Paladin Divine Smite

[TheSethGrey]

So the Paladin Divine Smite is worded that it can only be used with Paladin Spell Slots, but when A Paladin multi-classes with another caster don't their spell slots get mixed all together? How does this affect Divine Smite? Thanks for all your help, I'm trying to make a Paladin that dips into say Warlock for more power in his quest to rid the world of Evil at any cost.

[Yuki Akuma]

It means you can't use Warlock spell slots. No taking a single level of Warlock to get short rest recharging Divine Smites.

[TheSethGrey]

It means you can't use Warlock spell slots. No taking a single level of Warlock to get short rest recharging Divine Smites.

What about other classes to boost the amount of spell slots known? Like Sorcerer?

[Yuki Akuma]

Taking other classes with Spellcasting to give you more spell slots to smite with is fine (but note that the damage caps out at 4th level slots). Warlock just doesn't have Spellcasting.

Dipping another class with Spellcasting would give you an extra 7 spell slots by level 20.

Hell, you'd get that even if you dipped Ranger - a multiclass Ranger/Paladin gets 9th level spell slots despite neither class getting them on their own. Funky. NOPE this is wrong

[TheSethGrey]

Taking other classes with Spellcasting to give you more spell slots to smite with is fine (but note that the damage caps out at 4th level slots). Warlock just doesn't have Spellcasting.

Help me understand this, if you will, because from the PHB section on Multiclassing with Spellcasting and Pact Magic says this:

Pact Magic. If you have both the Spellcasting class
feature and the Pact Magic class feature from the warlock
class, you can use the spell slots you gain from the Pact
Magic feature to cast spells you know or have prepared
from classes with the Spellcasting class feature, and you
can use the spell slots you gain from the Spellcasting
class feature to cast w arlock spells you know.

So my line of thought is, and it's likely wrong, if I can cast Paladin Spells using Warlock Pact Magic/The weird funky Spell Slot thing they get, why wouldn't Divine Smite work?

[Yuki Akuma]

Because Divine Smite says Paladin spell slots. There's no distinction between where your spell slots come from if you have multiple Spellcasting classes, but there is a distinction when you have Spellcasting and Pact Magic. They're separate abilities.

The Pact Magic note in multiclassing says you can use them to cast spells interchangeably. Divine Smite isn't a spell.

[TheSethGrey]

Because Divine Smite says Paladin spell slots. There's no distinction between where your spell slots come from if you have multiple Spellcasting classes, but there is a distinction when you have Spellcasting and Pact Magic. They're separate abilities.

The Pact Magic note in multiclassing says you can use them to cast spells interchangeably. Divine Smite isn't a spell.

Alright, that makes sense, thanks!

[1of3]

Pact Magic Slots might be the only thing it does not work with.

Then again you can argue that according the MC chapter Pact Magic Slots can be interchanged with Spellcasting Slots from other classes. Therefore it should work.

[Yuki Akuma]

Then again you can argue that according the MC chapter Pact Magic Slots can be interchanged with Spellcasting Slots from other classes. Therefore it should work.

For casting spells.

Divine Smite: not a spell.

[TheSethGrey]

For casting spells.

Divine Smite: not a spell.

What about Banishing Strike? That's a spell, and I can use Warlock Spell slots for it.

[Yuki Akuma]

What about Banishing Strike? That's a spell, and I can use Warlock Spell slots for it.

Indeed you can!

[TheSethGrey]

Indeed you can!

But, Can I even prepare it? Do 5th level warlock spell slots from pact magic count? I mean, they are spell slots.

You prepare the list of paladin spells that are available
for you to cast, choosing from the paladin spell list.
When you do so, choose a number of paladin spells
equal to your Charisma modifier + half your paladin
level, rounded down (minimum of one spell). The spells
must be of a level for which you have spell slots.

[Yuki Akuma]

..Oh. Hm. It's 5th level.

Well if you somehow managed to be a Paladin 17/Warlock 9 you could cast it with one of your Warlock spell slots.

[TheSethGrey]

..Oh. Hm. It's 5th level.

Well if you somehow managed to be a Paladin 17/Warlock 9 you could cast it with one of your Warlock spell slots.


Well, the bit I pulled from the PHB doesn't state that it has to be a Paladin level, just that I need a spell slot of the same level.

[Yuki Akuma]

Spells Known and Prepared: You determine what spells you know and can prepare for each class individually, as if you were a single-classed member of that class.

Nope, sorry, the rules are better thought out than that.

[TheSethGrey]

Nope, sorry, the rules are better thought out than that.

Curses! And here I thought I found a loophole to use it at level 11 xD

[TheSethGrey]

Because Divine Smite says Paladin spell slots. There's no distinction between where your spell slots come from if you have multiple Spellcasting classes, but there is a distinction when you have Spellcasting and Pact Magic. They're separate abilities.

The Pact Magic note in multiclassing says you can use them to cast spells interchangeably. Divine Smite isn't a spell.

Wait, Divine Smite says it needs Paladin Spell Slots, once you multi-class your spell slots get mashed together, so are they really Paladin Spell slots anymore?

[Yuki Akuma]

I...

Seriously?

Do you honestly think that multiclassing would cause one of your class features to stop working?

[Callin]

I...

Seriously?

Do you honestly think that multiclassing would cause one of your class features to stop working?


This is Wizards of the Coast we are talking about here....
(not really sure if it should be in blue...)

[TheSethGrey]

I...

Seriously?

Do you honestly think that multiclassing would cause one of your class features to stop working?

Logically? No, but I was debating this concept with another fellow who made that claim, so I thought I'd get your thoughts on the matter, since you're knowledgeable.

[Rhaegar14]

Hell, you'd get that even if you dipped Ranger - a multiclass Ranger/Paladin gets 9th level spell slots despite neither class getting them on their own. Funky.

Paladin and Ranger levels only count for half a caster level on that table, so this is not actually true.

[Yuki Akuma]

Paladin and Ranger levels only count for half a caster level on that table, so this is not actually true.

Yes I realised this after I posted that and forgot to go back and edit it. I'll go do that now

[TheSethGrey]

I...

Seriously?

Do you honestly think that multiclassing would cause one of your class features to stop working?

Didn't Paladins lose a lot of their powers in 3.5 if they Multiclassed? I don't remember all too well.

[Yuki Akuma]

No.

They simply weren't capable of taking any more levels in Paladin. This was a Bad Rule and you should ignore it.

[pwykersotz]

It doesn't matter, you guys are forgetting the part where it says it's capped at 5d8.

[TheSethGrey]

It doesn't matter, you guys are forgetting the part where it says it's capped at 5d8.

Well yeah, but imagine if those spell slots regenerate, doesn't matter cause Paladin can't use Warlock spell slots for smite, though I've met people who argue that Paladins can.

[Malifice]

Im ruling it as Paladin spell slots (limit being spell level castable) for MC Paladins in my campaign to cut down on MC full caster cheese.

Paladin 6/ Cleric 14 gets 9th level slots (CL 17). Max Paladin spells known are 2nd, so max divine smite is 2nd level slots.

Otherwise there is simply no reason to stick with Paladin.

I advise doing the same to try and cut down on Bard/ Paladin brokeness.

[HugeC]

I don't have my PHB yet (it arrives today!), but I'm wondering why it's so worrisome to use e.g. cleric spell slots to smite. As I understand it, you deal 1d8 damage per level of the spell slot you expend. Couldn't you do way more damage just casting a spell if you're a caster?

[Yuki Akuma]

I don't have my PHB yet (it arrives today!), but I'm wondering why it's so worrisome to use e.g. cleric spell slots to smite. As I understand it, you deal 1d8 damage per level of the spell slot you expend. Couldn't you do way more damage just casting a spell if you're a caster?

It's not worriesome at all!

Using Warlock spell slots might be however, since they reset after a short rest.