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Variable Arcana
2007-03-06, 09:12 AM
Fifth level LG dwarven warpriest. Full Plate, Heavy Shield, Battleaxe...
Domains: Strength, War.
S:18, C:16, W:14 (D:10)

What two feats make sense for a front-line warpriest??
(Core only: PHB and DMG -- not even PHBII, much less Comp.Div.)

Right now, I've got Power Attack and Improved Initiative jotted down.

(Is there a better combination of domains?)

Rigeld2
2007-03-06, 09:14 AM
(Is there a better combination of domains?)
What god do you follow? Or do you just want two good domains?

daggaz
2007-03-06, 09:56 AM
War is nice if you are starting at real low levels, (and for fluff, I LOVE WAR FLUFF), or if you are gonna be at real high levels and specifically want those power word x spells. Otherwise its not the best domain.

I can see that you are a follower of Silverbeard. You might try to convince your DM to allow dwarven waraxe as favored weapon, so you can pick up the +1 on a better weapon which you can twohand. Most people are of the opinion that SIlverbeard using the battleaxe is simply a carryover from the old days, and its usually not a hard sell.

Otherwise, as a dwarf, you are better off using a dwarven waraxe two-handed anyhow and ditching the shield (remember you have racial proficiency in it), tho at lvl 1-3, when your hps suck, that extra +1 to hit from the battleaxe and the shield AC can be worth it, provided you keep war domain.

Thiel
2007-03-06, 10:01 AM
Combat Expertise and Power Attack at lvl 1 and 3. Improved Trip at lvl 6.
You want to have a high AC since you are going to get hit a lot and a little battlefield control never hurts.
Now you just need to find a deity with the war domain and the battleaxe as favoured weapon (Or flail if it was me.) to get Martial Weapon Proficiency (Said weapon) and Weapon Focus (Said Weapon)

Rigeld2
2007-03-06, 10:06 AM
War is useless, especially to a dwarf. Weapon Focus is not that great of a feat, and as a dwarf hes already proficient with the Dwarven Waraxe. Pick up Trickery or Luck.

I dislike Strength as well, but that may be just me.

daggaz
2007-03-06, 10:26 AM
Strength is a great domain for melee clerics. Enlarge person (definitely you want to be wielding something that does at least 1d10 initially), bulls strength, STONESKIN and extra righteous might, plus a lvl based strength bonus to hit once a day(not as good as the luck reroll thing, but still nice. Not as versatile, but it ups your chance AND your damage).

Yeah. There are reasons a lot of people love strength for a fighting cleric. Especially when you are core and dont have access to divine-ubercheese.

Rigeld2
2007-03-06, 10:31 AM
Strength is a great domain for melee clerics. Enlarge person (definitely you want to be wielding something that does at least 1d10 initially), bulls strength, STONESKIN and extra righteous might, plus a lvl based strength bonus to hit once a day(not as good as the luck reroll thing, but still nice. Not as versatile, but it ups your chance AND your damage).
Righteous Might (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/righteousMight.htm) is better than Enlarge Person (yes, its higher level, but its far worth it and not E.P. isnt worth the domain). Bull's Strength is already on the Cleric list.

The main advantage of Domains is granting things you couldnt already do. Travel, Trickery, Magic, Luck all do that. Strength barely does.

daggaz
2007-03-06, 10:54 AM
I have a level 3 deep dwarf cleric (almost level 4) who is fighting to survive in the harsh world of the underdark, in a drow city none-the-less. I use strength abilities constantly and they definitely not only keep me alive, they give me the edge to win decidedly hard battles. I took down a much higher lvl captain of the guard character singlehandedly, thanks in no small part due to the massive melee buff-up I got from strength domain.

I would say the main advantage of a domain is further beefing up your characters main purpose. Secondary comes the ability to do other things not normally allowed to you (which in most likelyhood you could get thru another party member).

Sure, I could take trickery and get to play like I am a rogue.. but I am looking for something that gives synergy to melee combat, not something to let me do somebody elses job, and strength is by far the best domain for that. Especially if you arent starting at level 7, but level 3 or even 1. Synergy, baby... Yeah!

And btw, access to stoneskin is a friggin GREAT thing for both melee synergy, and getting a spell you dont normally have. That spell alone would be enough to make me seriously consider the domain. Especially if you are starting at midlevels anyways.

Travel is a sweet domain as well tho. Fly rules. So do all the other spells, and freedom of movement 1/day will save your ass.

Matthew
2007-03-06, 03:50 PM
Yeah, I like Power Attack and Combat Expertise as basic Combat Feats... but you will need an Intelligence of 13.

Ikkitosen
2007-03-06, 03:59 PM
War is useless, especially to a dwarf. Weapon Focus is not that great of a feat, and as a dwarf hes already proficient with the Dwarven Waraxe.

Shenanigans! Clerics aren't proficient with martial weapons, so the dwarven waraxe proficiency doesn't help if you don't have the war domain.

If you're going to weild it 2h anyway you don't need the proficiency.

War and Earth would be my choices (for flavour). Get a waraxe and shield at low levels, 2h waraxe later. Get Power Attack. Get Combat Expertise.

daggaz
2007-03-06, 07:29 PM
War is also great if you can get a deity with a tripping weapon. You can be doing improved tripping by level 3... tho taking power attack might be nice first, putting you at level 6, where a lot of campaigns start near to anyways.

Variable Arcana
2007-03-06, 08:25 PM
Not sure about Improved Trip -- as axes aren't tripping weapons.

Combat Expertise is nice -- but to get Int up to 13 I'd have to either lose a point of con bonus or of strength bonus. (Giving up points of wisdom would be even worse, and giving up points in dex and charisma to cover it wouldn't be much better...)

Travel domain sounds quite useful -- longstrider's nice for a dwarf, and fly is nice for anyone, as are all the teleports. And the bonus power is quite nice as well.

(The biggest problem with the Strength/War combo is that I'm wasting my 3rd level domain slot on "Magic Vestment"...)

Earth is definitely nice for flavor for a dwarven cleric -- and has some interesting spells.

Matthew
2007-03-06, 08:52 PM
Well, giving up two points of Constitution when you have 16 is no big deal, we're only talking +5 Hit Points at this stage and you can get them via Magic Stuff anyway. I wouldn't be too fussed and you're probably getting extra Skill Points and boosts out of the deal?

Darrin
2007-03-06, 11:47 PM
Not sure about Improved Trip -- as axes aren't tripping weapons.

Improved Trip + Knockdown should work well. The axe doesn't need to be a tripping weapon, and your dwarven stability helps keep you on your feet if you fail the trip attempt.



(The biggest problem with the Strength/War combo is that I'm wasting my 3rd level domain slot on "Magic Vestment"...)


Pick up the Customize Domain feat and you can fix that.

Strength/War is one of the better dwarven combos, mostly because of Enlarge Person. Unfortunately, I don't think there are any dwarven deities with spiked chain as their preferred weapon.

Clangeddin Silverbeard and Moradin are the two most common Strength/War deities, which gives you Battleaxe or Warhammer... good for Weapon+Board, I guess, or you could go Oversize TWF (generally not optimal for dwarves, since they tend to dump Dex).

Gendwar Argrim I think is the only deity with Dwarven Waraxe, but his other domains are Destruction and Law. Still, smiting can be nice.

paigeoliver
2007-03-07, 05:59 AM
If you are using the core D&D deities (the Greyhawk ones), then you will probably want to download the Living Greyhawk Deities document. It is a lot more complete on that pantheon than any of the hardcovers seem to be. Plus it gives some of them a few more domain choices (as it considers more books).

Just checking through that, Gendwar Argrim is the only dwarven god that favors the waraxe, but he isn't the only one with the war domain. You also have Clangeddin Silverbeard and Moradin.

Roderick_BR
2007-03-07, 06:36 AM
Just a piece of advice: Warpriest is a PrC better suited for paladins than clerics, because most of the powers he gains are spell-like abilities, that a full cleric can cast a lot more times per day.

Ikkitosen
2007-03-07, 08:01 AM
What's all this about non-tripping axes? It's irrelevant - having a tripping weapon is nice, but Imp Trip makes the unarmed attack to trip someone not provoke an AoO, so it matters not a jot that "axes can't trip", you're just kicking their legs out from under them.

Extend spell is good (and not just for Divine Metamagic) - you could get that instead of Combat Expertise.

Travel is indeed an excellent domain, but is a dwarf god gonna grant it? Celerity's good too, presumably granted by the dwarven god of running fast :P

Variable Arcana
2007-03-07, 08:49 AM
What's all this about non-tripping axes? It's irrelevant - having a tripping weapon is nice, but Imp Trip makes the unarmed attack to trip someone not provoke an AoO, so it matters not a jot that "axes can't trip", you're just kicking their legs out from under them.

Is that how it works? I'd been thinking he needed to drop/sheath his weapon to trip. Does that mean he can make a trip attempt, and if it works, he can make the AoO with his axe??

Sigh. There go those five hit points... *and* one of three turning attempts...

Person_Man
2007-03-07, 09:52 AM
Just PHB and DMG? Not even full SRD? That limits things pretty severely, but at least you're a cleric.

OK then, you should pick up Power Attack around 8th level, and combine it with Divine Power.

Extend Spell is always good for Clerics. You are going to cast plenty of buff and Summon spells, if they run out, you lose.

If your goal is to be a Tank and let other PC's do the heavy killing, I'm a fan of the Tower Shield. Of course my DMs tend to use a lot of ranged enemies, making the option of hiding behind the tower shield while I cast Summon spells very appealing. If yours does not, then I wouldn't bother with it.

Leadership is the best core feat out there for 6th level if your DM allows it, especially since Clerics tend to have high Cha.

My favorite Core domains are Healing, Travel, and Trickery. Healing gives you +1 Caster level to Healing spells, and lets face it, you're going to be casting a lot of them. Travel has an excellent special ability plus Longstrider, Fly, Dimension Door, and Teleport. Trickery adds three useful class Skills plus Disguise Self, Invisibility, Mislead, Polymorph Any Object, and the uber Timestop.

daggaz
2007-03-07, 10:18 AM
Ive been wondering about extend spell actually... seems most of the buff spells are 1 min/level... By level 3 that is already up to 30 rounds, usually more than enough to finish a battle. And if there is some kind of interruption in the fighting, its usually more than a few minutes anyways, so having a double length doesnt do much there either. Its starting to seem to me like a bit of a waste (feat wise and spellslot wise) to bother with it, Ive been doing great without. Quicken on the otherhand (at 9th) I can definitely see being useful.


I suppose maybe at much higher levels extend is more useful.. thoughts?

As for tripping, my eberron cleric has prof. Halberd thru the wardomain, and trips with that one. Nice damage on it too.

Ikkitosen
2007-03-07, 10:21 AM
Extend makes 10 min/level spells much more useful. Likewise summons - 1 round/level isn't much!

Of course a metamagic rod might be more useful for use on the fly.

Person_Man
2007-03-07, 10:47 AM
Ive been wondering about extend spell actually... seems most of the buff spells are 1 min/level... By level 3 that is already up to 30 rounds, usually more than enough to finish a battle. And if there is some kind of interruption in the fighting, its usually more than a few minutes anyways, so having a double length doesnt do much there either. Its starting to seem to me like a bit of a waste (feat wise and spellslot wise) to bother with it, Ive been doing great without. Quicken on the otherhand (at 9th) I can definitely see being useful.

Summon spells, Divine Power, Divine Might, and Mislead are all only 1 round per level. There are a lot more in the expansion books, including some useful Swift action spells with a duration of exactly 1 round. It's also a pre-req for Persistent spell from Complete Divine, if your DM lets you use it.
A standard tactic is to have your Rogue/Scout/Ranger sneak ahead, locate the enemy, and then come back. You cast Extended spells before combat, and then quickly try to ambush your enemy (often with the help of the Silence spell). At low levels, its almost impossible to do this without Extend spell. At mid levels, you get much more time to maneuver and prepare for the ambush. At high levels, its really not important to have Extend spell unless you also use Persistent spell, but its occasionally useful (with Earthquake or Time Stop+Divine Metamagic, for example).


As for tripping, my eberron cleric has prof. Halberd thru the wardomain, and trips with that one. Nice damage on it too.

Wait, Eberron? I though this cleric build was PHB and DMG only?

Ikkitosen
2007-03-07, 10:48 AM
Wait, Eberron? I though this cleric build was PHB and DMG only?

That's not the OP commenting, just another poster/boaster ;)