word "Shoot" when it comes to making the big guns go bang, that's because the verb "Fire" has *two* very distinct meanings, one of which is definitely bad for your health!!

Isn't the second meaning a noun? :smallconfused:

[Anon-a-mouse]

The spell is "Simulacrum". Note the necklace has a ruby - one of the components for simulacrum.

[BisectedBrioche]

I'd say that Xykon's definatly fake.

And its nice to see that Elan's speech has left the army so motivated.:smallwink:

[Luvlein]

Yes, there will be lots of azure blood on Elan's hands this evening.

[Pretamanteau]

Isn't the second meaning a noun? :smallconfused:

Fire is also a noun but the verb has two distinct meanings, in common usage "Fire a gun" means to pull the trigger, unfortunately in Naval circles a common tactic used to be to "Fire" ships which were then allowed to float / sail into enemy vessels in the days of sail

[Mr_Shrubber]

Wow, this comic is really gathering pace now. :redcloak: sounding off like he got a pair! And I'm digging the new Widescreen™ format (continuing the TiVo™ theme?) - hopefully it'll stick around for the big battle.

Also, I liked the tiny, tiny little detail of seeing :mitd:, :redcloak: and :xykon: in the middle of a sea of hobgoblins in that second panel.

Oh, and the lone zombie muttering "Brains" is always good for a cheap laugh.

[battleburn]

Whoooooohoooo!!!!!111oneeleven
This comic is the new number one in my list.
And the number second, third, you get the picture ;-)

Redcloak really seems to be able to handle the situation. I wonder what kind or arangement he and Xycon have that he is so fully in charge of the operation that he can command Xycon like that.
He also really has some deep seated issues with Azure city, or at least the paladins. Besides the whole 'bearer of the crimson mantle' thing. Perhaps the last bearer was his mother? Because of the: "This one's for you, Mom."

[BisectedBrioche]

I would also like to note that the new widescreen format means I could, via the magic of TV based web access, read the comic on a 42" plasma screen....if I owned one.

[The Glitter Ninja]

Great strip! I shall gloat and say it looked marvelous on my widescreen laptop.

I figure this has already been speculated before, but I'll put it behind a spoiler anyway:

I think Redcloak and Xykon have changed places for the battle. That's why Xykon's eyes are so wide and why he says "uh" before "Redcloak" in the first balloon. Xykon might actually have changed places with someone else and that's the real Redcloak. Either way, this looks like fun.

[RDarken]

In case no one pointed it out: There is a typo in the fourth-to-last panel. O-Chul channels Thog for a moment, saying "I go to defend Soon's Gate."

[Luvlein]

And where is the typo?

[Pantler]

I love the way human and hobgoblin mentality were compared.
As for :xykon::
I don't know what is it, but it sure is going to be interesting. It can't be a hobgoblin, because it would refer to Redcloak as "Supreme Leader".
And last but not least:
http://k100.pl.pl/hippieroach.JPGMake love not war!

[Taelas]

In case no one pointed it out: There is a typo in the fourth-to-last panel. O-Chul channels Thog for a moment, saying "I go to defend Soon's Gate."
That's grammatically and contextually correct. It's rarely used, but there is absolutely nothing wrong with it.

[Silmarwen]

After 422 strips, you still get to surprize us Giant :smallwink:
Nice work!

[SteveMB]

I'm in the "it's a fake Xykon" camp. The fake Xykon has big, round eye sockets. The real Xykon has narrower eye sockets with points at the outer ends.
Well, the real Xykon is drawn with round eyes when he's showing a strong reaction to something (example, #416, frame 6 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0416.html)). "Xykon"'s subservient attitude is the clearest clue, I think.

[Fingolfin]

Very sweet technique and very good comic. I can't wait for the plot unfolds here.

I see a possibility of Azure city now being destroyed and our gang in some circumstances be outside when it happens. Interesting..

[Zephra]

so here's what I think
redcloak seems to be more powerful, and more in charge. so if xykon dies, that leaves him with the army. he's more powerful anyway, seems like. and meaner

[Blood]

The width was a bit annoying, but I can live with it.

I wonder what Redcloak's planning, and why he appears to be in command of Xykon?

[Baalzebub]

Wide Screen?? simply awesome!! And the Ending? "Fire The Catapults! :smallmad: " I love that part.

[fizzbang]

I'm betting I'm not the first to make this guess, but...

... That's what Redcloak's plan is! He raised a skeleton and dressed it like Xykon so it could draw fire!

After all, Xykon wouldn't be so submissive to Redcloak normally, and I deeply doubt that Redcloak would be able to turn a powerful lich like Xykon. And it fits in perfectly with the idea he seemed to have when Xykon was talking about a bullseye.

Man, I guess the OotS is in for an unpleasant surprise!

Kudos to Rich for the great comic, and for playing with the format! If this is the treatment we're getting in the run-up to the war, I can't wait for the war itself!

[MrBean13]

Finally the great battle is being started. And I wonder how the goblins interpret the "Fire!", too. Anyways, awesome as ever and widescreen is just cool as it shows the slight similiarity on both sides.

[fizzbang]

Yeah, it's not really Xykon there, but... damn, for a minute there, I had thought Redcloak grew the biggest pair ever to grace a stick comic.

Well, I'm sure he was glad for the chance to say that, anyway. And I definitely like how much he's been developing - I'd say he's my favorite of the antagonists.


Love how the hobgobbos are all marching along talking about it as if it was a walk in the park, along with the zombie shuffling in the same direction muttering Brains.... you go, zombie! It's clear that no one around you can sate your hunger, that's for sure. ;)

Yeah, with the attitude of those hobgoblins and the idea behind the recent "The Most Important Place to Be", I'm wondering if those hobgoblins will find themselves losing morale once the fight starts getting hard.

Of course, since they're easily sacrificed and reanimated minions, morale isn't really a big concern for their side.

[Skulan]

This comic got me excited enough to break down and register, just so I could share an odd thought I had.

I think that's the real Xykon. I also think that Redcloak has access to Control Undead, and is willing to accept the consequences when it wears off, just so he can take down the paladins.

I also think he found, made, or bought a necklace of fireballs.

Xykon's orders: "Load yourself into a catapult, and ready an action to fireball yourself when you reach the city walls. Voluntarily fail your save. I'll see you when you regenerate."

Just an idea I had.

Skulan

[Blaznak]

Wheee! Now THIS feels Epic! Very nicely done...

[mrocktor]

Best line in the comic:

"Brains"

Non sequitur rules!

[DMcCoy1693]

GO REDCLOAK!!!

[Beermancer]

Oooh widescreen strip!
And a Solid Gold one, as usual

Actually, so large it doesnt fit on a 1280 pixel res. Ouch!


And Redcloack keeps rising on my personal OoTS fave characters list. Go Reddy!

[foil_fedora]

Man, o man! Double-wide juicy goodness.

Is it a fake Xykon? Almost has to be... Redcloak is clearly smart enough to know Xykon is a target, and to use a double as a lure. I was half expecting Xykon to make his appearance amid a horde of freshly-raised skeletons dressed in "The Xykon Collection".

Besides fooling his obvious foes, it sets Xykon's mind at ease... since Redcloak is setting up a double to take the hits for Xykon, Xykon won't be expecting it when Redcloak's inevitible double-cross kicks in. After all, Xykon is just a means to an end for Redcloak... once the Paladins are dead, and Redcloak has access to the gate, Xykon is just annoying "dead weight" to be jettisoned.

Of course, Xykon knows this (and Redcloak is just another expendable minion to him), so there will have to be a double-reverse-cross in here somewhere, maybe that *is* the real Xykon, pretending to be the fake Xykon, so he can pretend to go down easy... etc.

"...so I can clearly not choose the wine in front of you. "
"Truly, you have a dizzying intellect."
"Wait til I get going! Now, where was I?"

[Ezlo]

I love the tiny little pictures of Redcloak, Xykon, and MiTD. Just so much detail.

But where is Xykon's flying undead dragony-thing?

Is the real Xykon currently riding it somewhere the Azurians don't expect?

[Baltek Grimm]

Damn... I can hardly wait for the next one...

An epic battle awaits.

And before i forget: GO REDCLOAK!!!!!
:redcloak:

[Dragontail]

Wow, great strip to wake up to. Hooray for widescreen monitors to show the excitement building from both sides in conflict. Great job Giant, your storytelling prowess is abundant!

[fithi]

Wow, an epic strip for the upcoming battle!

I don't know why, but I think my favourite bit was the hippy :roach: . It amused me so much seeing that.

I'm looking forwrad to seeing how the battle turned out, especially after Redcloak talked back to Xykon.

Brilliant work!

[Solmage]

BEST COMIC EVER - I loved Redcloak getting inspired like that by his supreme leaderness AND the memory of Mom :smalltongue:

Seems Xykon did a better job at making "little Redcloak" grow up better than he thought, heh.

[Reptilius]

I bet that the catapults and Xykon's nervousness are connected. Maybe Redcloak is going to catapult him into the city to wreak havoc?

[pendell]

Now that was OUTSTANDING. Thank you, Giant!

Thanks to the poster above who pointed out the infernal hippie. Many chortles!

Redcloak grows a SPINE? Wow ... I guess we see who really wears the pants around here.



Maybe Xykon will be done here, and Redcloak will be the new threat


Redcloak must be very, very confident in his plans. Otherwise it'll be zombie time for him if this fails. You just don't *say* that to the BBEG, especially if you're nothing but a minion.

"This one's for you, mom" -- AWESOME kicker panel and backstoryriffic! She must have been the last bearer of the Scarlet Cloak!

Respectfully,

Brian P.

[Illiander]

unfortunatly, the first barrage from the cataputs will be ordinary rocks (you see them in the second panel, already loaded)


though putting Xykon in a catapult and telling him to cushion his landing himself would be funny, the lack of the dragon makes me think that this is a decoy, and the real Xykon will be coming in from somewhere else (straight down onto the walls from behind a cloud mabey? it's be a good attack angle, cos all arrow misses would hit the AC troops, and they might not even see him coming until he hit them. Also is totally out of the usual plans for ground based warfare (no-one really thinks in 3d, only 2d with distinctions for ground & flying) and having a dragon land on the walls would probably destroy any chance of the defenders holding them, especially if the OOTS has already pushed forward to take out 'Xykon', I doubt they'd be able to get back in time).

if redcloak's been sensible he's won this fight rather easily, unless the undead celestials are a lot weaker that I think they are (repeat Xykon dragon drop attack with them) he really should of put them out of sight, or gotten them to walk until they reached the walls though, hitting the defenders with suprise flyers is probably a lot nastier then getting them to worry about them sooner (having a section of the wall be overrun suddenly will have a huge effect on morale (one way or the other, the defenders could be in the mindset that any casualties boost their morale, rather than harm it (they're not, cos Elan messed up, but they could be)))
I'll stop rambleing now...

[Charmy]

That Xykon is almost certainly a clone. As someone said earlier, a "Simulacrum" is probably the most likely form.
http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/simulacrum.htm

From the previous comic Redcloak was inspired by the word bullseye. He knew that the OoTS would make a beeline for Xykon if he showed himself on the battlefield (kill me first flag), so he's taking advantage of that to lure them into a trap and away from the rest of the troops while the real Xykon wrecks havoc elsewhere.

I was probably pointing out the obvious, but seems there are people who somehow believe this could be the real Xykon c.c

[Korith]

Is it not obvious? Redcloak is a mastermind! Once Xykon ceases to be useful to him, Redcloak will destroy him!

And the Roy will be ticked...either he hates Redcloak for taking away his fun, or he wants to like Redcloak for making his life easier. Such a dilemma that will be!

Fascinating...a prediction I made nearly a year ago, and it may soon come true.

[Sampi]

Go infinite canvas.

Good comic, thanks. Redcloak + spine = great.