Magus: Running Defender?

[Dragvandil]

Straight and simple. My party is in need of both a tank and an Int guy... because we have 3 strikers and one Heal-Paladin, GM loves my Magus backstory (That I cooked up before I knew we were going to have 2 rouges and a sorcerer)so he wants me to run it but make it as Tanky as possible. So read through and see how well you think I have done. And I know that this is going to be suboptimal compared to a Barbarian or Fighter but it has to be the best with what we got.

Archetypes: Bladebound Hexcrafter (Bladebound because it makes the Magus more fightery and hexcrafter for fly and Heals.)

Level 1:
Str: 18, Dex: 14, Con: 12, Int: 15, Wis:10, Cha: 7 (20 point buy)

Feats: Toughness, Dodge (Human bonus feat)
Weapon: Long sword (bastard Sword at level 3. This is another "What we got" call because the GM has said that Katana's are illegal in his games (he hates them) and the other high crit weapons with a D10 are to far out to be allowed at level 3.)

Chain Shirt (cause herpy dex.)
HP:13 Fort:+3. Dex+2 Will+2

Spells prepared: Obscruing Mist, Shield.

[StreamOfTheSky]

I'm currently playing a Bladebound Hexcrafter myself. I went with Tiefling, making a few trades, including Scaled Skin for +1 Natural Armor. That and the Dex is +2 AC. I went with the Dervish Dance feat route and a scimitar....it's been done a lo, but that's cause it works. Then you are a bit less multiple ability dependent and can start with dex and int both 18 (after the racial +2's). You have to wait till level 3 for Dervish Dance, so not having negative str is a good idea. Your 1st level feat would be weapon finesse.

If you want to save two feats and have dex to attack and damage right away, start out as a Dawnflower Dervish Bard (Dervish of Dawn on d20pfsrd) for one level, then go into Magus. This will hurt your casting, hexes, and BAB (though the DD Bard's self-only +2 inspire courage will mitigate that a bit) and in general you'll regret it more the higher level you go, but it's nice at low levels.

Don't forget you can use a Buckler; the 5% spell failure is worth it early on, and mithral is only 1000 gp, so you can erase that easily. Sadly, Dervish Dance says "no shields", but if your DM is asking you to tank, maybe he'll get rid of that provision, it seems unnecessary to me.

Now with all that said, even with all that optimization....I've found Magus is a horrible tank. At low levels, Concentration is really hard, and the Magus ideally wants to cast every turn (even infinite use Brand for 1 damage is better than nothing, and still triggers a bonus attack at level 2 using spell combat + spellstrike). Having enemies constantly on top of you makes things really difficult. Magus seems to work better almost as a 2ndary melee person in the party. Hide behind the real tank, let him take the initial shock of enemies rushing in, then do your cast-attack combo by 5 ft stepping in (casting before the 5 ft step). 3E's Duskblade is a much better tank; it doesn't need to make a check at all to arcane channel in melee. Magus gets better skills and class features and can do a lot more than just dish out damage, but Duskblade is way better at tanking, I've found.

If your DM allows pre-errata Crane Wing (the version where it outright blocked the 1st melee hit each turn), that might be a good reason to stay str-based (saves you two feats) and even dip Master of Many Styles Monk to get Crane Wing easier. It's a 4 feat investment, the Monk level gives you two of them. Unarmed Fighter 1 dip would also give you two of the 4 feats. Don't do both....pick what you value more. BAB or saves. Negating one successful attack per turn immensely helps you with tanking.

EDIT: The rogues are going to hate your obscuring mists, you know? Also, it's a spell that never improves w/ CL, so it's best on a wand/scroll. Also, the sorcerers could use it. I'd suggest Color Spray instead. Yes, the sorcs also can cast that, but it requires being uncomfortably close for them. And it's real easy to tank when you leave 2-4 enemies unconscious for half a dozen rounds. Daze is also a rock solid cantrip at low levels before becoming useless.

[deuxhero]

Conjuration Wizard would be my pick for an int based "tank" (unless the GM allows Path of War and Warder) honestly.

[StreamOfTheSky]

Conjuration Wizard would be my pick for an int based "tank" (unless the GM allows Path of War and Warder) honestly.

Very true, especially Teleport subschool conjuror. Synthesist Summoner is probably the best tank of all, if we're suggesting other classes.

[Snowbluff]

Very true, especially Teleport subschool conjuror. Synthesist Summoner is probably the best tank of all, if we're suggesting other classes.

Dex based Vivisectionist, too. My little brother is using one right now. He's got like 30 AC at level 7.

[StreamOfTheSky]

Dex based Vivisectionist, too. My little brother is using one right now. He's got like 30 AC at level 7.

I did that build, too! With a goblin! And it was awesome....once I could get an Agile Amulet of Mighty Fists. Goblin gives +3 AC (+4 Dex for +2 bonus; +1 size) and more importantly...access to the Roll With It feat, which ruins an enemy's attack *and* screws them out of iteratives. Granted, as a sneak attacker you'll often want to full attack yourself, but Beastmorph gives pounce at level 10 and before that there's ring of ferocious action for 3000 gp. Also took Tentacle discovery just to use a darkwood (no acp = no pain for non-proficiency) heavy shield and still have all my claw attacks. Some may say boosting AC is a waste of a discovery, but... I think +2 to +7 AC is worth it.

[Snowbluff]

Damn, he has an agile amulet, but I didn't think to use goblin. That's crazy. He's a drow for the longer mutagen duration. :smalltongue:

[Dragvandil]

Oh hey! There I was thinking this was going to be a dead thread.


Steam: I friggen love Tieflings for Magi. IMO they are the second best racial for Dervish Magi. I am locked into human though because of various restraints. (RP heavy campaign. Not to the point of absurdity, where the GM is constantly making you justify things, but anything "Out of the normal" needs justification. Tiefling would be one of those things, and he's put a strict "Let's not. Pick something more common") Human is imo just plain the best choice, though not strictly superior. And the reason is simple, dual talent. Bonus feat and skill point in favor off another floating +2.... letting you beef what you like and not having to get gimped in a stat... is golden from a build standpoint. If I need the floating +2 I have it and if I don't then I have a feat and skill.

I've considered doing that, dumping the +2 into int for a 16 and using the spare point to bump Con. Buuuut I'd HAVE to go Dervish at that point for the stats to make any sort of sense. Still, I could ditch toughness thanks to bosting Con. And I'd have an effective 18AC with 11HP at level 1. i'd have a 1d6+2damage though which would make me a 5.5 damage and the lowest in the party (Though smacking twice is nice at level 2) Obviously at 3 I'd pick right back up..... but my tanking needs to be for the lower levels while the Palladin gets his **** together, and while one of the rogues hopefully dies off. :D (Seriously 2 rouges.... never a good idea.)

After about level 3 I should be able to slide back into a more Magus friendly roll of secondary Melee. Stepping and spell combating into slapping the **** out of folks.

As for the Dawn option, the GM does want to go into Epic. I'll remember the Buckler, we are going through goblins so a better AC will serve me better then the +2 damage early on. I'll defenitely take the Color Spray and Daze. By the time Color spray becmes useless I should be in a better spot for using more typical magi tricks.

Edited for accuracy

[deuxhero]

Oh, a trick that works for both Alchemists and Magi trying to tank: The improved familiar with regeneration+shield other combo can be done by either. Flat out half damage for 2 feats (extra discovery/arcana and Improved Familiar) and a wand charge? Yes please! Requires LN or LE

[Dragvandil]

So this is about to get homebrew.


My GM is letting me trade out Blackblade strike and alertness for a Full Batb while using it, letting me take legit advantage of power attack.

Since IM not fofcusing on crit fishing we think this will bring it all up to speed and keep me tankey into later levels. |



Any thoughts?