We Ain't No Stinkin' Cannon Fodder!

[Legoman]

Feedback Stone
This special ore, once inscribed with Aether dust and enchanted, is... perfectly harmless. However, once the stone is exposed to a large burst of uncontained magical energy, the latent energies within it resonate with the incoming energy, and thus, may possibly neutralize the incoming spell.

Due to it's resonating nature, it can be deployed over battlements, the sides of ships, or even troop formations. It's only problem, however, is it's prohibitive weight.

Whenever any space within 10' of the Feedback stone is affected by an area-of-effect spell that allows spell resistance, creatures within 10' of the lodestone are granted SR 5 against that particular attack. If another Feedback stone is within 10' of the first, then it's SR 5 is added to the
first stone's SR 5.

In this way, if 6 Feedback Stones are each placed in a line 10' apart, every unit within 10' of a Feedback Stone is granted SR 30 against area of effect spells that provoke SR. If a Magic Missile or Implosion is fired into the area, for instance, poor unfortunate souls that get in the way of those blasts are affected as normal. A Fireball, however, will most likely fizzle.

Feedback Stone: CL 5, Weight: 40 lbs, Cost: 5,000 GP. Spell Requisites: Anti-Magic Field. Create Wondrous Item.

Dread Obelisk:
This runed pillar of blackest obsidian is feared by all combatants... and rightly so. No matter how fierce the warrior or how great his skills, if he is slain near a Dread Obelisk, he is no more; he may very well only dine in hell thereafter. As the souls of the departed are drawn to this vile pillar,
it glows white from within, beckoning more to share with the dead in it's azazel heart.

Whenever a living being is slain within 100' of the Dread Obelisk, they are trapped within as if under the effect of a Soul Bind spell. The Dread Obelisk can hold 100 HD of such creatures, after which, it is simply full.

It does not discriminate between friend or foe - for this reason, only the most zealous followers, or unluckiest conscripts, serve in a unit that carries a Dread Obelisk into battle. Each hour, those who carry the Obelisk must make a will save, DC 1/2 the Hit Die currently trapped in the Obelisk, or become Shaken. An hour after becoming Shaken, they must attempt another will save, DC set by how many hit die are currently trapped in the stone, or become frightened, seeking to rid themselves of it's presence in the most expeditious route available.

If the Obelisk is smashed, (Toughness of Iron, CL 17) the souls of all those within are available for resurrection as normal, though they may not be the same after their stay in this terrible prison...

Dread Obelisk: Craft Wondrous Item, 50,000 gp, 200 Lbs. Soul Bind. CL 17.

[dead_but_dreaming]

These thingies are really cool... I would actually suggest changing the title of the thread though... It doesn't really convey what you are trying to sell here... :smalltongue:

[Legoman]

Hmm, unfortunately, I can't change the topic title... Which I thought you could do in VB. Such is life...

If I could... (Mods :D) it'd be something like "Wondrous Items for the battlefield."

[Emperor Tippy]

Feedback Stone
This special ore, once inscribed with Aether dust and enchanted, is... perfectly harmless. However, once the stone is exposed to a large burst of uncontained magical energy, the latent energies within it resonate with the incoming energy, and thus, may possibly neutralize the incoming spell.

Due to it's resonating nature, it can be deployed over battlements, the sides of ships, or even troop formations. It's only problem, however, is it's prohibitive weight.

Whenever any space within 10' of the Feedback stone is affected by an area-of-effect spell that allows spell resistance, creatures within 10' of the lodestone are granted SR 5 against that particular attack. If another Feedback stone is within 10' of the first, then it's SR 5 is added to the
first stone's SR 5.

In this way, if 6 Feedback Stones are each placed in a line 10' apart, every unit within 10' of a Feedback Stone is granted SR 30 against area of effect spells that provoke SR. If a Magic Missile or Implosion is fired into the area, for instance, poor unfortunate souls that get in the way of those blasts are affected as normal. A Fireball, however, will most likely fizzle.

Feedback Stone: CL 5, Weight: 40 lbs, Cost: 5,000 GP. Spell Requisites: Anti-Magic Field. Create Wondrous Item.
Broken. In so many ways. Nothing is stopping me from buying 10 of these and putting them all in a wagon that follows me around. All of the sudden the party has SR 50 for 50,000 GP.

Not to mention that you did the pricing wrong. To know the spell Anti-Magic Field you have to be a level 10 (minimum) character. Following the broken guidelines for creating a custom magic item, an item of continuous AMF costs you 100,000 GP. Well your item is less effective then the continuous AMF item but it doesn't stop you personally from casting spells at the enemy if they are out of range so we will reduce the price by 30% or so. Its still 70,000 GP each. And that doesn't account for the stacking affect. At the price you want you need at least an 80% price reduction from the broken guidelines price.

Now if instead of creating a spell effect you want an item that gives SR 5 to everyone within 10 feet. Well the minimum SR you can get on an time is SR 13 and that costs 10,000 GP. Lets halve that to get SR 5. So its 5,000 GP for an item of SR 5 on the wearer only. You want it to affect everyone within a 10 foot radius. That is at least a quadrupling in the price so your at 20K now and we haven't accounted for the stacking.


Now for the soul bind item it is a 9th level spell. And it requires a 1,000 GP per HD material component. So just for the material component for this item you are looking at a price tag of 100 thousand GP. And a 9th level spell, use activated item costs 306,000 GP (or well into epic items). Add those together and its a 406,000 GP item that you want.


Just because you want your level 1 commoner to be an effective solider doesn't mean that you should create items that are massively overpowered for there price. Consider, its cheaper to buy your obelisk if you want to soul bind a 51 HD creature then it is to provide the material component for the spell.

[Catch]

Great work. I just may have to steal borrow the Feedback Stones for a magical siege encounter...

And, of course, the Dread Obelisk is perfect for eliminating pesky PCs with access to Resurrection.

[Emperor Tippy]

No its not really. If you want to stop fireballs or the like from killing your mooks get a sorcerer with dispel magic and have him counter-spell all of the AoE spells.

And remember, when the PCs win they get the items.

[Legoman]

[/i]Broken. In so many ways. Nothing is stopping me from buying 10 of these and putting them all in a wagon that follows me around. All of the sudden the party has SR 50 for 50,000 GP

Yeah, do it. Chain-Shatter. Or, confined spaces. Or, big rock, break the stones...

I probably should increase the price a tad, but only a tad.


Soul Bind = More expensive.

Soul bind doesn't backfire when your opponent wins initiative and kills you, then takes the monolith that now contains your soul.

[Emperor Tippy]

Thats still not worth a 356,000 GP deduction. And it should be a bit more than a tad for the SR stones. They really should be at least 20,000 GP each and most likely around 50,000 GP or more.

[Roethke]

I seem to remember reading something like this proposed for how to make 'logical' fantasy combat seem more like medieval warfare and less like Harry Turtledove. Can't recall where, offhand. Seems pretty clever, if you ask me.

You'd definitely have to do something to keep it out of the PC's hands, though. Making it even heavier is a first step. Maybe making it not stack, or capping the stacking enough to make the cost of lowish-level casters prohibitive. Somewhere like SR 10-15, or maybe 20 at most. In that case, if 25%-50% of a caster's spells fail, he becomes a much less worthwhile battlefield asset (especially if the caster's 5t or 6th level, and only gets those couple of fireballs or slows). Depending on how your campaign is constructed (see that magic & frequency discussion over in gaming), the scarcity of high level casters should be enough to make them the rare, fearsome presences they should be. Hmm, that being the case, similar magic items like 'lesser globe of invulnerability' would do the trick as well.

This would have to be done carefully. If every Tom, **** and Harry bandit group had these things, then you could easily end up hosing your own low-mid level casters. Making it a strategic 'resource' so that castle battlements, and armies in the field (of rich kingdoms, at least) should do the trick.

The trouble with dispels, aside from readying the actions, is that you've got to be aware of other guy casting it, and some of those AoE spells have a long enough range for that to be hard as heck. If the enemy has a bunch of spellcasters, about 500-600 feet away lobbing fireballs from the midst of the troops, it'd be hard to pick them out to counterspell.


As for the Dread Obelisk, I really like the flavor. This one cuts both ways enough that it's kind of hard to use the standard crafting rules for it. Soul Bind talks about a 1000gp sapphire for each HD of the creature you want to bind, but the target is a single corpse.

This thing is really different in kind. You're mostly targeting 1st level warriors. Capping the effect to 1st-level, non-PC classes, (there could be some fluff about the souls being too strong) and the ability remains terrifying to most, but more in line with the cost.

[Emperor Tippy]

No. You want to bind 100 HD worth of creatures. Even if it is 100 1 HD creatures you still need to pay 1,000 GP each so it comes out to the same cost.

The price as originally listed should be at least tripled if not increased even further. Remember what happens when the PCs acquire such items. And they will steal it even if its nailed down.

[Roethke]

No. You want to bind 100 HD worth of creatures. Even if it is 100 1 HD creatures you still need to pay 1,000 GP each so it comes out to the same cost.

The price as originally listed should be at least tripled if not increased even further. Remember what happens when the PCs acquire such items. And they will steal it even if its nailed down.

What, exactly, would the PC's do with a 200 lb (maybe make it heavier) obelisk which is limited to soul-binding 1st level NPC-classes?

The worst I could see, is maybe rush in (200 lb obelisk in tow), slaughter an entire royal family and hold them hostage. Aside from the vileness of the act (probably not kosher for most campaigns), the only way to claim whatever ransom they want is to break their relatively expensive item.


What I do see, though, is great potential for plot hooks.

"The king calls the PCs into his audience chamber, ashen-faced. He speaks, softly, 'Prince Harold has fallen in battle against the Necromancer-King, and even my most mighty priests cannot call his soul back, they cannot even find it! We know our Enemy uses foul, soul-trapping magic, and fear Our prince is lost to a Dread Obelisk. Please, find it and free Our royal heir'"

Not to mention adding great flavor to evil armies.

The only other crunch limitation you may want to put on is some, relatively high, cap on the number of HD's the obelisk can contain, just on principle. Infinite things tend to lend themselves to particularly creative abuse (which can be fun, I like immovable rods and sovereign glue), but you may not want.

[Emperor Tippy]

Whenever a living being is slain within 100' of the Dread Obelisk, they are trapped within as if under the effect of a Soul Bind spell. The Dread Obelisk can hold 100 HD of such creatures, after which, it is simply full.
It can get creatures with more then 1 HD.

And the weight doesn't matter. Extra dimensional storage space makes weight not matter.

[Legoman]

It makes the weight not matter, and it makes the item non-functional.

Also, do you really think the PC's are going to carry around the obelisk? They're exposed to far more deadly effects and saves versus death than their enemies, why are they going to voluntarily make themselves un-ressurectable.

Then there's the problem of basically being perpetually shaken if you try to carry the damn thing.

Also, where do you get a 356,000 GP deduction? If you apply every magic item guideline in the book to it, maybe, sure. But it's not exactly a wand of soul bind - the fact that you are subject to it as much as your enemies makes it a major inhibitor, enough, I'd think, to cut the material cost of the thing in half.

[Emperor Tippy]

It makes the weight not matter, and it makes the item non-functional.
You don't need it functional for most of the time. Just for the death blow. "I ready an action to open the bag as the dragon is struck by the fighters axe."


Also, do you really think the PC's are going to carry around the obelisk?
Yes. The party taeks everything, even doors, that is worth a more than about 50 GP. And something like the obelisk woudl be kept, possibly in storage, but it would be kept.


They're exposed to far more deadly effects and saves versus death than their enemies, why are they going to voluntarily make themselves un-ressurectable.
Hey Bob, if I die when and the thing takes my soul you should break it.


Then there's the problem of basically being perpetually shaken if you try to carry the damn thing.
Thats what extra dimensional storage space is for.


Also, where do you get a 356,000 GP deduction?
Your listed price is 50,000 GP. The minimum rate for a use activated (which this has to be) CL17 item with a 9th level spell effect is 306,000 GP (17*9*2000). There is also the 100,000 GP material component. So the minimum cost of this thing (per the RAW guidelines) is 406,000 GP. 406,000 minus 50,000 (your price) is a difference of 356,000. That is where the deduction comes from.

Even if we count the shaken affect as a curse (which it really isn't') that is only a 10% reduction. Lets count its ability to capture friend as well as foe as a curse as well. Thats another 10% reduction. So the price is now 324,800 GP. Still more than 6 tiems as much as your listed price.


If you apply every magic item guideline in the book to it, maybe, sure.
No. I'm being generous with the item pricing. As an epic item it should get multiplied by 10 for the final price.


But it's not exactly a wand of soul bind
A wand of soul bind *can't* be made. The laws of magic don't allow it.


- the fact that you are subject to it as much as your enemies makes it a major inhibitor, enough, I'd think, to cut the material cost of the thing in half.

Fine. Lets cut the material component in half. Total cost is 356,000 GP instead of 406,000 GP. Now for the 20% deduction for curses (which is very generous). The price is 284,000 GP (still counts as epic by the way). So instead of 8 times your price it is down to a little over 5 and a half times your price.

And remember, that is with guidelines that are considered to be overpowered and broken.

[Roethke]

I don't think there's argument, that RAW, Tippy's pretty much on the ball.

The trouble is that this item doesn't fit well within RAW. It's not really meant to be used by PCs, and if your players are ripping the doors out of your dungeon for any use but firewood, you should probably be playing Hackmaster :)

Not to say you shouldn't be ready when they do, but that's when a little creative DMing goes a long way.

I assume it's priced, so as to be useful for evil armies to have a few of them.

A couple of workarounds to the bag of holding problem-- the easiest one being just destroy it if it enters an extra-dimensional space.

But it's not really that much of a problem. Knowing the exact round that you're going to drop an enemy can be tricky. A party member would have to waste a few full-round actions taking it out and stuffing it into the bag (and how you pull a 200lb obelisk out of the bag as even a full-round action would be amusing). Not to mention, you're risking the souls of party members being trapped, if they happen to get dropped on that round. If that happens (and the party survives), you have to break your expensive item, and release the critter you were going for.

It just doesn't seem that useful to PCs, as an actual soul-binder, just as a fearsome device. But I figure it would depend on the campaign.

[Emperor Tippy]

I don't think there's argument, that RAW, Tippy's pretty much on the ball.
Yah! Compliments.


The trouble is that this item doesn't fit well within RAW. It's not really meant to be used by PCs, and if your players are ripping the doors out of your dungeon for any use but firewood, you should probably be playing Hackmaster :)
Theres a reason that admantium doors don't exist any more. You will always underestimate what the PCs will take at higher levels. When you have an extra bag of holding to fill you start taking the furniture.


Not to say you shouldn't be ready when they do, but that's when a little creative DMing goes a long way.
Yep.


I assume it's priced, so as to be useful for evil armies to have a few of them.
Your the DM. You don't need to bother with price or anything else. Maybe its a minor artifact that only operates when within a mile of the person it was first linked to and to link to a new person the currently linked one has to willingly and when not under duress give up the link.


A couple of workarounds to the bag of holding problem-- the easiest one being just destroy it if it enters an extra-dimensional space.
Yep. That works.


But it's not really that much of a problem. Knowing the exact round that you're going to drop an enemy can be tricky.
Depends on the party and situation but I'll agree.


A party member would have to waste a few full-round actions taking it out and stuffing it into the bag (and how you pull a 200lb obelisk out of the bag as even a full-round action would be amusing).
Nope. You just have to open the bag of holding. It has LoE from inside an open bag (through the opening) to the surrounding area.

And how else will the fighter be useful at high levels anyways/ Its not like your decreasing killing efficiency or anything :smallbiggrin:


Not to mention, you're risking the souls of party members being trapped, if they happen to get dropped on that round. If that happens (and the party survives), you have to break your expensive item, and release the critter you were going for.
Yep. But its not that big a loss. And is pretty unlikely to occur.


It just doesn't seem that useful to PCs, as an actual soul-binder, just as a fearsome device. But I figure it would depend on the campaign.
Usability depends more on the ingenuity of the PC's than anything else.

I would never hand an item like that to my players. You amy be able to safley but mine would break it inside of a session.

[Illiterate Scribe]

Making it a minor artifact wouldn't be too unreasonable - then the whole price issue goes away.