ancentral relic as your only magic item

[kulosle]

So, im playing a forsaker, because i drew it out of a hat. My gm was nice enough to let me have an ancetral relic, and it not coubt as magic. So the question is, you only get one magic item. What do you get. I havent even decided the rest of my build yet (starting at level 20). Probably a ToB class. I could go with the unarmed swordsage, if i end up getting sonethibg besides a weapon for ny relic. Any ideas?

[bjoern]

So, im playing a forsaker, because i drew it out of a hat. My gm was nice enough to let me have an ancetral relic, and it not coubt as magic. So the question is, you only get one magic item. What do you get. I havent even decided the rest of my build yet (starting at level 20). Probably a ToB class. I could go with the unarmed swordsage, if i end up getting sonethibg besides a weapon for ny relic. Any ideas?

In my opinion the most useful item would bea masterwork elven craft longbow. It counts as a triple weapon , quarterstaff, and longbow. It can me modified using ancestral. Relic to have any properties of a magic melee weapon (staff), ranged weapon, rune staff, or magic staff.
I'd recommend runestaff and be a sorcerer as they benefit the most from the extra spells known. You can upgrade it as you level so its very handy.

[heavyfuel]

Something, anything, that allows for flight. I'm serious. If you can't fly by level 9 or so you're dead weight. I don't know if you can get this because the language of Ancestral Relic seem iffy when it tells you to choose an "item" because I don't think magical items need (or even can) be of MW quality. But if there's any way to get flight that's what I suggest.

Also, since you're screwed anyway, go for VoP Unarmed Swordsage for entry. It's a bit feat intensive (6 feats) but can be done.

[bjoern]

Something, anything, that allows for flight. I'm serious. If you can't fly by level 9 or so you're dead weight. I don't know if you can get this because the language of Ancestral Relic seem iffy when it tells you to choose an "item" because I don't think magical items need (or even can) be of MW quality. But if there's any way to get flight that's what I suggest.

Also, since you're screwed anyway, go for VoP Unarmed Swordsage for entry. It's a bit feat intensive (6 feats) but can be done.

All magic items are masterwork. That's why it is a requirement for ancestral relic.
If your a spell caster make it a rune staff andgive it fly 1/day. alter self is actually better.
Ancestral relic is good because you don't have to pick a remade item from the MIC you can give it whatever properties you want. At level 9 the gp limit on your relic is 18000. Let's break down the cost of the item I mentioned before.
75gp for longbow
300 for elven craft
Masterwork x 3 (triple weapon) 900
Shadow evocation 1/day 5000
Teleport 1/day 2500
Wall of stone 1/day 2500
Greater invisibility 1/day 1600
Solid fog 1/day 1600
Dimension anchor 1/day 1600
Fly 1/day 900
Wind wall 1/day 900

And a +1 competence skill bonus of your choice to top it off at just under 18k total.

Then when you decide to change it, just meditate and redo the whole thing . So long as the final product works as a quarterstaff, bow, runestaff, of magic staff. If you don't change the value of the item it takes no time to change it. So just swap around spells as you see fit. My DM ruled that doing this still required 8hrs of meditation but ask your DM How he sees it.


EDIT-+sorry just noticed that you said forsaker. That changes things. Forget the whole run staff thing. Just make it whatever weapon you want and add random features you want to it by comparing prices from existing magic items.

Example . Want it to grant fly 3/day? Find an item that does that and look at the price. Want it to give +2 dex also 4000gp more. Haste? And so on. The versatility of ancestral relic and its ability to have all of its properties changed as you see fit is very handy.

[Ellowryn]

Like 3.0 forsaker from masters of the wild? If so is the DM at least hand-waving the item destruction dependency of your class features?

[bjoern]

Actually, had another thought. Since your DM is is saying that your relic isn't a magic item. Take the item familiar feat and pick your relic as your familiar. Now its an intelligent item with mental stats and can act on its own activating its own abilities in combat essentially giving you more actions. Plus granting you bonus xp and skill check bonuses.

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

Why would Forsaker have even been in the hat in the first place?

Take one level of Forsaker, start using a magic item, and be unable to progress any further in the class. Have nineteen levels of whatever you want and one level of Fallen Forsaker. Say you didn't have any magic items prior to gaining the first level of it, so there was nothing for you to give away. Say you gained its Iron Will prerequisite via the Otyugh Hole in CS for 3,000 gp without spending a feat on it, so you only waste two feats qualifying for it. Starting at 20th level, I'd make the character a Human, Human Paragon 1/ Fallen Forsaker 1/ Cleric 1/ Human Paragon 2/ Paragnostic Apostle 2/ Stormlord 10/ Paragnostic Apostle 3. Get Gloves of Endless Javelins in MIC.

[bekeleven]

Relic Familiars are powerful, and have a few ambiguities. The first is if the item familiar special powers are part of the ancestral relic max GP cost. The second is whether you can shuffle your IF powers with relic. As a note, Item Familiar requires a minimum worth of 2000 GP, which an ancestral relic hits at level 4.

I have a suggestion: Armor.


Can take armor special abilities. There are tons, including ones that allow flight (for short durations, mostly). Item Familiar can also handle this flight, but consider...
Can be spiked and take weapon special abilities.
Can't be disarmed, stolen, or sundered. Restful is only 500GP and means you never have to take it off. Make it Commander every couple of days to clean it, if that's a concern.
Plenty of ways to get natural attacks/unarmed strikes looking good, assuming you don't want a spiked armor-based attack routine.


Base cost is your armor type of choice + 500 (MWK Armor, Spikes, MWK spikes), assuming you want weapon powers as well as armor powers.

[kulosle]

lol forsaker was in the hat with a bunch of other prestige classes that we all hate. had like 20 or so in there. forsaker is definitely the worst in my opinion. The DM is going out of his way to try and make it bearable for me. He even said I can switch the relics properties around at any point outside of combat. And he's allowing item familiar (and letting it be my relic) even though we normally don't. I agree that I need fly and teleport. Armor does sound like a really good idea. And yes we got rid of the breaking magic items rule, as long as i role play hating magic well.

as far as build goes i'm thinking Unarmed swordsage 5/forsaker 10/unarmed swordsage 5
i don't want to go VoP because some of the bonuses are supernatural and i need items to put into my relic.

also does anyone know of how to get any more non magical magic stuff?

[Gavinfoxx]

Second the 'take a level of forsaker and be a fallen forsaker' bit.

[bjoern]

Second the 'take a level of forsaker and be a fallen forsaker' bit.

I'm guessing that the draw a class out of a hat bit is just something to do for a change of pace. Going fallen forsaker kind of undermines the whole idea.

With your ancestral relic as an item familiar and a suit of armor, you could make it like iron man. Intelligence and all.

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

lol forsaker was in the hat with a bunch of other prestige classes that we all hate. had like 20 or so in there. forsaker is definitely the worst in my opinion. The DM is going out of his way to try and make it bearable for me. He even said I can switch the relics properties around at any point outside of combat. And he's allowing item familiar (and letting it be my relic) even though we normally don't. I agree that I need fly and teleport. Armor does sound like a really good idea. And yes we got rid of the breaking magic items rule, as long as i role play hating magic well.

as far as build goes i'm thinking Unarmed swordsage 5/forsaker 10/unarmed swordsage 5
i don't want to go VoP because some of the bonuses are supernatural and i need items to put into my relic.

also does anyone know of how to get any more non magical magic stuff?

Unarmed Arcane Swordsage 1/ Forsaker 10/ Unarmed Arcane Swordsage 9. An Arcane Swordsage can learn spells as maneuvers and initiate them as maneuvers, they're treated as supernatural abilities instead of spells for your character so it doesn't violate the prohibition on spellcasting. This can get you some choice buffs, utility/offensive effects (Ruby Ray of Reversal, Disintegrate), and pretty much everything else you need. If you want to go over the top, take the spell Heroics as one of your maneuvers, use it to temporarily gain Martial Study to gain a maneuver, gain a spell instead of that maneuver per Arcane Swordsage, then Adaptive Style to ready it and initiate it. This gives you immediate access to any Wizard spell in the game of a level you can initiate (8th) with no daily limit. If that won't fly, make your Ancestral Relic emulate a Crown of the White Raven and give you access to a maneuver/spell, which you can switch to a different maneuver/spell whenever you want. Use either of those to get access to long-duration buffs like Greater Magic Weapon, Greater Mighty Wallop, Greater Mage Armor, Heart of Air/Water/Earth/Fire, Superior Resistance, Energy Immunity, etc., and remember they're all used as supernatural abilities so they're not spells and cannot even be dispelled, though disjunction still works.

[kulosle]

Lol gm isnt nice enough to allow something that broken. And yes all 10 levels are requierd. Im determined to still be better than my friend who pulled samurai.

[Gildedragon]

for flight there is the flying property from OA

[bekeleven]

for flight there is the flying property from OA

Yeah, the OA property costs 16,200 and grants Fly 3/day for 5 minutes. There's a MoF +1 bonus that makes the weapon fly 30 on its own. This is a bit RAI, but spiked armor counts as a medium animated object and can carry 130 lbs before you give it strength boosts. So assuming you're a runty medium, you should be able to get it haul you 30 feet through the air on its action. As for armor abilities, I know none off the top of my head, but maybe you could pull the armor power off of Hawkfeather or Owlfeather Armor with a lenient DM.

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

Human, Unarmed Swordsage 1/ Warblade 1/ Crusader 1/ Fighter 1/ Unarmed Swordsage 1/ Warblade 1/ Pious Templar 1/ Master of Nine 2/ Forsaker 10/ Master of Nine 1

You'll need to take two flaws and visit the Otyugh Hole, but it's doable. Your ancestral relic should be a Ring of Evasion + Freedom of Movement + Continuous Undersong (SC), some means of flying, and max out Perform: Weapon Drill (CW). You'll need to get all four 1st level Stone Dragon and White Raven maneuvers from Warblade and Swordsage so at Crusader 1 you only have the two Devoted Spirit maneuvers available to learn. Use Master of Nine to add all the Diamond Mind save boots to Crusader. You'll know five Crusader maneuvers and with Extra Granted Maneuver you'll get all five granted and refreshed every round. That means every time you make a saving throw you can initiate the appropriate save boost, and with Undersong you can make a Perform: Weapon Drill check instead of a Concentration check for your saving throw. On top of that you'll have both Mettle and Evasion, so anything you successfully save against will have no effect on you, because you're so awesome with whatever weapon you use. You'll need Ancestral Relic and Item Familiar in addition to all those prerequisites and Extra Granted Maneuver, so only your 18th level feat will be open, so probably get Power Attack with that.

It's not exactly a strong build, but you get a high BAB and you're almost guaranteed to make your first (important) save every round with style, with room for a few utility maneuvers/stances, plus Emerald Razor. If you can get Vow of Poverty and take any feats for its bonus feats (per the text, I don't agree with this personally but it's almost necessary for this character) without your Ancestral Relic violating it, you'll be in a much better place with feats, plus you'll have some necessary generic magical bonuses.

[kulosle]

Ah yeah that actually sounds pretty good. I knew that my best chance was maneuvers. Any reason i can't put that stuff onto armor instead of a ring. Well i guess i wouldn't know how much evasion would cost.

I asked my GM about VoP and he said he's willing to let all the bonuses be extraordinary for me. But i wouldn't want to take it till after i have enough gold to make my weapon as good as i can. unless i can convince him to let me ad like a copper at a time, so that i never have a lot of money but can still get it to max gold value. I like how late in the build forsaker is, means i might be able to read a book to get a +5 before going into it (need to double check that to make sure)

thanks

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

Ah yeah that actually sounds pretty good. I knew that my best chance was maneuvers. Any reason i can't put that stuff onto armor instead of a ring. Well i guess i wouldn't know how much evasion would cost.

I asked my GM about VoP and he said he's willing to let all the bonuses be extraordinary for me. But i wouldn't want to take it till after i have enough gold to make my weapon as good as i can. unless i can convince him to let me ad like a copper at a time, so that i never have a lot of money but can still get it to max gold value. I like how late in the build forsaker is, means i might be able to read a book to get a +5 before going into it (need to double check that to make sure)

thanks

If you can use VoP with the Ancestral Relic, then you can still sacrifice anything your party wouldn't be able to loot. Dungeon has a big statue that won't fit through the door and the room must have been built around it? Sacrifice it to add its value to your relic! Just beat the BBEG and cleared out his castle, which is probably going to be used as a set of power by the next evil warlord? Sacrifice the whole castle to add its value to your relic! You're required to destroy magic items for your Forsaker class anyway, and if in your character's mind magic = bad/evil, then you can destroy those items by sacrificing them into your relic without violating your vows!

[ranagrande]

Forsaker isn't really required to destroy magic items. If you don't, you lose your damage reduction, but that's all.

I'd recommend being a raptoran or dragonborn or something for flight.

[kulosle]

Wait really that works? Lol, i never thought about sacrificing a castle into my relic, wow. Double check with my gm of course.

[Segev]

Consider that you can possibly get by with a flying mount. This would bypass the Forsaker's taboo against magic items entirely. They can be had for cash if you don't want to buy a cohort or class feature to get one.